Why are Dems so much more concerned about 2004 election fraud than Repubs?

fraud. Dems are the ones being defrauded.

Who is more upset about the con? The con artist or the con artist's
victim?

The real shame here is that the Dem establishment isn't doing much to fight this and the media is complicit. They must smell the rat, but they sure as hell aren't doing anything to identify and get rid of it.

Does that mean that you guys would be ok with this election fraud if the tables were turned and Kerry won the election because his operatives had control of the voting machines? Or if the Dems had control of Florida and they systematically disenfranchised Cubans because of their tendency to vote Republican?

And could your wording be improved?

so why should they care about fair elections or anything else that matters? Plus, their candidate "won."

"Won" is in parentheses for sarcasm, of course; I don't believe Shrub actually won, of course.

well (This is a republican speaking):
http://www.chuckherrin.com/ConservativeEmpathy.htm

The problem is not that John Kerry lost the election. That is just a SYMPTOM of the real problem, which is that the electorate may not be under the control of the American people. We need to re-frame this debate under different terms that EVERY American can understand and support.

There appears that there was definitely a grab for power, but it was not the Republicans stealing power from the Democrats. If it happened, then a small group of Republicans stole the power from the American People as a whole.

The reason that we Republicans haven’t seen it stems from the fact that it is not as obvious to us Republicans as it is the Democrats, since the pendulum of power moved in the way we wanted it to. We’re less likely to see the problem, since we tried to push the pendulum to the right, and the pendulum dutifully moved to the right. What we’re missing is the fact that maybe WE didn’t move it any more than a surfer moves the wave he rides in on by pointing his board towards the beach. Just because we pointed our board that way doesn’t mean that we’re the ones controlling the tide. What if we’re not in charge anymore, but most of us don’t really know it yet? Instead, we’re a lot like a dog sticking his head out of a pickup truck’s window – he feels like the fastest dog in the world, never realizing that he’s not the one pushing himself so quickly through the wind. This allows us to make out like bandits in the short term, since our goals are at least temporarily aligned with those actually providing the motion. For now, we can ride happily along, wind whipping through our ears, feeling great and in control. The problems don’t start until we try to get out of the truck, or worse, cross the street in front of it. Then it becomes painfully obvious who really has the power, versus who was just along for the ride.

One of the great and fundamental aspects of our Democracy is that the pendulum of power is designed to swing back and forth, with each party having control for a while, and then after a while control changes as the pendulum swings the other direction, pushed by the will of the American Voter. Think about it – Carter, then Reagan / Bush, then Clinton, and then Bush, and then by most accounts, the pendulum was apparently supposed to swing to Kerry. But it didn’t. Why? What if rather than the will of the American voter driving the direction of the pendulum, a small group has figured out how to keep the pendulum from moving away from them and towards the opposition. I’m going to quote Stalin again, since apparently a small group of people figured out that what he said so long ago really is true – “Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything”. The cold cunning behind those words gives me chills sometimes.

NeoCons call "Check" on Democracy - Mate in Four?

Since the only thing that holds our Representatives accountable to us is the power of our votes, if that disappears, so does their accountability. Why do you think that Karl Rove is predicting a Republican Dynasty for the next 40 years? Because he may have figured out how to freeze the pendulum of power, and he thinks that we are either a) too stupid to see the massive consolidation of power into the hands of a mighty few, or b) too weak and divided to do anything about it. The incredible power of our American nation is contained solely within the American people’s votes, and by not returning that power to us they are able to quite literally Rule the World. The world has never seen a group as powerful as those in control right now, and to think that they are operating with nearly total impunity should frighten all of us to the very core of our beings.

This power is not rightfully theirs, however. It is ours, and they are supposed to borrow it for 2, 4, or 6 years (depending on their office) so that they can represent us and our interests. When that time is up, the system is designed to return that power to us, and then WE decide whether to give it back to that same person or give it to someone else who we think will do a better job. But here’s the new twist; what happens if they simply decide not to give that power back? Who are they accountable to then? In that case, they are accountable to no one but themselves, and what the American Public wants does not matter anymore. Our interests are irrelevant, and they are free to do what they want with our power, our money, our Armed Forces, and our lives.

Yes, it appears that the pieces are in place to steal a great deal of power, but not from the Democrats. It will be (or has been) stolen from ALL of us, and that is what the American people need to know. The great unknown right now is whether we still have enough power left to get it back, and it is critical for the survival of our Country that we do everything possible with the power that we still have within ourselves to try and do so.

And perhaps I didn't make it clear enough.

It is great to see that there are some Republicans who are also concerned about the integrity of our election system. So thank you for providing this account, and I would hope that there are many more of them.

By voting for option # 3 of this poll, that would not mean (or at least I didn't intend it to mean) you think that no Republicans are honestly concerned about our Democracy. Option # 3 means that you believe that Democrats in general care more about our democracy than Rebpublican, and that that is why there are many more Democrats concerned about 2004 election fraud than Republican.

If you believe that, like the Republican who wrote the article you posted, just as many Republicans as Democrats are concerned about the integrity of our elections, you would vote for option # 1, not option # 4. The Republican you wrote this article is obviously concerned about our democracy. If he (or she) believed that most people who are concerned about election fraud at this time are concerned for the same reason as he (or she), but that there are more Repbulicans than Democrats in this category, then he would vote for option # 3.

Dems want fair elections more than Republicans because they are on the losing end of this particular fraud.
And I offered the CHuck Herrin post as an explanation of why more Dems are concerned than republicans. His article explains it very well. And I never said, nor did he, that AS MANY republicans are concerned. Whoever is on the losing end is going to be more concerned because they are the ones who will be investigating and paying attention to what's going on. Not to mention the fact that unless you are reading alternative media, or you are very bright and computer savvy and had your attention drawn to it because you are in the computer hacking business like Chuck Herrin, who is a white hat hacker, you wouldn't have a clue that anything is amiss.

Many of who knew about e-voting knew this election would be hacked before it happened. I doubt many repubs knew that other than the ones doing the hacking.

Why are Dems so much more concerned about 2004 election fraud that the Repukes committed than the Repubs are concerned about 2004 election fraud that the Dems committed?. Then the answer is easy.

was committed in favor of Bush, then there really isn't much difference between your question and mine. If you don't believe that, then it seems to me that your answer would be the 2nd choice.

It's of more concern because the democrats are on the severe end of it, with the actual voting machines dictating how they vote. There's never been anything more deplorable.

It may go both ways when it comes to fraud, but the truth is the democrats are on the far losing end of it because the extreme right are in control and not giving up easy. In fact, they are so radical that they are moving to remove all the checks and balances of government.

The very fact that they pay for, service, and rig the voting machines should have everyone with a conscience concerned. Regardless of their party affiliation, because clearly these members of leadership are neither republican or democrat.....They are viciously insane neo-fascists writing up neocon christened agendas everywhere, professing strife in the name of god, and everything else.

I think more or less the fact that 90% of all voting switches diverted to Bush, is of great concern. It should be of top priority to anybody believing in democracy.

The point I was making earlier is that if one chooses answer # 4 instead of answer # 3, that seems to imply to me the belief that most Dems would be ok with all of this if the tables were turned, and they were on the winning end of the vote fraud. I don't think that that would suggest that they really believe in democracy.

"Dems care more about fair elections than Republicans because they believe more in democracy than Republicans."

and

"Dems want fair elections more than Republicans because they are on the losing end of this particular fraud."

However, I would put a very important qualifier in front of the word "Republicans," and it is: BUSH Republicans.

over the hijacking of their party.

they'll never get one of their own through a primary again. They are just as much the victims of the fascists as we are.
Quite a few of them were posting their concern on DU right after the election.

I must have missed that. That could be good news. But were these Bush Republicans or Kerry Republicans? I think that's an important distinction, because it seems to me that many of these Republicans are likely to be Democrats before very long.

their Kerry (or Badnarik) votes had been switched to Bush.

1)The election has been 'privatized' and both the election machine companies and the mainstream media that monitors the elections are almost entirely in control of rightwing corporation. Thus the public is essentially excluded from the counting and monitoring process.

2) Both Dominionist (Christian Rightwing) and the Straussian (NeoCon)ideologies are overtly elitist and machiavellian and thus only have interest in fair elections as a concept for its propaganda value.

However in terms of the segment of the ruling elite (e.g. Soros)that seem to lead the DNC around by the nose, I have my doubts that they have a genuine interest in the national democratic process in the USA either other than how it can be exploited to promote their own brand of globalization.

Because I'm waiting for Election Fraud proof. Also, are the Dems prepared to defend in 2008 ? Ya know the Repubs are going to pull this sh*t too :)

I say let sleeping dogs lie.

If I and lots of other people are correct that the 2004 Presidential election was stolen, I assume that it's going to happen over and over again until we find a way to stop them.

But it's just about as close as you can come. We had 5 states go well beyond the margin of error in their swing towards bush against the exit polls. The odds of this happening are astronomically low, statistically impossible infact. And the hypothesis used to explain this discrepancy, the shy bush voter, has been thoroughly discredited. In fact, the very opposite, having Kerry voters being more reluctant to reply to exit pollers is most likely accurate. Given these SOBs track record, this is all the proof I need.

In order to really tackle this argument, we have to consider all the factors.

http://www.picturestable.com/Election04/switch.htm

And those are the factors that weigh up....This is getting very close to all the proof you need.

...electronic voting. HAVA is the best thing that ever happened to the GOP.

What do Republicans know that we don't?