Easier than Ohio- only 42,000 votes will "flip" Nevada, NM, and Iowa

it is an alternate strategy which will produce the 269 EV tie, if we are unsuccessful in Ohio.
From what I have seen it is possible. Are people working on this too?

That brings it to the house and we're back to Bush...

He is such an arrogant and smug lying elitist asshole it is the least he deserves.

So it could work.

Good point. Let's make them sweat.

Then not casting the vote won't have much of an effect, because it will still go to the house. What gets me, is that this will be the new house — sounds like conflict of interest to me, for anyone who was just elected. What are the odds of getting them to recuse themselves?

All alone? With no support from anyone? Don't count on it.

Any links?

After all, this could be a second-line strategy in case the fully recount is stopped--beg the electors to do the right thing...ok, i'm dreaming, but it would be another chance for the left to regroup and organize after the heartbreak on nov. 2.

Is that reversing a couple states will bring the questionability of the election to the public's eye, and attract a lot more media attention to bigger states (FL and OH).

any small victory for us will turn up the heat.

I'm not sure winning the election this way would be healthy, but it would certainly motivate all parties to enact some real election reforms.

four years. We need a win!

We need Missouri, Ohio, Nevada, New Mexico, Iowa, Colorado, and Florida.

A few more wouldn't hurt either.

Solid victory.

No playing to scrape in by the skin of our teeth. Too many ways for that to go wrong.

--Peter

This isn't just about 'winning' though....it is about the very democracy that we cherish potentially being undermined by fraud.

kris

I'd be FINE with (well, less depressed over) a Bush victory at this point, IF, and ONLY if, it's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was NO fraud involved. If more people ACTUALLY voted for him, so be it. At least we would be able to trust the system again.

But if it was STOLEN, we need to STOP this shit NOW (actually, now that I type this, if that amount of people ACTUALLY DID vote for Bush, I think that'd make me feel WORSE). Goddamnit, just prove the fraud already! Get the recounts going! Can't wait to see where this all leads.

fraud = uncover it
Bush victory = seccession

I thought this was about 2008.

--Peter

I was like, man, this is the most optimistic guy Ive ever seen.
Talking about...We need Missouri, Ohio, Nevada, New Mexico, Iowa, Colorado, and Florida.

A few more wouldn't hurt either."

and, hey, heres hopin :)
But i thought you were talking about getting a recount and switching the decision in those states. Then you said..."A solid victory"

cheers to that my friend. In 04 and beyond :toast:

:donut:

They (the Repukes) are making amockery of our democracy by this. Who cares if some people look like kooks trying to prove this--it's important.

...we just need to prove it, is all!
And I disagree with your saddemocrat...this is about winning!
Winning for Americans...Winning for stem cell research...winning for healthcare for everyone...winning from corrupt corporations...winning from fascism...winning for the preservation of our democracy, and our beloved Constitution.
These months will be the litmus test whether we choose a fascist government, or a democratic one.
We can't afford to LOSE.
Oh yes. It's ALL about winning.

show me a gracious loser and I will show you a loser!

than from a hole.

If you're looking for a Kerry victory, the problem with a 269-269 tie is that enough Republicans control Congress that Bush would still be voted in. Kerry would have to break 270 to take the presidency.

But like someone else said, this is not about a Kerry presidency nor should it be. If people are pushing for recounts for any reason other than correcting a broken election and thus preserving a better semblance of democracy, then we're in the wrong business.

then I am not sure you are understanding our intent.

No matter what a few soulless desperados think.

A sure victory for Bush in the H of R.

Sorry, but the point of this is not to make Kerry win...
this is precisely what went wrong in 2000, Gore only focused
in on the areas which were heavily democratic, instead of doing
a statewide investigation and recount.

The point here is to get these idiots, from the local to the federal
to put into place an election system that cannot be tampered with,
hacked, use voter suppression and intimidation, whatever technique
or hole that is.

If we stick with this approach we might get a system, someday,
that's actually fair..

like the Oregon system.

But, doing anything to get kerry over the top period will be
looked at as sore loser stuff, biased and even if it happened..
Kerry would now be questioned as legitamite with that approach.

and that is as good a motivator as any.
and yes Gore made a big mistake in what he did and how he went about it.

This isn't about getting Kerry elected -- this is about saving democracy itself.

I DON'T CARE WHO WINS at this point -- I care that ALL the fraud, ALL the chicanery and vote suppression and ALL the vulnerabilities of these damned machines is fully and finally exposed.

If you want to be able to vote for ANYone in the future, and actually have it count (instead of just going through a pleasant but utterly meaningless little ritual), you'd better care more about exposing the machines and other fraud than about who wins too.

let's shatter any myth of a mandate.
let's work on getting votes counted for Kerry, and pecking away at the 3.5 million poular vote margin.
let's wrest back a supposed red state from Bush.
let's uncover fraud and any felonies.
All these goals are compatible.

And I hope that one by-product will be to remove the chance for old-time fraud - I believe that we have been too naive for our entire history of voting if we think that the fraud this time is the first time this has happened. I'll bet we find out some low-tech methods of fraud that have been employed, too.

Ohio, Florida, New Mexico, Nevada, and Iowa . . .

We did have a paper trail in our county. The ACLU was represented in our forum about the new voting machines and they seemed very satisfied. Our votes were not tallied on the internet, they were submitted by internet but not tallied, so far there have been no reports of changes of the vote counts that I know of.

been "manipulated".

A few Vegas voters already confirmed that. Each machine didn't print a receipt when voting. There was a printer in the precinct, but people were not able to verify their vote.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/09/24/politics2042EDT0138.DTL

<Snip>

Nevada's system requires county registrars to randomly select a small percentage of machines -- from 1 percent to 3 percent of a county's total -- and compare printed records with the vote totals taken from computers' memory cartridges. The paper records -- which voters can see through a plastic window but can't touch or take home -- will be kept in county election offices for 22 months and used in case of a recount.

<More>

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/biztech/09/14/e.votinglessons.ap/

<Snip>

Credit the training in Nevada, and credit the printers -- which give computer scientists and voter-rights advocates assurances that elections can be fully audited. As many as 50 million Americans elsewhere will use paperless touchscreens this November, and critics say hacking, malfunctioning and other problems in only a few counties could have huge implications in a tight presidential contest.

On Wednesday, U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein co-sponsored legislation that would force hundreds of counties using touchscreens to install printers by requiring all voting machines to produce a paper trail by July 2006. An aide to the California Democrat said Nevada's election marked a turning point in the contentious debate over touchscreens.

"The Nevada election demonstrates that you can have efficient electronic voting machines yet at the same time have a paper trail so voters can be assured they've voted accurately and their vote is being recorded accurately," Feinstein spokesman Howard Gantman said.

<More>

The votes are stored on memory cartridges. No paper ballot or trail at the time the vote is placed. It's just printing whatever votes are on the computer, we have no idea how they got there.

.......all evidence I've seen contradicts what you are saying. :evilgrin:

Can you please offer some proof that the printers were NOT set up in a way that allowed the voters to verify their paper backup ballot in the printer? All press accounts I've seen say otherwise.

What proof have you? :shrug:

run by a corrupt Repub by the name of Sproul, who also came to Oregon and is under investigation by our SoS.

No one knows if there were hundreds, or many thousands of registrations that were thrown in the trash by this illicit company.

Many folks are working on the numbers in those states, so it couldn't hurt to look at these and others, IMO.

Good idea! :toast:

DUers from those states should start investigating at home.

(New Yorkers like you can start anywhere.) ;)

186%, 125%, etc, republican turnout? Ok, I am CONVINCED they cheated, but why did they make it so obvious. I mean, showing 96% republican turnout raises eyebrows, but it's technically possible. 186% voter turnout reveals blatant fraud. They are greedy and stupid.

Make sure it isn't a red hairing...

There is no such thing as Republican or Democratic turnout with voting results since you don't know what party the voter is registered with. That may not be the case with exit poll data though, so you could probably come up with those numbers for that data. Here's a scenario that would explain those 100%+ "turnout" numbers:

Fake County has 1000 registered voters, 500 for each party.

Voting results are 750 votes for Bush and 250 for Kerry. Was there a 150% "Republican turnout"? No, 500 Republicans voted for Bush and the votes of 250 of the Democrats counted for Bush, whether that was their intention or not.

made a lot of money, then he counterfeited $10 bills and made
a whole bunch more. Then he got greedy and careless and counterfeited
$15 bills and ended up behind bars.

Registration data county by county
2004 results county by county
2000 results county by county
Machines used in each county
CNN exit poll data
CBS exit poll data

Have the provisionals in NM and NV been counted yet?

no

It was in the TV news here when a young man was walking the streets signing up new voter registrants, but then throwing away democratic forms in garbage. When asked by the reporter his answer was "the republicans pay me $2 ONLY for those who register as republicans"!