Are we are about to witness history???

Slowly but surely this voter fraud story is growing.
More evidence literally pours in by the hour.
News organizations are sniffing around everywhere like sharks in bloody waters.
The republican party is about to finally get caught in the act and it will bring them to thier knees. It may take them decades to earn the publics trust again.
History books in school will devote chapters to the fixing of election 2004.
Our grandchildren will ask us about what it was like to live during this time.
People like Karl Rove will be led away in handcuffs doing the "perp" walk.

I am really starting to visualize this. I really am starting to believe this.

but I'm not believing yet

...still, I hope you don't mind if I skip that "holding my breath" thing?

...but we should "calm down" for the security of the nation. To "change things" now would just be divisive. And what will all those "moral issue" voters think? I mean, if we had to leave, we've got lots of nations we could go to. Where are they gonna go? Saudi Arabia? Pakistan? Actually, that's not a bad idea...

My spirits have been down today. I've emailed Ida Briggs and have gotten no reply. I've tried to keep focused and angry but can't.

I pray that you are right.

They had 4 years to perfect this steal.

Shows that they fucked up their "steal" too. Rove is an evil dumbass.

Hello all,

This my first DU post, and there for I can not post a new thread. If some one can post this one for me it would be much appreciated.

As all of you recall since the Redskins became the Redskins in 1933, the result of the team's final home game before the presidential election has correctly predicted the White House winner. If the Redskins win, the incumbent party wins. If they lose, the incumbent party is ousted.

Clinton Portis (of the Washington Redskins) celebrated the apparent winning touchdown with a leap into the end zone, capping a 43-yard reception that gave the Redskins a one-point lead with 2:35 to play.

Oops. Scratch that. Flag on the play.

Receiver James Thrash was whistled for illegal motion, a call Thrash didn't understand and one that Washington coach Joe Gibbs called "an absolute mystery."

Redskins Lose To Green Bay, 28-14


I believe the pattern will continue with the 2004 elections. Bush has been given the "victory", but wait there's a FLAG ON THE PLAY.

With all the irregularities, and suspicions, I think in one month truth will prevail!

Thanks.

especially after I saw that pitcher out stumping for the AntiPres.

That's right, more Bush masks sold than Kerry masks. Sorry to contradict you, but thats the best evidence there is that the election was fair.

You can't argue against the Halloween mask prediction.

The Boston Red Sox win caused a tear in the fabric of the universe. All curses and superstitions are now null and void. Everything starts over from scratch.

beaten, down 0-3 to the New York Money (er yankees), cursed, left for dead, the Red Sox went on to SWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEP the rest of the playoffs to win the WS for the first time in 86 years. this is the year of miracles.

this is the year of miracles.
this is the year of miracles.
this is the year of miracles.
this is the year of miracles.
don't forget it.

Yes, the year of miracles.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

As a longtime football fan, myself, I love your sports metaphors! :)

It's third and long, but can the Democratic team score a touchdown with a Hail Mary pass...?

4 more years and the Dems will never win again. That is why we cannot let them get away with this - even if we lose this Kerry thing, we have to prove enough fraud to insure safe, fair, CONSISTENT voting methods before the '06 elections. The more races that get "thrown" the less our chances of ever pushing through the reform that is essential to maintain our democracy!

if they get caught, it will be years from now when it won't make any difference. and even if someone is caught now, you can be damn sure nothing will ever move far enough up the chain to change anything at this point - there will be offered sacrificial lambs at the local level, like precinct heads etc. and junior commission, but no one in the administration will be muddy with this. they're just too good at this kind of stuff. and those that do fall on their swords will be rewarded with high paying "consultant" jobs and board positions.....

from ohio-democrats.org:

"► Two Democrats and Two Republicans sit on each County Board of Elections. Tabulations of the votes will be done in a bi-partisan manner. Only if there is a tie vote on the board does the decision go to the Secretary of State."

Which means the two republicans can dispute every democrat vote and the tie will be broken by Blackwell. Sounds promising!

I read these posts and it angers me that I open each with the hope of seeing something definitive. They all seem to say "just wait it will happen"..Proof PLEASE PLEASE prove these allegations


RedTail Wolf

The more we wail on and on that we have conclusive proof of fraud, the more we discredit ourselves. We have funny looking statistics, and certain sources saying there is fraud for sure. But if there's proof, we don't have it right now.

There is no proof it was NOT stolen. In fact, all the proof so far, points to something very weird happening. Surely you don't think nothing weird happened? If you don't I've got some ocean front property in Arizona you can buy, cheap! Hahahahaha

Our most credible claim right now comes from the exit polls themselves. THe Dem counties in Florida going for Bush means nothing. Everything else is circumstantial. My belief that there is fraud to be exposed lies in Jeff Fisher going to the FBI and Bev Harris at BBV. I am not 100% sure that either of them are credible. I hope they are, but I have my suspicions.

I have my suspicions about anyone who comes on DU telling us that what we are doing is wrong.

You even claim we have evidence of irregularities with the polling data, so what's your problem? Florida 2000 took months for the whole thing to shake out, and you think we should quit just as we are getting rolling?

Three years here have taught me that when we are getting close to something we start getting fly-by-night posters streaking the forum. Not too surprising to see so many, again, eh?

Are you calling me a "fly by night" poster? Do you realize that ABC just shot our story to hell because pepole are on the wrong track here? I'm sorry I tried to save you from your own stupidity.

The effort was in vain, anyway.

ABC shot us down? OMG, not ABC!! Hurray!!

Thanks for that good news. Finally, we are having an impact. ABC shot us down. The People. They are trying to put us in our place, eh?

Bring 'em on. Call ABC and tell them they can shove it where the sun don't shine. That's a good job for you, no?

Back to the Future: Paper Ballots

and scolded them for focusing their story on rabid, out of control misconceptions circulating around the internet, instead of doing any real investigative journalism.

Thanks to people like you, the media can now call us "conspiracy theorists" for propagating obviously false stories. You know how they are. They will focus on the most questionnable part of the story and ignore the rest, even if the rest makes sense.

This is a classic example of how Democrats have to focus on message discipline. But it's too late now.

This is fun.

You scolded them for focusing their story on rabid, out of control misconceptions....instead of doing any real investigative journalism. Just what they've been doing for years and years. Thanks for letting them know. I'm sure they will stop and listen to you.
Thanks to people like you, Like me? I'll take that as a compliment, thank you. But really, I've very little to do with all this.

You know how they are. They will focus on the most questionnable part of the story and ignore the rest, even if the rest makes sense.Ya got that right.

But it's too late now. For years and years, the media has screwed with the Dem's message. But now, we are taking it into our own hands. This is our new message: We will no longer sit back and let the media tell us how and what to think. Thank gawd some of us have learned to pay the media no-never-mind. Join us, Jonnie, you'll be glad you did.

I never said there was no fraud!!! All I said is that if we spread false rumors about it, no one will believe us when we tell the truth!

Is that what was itching me a minute ago?

So, what's the truth? Eh?

Sport, we are in the process of discovering the truth and in so doing we examine every piece of evidence, discuss it, test it. Florida is a hot-bed of evidence and it is being examined. It really does no good for anyone here to start throwing out any evidence, as you seem prone to do. Just relax, Sport, sit back and enjoy the ride as we dismantle the BBV.

Just speculation. More shit is going on in Ohio. And North Carolina. We're not gonna find evidence from our computers, so we shouldn't be going to news organizations with rumors that aren't true, and obfuscating the message. All we have to say is that we want a recount because security on central tabulators is non-existant and they can be hacked, and the exit polls show Kerry won.

Why get side tracked by hype when all you need to do is push a clear, simple message that makes sense?

But no, you run around like a chicken telling us the sky is falling.

You've a good message, stick to it. Take your own advice.

All I want to do is correct misinformation that people seem to be believing in. You can easily debunk these Florida theories, as ABC just did. Things like that will kill the story before it even gets off the ground.

If we focus on what we know, instead of insinuations, we have a much more solid story.

That doesn't mean ours is strong enough to do it; I'm just saying that it is unlikely we will ever find direct evidence of criminal behavior, but that fact in itself should not stop us from investigating.

We are witnessing history in the making. We don't know how it will all play out. The important thing is that the people are hungry for the truth, we have come to value our vote and then to have it trashed like this is going to force a change. Big change. Who knows, there may not be any Parties left standing as we knew them when this is over.

The only thing I am concerned about now is what will the AntiPres and his coven resort to as this threatens to come out? A "terrorist" attack? Maybe that's why it's so important that it's in the hands of the people. Because we will not back down! And that's why it is so important to keep working to get the facts established and get the word out. IMHO

I'm not sure if I hope you're right or not.

While I believe it's highly probably voter fraud happened, while I want for Bush to be impeached or not to even be inaugerated, I'm not sure how I feel about the short-term and long-term implications. Scared? Anxious? Nervous? Hopeful?

Will democracy prevail?

sigh..

Not completely, but damn near.

Maybe it's just because I am having a really shitty day and needed some positive thoughts

Maybe it's because I hang out at DU too much and see new evidence every minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe it's because I saw Olbermans coverage and now CNN is snooping around Ohio...

Jeez.....I'm sorry if this was misleading but I am really starting to believe it.

my but you are optomistic. Could I have some?

I personally emailed on Saturday and Sunday, over 109 separate emails to every person of consequence at the Washington Post, as well as about 12 other national newpapers regarding the Jeff Fisher story on voter manipulations in Florida...and why have we not heard the mainstream press mention it. I then called and emailed every Democratic Senator and Congressman at both their Washington D.C. offices and home offices demanding a revote in the case there is a shred of evidence that all votes were not counted, or in the case of vote fraud or manipulation. I then emailed the same info that went to the papers to the same Senators and Congressman. Then, I emailed the DNC, the AFL-CIO, Moveon, Civil Liberties Union, and about 2 dozen other sites. Then I emailed the same to every person I new or that I found in the past few days that expressed concern. If we all do that, as Jeff Fisher asked in his original call for a REVOTE...believe me, people cannot help but pay attention. The point is that the PEOPLE have to act...they have to display their outrage and non-compliance with pat answers. This potential situation of voter manipulation, if allowed to go on unchallenged, undermines what America is all about. We have to set the example. So, get out there and speak out, email, blog, call everyone and create a fuss. Watergate was nothing compared to this...and what damage it could do for the future of America. Do your civic duty...SPEAK PEOPLE! It is our country and we are the people. Save the Republic by fighting for her. God Bless America. Gail Giles

FRAUD! Welcome to DU ggiles! Excellent work too!

:toast:

Thanks for the support and kind words for my efforts. I should have been studying for my contracts law test...but I am instead spending day and night trying to raise awareness...and then I find you guys. Just like me...enraged and not gonna take any more of it. That is the way we have to be. Lady Liberty needs us to raise her up...to suppport her as she has done that for so many years and asking nothing in return but our confidence and intention to stand up like she does. We have to be the light...on America and for the world.

Everyone all over the world is praying for us to beat this sinister turn in the affairs of America. We have to do our part...turn off the reality TV and realize...this is the best and the craziest reality that we will ever see. We all need to make the phone calls, overwhelm the news organizations with this information and MAKE them deal with it. If the editors are burying this stuff...the biggest story ever perhaps...We have to be the impetus for any and all news sources to break this bigtime. We must be vigilant. We cannot afford to let this go by.

I broke down and cried my heart out when Kerry lost. First I felt ill when I heard that Coburn won in OK...he is busy now chasing down the rampant lesbianism in eastern Oklahoma...what a load of $!$!#$!#...if you get my drift. Now that people have gotten their kicks redoing amendments to the state constitutions that we already had...can we get down to reality here???

I recently read a great biography of Winston Churchill...he was the ONE voice of sanity in keeping the Germans from invading England...he did that with his VOICE folks. It is thought that his radio messages to the world led Hitler to believe they were stronger than they actually were. He is the one thing that saved the world from the spread of Hitler to my birthplace. He was considered a war monger by some...my grandparents. Being a warning light in the coming darkness is not a warmonger. He WAS the light in the darkness, and the only one on at the time...or the one who barked the loudest. It took a while before people listened...but if one voice can do what he achieved and save the Empire...imagine what the likes of thousands and thousands of us can do with our voices, and now we have email, faxes, etc. We CAN DO THIS.

We have to unveil the injustice, that if not dealt with...will forever change the course of history, not only for us, but for the world. Could you ever have believed that America would resort to a semi-facist state? At least Ashcroft resigned today...but I am sure another is taking his place to fill in the holes that Patriot Act I leaves. I have read it and am learning more every day. there are not many holes to fill. We are not only fighting for vote fraud...we are fighting for the very thing that makes America...AMERICA! Everyone around the world is looking to us to validate and defend our right to vote, that we all have the right to vote, unhampered by partisan meddling on the Nov. 2...that is our day...the people's day to speak. We spoke and our voice and our vote was fraudulently taken from us...are we going to lie down and allow that? I WILL NOT! America needs us and we have to defend and fight our own "WAR on TERROR" here in America.


There is a quote in Senator Byrd's book "Losing America", absolutely one of the best books about what is and has been occurring in our country from a 50 year Senator...G.M. Gilbert interviewing Hermann Goering of the "Nuremberg Diary"...as they are discussing how the "common people do not appreciate their leaders for bringing them war and destruction." Goering says,"...But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship." Gilbert points out, "There is one difference, in a democracy the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States, only Congress can declare wars." Goering goes on to chillingly say, "Oh, that is all well and good, but voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is the easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce all the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."


Well...is that not what has happened and what has resulted in the quagmire we are in now? We are not pacifists for wanting to use common sense and wisdom in settling foreign affairs. Just because we are extolling caution does not mean we are easy on terror. We are supposed to use force when we need to, not because we can. The terror that we have been exposed to in this country over the last few years, and which will escalate in the years to come if we do nothing now, will not be terror of bombs...but of words of terror that rip out the heart of America. One that will make one side go against the other. This election is the critical point in history that determines whether we move forward into the twenty-first century, or go backwards to tyranny. Have we come this far, to break the Berlin wall, to undermine the bonds of Apartheid, to de-escalate the nuclear threat, to name only a few...to go back to all out world terror. This salvation of this election from fraud...is part of that. Do we save Iraq and the Middle East from terror only to lose ourselved in the process. Can we not sift the real from the unreal?

We must...or GOD can only save us, if we cannot save ourselves. We must stand up the the fraud in the vote, stand up to the desecration of America, the U.S. Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and for ourselves. We have a strong legacy of standing up for the right things...that is what made us great...and looked up to as the Light on the Hill for all people. Are we to let the light go out and transcend into the abyss at our greatest hour? The TRUTH SHALL SET US FREE! The truth of what has happened on November 2, 2004, and probably happened November 2, 2000, can never happen again! EVER! So, let us create the most intense campaign that our Democracy has ever seen...and stand up for Lady Liberty...and let the light shine for all who seek justice and liberty, and freedom and the ability to know the difference.

We have only a short span of time to achieve the impossible...to create a miracle...to push back the darkness that threatens to swallow us whole, if we do nothing. That is assured. Do not think that if we just go back to our tv programs...this will go away. It will not. If we ever fought for anything, we MUST, we HAVE to fight for this. If not...we will regret it for the rest of our lives, and our childrens, and their children's. Believe it...This is the defining moment and our D-DAY! We must rise to the challenge...move every inch of our beings, to fight for our beliefs and our future. Will the history books one day speak of those that were afraid to raise their voices to save America? We go out and spend trillions saving the world...can we not expend a little energy for AMERICA?

Please hear this message...my whole soul is expending what I feel in my heart. STAND UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR COUNTRY...IT NEEDS YOU...DO NOT FORSAKE IT...USE YOUR VOICE AND YOUR HEARTS TO SAVE AMERICA...SHE HAS BEEN DEALT A TERRIBLE BLOW...SHE NEEDS THE PEOPLE TO SAVE HER. Many have tried to warn us and now we must listen...so to your battle stations...every one...we have an immense job to do...and this is one we cannot afford to lose because we are afraid for our jobs to speak out. Afraid what people will say. Imagine that we save the day...then they will allbe so proud. Think on that...feel proud...do not allow the very principles upon which our great nation began. As Senator Byrd says, "NOW is the time to regain the Constitution that our forefathers so wisely left, a time to return to the values and principles that made America great. Too many have us have gone passively along, aiding and abetting a dangerous process."

Please, let us stand up for AMERICAN VALUES...for what Democracy and Freedom is all about. THE PEOPLE...MUST SPEAK. God Bless this great nation in its darkest hour...and deliver us from evil. Help us to work together to achieve what we were meant to...the American Dream is not a fraud. Our right to vote and be counted is a basic right. DEFEND THAT RIGHT! I implore you.. Thanks for listening...Gail Giles of OK. :)

One small favor.

Periods ....

Paragraphs

Thank you so much!!!!

My eyes have just hit 40 and I'm having to wear reading glasses for the first time... driving me crazy it's now much harder to read unless there is white space.

Thus, periods, paragraphs.

Much obliged!!

Sorry. I did send in paragraphs. And as far as periods...I write how I think...unfortunately.PERIOD! ;) GG Legal Ferrett

I got chills reading your post. I feel the same way. This is it. The ancestors who wrote our constitution are with us on this, and they are pissed!!!!!!!!!!!Watch out AntiPres and all EvilDoers to our Democracy. There is a new Sheriff in town, and the paddy wagon is on its way. You can run, but you cannot hide.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Thanks for the great welcome...I will warn you though...when I get to writing....I go all out...no short comments for me...sorry to say...I just feel so compelled to do something...that I am not holding back. This is the most important thing in our lives folks...this is the turning point for America...so let us get our tails busy...I am not giving up...Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor...Was it over when Coburn ran the girls out of the bathrooms in east OK...NO!...It is never too late...It is about time...and it is...guess what...our time! :) So let us get the move on...MOVEON...Get it? MOVE IT...CREATE IT...MAKE IT A HAPPENING. What a kick if we all could save America...here and now...gets me pumped...I have no end of energy...somehow I am keeping a 4.0 average at school with a full load...and still out there creating havoc on the web, the phone lines, and anywhere I can get the wrod out. UNITE AND FIGHT. RAh! RAH! RAH! I am the "Legal Ferret", ferreting out the truth and learning more than I ever wanted to know...and learning so much about our history and our present in the process. Go for it...We have nothing to lose but EVERYTHING if we do nothing...:) Them is fightin' words...UNITE AND FIGHT FOR THE RIGHT TO VOTE AND EXPRESS OUR LITTLE SELVES. Gotta get some sleep...so I can wake up tomorrow to more good news...that the NEWS is hearing about this and doing something to WAKE EVERYONE UP! So youall get busy while I rest... just a little. :) Gail Giles

We have the power. It's right at our fingertips, literally.

Use it or lose it!

Thanks Gail.

Wow, your efforts make me look like a true piker. Keep up the great work!

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

Thanks for doing all that.

That is wonderful of you! Great Job!

I have heard from a reliable source it is cheap spagetti code....that in and of itself is sufficient to grow teeth.

The entire software could and should have been modeled. Where is the software documentation that goes with this?

The code is top secret. No one can look at the code except the machine suppliers. I think several cases seeking to have a look-see at the code have been turned down by the courts.

If it's cheap code, as you say, it is easily manipulated.

Paper Ballots: Back to the Future!

These machines run Windoze, don't they? 'Nuff said.

This would certainly be one hell of a comeback. You know Kerry doesn't need to do anything, if the Ohio count comes up for him, he wins. Since the votes were cast prior to his concession/withdrawl.

I wonder, though. If this fraud happened, and I think it probably did but am keeping an open mind, isn't it likely they'd do it so that there IS no concrete evidence?

Whatever. Even if no one is ever caught or convicted, we CAN'T have elections like this again. The fact is, the machines CAN be hacked, and if they haven't been yet, they will. People MUST NOT be disenfranchised -- kept standing in line for hours and then given easily discarded provisional ballots. People's ballots must not be thrown away because they're wet, marked in the wrong ink, or signed in a slightly unusual way. We need major, major work here, and frankly I doubt if the R's in congress anything will change.

Which is why I think we have to keep pushing this issue and not cave when people call us conspiracy theorists. It's about more than this election.

and now I'm wondering if that's even a good idea? I have no idea of that envelope was ever opened and my ballot fed through the machine.
:mad:

thing is....once you suspect the fairness of the counting, you suspect the fairness of ALL the counting

SmokingJacket wrote:

<< If this fraud happened, and I think it probably did but am keeping an open mind, isn't it likely they'd do it so that there IS no concrete evidence? >>

Nixon didn't cover his tracks too well in the Watergate scandal. Republicans tend to get overconfident, thinking their R buddies will cover for them all the time. Which they do. But at least there are honest people out here willing to expose their crimes, whenever possible.

We are witnessing the attempt to destroy democracy in America.

That, in itself, is historical.

If there was indeed fraud--and the rather selective numbers I've seen so far stink to high heaven--then BushCo are not the only ones involved. This will have gone deep, affecting House and Senate votes, too, leaving (potentially) complicit the very people who would have to vote on impeachment. Perhaps nationwide.

They will not impeach themselves. I have no doubt that the evidence is already being cleaned up, and thanks to the damned machines that may be an easy job. Our Rs will instead spend their time covering their own @$$es.

There are an awful lot of machines out there, though. I hope a coherent and statistically significant audit can be performed.

Nader For President 2004
P.O. Box 18002 - Washington, DC 20036 - www.votenader.org

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
November 9, 2004 For Further Information:
Kevin Zeese 202.265.4000

PRESS ADVISORY
Ralph Nader Holds Press Conference in Washington, DC 1:00 PM, November 10, 2004
Was Every Vote Counted Accurately?
Nader/Camejo Goes Forward with Hand Recount in New Hampshire
Washington, DC: Independent Presidential Candidate Ralph Nader will be holding a press conference at 1:00 in at 1616 P Street, NW, 7th Floor. The press conference will focus on widespread reports of voting problems that raise questions about vote counting. The United States needs to face up to serious shortcomings in its electoral process so that we can have trust in the results of the vote.

Nader/Camejo has requested a hand recount of the vote in New Hampshire because of reports of anomalies favoring President Bush in towns that used the Diebold AccuVote optical scan machines. A hand recount will either rule out the possibility of machine error or show a discrepancy in the Diebold machine and the actual vote—either way voters need to know. To review the request for a hand recount in New Hampshire visit www.VoteNader.org. Similar inexplicable results have been found in other states, including Ohio. Nader has called on John Kerry to demand that every vote be counted accurately. His campaign has remained strangely silent on the matter.

This election has highlighted the need for electoral reform including federal standards for federal offices and non-partisan administration of the elections from ballot access, through debate participation and to how the vote is cast and counted.

Where: 1616 P Street, NW
Washington, DC 20036


When: 1:00 PM, November 10, 2004

For more on this issue visit www.VoteNader.org

I'm not a Nader fan, but I can't seem to find anything reporting whether the New Hampshire recount is going forward or not. Anything that gets more press coverage on the election fraud will help keep this issue alive. Maybe we are about to witness history. I refuse to concede.

I do not know anything about the Accu-vote optical scanners but I am quite familiar with the Diebold touch-screens (I am from GA). This makes me very nervous as it seems we have almost everything riding on the NH hand count - for if they fail to prove inconsistencies there it is going to be very difficult to get anyone's attention on any other front.

Are the scanners the ones that can allow someone access to the machines from a remote location?

Thanks.

well, the scanner tabulating pc-thingy is actually a Windows PC, which, just like any other pc, can get hooked up onto the INTERNET, thus making it highly risky. also, i remember on some news show a while back (in march), they had howard dean as the guest host and a guest on there showed how easy it was to just open up the table (it looked like an excel chart) and just change the numbers and the results of the simulated election with a few keystrokes.

with all the evidence a real journalist will have hard facts to make the case, becoming the next great one.

the servers that saved America!!

that Rove, hoping that things MIGHT go Bush's way, held off on his call to rig things until he saw the exit polls going Kerry's way. Then, poof, he took a chance, said to whoever 'u know what to do', got the ball rolling, and the rest..is theft.

Let's hope so!

fabricational theory, that I pray will come to pass!!!!!!

there are some EXACT things that happened, as cougar mentioned, and they need brought up, but the theories do no good without sound points behind them.

I'm so excited about the NH recount, I would just burst out laughing if it showed Kerry won by 25,000 more votes than was shown...

wouldn't that be GREAT?

what i'm hoping for is to give new hampshire to BUSH. why?

1) it shuts the damn republicans up
2) it exposes the problem with the machines, which is also used in FLORIDA and (maybe?)OHIO ::shocker::
2a) what that means is that if ohio and florida were to end up having manual recounts as well, the TRUE WINNER (go, go! go johnny go! go!) will be shown.

Bush is an idiot - we're gonna win in a landslide.
Bush lied about (name all the instances) - we're gonna win in a landslide.
Bush lost all 3 debates - we're gonna win in a landslide.
Bush (or any other administration repuke) is a criminal - we're gonna win in a landslide.
This is the "smoking gun" - we're gonn win in a landslide.
Etc.
Etc.

Excuse me if I don't hold my breath or for a fucking single moment believe any of this crap any more.

While your image of the Conservative power brokers engaging in some "Man Love" at a State run facility like Folsom makes me grin, I think that its time to realize that no matter what the reason, "They" will get away with it again...

The DNC leadership has proven again that they have not the "Marbles" (sorry to use a male vernacular term here) to contest anything.

The big question for those of us living Blue should now be, is Dr. Dean the guy who can give the party the vision and does he have the Ca-hones to be a true leader and not just a ranter.

I am optimistic if we have leaders like Howard Dean and Hilary Clinton running the show...

Now, we just need a Bubba like Bill to take away some of the Redneck vote...

Yet i'm still holding on to the tiniest shread of hope. My family thinks I'm crazy. So i've stayed silent on the issue, and let Keith Olbermann do the talking.

I'm a new user, and apologize if this is not the best forum for this question. But has anyone seen anything on what voting machines or system will be used in Iraq?

I've been wondering why the admin. seems so not worried about the outcome.