Ohio counts 93,000 more votes, THAN WERE CAST (*&*(T V*Y & MORE COMING

& Olbermann reporting it now. Take that back. EXPOSING IT NOW

one county in Ohio had 18,000 votes but only 13,000 inhabitants.. duh

Florida Counties

Baker County questioning its and the following counties...call were
like 61% democrat or more, yet voted 61% or more republican - doh

Holmes County

Dixie County

Lafayette

Liberty

Broward County Florida Sup of Elections refuses to count paper ballots in boxes!!!! and throws out poll watchers who ask about it.

Are we going to let them do this???

they just made 'em up.

O8)

Their feet don't even touch the ground.

It's all a big smokescreen to cover the theft. The flipped exit polls, spinning "moral values" into votes for **, the phoney GOTV effort in the 11th hour...lies, lies, lies

did you see the colorado numbers? they elected a D for senator, but * for president. if you flip the numbers, it makes perfect sense.

I am in Ohio. I have said this over and over, these people do not exist. Not one person that I have talked to voted for bush. Not even the republicans. bush did not get Ohio...not legally.

Rove's been talking about them for four years just so no one would question all these *new* ultraconservative voters, and the anti-gay shit was a smoke-screen to cover it.

No, Ohio was definitely NOT legal.

Praise the Lord!

Sorry. I'm trying to keep my spirits up....

Show your support for the president, wear a FUCK BUSH button!

http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
(We usually ship same or next day by first class mail)

That would be so like the Rethuglicans.

Instead of the usual Republican slogan, "Love the fetus, hate the child," it's "Count the fetus vote, disenfranchise the already-born."

because 3-4% in that number is IMAGINARY.

Non-Existent Beings For Bush!

And Keith will go down in history as being the first to break it on cable news. It doesn't get any better! ;-)

Keith followed that story with one about Rove mis-speaking on Faux News this weekend, talking about their "narrow" mandate!

Keith, you rule! :toast: Now, stay away from small planes and always wear a string of garlic around your neck. Trust me. ;)

I thought he would wimp out. I adore Keith, but I thought we never get a break. Everyone tape this show so it doesn't go down the memory hole.

Next thing you know, it'll be "Countdown"-what there is no such thing-it never existed. Kinda of like the people that stood in line and waited four years to get rid of Bush and were told they didn't exist.

I'm tired of them telling my reality is wrong.

these "little" mistakes -- a few thousand there and a few thou here -- it does not take long to change to course of an election.

The power of prayers in action -- all the fundies were praying and wow look at what happened. See it's not that hard to be a fundie -- believe what you are told and everything is fine.

Religion is the original psyop -- well in deference to the religions that do encourage thinking and discussion -- I will say Primitive Religion is the original psyops.

Fundies are members of an ancient Primitive Religious sect/cult

If all the errors were in *'s favor,especially if it were, say, in more than one state?

north of the state. The only reason there are so many registered Democrats is because they are still from the old Dixiecrat days. Those counties have voted 60% plus for Republican candidates in every election for the past 20 years.

There is no issue there. We have a lot of valid points in the election but we blow it when we keep bringing up those Florida counties.

It makes it a lot easier to dismiss a legitimate case by citing one that holds no water.

I was just about to post something to that effect. There may be some legitimate complaints of election fraud here, but the fact that those counties went for Bush doesn't prove anything--those counties all have a lot more in common with Alabama than with Miami. Let's definitely be excited that it may not be over after all, but let's not jump the gun. Here's hoping some of this stuff turns out to be legit...

I feel there are times this board is going a little over the top regarding the election. Fraud or not, the fact that we couldn't put away the 'worst President in history' still bothers me.

Hell, with as badly as a lot of those rural counties have done under President Bush, we should have won them by enough that no amount of election fraud could make it look otherwise. We just need to frame our message better next time.

If we can get even 5-10% of people who voted for Bush to wake up and realize that the Democratic Party best represents their interests we will take back power. We can even do it and frame the 'moral' debate in far better terms. Barrak Obama pointed the way in his speech at the convention.

When you can add as many votes as you want via computer, that's pure bullshit.

fraudulently added by computer. I've seen some suspicious numbers and some that prove absolutely nothing but I haven't seen anything that would for example make up the 400K plus margin in Florida.

No, I don't have prove. I am objecting to you saying that we could win even if there is fraud.
I am saying that to suggest that one can win despite fraud if one tries hard enough is stupid.
How are you going to win if there is fraud?
No matter how hard you try, if there is fraud, the other side can always get more votes than you. If you switch 5 % people to your side, if there is fraud, computer can just switch them back. How do you propose one can win if there is fraud?
:eyes:

It is possible to win in such convincing fashion that the other side's efforts to defraud the election don't do any good. The exit polls as they were had us ahead by a fair amount in just about all the swing states, but imagine how much sooner the firestorm might have started if we're winning in a true popular landslide according to all polls and then lose the actual election. At that point the questions start immediately. There's nothing you can do to stop the other side from attempting fraud (if indeed that's what happened), but you can win by enough to make it staggeringly obvious that that's what happened, and make them look silly for it to boot.

have a hard time convincing he won. But let's be realistic, shell we?
It's never going to happen.
:eyes:

I'm just talking about a convincing enough victory (say, 55-60%, which, if we can start winning over a lot of those rural white voters, is not at all out of the question) to make any possible efforts to cheat look ridiculous.

computers are changed before the last hour of voting.

If when the computer reaches 32,000 for Kerry, it automatically goes
back to 1.

Now go look at the graphs on the home page.

And explain to me how the paper ballots , that is the ones which were
counted, show a landslide for Kerry, while the e voting machines consistently showed 5% and more for the murderer in the WH.

Dont congratulate each other for backing each other up, since neither
of you apparently have looked or understood the reports/graphs on the home page

There's a reason I have a pretty low number of posts on here. I basically left towards the most heated part of the primary season, after I got tired of getting insulted and having my head bitten off every time I suggested something anybody here disagreed with. I figured I'd try joining another conversation, hoping maybe some people here had matured since then. My mistake.

Anyway, I'll say again, I'm not saying no fraud occurred. I'm saying, despite party registration numbers, those are conservative areas. If there was in fact fraud here, it looks like it's starting to be looked into, and it will come out. But the fact in itself that counties in Northern Florida went for Bush (and it's not mostly e-voting machines that I've seen complaints about, by the way, but standard vote-counting computer programs that may be easy to hack into--the e-voting machines were mostly in wealthier, more-populated areas) doesn't prove anything. Let's focus on putting together a strong case, if there's one to be made, and see if there's really a story here.

you would need to examine the programming code of the machines used. Simple enough, right?

Except the companies that own them will not allow it.

why don't you ask them to prove it wasn't fraud?

good luck.
dp

have paper trail.

is that any election official or poll worker in a tiny little precinct will obviously have access to blank optical-scan ballots -- and it would easy enough to just sit in the back and fill in ovals on the percentage of the ballots you need to make them match up to what the "central tabulator" was programmed to say, then simply shred or burn the old ones Who is gonna know, except that one dishonest man or woman?

It's easy enough to come up with about 100 ways to cheat, when you think about it and we're not even that devious around this site. There has to be a better way! Even if you got a paper receipt at an e-voting machine, who is to say that the machine's not printing a fake receipt for you to see and some second roll of cheater votes to use for any auditing that may occur?

This isn't new. People have been cheating or bullying a win in some kind of vote going back for thousands of years.

then later changed.

Not so fast. Don't be so sure the North counties went for Bush.

We were elated at HQ


We expected a landslide in flroida for Kerry...and then it began to turn...

now if it didnt turn by more votes than were in the county, or more
votes than ever existed...ok

BUT it did turn by more votes than existed. So dont you be so fast on the negative.

I'm not saying Bush unquestionably won those counties. I'm saying the apparent fact that he did is in no way proof of election fraud, given the cultural and demographic information available on them.

.

cultural and demographic information available on these counties? It might help me take your opinion more seriously.

I mean really - does anyone keep track of old (and I do mean old) Dixiecrat voters? Most of the southern state folks I know (even the older ones) have switched their allegiance (and registry) to the GOP over the years, dating back to when the GOP started the "God, Gays and Guns" push back in the 80s.

So, under your logic, I am supposed to believe that out of all the southern states, Northern Florida voters are the only ones who want to hang on to their Dixiecrat/(D) label? Pardon me, but I'm not buying that.

One representative county:
Dixie County
Population 13,982
77.5% Registered Dems, 15.0% Registered Republicans
Bush: 4,433 Kerry: 1,959

88% White
19 people per square mile
Zero metropolitan area
53% male, 17% over 65

That is EXACTLY the kind of rural county in Northern Florida that would be likely to have a lot of Dixiecrats. I can look up the numbers on the others if you want, but that's the kind of demographic we're dealing with.

A great deal of older voters here in the South don't bother to change their voter registration, they just keep voting Republican. I know people in rural North Carolina who went to register as Republicans and were told that they wouldn't be able to find Republican candidates in their local elections. So no, you are NOT supposed to believe that Northern Florida is the only area in the South in which Dixiecrats hold onto their registration, you are supposed to believe that it happens frequently in the South.

But it is a nice deflection. Kudos.

The question remains: can you give me hard facts and/or statistics that support the idea that Democratic-registered but Republican-voting folks exist en masse throughout the south. Specific locations, counties, etc., please. For one, I'm sure some exist. But since you're even more sure of it than I am, and it seems a very important argument to you vis a vis the north Florida results, I think that the onus is on you to prove it.

Simple enough, and it sounds fair to me. If you do and you're right (supplying facts, figures, links, etc.) then I'll concede.

But not until then. :-)

I can't give you an exact number of registered Democrats who vote Republican, but I can tell you there's a great number of them. By way of evidence, take a look at North Carolina's voter registration numbers (this is all at sboe.state.nc.us). 48% registered Democrats, 34% Republicans, 18% Independent as of October 2003 (the gap has probably narrowed a bit since then, but that's the most recent they have). For Republicans to be getting 52% in statewide elections, as Burr did, either a HUGE majority of independents would have to be swinging their way, or there'd have to be a substantial (not huge, but substantial) number of Democrats voting Republican. The same would hold true for Dole in 2002--and for Bush to win with big margins like he has in 2000 and 2004, he'd have to have a lot of crossover voters. Same with Bob Dole in 2000, when the margin of registered voters in the state was even bigger. There are other states in the South that still have more registered Democrats that go for Republicans by wide margins. Just given all this, it's practically impossible that pretty big numbers of rural, conservative Democrats aren't voting Republican in statewide and federal elections.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=31320&mesg_id=31325&page=
teach1st posted this:

I recently looked at CNN (altered) exit polls to see how Democrats voted for Kerry in Southern states. I seem to remember that in most of these states, Republicans voted for Bush at 90% or higher rates.

According to CNN exit polls, Southern state Democrats voted this way for Kerry:

Alabama 92%
Arkansas 82%
Florida 85%
Georgia 87%
Kentucky 71%
Louisiana 78%
Mississippi 85%
North Carolina 84%
South Caroline 92%
Tennessee 90%
Texas 87%
Virginia 92%
West Virginia 69%

if it's true.

at about 6 PM voting turned (I suggest when the nazis saw they were losing).

You don't find that odd?

Well then let me tell you, you're in the minority here

but ok - you're entitled to your opinion , even if you are new to
DU and espousing the republican spin.

It's people who voted Democratic in 2000. Still can't prove anything, but increases of 300% for Bush and decreases of 60% for Kerry look awfully strange even with the gay marriage issue.

In Cuyahoga County, Ohio (location of of Cleveland and Akron):


........................# Registered
Precinct................voters.........# votes cast..........% diff
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAYFIELD................2764...........3145..................113.78%
MIDDLEBURG HEIGHTS......12173..........14854.................122.02%
MORELAND HILLS..........2990...........4616..................154.38%
BEDFORD.................9942...........14465.................145.49%
BEDFORD HEIGHTS.........8142...........13512.................165.95%
OAKWOOD VIL.............2746...........7099..................258.52%
HIGHLAND HILLS VIL......760............8822..................1160.79% (holy crap!)
WOODMERE VIL............558............8854..................1586.73% (holy crap!)

It's a program.2 new white votes per non-white new vote for Bush

They needed a sure thing and they needed to not have to spend much time
double-checking it.

What I'm saying is that if they want to hide the stealing in plain sight, as many people
are saying - hide it in lots of little places - but what they need to do that is a master
algorithym, so that one thing doesn't mess up and raise a red flag - like say if the
number of white voters exceeded the number possible.

On election night, they don't have much time - they can't take the chance of plugging
in some numbers here and there, only to create an unbelieveable pattern .

If you look at the actual numbers of Bush's excess numbers 59.7 million in 2004 - 50.5
million in 2000 - that's 9.2 million voters. 6.1 million are white people and 3.1 million are
non-white. That means that Bush increased his minority vote by 69% which is bizarre -
but one has to figure that number out.(See my previous thread entitled Bush's Minority
Vote increased by 69%.)

Just looking at the exit polls, Bush's 12% minority share doesn't look that significant.

But if there wasn't a master code, then the chance of increasing the minority vote to
something that starts to really stand out increases dramatically because he had so few
minority voters to begin with.

So I think they had to make sure that the percent of white voters to
non-white voters was 2/3 - so if you add a few voters from a heavily minority district,
the code adds double that number of voters somewhere else in the system in a whiter
district. So that the "balance" is maintained because most people will just look at the national figures.

This also leads me to believe that part of the voter suppression in minority districts and
voter accommodation in white areas was, in part, to minimize the extent to which this
vote padding or flipping is done.

If there's fewer minority voters, you can maintain the percentage easier.One of the
reasons why I wonder about this is that even though most of Bush's voters are white, a
lot of whites also vote for Kerry so why aren't white voters in liberal districts being
suppressed? Because the system is programmed to give Bush even more white votes.

Maybe I 'm way off base here, but that 2:1 white to non-white ratio really caught my
attention.

http://boe.cuyahogacounty.us/BOE/results/currentresults1.htm

Bay Village: 13,710 registered voters; 18,663 ballots cast
Beachwood: 9,943 registered voters; 13,939 ballots cast
Bedford: 9,942 registered voters; 14,465 ballots cast
Bedford Heights: 8,142 registered voters; 13,512 ballots cast
Brooklyn: 8,016 registered voters; 12,303 ballots cast
Brooklyn Heights: 1,144 registered voters; 1,869 ballots cast
Chagrin Falls (VIL): 3,557 registered voters; 4,860 ballots cast
Cuyahoga Heights: 570 registered voters; 1,382 ballots cast
Fairview Park: 13,342 registered voters; 18,472 ballots cast
Highland Hills: 760 registered voters; 8,822 ballots cast
Independence: 5,735 registered voters; 6,226 ballots cast
Mayfield (VIL): 2,764 registered voters; 3,145 ballots cast
Middleburg Heights: 12,173 registered voters; 14,854 ballots cast
North Olmsted: 25,794 registered voters; 25,887 ballots cast
Oakwood (VIL): 2,746 registered voters; 7,099 ballots cast
Olmsted Falls: 6,538 registered voters; 7,328 ballots cast
Pepper Pike: 5,131 registered voters; 6,479 ballots cast
Rocky River: 16,600 registered voters; 20,070 ballots cast
Solon (Ward 6): 2,292 registered voters; 4,300 ballots cast
South Euclid: 16,902 registered voters; 16,917 ballots cast
Strongsville (Ward 3): 7,806 registered voters; 12,108 ballots cast
University Heights: 10,072 registered voters; 11,982 ballots cast
Warrensville Heights: 10,562 registered voters; 15,039 ballots cast
Woodmere (VIL): 558 registered voters; 8,854 ballots cast

of...dare i say it...FRAUD? how can a county have more votes than registered voters?

I see it

Has Olberman written anything about this?

Then we can get media coverage too!

I THINK I AM REALLY ON TO SOMETHING HERE - could someone with stars or a moderator please read my post? Surely the DU’ers in Ohio (if no one else) can get excited about this!!

We all could ignite the entire blogosphere with this story about the PUBLIC HEARINGS regarding counting the votes in Ohio (below).

If so, our goal ought to be to round up 500, 10,000 or 25,000 disgruntled voters and Democrats to show up on Saturday and Monday to attend these hearings and to protest outside! If enough people were emailed and show up, this will BREAK this story wide open (despite the doubters). Oh, and just think of how much fun creating the slogans for the signs would be! Diebold and ES&S – together, hijacking democracy one vote at a time!

Ask yourself this question, do you really believe in your guts that the election was stolen? If so, for the love of liberty, WE CAN FORCE THIS ISSUE! We should change our thinking here – shouldn’t the burden of proof lie on the Election Officials and poll workers -- and not on the voter? What do they have to hide or lose with transparency and a new canvas of the votes…hmmmm?

If we want these provisional ballots counted and the machines investigated, then there is NOT going to be enough time to wait around for any spontaneous riot, brave investigative reporter or a whistleblower at Diebold – not before the Powers That Be certify this election – so we had better get some major news coverage NOW.

We all have great energy and ideas, and a lot of suspicion, mounting charts/graphs, and organizations that have been collecting testimony on innumerable sites. ALL OF THIS MOUNTING EVIDENCE AND ENERGY HAS GOT TO COME TOGETHER.

Q. What have we been lacking? What are we waiting for?
A. The message is dispersed. We need to take this out of the blogosphere -- with the legitimacy that public hearings will bring. There hasn’t been a designated time and place to gather our focus.

Again, what we need is a time and place to rally together in front of cameras.

*SO, LET’S FOCUS ON THESE OHIO HEARINGS. There are already six voting groups holding the hearings. If we get all the right people in these rooms in Ohio (and several thousand chanting outside in the parking lots)* – then we will have the synergy required to really force this issue.

HERE IS MY SUGGESTION: every single one of us on DU take a few minutes each to blast every liberal site, news agency, Congressman, party lawyer, and voting protection group with:
1. the link to indyvoter.org
2. the time, locations and dates of these hearings (below).

We will especially want MICHAEL MOORE to show up with his cameras and for BEV HARRIS of blackboxvoting.org to show up to hear the testimony.
And don’t forget: dailykos, buzzflash, Election Protection Program, commoncause, Kerry’s lawyer brother, etc. – I have a list of about 40+ groups I can put out if anyone’s interested.

Couldn’t we find a way to organize an AD BUY in the local Ohio papers asking for testimony and to tell when/where these hearing are going to be?

Here’s the story (already posted elsewhere) but even though I am tired, depressed, etc. -- I really feel this post of mine and the Ohio hearings deserve responses, more attention (its own thread, front page.)
__________________________________________
Go to <http://indyvoter.org > for the full page but here's an excerpt:

CALL FOR PUBLIC HEARINGS IN OHIO!!!

They might have conceded - but we haven't conceded our right to have our votes count.

The Ohio Citizens Alliance for Secure Elections (CASE-OH), Common Cause Ohio, Ohio Election Reform Now, Columbus Institute for
Contemporary Journalism, WVKO Radio, and the Columbus League of Pissed Off Voters are calling for public hearings to investigate voting irregularities and voter suppression in Ohio surrounding the 2004 General Election.

THIS IS A NONPARTISAN STATEWIDE CALL TO ACTION. VOTERS AND POLL WORKERS FROM AROUND THE STATE ARE INVITED TO TESTIFY.

Saturday November 13, 1-4 PM
New Faith Baptist Church
955 Oak Street
Columbus, Ohio 43205

Monday November 15, 6-9 PM,
Auditorium (Meeting Room A)
Courthouse, 373 S. High St.
Columbus, OH