"Leon County dumps Diebold!!! BBV Breaking News!!!" story isn't accurrate.

Sorry, but it doesn't add up.

It all seems to start on this BBV thread.
http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/15595.html

The original post is the 13th, with the 14th appearing to be part of some original announcement which doesn't seem to exist.

And as you scroll through the comments, you'll see some head-scratching comments and replies that that are long on smoke and short on fire.

Perhaps this will ripen. Perhaps it will rot. But so far, it doesn't add up.

In this instance, I hope Bev Harris and Jim March prove me wrong, but it's been 24 hours since these allegations surfaced.

I've been waiting patiently to hear something, anything official.

Somehow, I had a feeling in the pit of my stomach that we are, once again, watching a Bev Harris fundraiser with lots of lies and half truths incorporated.

RESOLVED? I hope multitude of reports today in the mainstream media ends the conspiracy theory alleging this SECOND BBV test was a media ploy or an elaborate conspiracy theory to bring down the election integrity movement:

http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/state/13414791.htm

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/13413981.htm

The Miami Herald is reporting:

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/13410061.htm

...as is USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-12-15-opticalvoting_x.htm

Looks good to me.

of announcements. They're convinced that people who monitor threads of interest will read their post, pat themselves on the back and move on to another issue.

Remember the lie about Halliburton not getting "No Bid" contracts?

For the hack story, they need a direct confirm from Ion Sancho. Since this happened after deadline last night, that means they couldn't get that quote until today for tonight's news. They'll get a more thorough story if they get Ion Sancho's formal press release, and they'll wait for that.

It's not at all unusual for the media to take 3-4 days on a story. Yes, often a story is covered same-day, and this would have been if we'd invited the press to stand there and watch, offering a chance to interview Sancho and Hursti afterward, but the complexity of organizing everything, including bringing people here from other countries and around the U.S., did not lend itself to adding to the zoo. There was discretion about the schedule, and even I did not know exactly when it would take place yesterday until a couple hours before.

Therefore the effort was to document it meticulously and release the information afterwards.

Could it be because there IS no press release? Nah......Bev Harris wouldn't be just making shit up, now would she? </sarcasm>

requested? Looks like another fundraising ploy to me.
:shrug:

and she's just another Bev victim taken in by the hyperbole and lies.

(SH in CA, that is you, correct?)

to be used and discarded like the others.

Clueless and doing Bev's dirty work for her. Plonk into the ignore file goes that one.

12 hrs away (because I do have other things I must tend to in my life--like actual election integrity work beyond blogging.)

Why the wild accusations? I feel like I'm being freeped by my ostensible allies.


Here's my response that I've also posted on the original diary:

First, the source of the Ion Sancho release was on the DailyKos, where I posted the same information. Someone commented that I should link to this informative Ion Sancho release. I looked at it and saw the date was the same and so I figured it was legit. I now find out that the Leon County website updates the date to match the date you are viewing the blog, which I personally have never seen anyone do before. It hadn't occurred to me. I just made a few calls and found out that that release pertained to the last BBV test, which revealed problems with the ability to hack the poll tapes. But as you know elections officials contended that there were other safeguards in place that would make that vulnerability moot.

However, the NEW BBV test, reported on 12/13, is a FIRST--and a very important first--it reveals that a hacker can directly edit the votes on the memory card.

The upshot is that Leon County's Ion Sancho will dump its Diebold products.

But, I must say that your snide way of impugning MY integrity make me suspicious of your intentions. What have you done for this cause that makes you so smug?

all you need to know. I'm not the one mistakenly posting old as well as unverified info here, am i?
if you had no prior knowledge of the previous BBV scams and how they were entwined with Bev's fundraising efforts, well then i'm sorry, i'm sure it'll take no time to get up to speed on those issues if you check your original thread.
it's no wonder you are so defensive, you made a mistake thinking it was new. i saw nothing added to verify the new info in the last 24 hours and wondered how the hell it made it to the greatest page when the OP was referring to, as you and others have said, largely old news.
you're not doing BBV any favors by posting like this, they are not exactly considered a sound, or sane source around here, and you haven't helped them any.

and I see I get this venomous accusation for not responding within an hour?

Had it occurred to you that I might not have read it?

That perhaps I was not sitting at the computer?

Or did you imagine me running away that entire hour?

And fundraising for whom? I accept no monies and have no affiliation with BBV.

This is nothing more than agent provocateur tactics.

Who are YOU working for?

There is a history of why many people are suspicious -- OK, maybe downright contemptuous, sometimes -- of her breaking news stories.

Right now it boils down to, either Ion Sancho is about to make this announcement, or he isn't, and some folks have already placed their bets.

Seems to me, Bev Harris is smart enough to be convincing, and weird enough not to be. So reasonable people can disagree.

In fact I interviewed Andy at length about his feud and believed his side was true, but I also see the incredible work that BBV is doing so why hold a "personality" against their good efforts--when they are provable.

The BBV bashing is nutty--and she's at times perhaps a bit nutty--but so what. We are allies and should act like it. I see BBV doing a lot of the heavy lifting on this issue recently. I'd like the others to put up or shut up.

And I have no special allegiance to BBV, but I have known Jim March for sometime now and have never known him to lie or exaggerate--even once.

Personally I think that "at times perhaps a bit nutty" doesn't really cover the waterfront -- but certainly I don't see BBV as the enemy. It's an interesting conundrum, actually.

why hold a "personality" against their good efforts

Becuase Bev has done so much to damage her credibility and even to this day continues to attack people who she sees as the enemy.

and i saw it took a lot of convincing tonight to get through to you what was wrong with your post.
not terribly impressive. still not verified.
agent provacateur? that's a laugh, you are the one further damaging BBV's credibility with the shoddy post.

Not the first. Sadly, I doubt the last.

truly made me wonder.
It's not a great feeling when old /inaccurate /confusing stuff gets put up for the greatest.
If that was me, I'd have the Mods kill the thread.

Still, she was duped, and that's disorienting enough without feeling as though you're being attacked, as well.

I take issue with BBV. But I wasn't really here yet when the whole nasty scene went down. So I wasn't broken-hearted, as many may have understandably been.

BBV is an emotional issue for some. For me, it's more a peculiarity.

it was very ugly, very confusing, and did some serious damage to the cause of VVPB because she made an ass of herself to the press.
a big shame all around. if einstein is wanting to forgive and forget great, it's just not an option for many of those who were duped, maligned and schmeared by bev. ms harris would have served the cause better to bow out after the last florida fiasco, a major embarrassment, still not cleared up at all. sad, strange business. :shrug:

The post is 99% accurate. It reports a NEW test that revealed hacks directly to the memory cards, and as a result Leon County will no longer be using them. This was also reported by Bradblog and by Mark Crispin Miller.

The only part that was inaccurate was that I posted an incorrect link to Sancho's website, which still has a release about the old test. Who knew that they weren't updating their website? Because it's very hard to tell when the website uses the current date for the date at the top of their posts.

So spare me.

I was blaming BBV for the Sancho link. They included that on their thread. Now you want to claim responsibility for it?

Brad reported, no, BLOGGED, what's on Bev's site. And I haven't seen Miller's piece. Feel free to post the link. Google and you'll see other's have BLOGGED about BBV's post and linked to it. It sure lend's credibility, but it ain't a done deal. They are saying that BBV said, blah, blah.

I asked you to look at the new test in light of Pat T's comment on that thread. I'll wait and see, too.

Your statement above (actually BBV's--but go on and hang your rep on it if you want)that, "as a result Leon County will no longer be using them" is yet to be verified. If there's another source for that, I missed it. And so did John Gideon.

I was trying to get people off your back. I was saying that you were caught off guard. Perhaps I was wrong to defend you in that way. If you prefer, I'll stop doing that.

of your post which was new info:


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2311256

Because I read through them and it looks like she's got a bad temper.

I agree she shouldn't be threatening lawsuits, etc.

I have no interest in rehabilitating careers, but just like when Shelley started getting smeared and then I found out that it all boiled down to the fact that he might have a bad temper, BUT that he was courageous enough to stand against Diebold for us, I was an immediate fan.

I think you need to separate the wheat from the shafted.

and encouraging people to personally attack a dying man.
I'd say that's plenty.

This list could get really long.

"Bad temper" doesn't even begin to cover the damage that grifter has wreaked on this community.

in this story. And I take no pleasure in reminding this forum of that fact. :(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=383284

You need to pay closer attention--and remember if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

Shelley's fall comes from his involvement with kickbacks of public funding to his election campaign, it was all over the press here in Northern California (but maybe not in Eureka). What he was accused of is comparable to what Tom Delay is accused of. Allegations of staff abuse and such were just icing, and quite possibly actions of left overs from the Jones administration.

The concern with Bev Harris is that Andy's issue gave voice to ill treatment of others that appear to have always been in the background; there is also the unappealing connection to republican shenanigans in her past; and that strange charge in Florida, that it was democrats manipulating the vote via touchscreen (interesting in light of the Theresa La Pore strike, whose political affiliation is something of a mystery, except she appears to have been a democrat only for the opportunity to hold higher public office).

The conclusion of many progressives is that she cannot be trusted, and that her agenda is not necessarily ours. I, am among those.

That said, I do not see anything in your post or past posts to suggest you are an agent provocateur, but having a sincere interest in election reform, and having done something from modest ignorance. My hope is that others recognize this, and refrain from the corrosive labeling.

Mike

is nothing else than a dedicated, passionate activist. And those of us in CA, especially, appreciate not only her work but her success.

But I've carried the label naysayer for about a year for stating that TIA's exit poll assessments don't stand up.

It's important to inform someone where you both agree with them and disagree without the ad hominens, and to minimize any emotional pain that goes with it. I am certain that Einsteinia felt attacked for what was in their mind a simple misinterpretation of a date. As long as we point to why the failing occurred without the branding, we keep ourselves to the salience of the argument, without the interpretation by ourselves or others of which side we might be on, when in cases like this, there really isn't a side but a continuum.

Mike

Thank you for the clarification. :)

allegations against Shelley panned out. It was a smear campaign. I don't like it when people who stand up for us and work hard for us are the victims of a witch hunt. Do your homework and don't just mindlessly repeat the drivel from the mainstream media.

Tell me one allegation that panned out. Just one.

I don't know where else one gets their news--I rely on radio news, KCBS out of S.F. But these two articles pretty much sum up what I know--

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/08/26/MNG088EKH61.DTL

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=3313781

I think it takes chutzpah to suggest a grand jury indictment in the Bay area is part of a republican conspiracy (Terrance Hallinan is not my idea of a conservative); or not mention it at all, and make a bigger deal of abrasive relations with staff--one could not get away with this alone with a senate and assembly comprised of a democratic majority.

Which I suspect that this is what you might be referring to as non MSM news:

http://www.voteamericavote.com/shelley.html.

Which is a nasty statement regarding the situation with Bill Jones office (well, far nastier than what I averred to).

We can continue this, but the point is that you were not forthcoming with the specific reasons why Shelley was forced to resign. You cannot advance an argument unless you address all the issues. To step around this does us no good. If I can point this out, others can as well, and they are not your allies.

Do I think Shelley did good, yes I do--did I intentionally avoid saying he was corrupt, yes I did. Quite frankly he could have been done in for a variety of pay backs, I don't think you rise to power with the personal connections he had in SF not to have incurred that wrath. But, I would not associate that specifically with his oversight of and possible opposition to DREs without checks and balances.

Mike

99% of the post is correct and 1% was an error anyone could have made when you have an election official who's website doesn't post the date of the post, but instead updates with the current date. I've personally never seen that done before and it is confusing.

But for you to take that 1% and make it mean the whole thing is an untruth is agent provocateur tactic. To spin the thread of truth to impugn the credibility of the entire story is, indeed, a classic agent provocateur tactic.

BTW, I gave money to BBV way back when, and I'm happy about it. They were the first to let us know how easy it was to hack the GEMS and they wrote a book on the topic and gave it away for free. They've been flying Hursti around from Finland and so on. So, I figure my dollars were doing to leg work for the cause.

I'm sorry about the Andy feud, but to conflate it with everything that BBV is doing is counter-productive to our mutual cause.

the monumental damage done by that grifter as "the Andy feud". That's a gross misrepresentation of the abuse she has visited not only on multiple individuals, but on multiple communities.

(And I will pause here, for that to sink in.)

You are walking a very slippery slope, Einsteinia. The ends do not justify the means. And I'm very sorry to be the messenger because I have greatly admired your work.

Before you extend yourself any more on this topic, why not do a bit of research? We all know group efforts can become the victims of personalities, it goes with the territory. So, why not do a little digging on this one? If it can keep the community focused on the prize, it would be time well spent.

BBV Admin
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 2940
Registered: 12-2004

Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?)
Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2005 - 12:38 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nope, what's listed above is not the media release. The date automatically updates on that, but it's from a long time ago.

Black Box Voting followed exactly the same procedure with disclosure of the story today that we did in May. However now both Harri Hursti and Ion Sancho are so much more high profile -- and with general interest raised due to the California hack, Wally O'Dell's resignation, and the stockholder lawsuit -- the press is all over this.

I'm sure Mr. Sancho will issue a statement as soon as he can prepare it the way he wants. Mr. Sancho may have been surprised at the immediacy and intensity of the media inquiries, since the confluence of events produced a much hotter press environment this time than we experienced last May.

Although Black Box Voting has his announcement on videotape, and his statements are direct, to the point, and clear as a bell, the press needs the confirm to come directly from him before they can run with it.

That's the problem with media. At first it ignores things and then a tipping point is hit -- then it smacks everyone in sight against the wall like a ship in gale-force winds.

Ion Sancho is a national hero. Other elections officials are coming forward now, but it is Sancho who had the courage to lead.

http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/15595.html

More Bev Harris bullshit.

It was a legitimate story from May that BBV reposted yesterday, nothing wrong with that, as far as I can see.

I don't like her behavior, no.

I don't always like Bev's behavior either and when I don't, I tell her so, sometimes publicly on an email list, and I am never one to hold back when someone is doing something I consider to be wrong, but in my opinion:

1. Every day is a fresh day and fresh opportunity and chance to perceive others as they are being at that moment.

2. We should all work together and give Bev encouragement whenever she does something good, which is a lot of the time.

3. None of us are perfect or flawless.

4. Let's make sure that we attack the "opposition" - ie. the many people working against vote count accuracy and election integrity - and not each other - who we urgently need to support whenever there is an opportunity to do so.

Please forward copies of the two items below to politicians to wake them up to this issue:

http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Presidential-Election-2004.pdf

http://www.democraticunderground.com/crisis/05/041_ep.html

We "must" wake up our candidates to stop them from conceding elections that they've won if votes were counted accurately the way voters intended!

to BEVWORLD.

Really, there is no excuse to keep sending the new victims her way.

every time this (and otehrs come up) issue comes up. My response is:

1) "It doesn't matter if Bev libels people and lies as long as she stops BBV". (the ends justify the means).

Do I really have to explain to liberals why this is immoral?

2) "Bev said..."

We have heard Bev's claims. We have seen no evidence to back up these claims. We have been very careful to document our claims with links, and emails (Bev's own words). The word of someone caught in multiple lies is not "proof".

3) "Bev has saved the world, what have you done?"

*sigh* If you really wanted to know (and I don't think you do) you could avail yourself to Google and find out what we are doing. We never claimed to be saving the world, just fighting paperless voting the best we can.

4) "After all Bev did..."

Bev didn't do it on her own, she had help, LOTS of help. She rewarded the people who helped her by publicly smearing them.

5) "Prove to me that Bev..."

I've posted the proof. Read the links.

6) "No, point me to a summary or specific post that proves your case."

Sorry. Unlike Rush Limbaugh, we require our proofs to be read IN CONTEXT. Anything else would be unfair and deceptive. Reading and thinking is hard work. It's why we are liberals and not freepers.

It is regrettable this is necessary, but Bev's "help" is making our job harder.

and lack thereof.

"We have the poll tapes. We have the poll tapes."

"But we can't show them to anyone until the film crew edits the film."

"We're going to sue Keith Olbermann."

"Andy's faking his illness."

By the way, kster, where are the 501c3 financial reports from BBV?

that I'm aware of. Leon Co. is very happy with its system as is.
Even though most aren't aware that the compilers can be easily
manipulated.

The Leon county election supervisor, Sanchez, let Bev Harris and Hari Hursti test Diebold's optical scan voting systems in May and they found it a "piece of cake" to rig them to miscount the ballots.

Yes, optiscan machines are at least independently auditable, but they are just as likely to miscount votes as any DRE if they are not audited and especially if they are built by a company like Diebold whose machines seem specifically designed to make tampering easy.

Read up on blackboxvoting to learn more.

So you can put the source into proper perspective:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2311256

I still say that we always have to treat people by responding to what they are currently doing - and encourage anything and everything good and speak out against anything that is bad.

Right now Bev is doing good things, and "yes" she has in the past unfairly and unnecessarily and destructively attacked and mistreated people (even whole groups of people) on occasion - but she also does great things. I say, give her sh-- when she does something bad and a lot of encouragement when she does something good. I've seen her learning. She is dedicated. She wakes up every day and tries to help restore democracy and that is good. She has done a huge service to the election reform movement by playing a major instrumental role in uncovering Diebold's shannigans. She has been good at getting press and money - which I wish she would share with groups like the openvoting.org and electionarchive.org that have the solutions to the problems if only we could obtain the funding - but math and computer nerds aren't very good at public speaking and fundraising. However, what Bev has done to expose the problems has been crucial.

I say "thank you" heartily Bev Harris, but that won't stop me from disagreeing with her mightily again if I feel that she steps out of line. I've taken a lot of sh-- from Bev's supporters by publicly speaking out when I disagree with her - and I've given them sh-- for what I considered to be ill-advised positions and I've seen them change and adopt better positions.

Kathy

But don't ask others to damage theirs.

in this forum?

Simply unbelievable.

I'm all for getting over petty cr@P! What this grifter did to this community and to several respected members **right here** can't by any stretch of the imagination be called "petty cr@P!"

I think I better go walk the dog.

But some people just want to be in the spotlight so badly, they'll say and do anything to get there. My guess is Bev isn't the only person on this issue like that.

"Hell, if I go down to the kitchen for a snack in the middle of the night and the 'frig light comes on, I just have to sing, 'I wanna be in picturesssssssssssss!"

A pretty human phenomena. :)

She is a grifter who took credit for the risks other people took to get this information out, Kathy.

Maybe you should talk to them instead of trying to rehabilitate that disgusting woman.

any idea what ever happened to the Florida video and the charges Bev obstructed justice? because until that mess is cleared up, it's still a toxic group to be invoved with as far as I'm concerned. lotta big fundraising then bad press fallout from that.

morning radio show.

IF this story is just a fabrication, then someone should make sure she gets the memo!