Count Every Vote - Sign The Petition

Americans deserve to know that their votes will count - and will be counted. I signed up as a citizen co-sponsor of the Count Every Vote Act of 2005. Please visit http://whatcounts.com/t?ctl=C4514A:36C064A and sign the petition.

Recent Email from Hillary Clinton:
Dear Friends,

Thank you so much for signing up as a citizen co-sponsor of the Count Every Vote Act of 2005. With your support and that of more than 116,000 people all across the country, we have made substantial progress in recent weeks.

But, even with all the energy and action you have helped generate, we still have an uphill climb. It doesn't appear that the administration and the Republican leadership are as concerned as we are about ensuring people's right to vote.

We need to gather even more momentum -- forward this email to your friends and ask them to become a citizen co-sponsor at:

http://www.friendsofhillary.com/CountEveryVote

Isn't it ironic that at the same time the White House is welcoming elections in other parts of the world, we still have to fight to make democracy real here at home!

But fight we will. And, in the weeks since the Count Every Vote Act of 2005 was introduced by Senators Boxer, Lautenberg, Kerry and myself, your personal commitment has helped build our momentum:

Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT), ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has joined us as a co-sponsor. We welcome this support from one of the Senate's most distinguished advocates for civil and constitutional rights.

The New York Times (February 22, 2005) described the Count Every Vote Act as "the gold standard for election reform." Among the provisions of the bill it singled out as worthy of note were: "Paper records for every vote cast...restrictions on political activity by voting machine manufacturers...and minimum standards for the number of voting machines per precinct." As the Times stated, our bill would also prevent states from using "onerous identification requirements to turn away eligible voters..."

Other organizations have begun to mobilize support for the Count Every Vote Act. I am particularly proud of the support we have received from The Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law and People for the American Way, two groups that have been at the forefront of working to protect every American's right to vote.

Most important of all, we now have more than 116,000 citizen co-sponsors from every state in the union - people who have joined to work together, to insist that we get action on election reform! And we continue to get more co-sponsors every day.
As I look at the record of this Republican Congress, I know that our task is not going to be easy. But I also know that, together, we can make a difference. We can insist that the right of every American to vote - and to have our votes counted - is fundamental to our democracy. We are going to keep organizing, keep building support and demanding action - and we are going to succeed.

Please Forward to a Friend!

Sincerely,


Hillary Rodham Clinton

P.S. Our whole family deeply appreciates all the kind words of encouragement concerning Bill's recent surgery. He's doing well and is very moved by your well wishes.

This bill is falsely titled.

People are jumping on the bandwagon supporting it and thinking it will fix the problems with e-voting.

It won't.

This bill only calls for a Paper Audit Trail, not a Paper ballot. What people don't realize is that your vote only gets counted if there's a recount.

To call this the "count every vote" act is insane. It's really about counting 2% of the votes. It should be called the "Count 2% of the votes act"

having this bill would be better than nothing but it is not that great, it is only going to create a false sense of security while your votes are stolen right under your nose.

For an explanation of why only 2% of the votes would get counted with this bill, see this article:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/0313-ballots.shtml

Hillary Clinton was raised Republican, is a Young Republicans member and a converted corporate-Democrat for HER political gain ONLY. Hillary will jump onto any bandwagon for a free ride... She's no less poison than Zell Miller. This bill is poison for election reform and it's intent is only to advance the political aspirations of a phony.

and more.

Hillary is just trying to be the "hero" here.

Boxer doesn't understand enough about the problems, and neither do the others (much as I love Boxer), or they are just playing dumb--that much is clear.

WHO IS GOING TO EDUCATE THEM? Notice that CONYERS hasn't endorsed it. What does HE say?

Look how this thing reads, for Pete's sake (and notice it's listed to "Friends of Hillary")--This ISN'T ABOUT YOU, HILLARY!!!!!!!!

IT'S ABOUT US, AND OUR RIGHT TO VOTE AND HAVE THOSE VOTES COUNTED.

*********
Look at this text:

"I believe that Americans deserve to know that their votes will count - and will be counted. That's why I am signing up as a citizen co-sponsor of the Count Every Vote Act of 2005.

It's time we have:

Verified paper ballots for every vote cast by electronic voting machines;
Uniform provisional ballots so states will count and treat votes equally; and
Standards to ensure equal access to voting machines and election personnel.

American democracy requires fair, accurate and credible elections!"
********

Electronic voting machines? (NO! Let's get rid of them!)

Uniform PROVISIONAL ballots? (No! Let's get rid of these too--proven a BAD BAD BAD idea!)

"Equal access to voting machines and personnel"--WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT MEAN????????

I couldn't find that exact wording on the page. Your clip said:

"Verified paper ballots for every vote cast by electronic voting machines;"

If Hillary really said, it completely untrue. She is mischaracterizing her own bill. her bill does NOT call for verified paper ballots. it specifically calls for paper audit trails. big difference.

I find it ironic that she named it the Count Every Vote Act. Makes me ill.

that page is a complete lie. her bill does not call for paper ballots in any way. How can we get them to change it.

There are problems with this bill but it does not call for a paper trail:
(I prefer the language in H.R. 550 that says "all voting systems shall produce or require the use of a voter verified paper record.")

fom S. 450 (Count Every Vote Act)
(1) IN GENERAL- Section 301(a)(2) of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (42 U.S.C. 15481(a)(2)) is amended to read as follows:

`(2) VOTER VERIFICATION AND MANUAL AUDIT CAPACITY-

`(A) VOTER VERIFICATION-

`(i) The voting system shall produce an individual voter-verifiable paper record of the vote that shall be made available for inspection and verification by the voter before the vote is cast.

`(ii) The voting system shall provide the voter with an opportunity to correct any error made by the system in the voter-verifiable paper record before the permanent voter-verified paper record is preserved in accordance with subparagraph (B)(i).

`(B) MANUAL AUDIT CAPACITY- The permanent voter-verified paper record produced in accordance with subparagraph (A) shall--

`(i) be preserved within the polling place, in the manner, if any, in which all other paper ballots are preserved within that polling place, or, in the manner employed by the jurisdiction for preserving paper ballots in general, for later use in any manual audit;

`(ii) be suitable for a manual audit equivalent to that of a paper ballot voting system; and

`(iii) be available as the official record and shall be the official record used for any recount conducted with respect to any Federal election in which the system is used.'.

(2) PROHIBITION OF USE OF THERMAL PAPER- Section 301(a) of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 (42 U.S.C. 15481(a)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

`(7) PROHIBITION OF USE OF THERMAL PAPER- The voter-verified paper record produced in accordance with paragraph (2)(A) shall not be produced on thermal paper, but shall instead be produced on paper of archival quality.'.

a paper trail means

a DRE machine can still be used to cast your vote. the paper is only used in the recount or audit.

there is no difference between a paper record and a paper audit trail

my issue was that she used the word "paper ballot". That IS different than a trail and a record. By definition the ballot is used to count the first vote, not just in recounts or audits.

notice, the actual legislation does not use the word ballot.

she should also not use the word ballot when she descirbes it because that would be wrong. her legislation does not refer to ballots. it refers only to audit trails, or records, whichever you want to call it.

It's like Bush calling his law the "clear skies initiative" . it is wrong and misleading.

The bottom line is that the COUNT EVER VOTE ACT does not ensure in any way that every vote will be counted.

Washington, D.C. Office
Friends of Hillary
1717 K Street, N.W.
Suite 309A
Washington, D.C. 20036

T 202-263-0180
F 202-263-0181

info@friendsofhillary.com



I just left a message there.

if you call, politely point out there's an error on their website. on this page

http://www.friendsofhillary.com/CountEveryVote/

it says

"It's time we have:
Verified paper ballots for every vote cast by electronic voting machines;"

Ask them to please change the word "paper ballots" to "paper records" to accurately describe what the bill calls for. You can explain the difference if you fee it's necessary or just say that there is a big difference between records and ballots and it's incorrect to say the bill calls for paper ballots.

You might want to read this article first if you haven't already:

http://www.solarbus.org/election/articles/0313-ballots.shtml

educate these people,keep pounding away that we can fix everything between the voter and the tabulator,and it won't work unless you fix the tabulator.You can have paper ballots, hand counted but if you send all them hand counted total's to a central tabulator we will be in the same boat in 2008.

I'm only saying that she has incorrect information on her website. It says ballots and that is wrong.

Your reply is a different discussion.

I agree, the ballot is not the only problem of e-voting.

However, removing DRE machines closes one significant loophole. Believe me, if that weren't true, then we would see some legislation getting out of committee at least (which is unlikely for any of the bills).

The DRE is so vulnerable because it is a way into the system for every memeber of the public. As Clint Curtis described the DRE machine can easily be programmed to allow a person to touch a few spots on the screen adn change the totals for htat machine, while it only looks like they're voting.

VVPB legislation would make that impossible. Would it fix everything? no.

But again, my point is to get them to describe their legislation accurately so we and others can really know what it does and doesn't do.

It is clearly an inaccurate statement to say that her act calls for paper ballots. It doesn't use the word ballot in the legislation and it shouldn't be used to describe it either.

Your website incorrectly describes Senator Clinton's "Count Every Vote" proposal. It states that it calls for paper BALLOTS when in fact it does not. There is a WORLD of difference between a paper TRAIL/RECORD and a paper BALLOT.

A paper ballot is what a voter uses to mark their choices, such as an optically scanned paper ballot. It not only stands as a permanent record of the vote to be used for recounting, but in fact enables the physical counting of ballots immediately as they are cast.


A paper trail is merely a printout of what an electronic voting machine has supposedly recorded as the voter enters their choices onto it. The record may, in fact, say one thing while the results recorded by the machine may say quite another. In addition to electronic glitches, the results can be tampered with without leaving any evidence behind.


The problem that Senator Clinton and other leaders in the House and Senate need to understand is that electronic voting machines are HACKABLE and one cannot know how the voter actually voted unless one physically tallies each and every vote. If there is only a paper record and the votes on that record are not counted, one cannot be certain that the machines recorded the votes correctly.

Moreover, even with a paper ballot-based voting system, such as optically scanned machines, there is the problem of hacking into the central tabulators. Again, unless the votes on each ballot are physically counted, one cannot know for certain that the final counts are accurate.

Merely calling for a paper trail/record does NOT solve the problems of ensuring that every vote is counted and counted correctly. Most legislation is written so that a recount only occurs whenever there is a close election and/or a discrepancy on random audits between the machine count and the hand count from the paper record. If the results have been hacked in order to remove the possibility of a recount, an election can easily be stolen.

When are Senator Clinton as well as the other members of the Senate and House who are working on "election reform" going to avail themselves of the wealth of expertise that exists on the subject of election reform? There are numerous organizations and experts who would love to educate them on the problems of electronic voting machines and on the pitfalls of calling for paper trails instead of paper ballots.

Senator Clinton's bill is NOT the solution. I will NOT, therefore, support it and am encouraging members of Democratic Underground and other forums and organizations who are interested in election reform to BOYCOTT it. Meanwhile, please correct the language on your website so that people are not MISLED into signing on to something that is being MISREPRESENTED.

Thank you.