I am afaid I can't make it to Jan. 6th in my belief. I am trying folks,

but all this stuff about the Senators is bringing me dowm.If even Kennedy and Sanders(Rep) won't contest I am near to giving up. I had lowered my expectations from an overturn to merely a Senator making a protest. But if that is not possible, I might have to rethink staying here. What would there be to fight for? I was going to fight to bring change within the Party, but what if there IS NO Party, as this is suggesting? Maybe I am just freaking out because I am about to have the worst New Years Eve of my life. after one of the worst Holiday's, but I can't stand anymore disappointment. Can someone offer a more positive perspective please? Maybe it is just me.

and let others take up the slack for a while, that's what teamwork is really all about.

you'll be back up in the running soon enough, and more likely stronger for it.

good luck. :)

calm down!!!! anyone who plans on standing up isn't going to come out and say so before Jan. 6th. the point of us being there on the 6th is to put 'pressure' on them to do it!!!!

see this thread http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x216482

and don't lose hope!!!! Happy New Year - here's to better times :toast:

by all the nay saying Senators. I am trying to believe that they are just hiding their hands. I am . Sigh. I just need a glimpse of something positive!

us being in D.C. on the 6th is to show our support and to show that we will not let this go unnoticed. whether the Senators join the contest or not, we need to show the Bush admin. and the rest of the world that we have NOT been fooled by this stolen election.

Thanks for posting this. I needed the support too!

If not for John Kerry, then for democracy itself. If they ignore election reform again, then they are no better than the Republicans!

I will not give them the satisfaction.

It does not matter what happens on Jan 6th, I will fight on.

It does not matter what happens on Jan 20th, I will fight on.

As long as our kids are dying in Iraq over a lie, and Americans are being stripped of their civil rights I will fight on.

If not me, who?

If not now, when?

They may take away my country just a soon as they pry the Constitution from my cold dead fingers. Until then, I fight on.

"It does not matter what happens on Jan 6th, I will fight on.

It does not matter what happens on Jan 20th, I will fight on.

As long as our kids are dying in Iraq over a lie, and Americans are being stripped of their civil rights I will fight on.

If not me, who?

If not now, when?

They may take away my country just a soon as they pry the Constitution from my cold dead fingers. Until then, I fight on."

as they said in WWII -
damn the torpedos, full speed ahead!

:yourock:

So far they have nothing except conjecture. Investigations into the voting should continue but you can hardly expect them to be anxious to look like they should be fitted with Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanies.

Why can't they stand for aa accurate vote? Who are they afraid of, the Repukes?

Imagine if they did over turn it.


It's a big mind boggling to consider, Kerry would be dodging bullets for the next 4 years. *shudder*

Remember JFK all of those allegations of mod related activities.

and the "debate" is limited to 10 min per Senator/Representative I believe, hardly enough time to cover very much. Let's say 2 Senators object - they speak for 10 min each and the others just keep quiet.

What would that accomplish besides making the 2 who object look like oddballs?

The problem as I see it is that the other Dems who are not willing to object could be forced to vote to seat the Repub electors in Ohio, thereby adding legitimacy to the election from the Democrats themselves. Bad, bad, bad strategy.

Better to keep investigating and if we can turn up fraud impeach the bastard.

Furthermore, SINCE the Election there have been multiple acts of criminal behavior by election officials in Ohio.

No, it is not. You have to prove that the long lines were arranged purposely.

right there.

Furthermore, having Senators sign on isn't about proving fraud.

It's to say we need an investigation.

There is abundant rock solid evidence that warrants further investigation before the Ohio electors are accepted.

I'm sounding like a skipping record at this point. Forgive me those who have had to witness it.

The preservation of democracy in this country should be every person's concern. Given OH, FL, NM, etc. There is enough mounting evidence to demand reform happen. Hava was a joke meant to shut up the critics.

What will happen Jan 6th does not change the fact that privatized voting companies in the country need to be removed from the democratic process for reasons of illegitimacy. To restore faith in the intention of the American voter, Diebold, Es&S, Triad, Hart etc. Need to be removed from the equation.

Election reform on a national level. Pumping out a piece of paper in a DRE isn't going to convince me my vote isn't hijacked somewhere from within the hard drive. Or a print out won't assure me that the manipulation isn't being printed.

Remove them, you remove the fraud.

I wouldn't fret everything that happened in this past election and 2000 will come full circle. Ball park figure of a year, I would guess. Karma is a bitch, and you can't avoid her for long. Have faith in that, time is on your side, even if the Sitting President doesn't change on Jan 6th. The awakening to the facts of fraudulent elections being held in this country is coming.

What you are fighting for is the voice of democracy, that should never be silenced, not by doubt, not by fear, nor by bully tactics.

I mean, just "letting it go" and "letting it happen" without saying a word doesn't accomplish anything either, does it? What HARM is there in trying? Versus what harm is there in NOT?

If you make allegations with no proof no one will ever listen to you again. "Falsus in uno, falsus in omnia."

Good golly, nobody ever said this was going to be easy!

a. We hope that something will happen before 1/6. Maybe, maybe not. b. We hope that something will happen ON 1/6. Again - maybe/maybe not.

c. The NEXT step is to keep working and fighting this corruption, AS LONG AS IT TAKES to expose the fraud. Impeachment? Maybe/maybe not.

We aren't even through with step a. yet!

May I suggest a cup of tea, or a little nap? Then be sure to stay here on DU tonight. We will keep you from plunging into the pits of despair.

The "battle" is not over and the investigation will continue regardless of the January 6th deadline. I don't think we should think of that day as the "end all."

The beat goes on ... regardless.

:hug:

Until then it really does no one any good speculating. Given that, If not one Senator comes forward that day we reserve the right to contact these cowards endlessly. We also would have an obligation to remove these same people and retake control of our party. I wont sit back and watch the so called leaders of our party turn a blind eye to what it easily the biggest threat against our democracy.

much to my surprise, looks like a loaf of bread. This has given me a tremendous boost!!!

Tomorrow, I will attempt making cookies with the food processor.

I'll take victories anywhere I can get them at this point..

I think that we now know that we can not count on the entrenched dem leadership and business as usual to bring about the needed correction in this country. We are going to have to clean house within the dem party and get some people in there who will represent the citizens of this country, instead of their own self-interest.

and we should focus on changing HAVA to ensure auditable elections so '06 will be a fair election.

First of all, the challenge is so they can debate the fraud/proof issue. You don't have to have a open/shut case before you even challenge.

But more importantly, no one needs "proof" beyond videotaped reality that thousands of folks in democratic areas were simply unable to vote because there were not enough voting machines.

Even leaving out Blackwell's obvious maneuvering to have provisionals not count if they're not in the right precinct and then the phony calls telling people their precincts changed. Forget about the 80 lb paper and all that bullshit.

It was literally impossible for even 50% of the registered voters in these areas to actually have voted.

We saw the testimony of the college student at Conyers' hearing - two machines for over 1000 students (repuke areas had 1/100) and kids waiting in line 11 hours to vote. The election was called while they were still in line.

THIS is the story. No tin foil hat required. It's documented and recorded fact. These areas had downwards of 7% turnout.

Given that 11 votes per precinct amount to bush's "lead" - how can we ignore these thousands of potential voters who were turned away ?

It doesn't take a conspiracy theory - just eyeballs.

Every time we mention "fraud" and "voting machines" and "statistics" and the like, people's eyes roll back in their heads. They can't admit the possibility that something this huge could happen. WE know it did. But we can't prove it, not without counting the ballots - which Blackwell and the courts and a lot of apathy is making difficult if not impossible.

But aside from that is the blatant voting and civil rights violations that occurred all over the state. MORE votes were lost there than anywhere else.

And it is silence on this point from the Senators and other Congressmen that I can't stomach.

We have already lost our fledgling partial Democracy.

We are now pressing to have a real American Democracy.

This movement may not succeed by the time we die, but it certainly will not ever succeed if we quit pressing for it.

In our life-time many more will arrive at where we have already been, once they realize that slavery is not freedom, that liberty is not a tower in the sky or a statue, that prosperity is not finding a spare inch to sleep in on the floor in the room that our family lives in, that education is not learning the rules of ones servitude, that good health is not what one gets from witch doctors sanctioned by politicians, that mental illness hasn't really affected almost all slaves in the New World, that .... You get the point, don't you?

In time, we will have plenty of company.

come through and are just avoiding the inevitable pressure if it's announced ahead of time.

Saracat,

I know exactly how you feel.

The news today about the Senators is upsetting. It really is.

However, I booked my flight, despite the fact that we don't have a Senator. Many have said it's not about John Kerry. Thats true. It's also not about these Senators either.

It's about "We The People."

It's about standing up for what we believe in. It's about fighting back and being PRESENT.

I'm flying in from Iowa. My husband and I went 'round and 'round about this and why I'm flying across the country. When it comes down to it, I needed to stand in our nation's capital and use my presence to let Bush know a few things:

---I know what you've done (I'm not stupid)
---What you did was not ok
---I'm not afraid to be PRESENT in protest of you

Sara, I've been really depressed and in shock since the election. We're all riding in the same roller coaster. However, you can work your way out of despair through action. What better way to work through tough stuff, than to surround yourself with those who truly understand. Think of 1/6 as a big 12-step EA (elections anonymous) support group. We're all recovering from the Bush evil!

Show up on 1/6, Saracat. Make it a personal pilgrimage tailored to your needs; not a trip that you make expecting a specific result from an unknown Senator.

Maybe there are some symbolic things you could do on 1/6. Write Bush a letter--tape it to the sidewalk outside the White House. Tape a "Please don't feed the President" sign to the monkey cage at the Washington Zoo. Maybe there are some other things you could do, on 1/6 that would help you feel part of the solution and not a victim of this Administration.

Do you have a sign figured out? Make something personal and stand strong with it.

I know that before I gather with others--I'm going to look at the Constitution. It's important to me that I remember my significance.

I'm "We The People" dammit. Lying, corrupt thugs should know not to fuck with "We The People." But they have, so I am traveling to where they are to be PRESENT. That's what it's about for me.

Make the day about YOU--and what you need to help you through this time.

But, alas, not possible ($$) all the way from WA. St.

We'll be thinking of you here, glued to CSPAN and DU.

Sara - Hang in there. You're not going nuts. This country is going nuts. We owe it to the future to do what we can.

:hug:

Email Buddy, buddyjeff@pocketinet.com. Tell him you live in WA and want to do something about this election mess. Tell him I sent you. You can make a difference. You just need some people to team with - we all do. Make a sign and show up - it doesn't matter where - actually better to show up for your neighbors, friends, family in your home town. Go to your city or town hall on January 6th at noon. Go to www.5capitalmarch.com, download "Save Our Votes_JAN6_Flyer from the home page, make copies and post them around town leading up to the 6th (get your friends to help), make a sign and show up (you'll likely make a bigger difference than all of us in Washiington DC).

It may be a long hard struggle, but at least we've begun to fight back- that's huge in and of itself. Americans will respond as they learn about and from the underground. We still ARE the real majority in this country.

that we are depressed and disappointed about this. It has DEFINITELY not been okay to state that we wish Kerry had done more or been more vocal.

It's time we are more tolerant of people who are feeling bad. It's a shitty time of year for a lot of people anyway.

Telling people to "buck up" and "have faith" only goes so far. We have to be able to acknowledge that there are many ways to feel about this, that we have to hang together or, well, you know the rest . . .

On a personal note, I was hurt very badly by some people on a post-election Kerry blog. I noted on that blog that people here and at Kos were extremely upset with Kerry, and that I was trying to defend him (I had not at that time become angry myself, having been proselytized that Kerry "had a plan" and been told not to have negative thoughts).

I had been relying on that blog for healing after the election, sticking with people I had blogged with for months. So it was quite painful when they attacked me for daring to mention that there are some dems who are angry or disillusioned or negative or sad.

Don't we all have to encourage everyone to stick together as dems? Yet it has become an us against them thing, those who believe wholeheartedly in the "Kerry Grand Plan" and are infinitely patient v. those who aren't quite as sure and need more than faith to keep them going and want to see some more action.

Both sides are equally valid - people are just "built" differently.

So IMHO don't beat yourself up for feeling bad - it's not a moral failing on your part. We're not borg - we're all different.

And certainly after all is said and done, whatever happens on 1/6, we will need as many dems/liberals/progressives to stick together and work hard for democracy as possible. The fight doesn't end on 1/6/05 or 1/20/05 or even if/when a dem is president again.

Think about it: the dems are now running Montana of all states - that didn't start in the WH but ON THE GROUND. That's where we are needed after 1/6/05, no matter what happens.

There's no reason to think that our democratic leaders will suddenly start leading, that the FBI will suddenly start doing its job, that the media will become journalistically oriented, and that our judges will become apolitical.

There's no reason to hope, but I'm doing it anyway. I'm suspending disbelief and cynicism for the next 7 days and it feels good!

I choose to believe.

Are you doing OK?
Happy New Year, from your friends at DU! :party:

Honestly this roller coaster is making me feel bi polar I swear! :crazy: But a Very Happy New Year to us all! And than you for asking!:toast:

that in addition to election fraud, these people should be charged with mental cruelty and inflicting severe emotional distress on half the population (MORE than half, actually) of the United States.

We are the lucky ones. WE KNOW THE TRUTH. If we discover in the end that not one Senator BELIEVES the TRUTH then that will be yet another revelation in this long journey...

We are the fortunate ones...

Oh, and by the way, while it is kind of grim, this article actually made me feel better.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Dec2004/Ward1230.htm

Kerry Swoops In To Help... Or Something
by Max Ward
www.dissidentvoice.org
December 30, 2004

"By now you've seen the headline: Kerry Files Motion to Protect Ohio Vote Evidence. Excuse me while I ... I would have said "puke", but there's nothing left to come up. Everyone who is not inside the Kerry/ABB tent who has been following the Kerry campaign and the Ohio recount effort, has already been dry heaving for months. When are all those good, honest-to-a-fault people going to climb out of the trenches of democracy and admit they've been hosed?"

Hey, at least we're the "good, honest-to-a-fault people", and not the lying, thieving, bombing bad guys, right?

I believe in all the hardworking folks here in DU land that remind me that I live in a democracy some of us are willing to fight for in the face of not so great odds. We will not faint in the face of these odds. We will put whipped cream on them and eat them for Breakfast!
Hang in there Saracat! Sometime, I do not know when we will triumph and drink champagne. I toast you in advance tonight!
Happy New Year!
Love,
Melissa

for a while.

I've been in a state of depression about politics since
late in 2000.

You're listening to too many rumours, positive and
negative about what the Senators are going to do.
The rumours don't mean a thing. I'm sure you've
done what you can to have an affect on the events.

Truth is, none of us knows what will happen.
I have my hopes, but after last time around,
and after 4 years of the accomodationist approach
in Congress, I'm only moderately optimistic.

But even if I'm wrong, it won't be the end.
There is a long fight ahead, you need your
strength. Devote some of it to making yourself
calm.

Remember R. Hillel's words in Pirkei Avot:

If I am not for myself, who is for me?
When I am for myself, what am I?
If not now, when?