So in this renamed forum, do we still discuss all ways to oust Bush?

Or do we focus exclusively on election reform? In other words, do threads about impeachment, Bush's various lies, our efforts towards regaining the House and Senate in '06, etc., need to be moved?

That way the efforts of neither group get diluted. Both activities could be going on simultaneously with the people who were most passionate about each issue.

... impeachment procedure? People have been asking me, and I don't know all the details.

Thanks!

by any and all means necessary, including impeachment, of course...

Check it out!

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

The name of the forum is not that inclusive, though.

I wish we could have voted on some alternatives. :shrug:

I'd like to be able to discuss it all here. My ADD kicks in if I have to go to more than one place to keep track of the important stuff.

I am not sure why anyone wants to break up this big angry circle. It is most of the appeal.

do with election fraud and reform. The fraud part just didn't get into the name. See post #9 for threads that explain.

Y not? the title isn't just Election Reform its also Advocasy & Action. If we want Elecion reform to happen the action we have to take is to oust Bush Right?

one is for election issues. MAny of us are seriously trying to work on election reform and threads with important information and action steps get buried so fast due to the sheer volume of threads on this forum, many of which are not related to the topic. It lessens our efficiency and we have a LOT of work to do and it needs to be done FAST because there is all kinds legislation being proposed right now that is not good legislation, all kinds of investigations going on that need attention, etc.

Im not gonna argue, you've been at DU longer than me and im guessing your older than me(15). Just wanted to let you know I respect your ideas.

Thanks and Sorry 4 the Post!!!

is any more or less important than yours! I respect your ideas too, and you have great ideas. I would say the fact that I am older isn't really a factor. It's the idea that counts, and being willing to listen to each other's ideas respectfully and being open to consider different ways of looking at something.

I loved your paper that you wrote for your English class. That took some guts in what sounds like a pretty conservative environment. You did such a good job of getting your feelings down on paper. I am a writing teacher and work with a lot of kids who are 12-17.

To hear some who replied to this post you would think DU had no other forums to have your thoughts expressed. This forums is now focused on Election Reform, Advocacy and Action or anything in close discussion of the title.

Do yourselves a lil favor and surf through the many many forums here and understand mostly all forums at DU have heavy participation dealing with every subject imagined.

nothing hard about it! If you want fluff, go to the Lounge, you want politics, head to GD Politics, you want election reform pull up a chair and write away.

See poster nothing hard or intimidating about it. Also if you want to jump in with snide remarks expect the same in return.

it is dead at the Democratic Party forum.

what is about direct titles that you don't understand?

Just because this is the place with energy doesn't mean bring in every possible unrelated angle.

There wasn't just one presidential election in 2004. There weren't just 51 presidential elections either (one for each state plus DC). In effect, each county in the country held its own presidential election, under disparate rules and procedures, with different equipment and often with different registration and provisional voting policies. Investigations are still ongoing.

We have plenty to do here without having to deal with threads about the DNC, candidates for 2008, Condi Rice, etc.

Go create your own energy about whatever it is that gets ya going. In other threads. See ya there!

I don't see impeaching Bush as an election reform issue.

It's a fine idea, I just think it belongs in a different forum. It would cloud both the election issues and the impeachment issues, since election reform is not just an issue that is relevant only to elections involving Bush, and impeachment is not just based on election-related issues.

I just think the issue itself would get better discussion, and election issues would be less diluted, if it were in a more appropriate forum.

The idea was to focus this forum back on election issues, for a variety of reasons. These threads explain:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x298329

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x298456

Thanks.

I was just posing the question, since all of those threads are still here, whether the conclusion was that only the specific issue of election reform could be discussed here.

I think that impeachment et al are tangential to the issue of reform, but I will yield to the general consensus (or moderator intervention). Just trying to determine where it's all supposed to go.

from
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x298329


This was Nashua advocate's response to a question about what would fit in the forum:

Fri Jan-21-05 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #19

26. Sure thing...


...and I can tell you, my aim was not to criticze specific persons *because*, frankly, even those threads which seem to me to be "off-topic" are *nevertheless* important discussions...just not, perhaps, for this particular board. (Again, doesn't mean people can't post whatever they want; this is just my opinion).

I hate to single out -- any more than I have -- specific threads, because it's really not my aim to suggest that anyone here is doing something "wrong," or is somehow hurting the election reform effort, or whatever. Frankly, anyone who's here has their heart in the right place, as far as I'm concerned. Even when The Advocate slammed Kerry and people were upset we'd taken that approach, I think folks appreciated that we were still "on-topic." Which goes to show you, it's not about everyone *agreeing* on things, it's about us all being involved -- as it were -- in the same general *discussion*.

That is, a discussion about election reform.

So, if we want to talk about the media, the presumption is that we want to talk about how the media is or is not covering the election reform issue (with its attendant issues, like election fraud, election irregularities, general "election-related" talk regarding the 2004 election, and so on).

If we want to talk about Bush, the presumption is that we want to talk about something Bush or his agents have or have not done which somehow sheds like on what happened in Election 2004, or what's going to happen with regard to election reform going forward.

If we want to talk about other figures, such as Kerry or Blackwell, the presumption is that -- whatever we think or say about them -- the general "discussion" we're having is on how these people are engaging in (or not engaging in) actions which directly relate to the election reform movement, or damage their credibility with regard to that movement, and so on.

I think if you look back at some of the recent threads -- particularly post-January 6th -- you can see a perceptible slackening of focus where election reform discussion is concerned. I had and have assumed that some of that is people's assumption that the issue has cooled off -- but it *hasn't*. The iron's still hot, and while people could well be forgiven for thinking the flurry of activity nationally on election reform has past, one point of my post is to note that, again, it *hasn't*.

And amen to that!

-- TNE

....the vast 'inertia of fraud,' of which the Bush neocon cabal contributes significantly, will withstand any and all reform efforts.

Pertinent link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=302606&mesg_id=302606

In case you have any doubts, just check what the 'inertia' did to attempts at electoral reform in the 107th and 108th US Congresses.



BE THE BUSH OPPOSITION; 24/7

Election Results and Discussion." How tame does that sound? The most kickass forum on the internet with the hottest Bush crime info.

Their fraud is the fire that burns in our soul.

It destroys all illusion and is creating something new. We cannot forever have nukes and missiles and bombers and bombs and destoyers and armies and covert operations and special forces, and a humngous arms industry dependent on endless war and fear of war, without someone really bad setting their sights upon it all, licking their chops, and moving to seize it for their own nefarious purposes.

The Sixties antiwar movement didn't go far enough. Once the war was lost and the Draft was over, the movement was over. Some people, like the Catholic Workers, have never forgotten what the existence of this military machine really means--always poised to inflict mass death, and ever sucking the life out of the people, with the very poor feeling it first and foremost. They still protest it and go to jail for their protests. But few hear of them.

So maybe the new thing being born out of the raging flame of their fraud that burns inside of us is a clearer view of just how big the problem is.

It cannot be solved by recovering our right to vote, but that's an essential first step.

It's a very powerful thing, the vote, especially right here at the vortex of world power. That's why they took it away.

(I do have a minor quibble with it, but that's not what this post is about.)

I'm trying to figure out what I can post here. I guess I'll just try posting and see if it gets moved.

Actually, in waiting to get some opinions on this, I see someone has already posted the ImpeachBush.org info. that prompted my question, so it seems this is moot.

Thanks to all of you who weighed in. :)

Same game. This is about truth and justice. As far as I am concerned, the name change simply provides longevity for our cause.

His illegitimacy** came to power through two fraudulent elections. If we can lay out the proof for that, by default, we pave the path toward impeachment, indictment etc.

Fraud is grounds for impeachment. This beast is big, and often characters working on one aspect can shed light on another aspect of this issue. One of the things I am learning by reading a book by a good investigator, is to pay attention to the "side stories". Before the cover up happens, you may have a line or two that backs up something that couldn't otherwise be verified. I think we all know in our hearts who the players in voting reform are. ANY info about these players should be posted. It is not like anyone is taking the ignore button away!

difficult and much valuable information and actions steps get buried in the volume of threads. We are talking about what is most effective. The line has to be drawn somewhere or the forums become so large that they lose effectiveness. Many of us have been noticing that. Anything about Bush and Co. that relates to election issues or fraud is still relevant.

All I am saying is important clues happen when the players make moves. When in doubt, I think, post rather then not... we can ignore...

acts and malfeasance. For now I think thats what to concentrate on- documenting, getting affidavits, following up:

Widespread systematic vote machine fraud, and dirty tricks and suppression of minority registration and voting in at least 20 states in 2004 Election: summary of some of the documentation

http://www.flcv.com/ussumall.html