Let's send Kerry Thank you/retirement cards!! :)

It was very nice for Kerry to run on behalf of all of us- so called liberals- but I think NOW is the time to thank Kerry for his efforts and wish him a nice retirement- we are in no need of democrats who play dead - in fact, we have a surplus! Go back to wind-surfing off Nantucket- or was it Martha's Vineyard. I hope you do not get burned by the sun-

G

The election wasn't about him. It was about getting rid of Bush. I like your logo.

He has his own constituents in Mass. If they don't like his work, they'll let him know in about 4 years.

He's not going anywhere. Deal with it and knock off the childishness. Aim. it. at. Bush.

Plus, what message do y'all want him to get? Are you offended that he's still active? God forbid he should actually come up with something positive, eh? That would be a great tragedy. Best he just spends his next four years as senator just staring out into space. Yeah, just go away Kerry. That'd show the Bush cabal.

I'm surprised you people still have feet left to shoot.

I have never been let down like this - even Gore put up more of a fight!! As for is years in the senate, I would not count on anything less than a man who should protect the environment, and other important values. HE WILL ALWAYS BE A SENATOR- the idea that he should ever run for prez should be put down ASAP - WE need a president who can stand up and fight!

It's way too early to say who should and shouldn't run. I'm just going to hunker down and see what happens in the next Congress. I want fireworks.

Gore at least had the popular vote, by the way. And even Gore didn't understand the fraud aspect, only the recount aspect.

The recount did diddly poop in Ohio. If that's all we were waiting for, it wouldn't have changed anything.

We do, however, still have lawsuits in Ohio, at least one of which Kerry is involved with.

Conceeding used to be the norm. This was not the way to fight with no evidence. We needed credibility, or we were going to do more damage than good.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, a friend at church says her cousin in Ohio is going around and speaking on the subject of election reform. She's been keeping me posted on what was goinging on in the streets through him. He believes there was fraud too. My church friend agreed with me, that this needs to be about the vote, not about Kerry. He did the right thing.

and I am glad he is in OHIO now.

It's not like we didn't know about Diebold 2 years ago - it's just that Democratic "leaders" like Kerry chose to not say shit. Fuck 'em - we don't need Kerry - we have plenty of Democrats with a SPINE - Barbara Boxer, Howard Dean, Dennis Kucinich - who the hell needs Kerry? Not me.

Even I KNEW that the election would be stolen...I even told the DNC not to ask me for any more money until they dealt with the problem of the voting machines..I don't remember them addressing the issue at all. It does make you wonder how clueless they truly are. Many of us here KNEW this would happen, and yet they just LET it happen.

Concentrate on fixing the rigged system, not Kerry-Bashing. (BTW, windsurfing junk is a low-blow compared to vacation happy Bush, isn't it?)
Anyways, let's focus election stealing. What happened exactly to the smallest detail? What groups are working to make it better?

Gore got bad advise and didn't understand the nature of the problem he was facing. Gore also didn't want to cast the deciding vote in his own presidnecy. I can respect that decition even though I disagreed with it.

Kerry wimped out. While Edwards was out on the stump, asuring voters that an investigation would be launched, Kerry pulled the rug out from under him.

If you answer yes, then let me follow up my question with another question. "How could you fail us so?" If you couldn't convince your friends to vote for Kerry, then you failed the campaign and our nation. Have you been able to convince your friends that the fraud occurred? If you cannot convince your friends that the fraud happened and he actually won, how can you expect Kerry to convince a nation of strangers?

There was no way he could "stay and fight" - standing up on the 6th would have been an embarrassment for the party and those trying to get the election investigated. If he had been there then the 6th would have been about him, not about election reform.

I couldn't get all of them, but I tried. Which is more than what Kerry did after Nov 2nd.

With an attitude like Kerry's we would have never left the British Empire, let alone become the greatest nation on earth.

your small view of the issues. Look beyond your simple needs to the bigger picture. He did more than you did to try to get the job and protect our rights. When the heck have you ever run for office? When you gonna run for president of USA or any other elected office? It is disgusting how so many think he is wrong but they themselves have never gone out on the limb to try to get the position that can make a difference.

It is pathetic.

Are you saying that because I don't have the same opportunities as some other Americans that my activism isn't enough? How do you know I've never run for office? How do you know if I do not hold an office now? How do you know I didn't make significant sacrifies in time, energy, family and money to help Kerry become President?

What difference would it make if I did? How would that make me more qualified to talk about this subject than you?

In a Democracy, all citizens are expected to take an active role in government. You don't need 'special qualifications' such as military experience, wealth, government experience, the willingness to bleed or a title of nobility to be considered a patriot.

In this country, candidates are not martyrs. It is a privilege to serve the public good. And in return for this privilege, politicians are expected to fight for the rights of all Americans.

No American should be made to feel guilty for expecting Kerry do what he said he was going to do: Namely, fight to make sure that every vote would count.

It was the rank-and-file activists who went out on a limb for Kerry, not vice-versa. They manned the phone banks, walked door-to-door and donated money. In return for their efforts, rank-and-file Dems got a man who was so entrenched in the system, that he refused to fight when the party needed him most.

I can think of no "bigger picture" issue than the sanctity of the vote.

vote, you would recognize that Kerry taking a position on the 6th would have made the issue about him and not election reform. If he fought like Gore fought, it would have been a bunch of sore losers and sour grapes. The official count has the weed winning both the popular vote (by 2 plus million) and the electoral college. In 2000, the official record had Gore winning the popular vote and the weed winning the electoral college and the margin of victory was much smaller. That is a big difference, a very big difference.

You are the one that wrote:
"I couldn't get all of them, but I tried. Which is more than what Kerry did after Nov 2nd."

You don't know what he has done and you judge him because you think you do know and that, imho, is silly. I'm sort of funny in figuring that since the guy campaigned over 600 days, mortgaged his house, put his honor and his family out there to be ridiculed and harassed and tarnished, he gave plenty and did a whole heck of a lot than you and me. I'm kind of funny that way, I give people credit for their actions. Not to mention his prior service to this country. I often wonder for those who judge so harshly what their service has been and if their record even comes close to his.

Thanks.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

"All the whiners on this thread" are as legitimately allowed to air their thoughts as any other, and should not be belittled for doing so.

....until then, I'll just think of his BCCI + Iran/Contra busts ....he was pretty casual w/ them until it was time to spring the trap..... getting your ducks in a row is a good thing.

and I hope he has a nice, long career there! Boxer/Dean 2008!

We need experience in the fight against the right-wing neo-conservatives, and throwing away those familiar with their tactics is idiocy at its worse.

We need to unite behind Kerry's efforts. This is from earlier post:


"They hope you will just go away, they are COUNTING on it."


...John Kerry, in email to his supporters.

After voting for Wesley Clark in the primaries, I worked to support John Kerry in this election as I have never supported a candidate before, because after 2000, I knew the only way I could survive a similar result in 2004 was if I personally had done everything I could to prevent it. So I did. I think John Kerry did, too.

After November 2nd, while trying to understand what happened in this Presidential election, I started doing on-line research. Like many of you, I discovered the facts. I completely believe that Kerry won this election, and his actions from the beginning also show he knows it. I decided that my yard sign would stay until January 6th, when I would understand more about what had happened and could make a better decision about how to proceed. I decided my bumper sticker would stay there forever, because I want the world to know I didn't vote for this administration's planned policies (like changes to Social Security, pre-emptive war, etc.) John Kerry, in my opinion, would be an excellent president.

I watched yesterday's Electoral Vote challenge with great interest. On the positive side, I am thrilled that history was made, and that activists helped to promote that. While I was disappointed that Congressional Democrats did not vote for the challenge, I was, and am, so proud that they spoke in support of Election Reform, which should have happened after the 2000 Election. I am especially proud of Senator Barbara Boxer (from my home state of California) for being the senator to sign the challenge. Just the fact that there WAS a signed challenge this time, is a step toward the goal of fixing elections before 2008. On the negative side, we were mocked by Congressional Republicans...by both their words and actions. They don't want election reform, and I could see in their faces that they viewed this challenge as an annoyance and a joke. So the down side, for me, is I finally understand how hard this is going to be. I think John Kerry knew this from the beginning.

In John Kerry's email (way back in November) to his 3,000,000,000 on line supporters he included a videotape with the words, "They hope you will just go away...they are counting on it." When I first listened to his words, they seemed very "out-of-context" to me. I've listened to them several times since, and they fit the context of January, 2005 perfectly. While it was very disappointing to me that he seemed to be looking beyond Election 2004 and telling us (his base)what he wants us to do, after yesterday, I now see that he is right. We Democrats, liberal or moderate, are TOTALLY out of power. We have little say in Congress or in the courts, and no say in the executive branch. The only way we will be able to accomplish anything within this government, especially considering we have a broken election system, is if we do not just go away like the Republicans are counting on us to do. John Kerry said we must "stand firm" and he is right. In his most recent email to supporters (the one where he asked us to call Speaker Hastert and Senate Majority Leader Frist and then LET HIM KNOW WHEN WE HAD DONE SO ) Kerry has begun the fight. If we, his on line supporters, go away, Congressional Democrats will have even less success in this fight. I believe we must stay engaged and support John Kerry and Democrats (who spoke so eloquently yesterday) in their efforts.

I don't know who I'll vote for in 2008. I still think Wesley Clark is great. I like John Edwards' enthusiasm. If Al Gore ran again, I've always thought he would make a great president. Maybe John Kerry, with our support will yet surprise us all (I REALLY hope so!). But I do know I'll never vote for a Republican, and I do know I want my vote counted this time. I think Kerry IS still fighting for us and there IS something to hang on to. So no matter who I decide on for 2008, Kerry has my support until this election reform fight is won!



:)

I' want to at least lose with a guy, (or maybe woman), who can say the word "DIEBOLD" - and call it when the election is FALSE!! - DID YOU SIT AROUND ON THE COMPUTER ALL ELECTION SEASON?? I FROZE MY BUTT OFF FOR A CANDIDATE WHO COULDN'T"T STAND UP AND I AM PISSED OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!

That your post is little more than an attack on John Kerry that is aimed at drawing out and dividing the people that post here. Your response above was both rude and counterproductive.

"DID YOU SIT AROUND ON THE COMPUTER ALL ELECTION SEASON??"

I find it particularly distasteful since it was directed at a newbie.

There is plenty of time between now and the next primary season. Why not save your comments on a Kerry presidency for then? Right now, we need to realize that we are all on the same team...right?

We do realize who the enemy is, correct?

We all wish that John Kerry had won beyond the margin of fraud. That did not happen. If I can't have a President Kerry, I think I will settle for a Senator Kerry and I will save that retirement card for "the idiot" May he link up with his village very soon.

Edit:sp

What do you say to someone who spent their time volunteering for Kerry, going out in the cold to campaign for him - only to have to watch him SURRENDER like the coward that he is?

"We all wish that John Kerry had won beyond the margin of fraud."

He could have said something - it's not like that gasbag didn't know how to talk. He CHOSE not to.

Fuck 'em. No need to waste anymore time on Kerry the Loser. We have Democrats with Spines now.

History will judge what John Kerry did or did not do to expose, investigate and prosecute those responsible for the fraud perpetrated in this past election. You have your opinion, I have mine. How we feel about John Kerry at this juncture is actually very much irrelevant. He will be in the Senate for at least the next four years. I personally hope that he works to advance our progressive issues.

What is relevant is building unity. We all volunteered, donated money, waited in line and suffered through this atrocity of an election. Some of us are angry with John Kerry, some us are supportive.

We have an enemy, and I suggest it is not John Kerry. Would you agree with that InvisibleBallots? We ARE united against the same enemy right? Sometimes I wonder...

edit: hmmm it must be late

Christ, did you REALLY spend your time volunteering "FOR KERRY??" Or did you volunteer for you, your family, and your Progressive values?? If you did it FOR KERRY, you're a bigger fool than you appear.

And now that it didn't turn out the way you wanted, you're going to trash our people and our party and YOUR OWN FUCKING VALUES like a child throwing a tantrum??? That's hardly a Progressive approach.


NGU.

Kerry would be a fool to make accusations he couldn't back up like you suggest. Until someone in a position to know steps forward to explain exactly how this happened, Kerry has no choice but to quietly protest the result and ask us to continue our work.

I think most people have to work under the assumption, once again, that Bush stole it fair and square.

Until you find the evidence that proves Bushco stole the election, do us and John Kerry a favor and try to moderate your criticism a bit.

We all lost this election. We all share in the responsibility for dealing with its consequences. Even if it was stolen.

If you wanna play "I have a right to bitch 'cause I worked so hard" games, then bring it. I worked the election season too.

I gave money I didn't have. Among other things, I took off work for my birthday and spent it at HQ. I took off the final 5 days of the election to GOTV. And on Nov 1st, I stood in the rain for 2 1/2 hours waiting to see the man I thought was going to be the next president. I'm not stopping the support now.

And I agree. That comment about the newbie was below the belt. You don't know this person from Adam. They very well could have done alot. You didn't have a monopoly on campaign work.

Sounds like you wanted Kerry to win more than he did? :shrug: ?

Welcome to DU!

And I agree. Bush wants us all to go away. None of us can. And we need all the support we can get from leaders willing to fight.

He might not be fighting exactly where and when people want, but he's out there just the same.

but I'll hold off on the retirement card until January 2017 when he is finishing his second term as President.

oh, never mind, we'll just have to wait for Barbara "Spinal Cord" Boxer.

Some people just don't get it: NOBODY -- not even Billy Graham -- could have won against WhatsHisFace's vote-stealing machine.

Let's keep the anger where it belongs:

"WhatHisFace's vote-stealing machines" will all be gone in 2008?

No guarantees, but we're sure going to work hard to get the problems solved.

stop being a Senator. His work there has been excellent for the most part.
Also going on a fact finding tour is not playing dead, its ducking the issues, but it could be useful, who knows?
My postcard to Kerry:
"Thank you running on behalf of this bisexual liberal. I am glad that you took my advice, returned to the Senate and continued your diplomacy. Please do not numb yourself to the pain of electoral fraud. Please continue in helping us to build a true American Democracy wherein the sacred trust one voter, one vote is upheld.
Signed,
A Supporter from Maryland's sixth congressional district."
After everything he did for gay rights, I can't help but love and respect the man, even when he confuses or irritates me. He's like a member of my family.

In the form of support for his ongoing efforts.

Personally, I'm working on a retirement card for GW...and it's not going to have a thank-you in it.

Kerry ran for the office of President. I voted for him.

I didn't vote for him only because Bush was the opponent.

I voted for Kerry, in the end, because I liked him and thought
he would have made a good President, even though he wasn't
my first choice for the candidate.

Sure, I may be disappointed in some of Kerry's choices
along the way, but anyone who's watched a few election
cycles knows that this is in the nature of politics.

I'm not going to be a traitor to my own feelings about the
man, which remain on the whole positive feelings.

He's still in the Senate, and I hope he can do some
good for us there.

Sending him mail of the sort you propose seems
to me to be counter-productive. It's too bitter.
It doesn't do you any good. I guarantee his staff
will toss it away. If you were him, would you read
all of the mail of that sort he's probably getting?

I sure wouldn't.

If I were you, and I felt as strongly disappointed in
the man as you do, then I would try expressing my
disappointment in a less flippant manner. See if
you can find something positive you'ld like him
to do at the same time.

YMMV, of course. But that's how I see it.

Remember * Sr.'s cigarette boat?

No one made fun of that.

Besides, Kerry won.

of the reasons.He was gas guzzling while everyone else was counting their pennies at the pumps for their cars.

Not knowing what a supermarket scanner didn't help either. People viewed him as an elitist. Just as some did with Kerry's windsurfing, snowboarding, etc. Yes, the press did play these things up, but didn't Kerry have a clue that they were attacking his "costumes". When he went to NASA and donned that spacesuit, and the final shot in the foot, the "a hunting we will go" get-up. I cringed when I saw that.

As a rifle owning hippie dippie long hair, Kerry was someone I often pointed to whenever I heard a rethug say something like "we've got the guns". I own a few rifles and Kerrys hunting epeisodes were something I was aware of for a long time now...

Look at it this way, the problem was the jacket! They bought him a new jacket, probably because his favorite is frayed and worn out. Most hunters wear the favorite jacket till its threadbare anyway... so blame it on the jacket not the man! LOL...

And yes, that jacket looked like it just came right off the rack.

I was just ranting a bit and posted quickly before leaveing for work!

but yeah...
new jacket ='s bad photo op!

Have a Beautiful day! :)

Its been one long Beautiful Day for me since the 6th!

I feel like Ive taken an overdose of Viagra suppositories for my political soul!

Thank you for that! :)

humor can heal.
and love can mend.
but steal my vote!
and I go off the deep end!

The hunting party is just starting, this administration and its allies
couldnt have put a bigger target on their backs! Youcanhave total faith in that.

compassion will be hard to muster for them when their karma comes due!

The Sociopath and his fellow Lunatics pay for their crimes against us the American people, Humanity, all of the denizens of our planet, and against our planet too. I wish ill on no one as a rule, yet I too hope that karma bites them firmly in the ass. ;)

BTW....Their stealing of votes is not at the very top of my list. My rub is their stealing of innocent lives for their own gratification.

On that happy? note! Yikes!

Have an equally beautiful night! :)

I am not Kerry fan to say the least. But there is no reason to be rude or to kick him out of the senate.

On the other hand if you want to do something useful you can send him a letter urging that he get on the paper ballot only bandwagon.

To Gretchen...It's never wise to make assumptions. I can see that you cared about this election (that's good) and were greatly disappointed, as I was, at Kerry's loss. I just choose not to blame Kerry alone for the loss. I began computer research AFTER the election. I'm a teacher, mother and grandmother, so most of my time is spent at work, or with my family. Because this election was so important to me (as it was to you) I spent my weekends driving to the swing state of Nevada from my home in California to volunteer for Kerry/Edwards. I don't know if you realize it, or not, but candidates are human. I just think this kind of "card" is cruel.:(

So thank you for your efforts, but now go find another message board for your anger and hostility. And I know just the one.

NGU.

from the Republicans about Bush, war, patriotism, etc. Want to join a pep rally, come to DU. Want to dissent, go away.

I agree only somewhat with your sentiment as to not criticizing within the party, it works for the Republicans, BUT the Republicans also have leaders who show exquisite political acumen and at least act like they have balls, even though they have no hearts. Some difference. And it also worked for Hitler.

...you probably don't know the difference.

NGU.

<LMFAO>

NGU.

No point in recriminations to JK. IMO he's a hero just for going up against the Juggernaut and playing by the rules, unlike the other so-called team. Kerry won, or came much closer to it than it appears. Too early to judge his behavior immediately after the selection. I am curious about why he was so quiet. It may say more about our repressive times and near total election system failure than it says about him. I never invested in Kerry as my "Savior." I think he's doing the best he knows how to do, that's all I can ask.
Jeez--windsurfing crap and hunting crap--so yesterday. :boring:
To gretchen--original post--a retirement card might make you feel better but why a nasty approach? How about a letter expressing genuine disappointment in Kerry from your perspective and a list of concerns about the election fiasco? Constructive criticism is likely to be heard. Reactive overblown tarring and feathering. Useless.

You might find supporters for your proposal in the Wound-Licking and Howling in the Wind Forum.

NGU.

Sure, Kerry made some mistakes in his campaign. But I am also sure that he is intelligent enough to learn from them. I am expecting him to be a real leader in the Senate, to propose legislation and keep the Democratic Party in the spotlight over the next few years. I doubt you can find a better person to do it.

You don't want a political candidate. You want a martyr.

The bottom line is that when things got tough, he rolled over.

There is no disgrace in losing an election. No disgrace in losing a recount.

But let's face it, Kerry rolled over at the first sign of a fight. He didn't lift a finger to help make sure every vote would count, and only filed a complaint at the last minute.

Then, to add insult to injury, he sent a form-email out to volunteers asking for support before he left the country... leaving Sen Boxer holding the bag. (I wonder if he even made a thank-you phone call.)

He's not going anywhere.

But you left out "flip-flopper" and "Kerry's French."

You and your "so-called liberal" friends can harass Kerry if you like. The rest of us actual liberals will continue working on the issues. Vitriol and divisiveness against our own serve no purpose, except to aid the opposition.

If he had yelled election fraud without hard evidence, the media and republicans would have crucified him as a sore loser. Since he didn't stand up the democrats crucify him as a loser. I believe he's cleverly working his plan and we will see people in prison for election fraud. Instead of bashing Kerry, we should put our efforts into exposing and informing American of the fraud.

Can we at last see some of these people heading to jail? God, that would make it all worth it.

Look, what is he supposed to do? The Republicans already made Gore look like a whiny loser, I am sure Kerry didn't want to come across that way. When he saw that there was NO WAY he was going to win a recount, he conceded. I think thats about all he could do, look like a statesman. Basically, he was covering his ass. Hmmm now that I think of it, it was pretty lame of him..

Well I dont know now, I still understand what and why he did it. Shit you guys make me think too much!

quick concession, I don't fault Kerry anymore. If you move far enough away and take an objective view, you'll see what influenced Kerry also influences most of our democratic leaders. The political climate and the repug arrogance has created a world in Washington where loudly affirming the truth is viewed as suicidal. We have to remember that DC IS their world and everything is filtered through that climate and the MSM.

Our world here on DU and in the blogosphere allows for different perceptions. Reality is what we perceive. There was a time, before the advent and influence of TV, when it was possible to have more clarity in one's perception, when there was real debate over issues.

The much talked about race that resulted in the creation of the law which allowed for Congress to challenge the Ohio electors on Jan. 6th was Tilden(D)-Hayes(R). No one was afraid to say FRAUD then and it rang out from all corners of our country. He will forever be remembered as RutherFRAUD B. Hayes and the stain of fraud remains today.

On January 6th not ONE Dem member of Congress was able to simply state FRAUD! Why blame this on Kerry? As a reasonable man he listened to the "reasonable" educated people who were experts but who were wrong. I think of any American receiving advise from their doctor or lawyer or acccountant, and I understand why he accepted their advise. We've all been programmed to listen to those professionals and assume they're right.

Kerry probably realized that nothing could be gained in the current national climate where reality was determined by a media which was controlled by the opposition. He had learned first hand with the handling by the MSM of one poorly constructed ad. The swiftboat ad wouldn't have had much effect if it wasn't covered 24/7 for weeks on TV. By giving unprecedented exposure to this ad, the MSM media was directly responsible for the resultant funding of additional ads and the purchase of airtime in many more states than would have been possible - so it resulted in a double whammy, with continual coverage on the News and cable news stations plus the purchased air time.

I won't fault him for being pragmatic and recognizing that there was no other viable course of action at the time. I do believe that Kerry is now on a mission and has to make certain that the MSM doesn't destroy him before he can get it off the ground. He's let us know that and we should have some faith in him. Good leaders don't grow on trees.

You just put it better than me.
He did what a DC person (politician) does.
He picks his battles I think, and he could not have won a recount.
So he conceded, but still brought up election problems.
I think in the DC way, it was the best he could do at the time.
Maybe he will fight battles that we arent aware of yet, choosing something (vote reform) that he can win?
I am not gonna judge him fully until later.
Lets see what he does.

but i think the reason he thought he couldn't win a recount isn't necessarily b/c he really lost, but b/c of what kind of bullshit they would pull in Ohio - just as we saw them do with the recount they had. Kerry had already had his suspicions about Kenneth Blackwell - I'm sure he knew that even if he asked for a recount, he wouldn't get a fair one.

and we should cover his back when he makes his move, like the DU did Jan 5th ,with the massive e-mail attack. You can call it (J-5 ORANGE ALERT). Also you could use the J-5 alert if you don't see any progress being made on election reform once a month or so. Just a thought.

GOD DAMNIT!!! WE ARE NOT IN ANY POSITION TO THROW AWAY GOOD LEADERS!!!

If and when Clark loses in 2008, are you going to dump him to the side?

If and when Boxer loses in 2008, are you going to dump her to the side?

If and when Gore loses in 2008, are you going to dump him to the side?

If and when Kucinich loses in 2008, are you going to dump him to the side?

If and when Clinton loses in 2008, are you going to dump her to the side?

This is a huge problem with this party. We throw away our losing candidates.

That's the only thing that explains their lame behavior.

Well, maybe after a few generations in the close darkness, Dems will learn what gays learned long ago, the closet is not a very nice place to live. Then maybe they'll finally come out fighting and pull together a movement.

Thanks, your judgemental attitude is so (not) constructive to our common cause.

Don't even think about 2008 John. :thumbsdown:

He knows, we know, the Republicans know, Blackwell knows he probably WON! He got the shaft. Whoever ran on the Democratic ticket would have lost because of the election fraud. He was able to unseat a Republican president during war. That speaks volumes!!! I'll say it again, we are wasting valuable time bashing Kerry, who in all likelyhood is really our president, and put our efforts into something more productive!!

Blah blah blah Kerry didn't fight hard enough, blah blah blah he could have overturned Ohio..etc

Let's take a LOGICAL look at what happened.

Numbers came out, win through standard counting & recount not going to happen due to either a) legit loss or b) fraud...Kerry concedes to quiet things down.

Kerry lawyers in Ohio look into fraud and either a) find nothing or b) no HARD evidence to move forward.

It would be great if someone could stand up in congress and say they think there was fraud and instantly a stop the presses investigation begins but unfortunately that's not how government works. Kerry knows this, and you should too (as it was pr oven on the 6th)

It's pretty obvious he believes there was fraud and that he may have won Ohio which you can see from his and others movement on election reform. In 2000 we got screwed by misleading ballots and shady people in charge. In 2004 we got screwed by straight up deep rooted fraud in the system and shady people in charge. The two are separate instances that don't really relate to each other except that 2000 was merely a precursor to 2004.

What happened in 2000 compared to 2004 is like comparing a color by numbers picture to a photograph taken with a top of the line camera.

Ignoring the popular vote margin (I'll attribute that to lack of motivation by NY & CA Dem's) and looking only to the "close" races, there is no "simple & acceptable" explanation of a Kerry win instead of the current Bush victory. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but something of this magnitude can take years to uncover without a whistle blower. Rest assured that there are people digging, but don't blame Kerry for not taking his place in the White House on the 20th.

~120,000 votes cast or counted and Kerry would be president elect, so don't go trashing the guy, and don't go on some "I'd vote for Nader in 08 before Kerry" tangent because you're going to eat your words in 08.

That's my .02, I'm looking to the future & to election reform & standards to insure that NO political party can commit fraud again.

PASSION IS A WONDERFUL THING TO HAVE, BUT TO HAVE THIS BLIND PASSION IS MAKING YOU NO BETTER THAN THOSE WHO FOLLOW BUSH B/C HE'S "A MAN OF GOD"

real nationwide election reform by 2008 or even 2020 is about as likely as the real and thorough campaign finance reform that this country still does not enjoy even after many years of isolated effort on both sides.

That's why a stronger stance is needed now, and that stance needs to be at least reflected, even if not initiated, by the party leadership.

But do indeed work on election, media, and campaign finance reform. They all have to be started sometime and supported if they are ever to become law. In the meantime, it will harness and direct some of the energy of this unusual time and keep the party faithful safely and usefully occupied till the leadership comes up with their next idea.

pink tutus, go home.
make him the poster child for the kind of leadership we have had enough of. make sure that, come primary time, his most progressive competition gets help from every corner of the country.
we will only get more of the same by heaping love on losers like kerry. we need fighters.

why don't you work on trying to get the voting system
changed in America? Kerry won so the anger should go
in the right direction, at the conservative establishment
who rigged the election in Bush's favor.
Kerry worked his butt off during the campaign and I
was proud to voluteer for my local democratic party
for him and Senator Edwards. Frankly, I am getting tired
of all this negative trashing of Kerry. It is mean
spirited and not what the democratic party stands for.

Why don't you write a nice letter to Sinclair Broadcasting and Nathan Sproul and Blackwell and Diebold and Karl Rove while you're at it.

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Save this nation one town, county, and state at a time!
http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm#why

It's becoming more evident here at DU that people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about are Kerry experts. Jesus, Mary & Joseph. I spend half my life at DU hitting the ignore button.

How democratic of you.

It's not shocking to see that this flaming post came from someone with a "Dennis Kucinich" avatar. Grow up folks. It's pathetic that so many people just don't seem to understand how you win and lose in politics.

utopian democracy will not help us win.