Rawstory: Senator Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen

MSM.

dont let the door of freedom hit you in the ass on the way out.

You actually believed Kerry had developed a set? He is just another of the elite rich who have no personal stake (such as starvation, freezing, lack of healthcare, or lack of income, or-you get the idea) in any of this.

what happened in 2004, we certainly don't want him in 2008.

smart enough to recognize a gift.

I'll never forget the day I heard Kerry say on MSNBC that; "I believe the releasing of the bin laden tape days before the election is what did me in" (that's a quote!) reagarding his losing to Bush.

Skull and Bones members swear to never go against another member.

Sometimes I think this guy left his guts behind when he finished testifying in the Fulbright hearings.

big surprise there. He's still harboring thoughts of running again in '08. He can forget it if he doesn't take election fraud seriously.
Any Democrat that wants the Presidency should be shouting about election fraud from the roof-tops. DLC candidates apparently don't believe there is any election fraud which is why a DLC candidate can ever win.
Kerry continues to disappoint.

Please surrender your badge to Senator Harry Reid.

response now? If he wasn't tip toeing through his political career he might be President by now.

Kerry's was the first campaign I ever contributed to, and I did so because there was so much at stake. I truly believed he would fight for us.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

This will be all over Faux.

maybe at this point any publicity is good publicity -- though I am sorry that Mark Crispin Miller will be lanced because of it. His book might still sell more copies...

Remember Gandhi:

First the ignore you.
Then they ridicule you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.

So, according to Gandhi ridicule > ignore. Painful, probably true.

"And here's a quote from Kerry to prove it!"

Then BAM! It becomes "accepted fact" that the election wasn't stolen.

It is accepted and defended (consciously and unconsciously) by Rethugs and Dems alike -- careerism, denial, cover up of illegal actions -- it is all there already.

Forcing the "Kerry camp" to respond -- in any way -- brings it back to the surface.

They will spin. That is what they do. My Golden Retriever barks when leaves blow by because that is his job. The Rethugs and the media and the Dems will spin because that is their job.

And we keep throwing so many items in their direction to spin that - somehow - we break them. They spin so much that they fall down or something sticks so that the spin stops.

Would I have LOVED it if Kerry had confirmed. Sure. What are the chances right now? Probability = 0.000001. Are the chances better now than they were a year ago - Yep. A year ago, probability was = 0.000000000000000001.

That's my opinion - just an opinion.

:kick:

It doesn't matter how big the lie. Just keep saying it, even after anybody cares about it.

You try to refute and you're sneered at. If some liberal calls in to Hannity to point out a fact, he gets talked over, then cut off.

Keeps the points simple, repeat often, use examples to reinforce the original message, no matter how much the truth is twisted.

Classic propaganda techniques.

Goebbels how to lie: Make it BIG. Keep it simple. Repeat often.

Why make the lie BIG? Most people are ashamed to accuse others of doing something really horrendous (stealing millions of votes) because they would be so deeply ashamed to do such a thing. The shame would keep them from stealing, from stealing and then telling a BIG baldface lie.

So people don't feel comfortable thinking it might be possible - Denial, Denial, Denial, Denial.

Like an alcoholic - a family living with alcoholism - one has to hit bottom hard, repeatedly before the wall of denial cracks. Expect more pain before it crumbles.

They repeat their simple lies over and over and over to keep the listeners in their hypnotic trance.

The evidence of reality cannot be completely blocked from consciousness - in the alcoholic family bottles get emptied, on Fox news the words "stolen election" are said aloud (maybe).

to go out early nov 3 and say that he wanted every vote counted, no, he had to send edwards out...oh well, he`s no longer important in the grand scheme of things. it`s the elections in 2006 and Fitzgerald's trials that are important

From what I read, he simply stated that he did not tell the author that he believes it was stolen. If/when Kerry goes public with his thoughts about the 2004 election, I doubt he will make his statement through a second party. From past statements from Teresa Heinz Kerry, I think the Kerry's may believe their was election fraud. But Kerry is way too careful and deliberate to go public with those thoughts before the case is nailed down, the public is receptive and the time is right.

I am still a huge Kerry fan.

He has co-sponsored legislation to address election fraud, since early this year. (See mzmolly's thread for details on that).

As for this episode, it appears to me that Miller - at best - went public with comments that were said in a private conversation and should have been off the record. (WTF did he think would happen if he reported that Kerry was unhappy with other Dem senators on this issue?)

However, Miller has already expressed that he doesn't like Kerry. And he was speaking on a program that has repeatedly trashed Kerry. Why would I take his word against Kerry's now??

I know a few people who won't be buying copies of Miller's book.

And if he runs, I will vote for him again.

I don't know what kerry truly BELIEVES, but as a politician it's highly believable that he expressed agreement with Mark Crispin Miller, as MCM reports. Kerry probably didn't think it would make the media.

There are some excellent alternatives.

Go back to you manicure, and don't forget the clear nail polish.

Go back to you manicure, and don't forget the clear nail polish.

an ability to be CLEAR.

I'm so sick and tired of these politicians - even though they are rich as piss and don't need to play the game - they still fail to be honest, upright, and direct. I just can't understand it. What are they waiting for? Armageddon?

Heated Emotions Still Run High over Last Year’s Election Outcome
November 4th, 2005

There’s no doubt that emotions still run high over last year’s election outcome. So many feel that the election was stolen, yet with a Republican dominated House and Senate, it’s nearly impossible to push the envelope.

In an interview on Democracy Now, Mark Crispin Miller, pushing his new book, “Fooled Again” made some claims that are causing quite a stir over on DU.



A Kerry campaign spokesperson, has questioned Crispin’s claims noting that Kerry is leading the way on voter reform with the Count Every Vote Act:



Miller notes that Kerry needs encouragement to continue moving forward on this issue:



But, what Miller states above is off the mark because, as noted above, Kerry is championing electoral reform. Beyond the Count Every Vote Act, is the fact that the Kerry campaign is moving forward with the Voter Fraud lawsuits in Ohio.

Miller is on target in reminding people to keep the pressure on, but indeed the pressure needs to be on ALL the Senators, ALL the Reps, not just Kerry. We’re never going to move forward with electoral reform unless everyone gets on board. That’s where Miller misses the mark.

We need to target those in Congress who are NOT on board with this. Kerry consistently mentions the need for voter reform - as recently as his eulogy for Rosa Parks, and as noted here and here.

Mark Crispin Miller claimed that Kerry said he did not know about the GAO report, however that is absolutely false. On January 5, 2005, John Kerry released a statement regarding the GAO Report. Here’s a quote:



And on January 6, 2005, though Kerry was in Iraq during the counting of the Electoral Votes the Congressional Record shows that a statement was entered by Kerry on the count and mention was made of the GAO Report. Here is a quote from that statement:



It’s really time that everyone who feels so strongly about the outcome of last year’s election and the need for voter reform understand that John Kerry IS doing his part. It’s others in the Congress who are not, particularly, the Republican’s who only stand to gain but avoiding this issue. We need to stand up and demand our rights. Kerry brings this up frequently - we need to demand that others do as well.

Mark Crispin Miller would do better to promote his book and Electoral Reform by suggesting that everyone put the pressure on where it is needed most - with all who have not co-sponsored the Count Every Vote Act.

UPDATE: To date, the only Co-Sponsors for the Count Every Vote Act are: Sen Kerry, John F. - 2/17/2005; Sen. Hilary Clinton; Sen Boxer, Barbara - 2/17/2005; Sen Dayton, Mark - 3/7/2005; Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. - 2/17/2005; Sen Leahy, Patrick J. - 3/1/2005; Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. - 2/17/2005.

LINKS AVAILABLE HERE: http://blog.thedemocraticdaily.com/?p=1062

now on until and unless he fights the fraud issue. He won't be able to win people over after the concession and now this.

I have been a long time supporter of his. He's wrong on this.

There are lawsuits pending. For obvious reasons he can't be overtly vocal about the lawsuits.

"There are lawsuits pending" doesn't do much for us now. I do not have blind faith.

I will thank him if his strategy works, from down on my hands and knees I will thank him.

:cry:

You said "Mark Crispin Miller claimed that Kerry said he did not know about the GAO report, however that is absolutely false. On January 5, 2005, John Kerry released a statement regarding the GAO Report."

The GAO Report was released 10/21/05 - Brad Friedman's report on it is at the Huffington Post.

You said, "A Kerry campaign spokesperson, has questioned Crispin’s claims noting that Kerry is leading the way on voter reform with the Count Every Vote Act".

I want the truth out about the theft of the last election because appeasing bullies only makes them stronger and because there will *not* be voter reform with teeth until the truth about the elections stolen in 2000, 2002, and 2004 comes out. Kerry is speaking out about Count Every Vote - good. Not enough. The TRUTH must come out.

You said, "Miller is on target in reminding people to keep the pressure on, but indeed the pressure needs to be on ALL the Senators, ALL the Reps, not just Kerry."

I agree that all Senators and all Reps, not just Kerry must be pushed. However - Kerry has a bigger responsibility than ALL of the others because he specifically said that he had our backs and because millions and millions and millions of us - including you KerryGoddess - poured our hearts and souls and pocketbooks into his campaign. He owes us.

From the Kerry Spokesperson: I know Mr. Miller is trying to sell his book and he feels passionately about his thesis but his recent statements about his conversation with Senator Kerry are simply not true.

Lie.

From the Kerry Spokesperson: Make no mistake, after pouring his heart and soul into the campaign and seeing George Bush continue the mess he created, if the election had been stolen John Kerry would be fighting them today to reverse the outcome.

Lie.

If Mr. Miller wants to prevent the problems that happened in Ohio moving forward into 2005 and 2006, instead of misrepresenting what Senator Kerry said, he should be complimenting Kerry for leading the way in Congress with the Count Every Vote Act to improve voting rights and fund the election reform effort across the country.

Wrong. The truth must come out before any law will make any difference. We already have laws about elections -- they were broken and they are not being enforced. Passing new laws that won't be enforced means nothing. We have to enforce the laws on the books and make new laws - both.

You said: It’s really time that everyone who feels so strongly about the outcome of last year’s election and the need for voter reform understand that John Kerry IS doing his part.

Sorry, I disagree. Strongly disagree. Maybe he is doing his part while wearing a straightjacket - but until he finds out what happens and screams the message from the rooftops, he is not doing his part.

I believe Mark Crispin Miller.

I believe John Kerry is lying. Maybe he has very, very good reason to lie. Maybe he is wise to wait until the public is ready, until he has a slam-dunk case, until he is surrounded by others who will keep the spotlight from falling on him (so it is clear that this is not a case of sour grapes). Maybe. Then again thousands of people are dying, 100'000's of people are in dire situations, while Kerry waits until the time is right. How many more have to suffer until Kerry stops lying?

I am not Kerry bashing, I am asking. How much longer? Who is going to stand up and tell the truth?

Mark Crispin Miller is telling the truth about the election and about Kerry.

Congressman Conyers and the CBC is telling the truth.

Why not Kerry? Why not?

If he stood up and told the truth - he could shatter the glass wall of denial.

I don't know. I am tired. I am discouraged. I appreciate what he does. I believe that the truth must come out. Reid had courage earlier this week. Why not Kerry?

1. Kerry has not said anything on this today - his SPOKESPERSON did.

2. I DID NOT know about the recent GAO report. Sorry. So I provide information on what I know.

3. DO NOT presume to tell me what Kerry's responsibility is to me. I don't have issues with John Kerry. I do however have issues with someone telling me I should.

4. Were you in the room standing there taking notes when Kerry and Miller spoke? If not than you have no idea what was really said. Perhaps if John Kerry was speaking OFF THE RECORD, Mark Crispin Miller should have respected that.

5. We can talk about this until we are BLUE IN THE FACE, but the bottom line is Kerry CAN NOT DO THIS ALONE. We don't have the majority in the Congress and nearly DIDDLY Senators are willing to stand up on this.

6. Kerry had the courage to stand up last week and say 20,000 troops out of Iraq by the holidays. Kerry had the courage to say here's a plan for Iraq. Reid stood up this week because he was following Kerry's lead.

7. Why didn't Harry Reid stand with Boxer in January when they counted the electoral. Where was Reid then. Where is Reid on voter reform on the GAO report. He's the damn Senate Minority Leader. Tell me what he has to say.

8. You call Kerry a liar yet, you have no solid proof, that what Mark Crispin Miller said here was not taken out of context. It happens all the friggin time - what Kerry says is taken out of context - by the right wing and the left!

You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to mine. I offered some facts on this which is more than most do around here.

Kerry lied about what he said to Mark Crispin Miller.

Again, without hesitation, I believe Miller - who is a very, very, very courageous man in relation to the issue of the stolen election and much, much more. If Kerry had asked it be 'off the record' Miller would have kept it off the record. Should Miller have assumed that it was 'off the record' - maybe. I think Miller knew there was a very good chance that Kerry would deny and that he (Miller) would be publicly kicked in the teeth.

Kerry could have protected himself and minimized the damage to Miller by saying: "He misunderstood me. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear."

Here is more from MCM: Contemptible - Senator Kerry rebuffs claim he said election was stolen

Is that aspokesperson made the statement - not Kerry. Kerry was giving a speech at MIT yesterday.

As for the "more from MCM" it's nothing but a repeat of the Raw Story piece here. Thanks but that's not more.

I think it is splitting hairs to note this - unless Kerry comes out and announces that the spokesperson misunderstood him (JK) and that he did tell Miller that he believed the election was stolen and that he had spoken to Dodd and...

:bounce:

Lot's of people have conversations with Kerry everyday. Many of which are private. They don't run on over to DU to post them, do they? No they don't and you know what they shouldn't. A private conversation is a private conversation.

The way I see what happened is that MCM posted his private conversation here. Raw Story saw it and called Kerry's office for statement. Given that it was a private conversation Kerry's office responded stating that the conversation might not have gone the way MCM said it did.

That conversation should have stayed private. That it's out now. Great, but you know there are things about the pending cases that Kerry can't discuss. And he taking what action he can with Dems having limited power in the Senate and House. Top that off with there have plenty of issues that have also taken precent over this, sad but true.

I honestly believe the best thing that people can do is put pressure on the other Dems to get on board with this.

He's not talking now is he?

...'04 was stolen. I fail to see why, in the face of such compelling evidence for it, he would choose to say otherwise. He could at least say he's reserving judgment, or there appear to be very serious problems, or anything besides giving the impression that he thinks '04 was clean. He could have said Crispin misinterpreted remarks he made, or that he didn't make himself clear. His position on this is very puzzling. It almost seems like he's a member of some insiders political power elite club we're not supposed to know about, and membership means you don't talk about stolen elections. Maybe I'm just a conspiracy nut.

Kerry could have said - "I didn't make myself clear. Miller may have misunderstood my remarks."

That would have been a weasel instead of a lie.

Kerry lied.

Lie, lie, lie.
Lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie.
Lie, lie, lie.

If ever yin yang held equal sway in a person, John Kerry is that man. He is, at times, brilliant and clueless. All in all, he is break even, middle of the road, half-full, half-empty kinda guy.

An earlier poster on this thread commented on the swiftness of Kerry's denial in this instance to the two week delay in responding to the swift boat crap. Kerry missed an opportunity ,in my opinion, by not allowing Miller's statement to percolate on the 'Net an din the media without comment for a while. The more conversations that are taking place about the '04 fraud on the net and in the media helps John Kerry and, in this case, he could still ultimately correct Miller's interpretation of the conversation in question. He cut the knees off of this story faster than Karl Rove's mouth at a buffet table. It seems to me that his failure to advantage of political situations that can be taken advantage of no more than half the time will always make him a supporting actor.

The Democrat party needs a chickenhawk "mouth and trousers" John Wayne-type, like it needs a hole in the head. It's got a prosecutor who could teach Peter Falk's CIA agent in "The In-laws" how to do it, "Serpentine! Serpentine!" Just forget Clark. It's not going to happen. I should add though that I'm not implying Clark's a chickenhawk, of course.

Gasping for air....

I believe Miller (based on the reports that he said this).

This is how these guys work.

They either tell you the truth straight up OR

They deny the truth as a way of telling you they're not ready to tell the truth.

No wonder people find politicians vexing.

Let's let Kerry be Kerry and work this out on his own. He's a bright guy.

We're about where we should be on this story.

I'm on record and will go on record again as saying that when * hits a consensus 35% approval rating, the election fraud story will emerge rapidly and be seized upon as an excuse for the "terrible mistake" that is the Bush presidency. What better excuse -- "Well, he was never really elected."

This public stance will, at once, merge denial with effective policy making. Why? If there is agreement that "he stole it," then * has to leave and take the rest packing (including those pesky judges).

We're through the looking glass! Rokken!

I thought you had said 33%...

I am watching and rooting for 33% --

:-)

:blush:

This is going to be hard for Barkus to square up...... MCM provides sufficient extra detail of the conversation that Kerry will need to square away too. If he denies he said this he needs to now deny the remarks re the conversation with Dodds etc. etc.

And as he confirms the meeting he makes this something of a necessity.

Moreover... why would MCM make this up? It's not going to help sell the book if it turns into blowback.... in fact it undermines what he is trying to sell, the credibility of his ideas.

It is a terrible shame that Kerry's PR shooter is such a klutz. I'll give him a few weeks to find a new job...

al

it appears, that all that happened here is a "spokesman" said the conversation did not take place as the author said it did...there was no statement either way re: the factual veracity of the position of whether the election was stolen or not...I know you all want to jump on Kerry and blame him solely for the debacle, but lets just deal w/ provable facts, ok? We're supposed to be the reality based citizens, remember? (And no, Im not saying the election wasn't stolen, I just don't think we got the factual, provable, evidence "yet", that will sway the American public opinion.)

is 300 pages of information. If you are waiting for confessions from the people who did it or a copy of the software that allowed the theft - we don't have that yet.

Fooled Again - The Book

Conversation with Mark Crispin Miller:
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5253576>

More info from DUer Stephanie who set up the conversation with DU --
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x5246333>

Wow - what a concept.

"I actually voted for that bill before I voted against it"????

Inquiring minds want to know.

The change in that bill was sufficient to change his vote.

In fact it was such a change as to have Bush himself say he would veto that same bill, the one Bush supported and signed, same reversal on the same bill as Kerry. Only there was no cropped sound bite on Bush.

As I recall Kerry supported Iraq oil to pay for reconstruction and Bush said he'd veto that. The change was that the American taxpayer would pay for reconstruction which Bush was for, and Kerry, against. Yes, the same bill, but after one change.

(We now know that the American taxpayer is paying for reconstruction by creating debt given to future American taxpayers at a much higher price with interest and compounded interest.)

he is dead to me...........he is milk toast!

Mark Crispin Miller has much more credibility than Scaredy Pants John Kerry. When someone has shown you who they are, believe them.

is grandstanding. He isn't even a prime mover behind it.

And, furthermore, it is nothing more than a band-aid.

http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oId=18049

http://www.johnkerry.com/features/votingrights/

Co-Sponsors for the Count Every Vote Act are: Sen Kerry, John F. - 2/17/2005; Sen. Hilary Clinton; Sen Boxer, Barbara - 2/17/2005;

Sen Dayton, Mark - 3/7/2005; Sen Lautenberg, Frank R. - 2/17/2005; Sen Leahy, Patrick J. - 3/1/2005; Sen Mikulski, Barbara A. - 2/17/2005.

Apologies to Ralph Neas and PFAW, but this act is just INADEQUATE.

I bet it's a matter of wording and timing.

Documentation that Kerry won Ohio & national vote in 2004
http://www.flcv.com/ohiosum.html


He had a win/win issue and didn't push it; since irregardless of the possibility of documenting the correct vote totals it was clear that there was massive touch screen vote switching, manipulation and dirty tricks affecting huge numbers of minority voters; manipuation of registration and absentee ballots, suppression of student and minority votes; etc.

http://flcv.com/summary.html
http://www.flcv.com/studentv.html