Secession?

The question is not whether you are ready to secede but whether you are open to that as a possibility if all else fails. It is clear that there are too divided segments of our country with two divided ideologies. One group wants to make sure that all people are protected, receive equal treatment and that the world is peaceful and healthy. The other group wants to destroy anyone who doesn't share their religious ideology and, in general likes killing and polluting. The second group want to control the bodies of others - a form of slavery. Quite frankly, I would rather our national policy did not have to take the second group into consideration.

They should be 3 countries also. How the hell do you divide this country when half is in WEST and half in the NE?

May I nominate Kucinich for OUR new Prez?

You have to drive through Canada to get to Alaska currently. Perhaps, driving through Canada or through Oppressionville is something we'll need to get from parts of the Democratic United States of America to other parts.

I agree about Iraq. One government won't do it.

Or do you think we'd all just be ceded by Canada?

The Hawaiian people want total secession......

End Red State Welfare!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/142836/638

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/151749/966

I don't want to wait. I want to be a separate country from Jesusland.

I like the three countries idea.


Cher

If they want to wallow in poverty and ignorance, let them. I want no part of it.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/11/3/142836/638

"It truly is unfair that we have to support the states that elect us a president who doesnt support our values. I'm all for an embargo against Texas beef and other such southern products. Remember the "French embargo" that the GOPers had back in March 2003? Go along with the same thing against GOP states. Hey Illinois has a lot of corn if you need some :)
Don't travel in heavy Republican states or areas and all the like. They want to assault our way of life? We'll withold the dough."
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"Lord, what a freaking good idea. But it deserves a better diary title; a vague one like yours pulls in the like of me but that's not good enough. As the queen of finding better diary titles, I hereby declare that this one should be titled "Blue states should shut down federal govt".

Another idea along the same lines: we can ALL shut down the federal government by simply disallowing the withholding of our federal taxes from our paychecks, and socking that money away in an account to pay your taxes when they're due. It's my understanding that this is perfectly legal, but it would have the effect of CRIPPLING the federal government."
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"But on Air America today a caller said that he had seen a couple of maps in Newsweek
One showing the read and blue states --
The other showing all the soldiers that have died - what states they came from for the most part -- it was the blue states.
We not only pay for you - we bleed for you - and we die for you."
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They are laughing.

I moved to a red state a couple years ago, and they think it is a joke. They don't want the money, but they'll take it, with contempt for us in the process.
Let me tell you, they know they don't put in, they won't raise their own state taxes, it just gives them an excuse to do nothing. Like Mexico. When ever there's problems in Mexico, they send their people North. They don't reform, they do not bother to help the economy or the poor. The Blue states need to expand, people need to support their own, and when the recession hits from the skyrocketing deficit hits, at least those states will have the buffer.
I can assure Fed funds are NOT appreciated in MS, unless they go to company, or organization, or a defense contractor (they have dozens here).

hey. great idea

Stop! Don't make me whack a shitload of "waggawagga" upside yo' haid. ;-)

However, We need to put those Southern Bush-supportin' ignoramuses in their place tho---

My husband calls this "the Western solution":

Pick up Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, maybe even Montana. Also Oregon, Washington, maybe even South Dakota, and realign them permanently with the democrats.

The western states are the most secular states in the country, and some of the most libertarian. (They also may be fairer in their voting systems).

The Northeastern and great lakes states, along with Massachussets were a natural coalition for Theodore Roosevelt (who, though a Republican, now closely resembles Democrat's values). Kerry was ahead while campaigning, thendecided to go to Virgina; he shoulda gone to Nevada and Arizona, gathered support from the American Indian, Latinos, and people that live in cities-- people who want to conserve the environment and enjoy the outdoors.

We should try to gain in the legislatures and governorships, and secretaries of state of the aforementioned Western States.

The West is the weakest in following the Far Right agenda and its time to start exploiting those weaknesses. Rove knows you have to get down to the county and precinct level and that would be the way to take this area back. One elected official at a time; one county election chief at a time.

If we all continue fighting as hard as we have this past year, then we'll eventually take out country back. If we give up, or if the Democratic party swings farther to the right, or if the Republican/Fundies continue to gain power and succeed in imposing a theocracy, then I will sadly move to Canada, Australia, or Europe.

Very few people in the Blue states would even consider it, let alone vote for it.

Want to fight the Christian Taliban and the BushCo fascists? Then fight them. Don't waste your time on things like secession, or "who will we run in 2008".

Hey, folks? Most of us didn't have a voice in who we ran THIS time. That choice was made by dems in a red state and the pro-Bush media. I have nothing against Kerry but I was against him as our candidate for the very reason the Swift Boat Liars were able to savage him; he has a record that is simply too sophisticated and nuanced for the average voter to understand, and what people don't understand, they fear. So, that's over and done.

Rather than secede from the US, I'd suggest we secede from the old line Democratic establishment. That would be a lot easier, and in the long run, probably accomplish much more.

Very few people in the Blue states would even consider it, let alone vote for it.

Not necessarily--if the case is laid out in a way that shows the benefits,there's every possibility they would consider it and vote for it.

I am saying this as a legal or paperwork move, not as a "civil war" in which there is bloodshed.


Cher

Ironically, the red states would almost certainly support our secession! They despise us. This is a win/win situation. We could probably even do this peacefully.

If you look at the blue states, we have an abundance of resources. I suspect we would all be a lot richer after secession.

how could we still have a clean environment when the repukes are right over the border polluting our air, water, cutting down trees, killing every animal in sight and driving their big old Hummers? It would have to be a separate land away from here. What's happening in Ohio coal mines affects the water and air in Connecticut. We would have to leave unless we built a bubble around OUR country. ;)

Democracy Island anyone?

I truly understand how the South felt when Lincoln was elected, and why they ultimately decided to make good on their threat to secede if he was elected. I never, ever thought I'd understand anything about the South, let alone why they seceded, but now I do.

On our side, we have the issues that stir the human
heart to compassion and inspire the mind to the cause of human dignity and equality.

In comparison, the south was awash in deep hypocracy. They were much as they are now. So was the north, but their hypocracy did not cause a social fugue until the late 19th century labor movement.

But the south's 19th C. fugue and its martial spirit were based on the same sentimental scapegoating and self entitlement that drives the occupants of Jesusland.

Jesusland is giving its first Rebel Yell, but we do not have the luxury of losing the first year of the war. Thangs are different nowdays. Consider that we are not the ones promoting a radical change. Bushiban is pushing the whole Jesus, Guns, and Bubba the NASCAR dad model of America. The problem is that the world spent the last of its generosity and hope on the election, which looks pretty fookin crooked from the outside, based on friends journals.

I think that in truth, the Jesuslanders are seceding from us.
So I think I know how General Lyons, sitting in Ft. Leavenworth Kansas in the 1850's felt. I think he felt that things were falling apart faster than anyone had first suspected, when his soldiers were suddenly in the middle of an actual civil war, in the sense of a war where neighbors sniped down neighbors,few barns were left unburned, and a nation stood divided on opposite sides of a creek, guns drawn and waiting for the first shot.

or at least crimp it pretty good. Think of what would happen if the blue states, in close proximity to Canada, quit sending their tax dollars to Washington D.C. Talk about a "boycott". I understand that 9/10ths of the money is in the blue states anyway. This would drop a hammer on the Military Industrial Complex. They are going to destroy the world anyway if we don't stop feeding them.

We could join with the Canadians. Many peaceloving people in the US have much more in common with them than they do the redneck states.


This map looks pretty good to me.

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/11/con04485.html

http://www.marryanamerican.ca/

Ladies and gentlemen,
drop your borders
Now that George W. Bush has been officially elected, single, sexy, American liberals - already a threatened species - will be desperate to escape.

OMG, is that hilarious, I so desperately needed that laugh! In all seriousness, though, it's something I would very much like to consider. I have so much more in common socially and politically with Canadians, anyway. I wonder if there'd be much market for a never-married, almost-40 single mother, though?

A high school friend of mine married a Canadian a few years ago; they met when he was transferred to her workplace for a one-year assigment. They struggled over where to live, Canada or the USA, and ultimately decided on Canada (they're in Vancouver, I believe). She says now that she's SOOOOOOOOOO glad they did!!!! Frankly, I'm green with envy right now, lol!

:hi:

.

Didn't work out.

Been wanting to do this since the early nineties. Would just love to live on the Left coast, closely tied or even belonging to our sane northern compatriots Canada......TO HELL WITH THE INBRED MENTALLY CHALLENGED TARDS THAT POPULATE THE SOUTH AND MIDWEST. WE CAN'T WASTE ONE MORE PRECIOUS SECOND ON THOSE KNUCKLEDRAGGERS. THEY HAVE BEEN TWISTED AND BENT TO THE NTH DEGREE, CUT'EM LOOSE AND SEND THE REST OF THE SMALL MINDS SOUTH WHERE THEY WILL UNDOUBTEDLY BE MUCH, MUCH MORE COMFORTABLY AMONGST THERE OWN CLOSEMINDED, ASHAMED, FEARFUL,SCARED OUT OF THEIR WITS COMRADES! LET THE PRICKS FEED OFF OF EACH OTHER, LET THEM ACCUSE EACH OTHER OF NOT BEING HOLY ENOUGH TO REACH THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN, AND SO SAVE US THE TIME TO CONVINCE THEM THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS THE SAVIOR OF MARY MAGDELENE THE PROSTITUTE,OF THE CRIMINALS THAT WERE LYNCHED WITH JESUS AT GOLGOTHA, OF ALL OF THE DOWN AND OUTERS THAT INHABIT THIS LAND AND THE LANDS OF THE WORLD.........................Sorry, just couldn't hold this shit inside anymore....

..if the "red" and "blue" states were solidly red and blue? But they aren't - they are nearly 50/50 in most cases. The Kerry voters and the Bush voters are intermingled in all the states. Assuming you can believe the numbers, even California was 55/44. This is not a country that's divided regionally, it's just divided.

And many such people, though not all such people, in the buildup to the war physically moved to the side they supported.

are you TRYING to have them round us up?

Better than secession is to take back our government. We tried the legitimate way twice and those in power have held on using every illegal means available. It's back to the 60's folks.... the only thing government reacts to is massive demonstrations. I will show up in DC on January 20th and shut down that city but need about a million more to join me. Anyone interested?

I'll go for that

Here's just a tidbit:

" But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. --Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."


I also submit that there is no time like the present. The American military is engaged all over the world, stretched to its limits, and may not have the ability to put down an insurrection here at home.
(Looking for black helicopters over my house now...)

we are all conservatives here? We want to restoration and protection of our Constitutional rights, and feel vindicated by our Declaration of Independence.

The Reds on the other hand just can't wait to rip up the past and execute their revolutionary agenda to remake the world in the image of the philosophy of Leo Strauss.

Not Jesus -- they just use Jesus -- Jesus is Blue.

I'm seriously for this, we need another revolution, but how do you get a state to secessed in this day of age? No way would a state's politician be for it.

you've got most of the northern border, the entire west coast, and the northeast. get the rest of the east coast, the rest of the northern border and somehow (i have NO idea how!) the gulf coast states and you can landlock them.