My prediction

The recounts aren't going to happen :(

I keep getting excited when I come here and read all of the 'facts'..and then I listen to the media call them conspiracy theories, etc. If the recounts were really about to happen, why wouldn't the media give that at least minimal attention? I just don't think the recounts are more than wishful thinking on my part....

:(

kris

Wow, post after post of yours that I read is truly depressive....

I just hope you don't bring other DU'rs down with you.

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!!!!!

well you haven't read many then...I've gotten all excited about the reports coming out in the international media, I've debated the fraud ad nauseum...and in my 42 posts I've had about 3 or 4 where I've asked if we could be wrong....God forbid I actually express my dismay here.

kris

I know you're new, but if you're listening to the national media (other than Keith Olbermann on MSNBC, the ONLY mainstream journalist to be taking this even remotely seriously), you're only setting yourself up for problems and "dismay."

May I suggest -- again -- that you avail yourself of this thread, frequently:

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#

And for your sake ('cause you're getting on some DUers' nerves, apparently), quit with the moaning and groaning until you're better informed. A helluva lot of people are working very hard to make this happen. Nader, Cobb, Badnerik have committed to requesting recounts in NH and OH. Bev Harris said today on Randi Rhodes' show that she was going to ask for a recount in FL (I don't know if she can by herself or not).

There's a LOT going on, and commitments already made. New information is pouring in daily about snafus, problems, vote suppression. New information surfaces daily with analysis and data.

EDUCATE YOURSELF, will ya? Right now, no offense, but in your ill-informed state, you're a drag on the momentum.

I have dedicated the overwhelming majority of my threads to being upbeat and supportive of this cause. Whoever is irritated should go take some prozac...I couldn't care less...You people need to put on your own 'asbestos underwear' if you can't even handle it when a newbie expresses her dismay after reading 3 threads in a row about Kerry being a loser, the mainstream media dismissing this AND the Kerry campaign coming out and saying that there was no conspiracy theory.

I think you guys have some wising up to do too.

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Can I ask what we're "keeping hope alive for"?

If you mean moving our party forward then I am with you 1,000%

But if you mean pretending that Kerry might become President in some miraculous way.... well, I'm a realist

Can be saved.

What is your malfunction MrElectronicPhonyVoting101773? Democracy is at stake. The potential for exposure is gaining momentum. There is more at stake here then you could possibly realize. If you want to think small, go for it. There are those of us in here more then willing to think bigger for you, and to fight for what is right.

That's what they want us to do. There is strength in numbers. Those of you who are getting discouraged are feeding right into their "Fear Factor". Where will that get you? In the same exact predicament in 4 more years.

Don't lose track of the main goal - proving that the machines and voting methods are flawed and therefore do not produce accurate results.

Oh yeah, let's give up the fight to save America's deep rooted core of democracy cause being called a conspiracy theorist is annoying.

To answer your question: Maybe because there is a "Blackout" and the news cable media is owned by Corporate interests? :eyes:

There are a lot of people working on this right now...if it doesn't happen it will not be out of lack of effort....stay tuned...

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and tyring to innoculate the people IS A GOOD THING.. this means we are making enough waves

Now will they happen? I hope they do...

If nothign else we need to get as many people as possible on board as to how easy it is TO STEAL AN ELECTION

Best case we get a FULL recount, worst case we raise conscieousness

When all is said and done it will be somehwere in the middle

The firs step is always the hardest, and we have taken it, we need to keep our eye on the price

Don't surrender!

Listen to what your heart tells you, we know there is more than enough evidence to warrant a closer look. The way I look at it is at the very least we will win the fight to ensure that future elections are not rigged or never susceptible to manipulation. I won't believe this is over until we hear what happens in OH and FL, and the other places that have had problems. It ain't over til its over. Would you feel better to just leave it the way it is? Nah...we just want to know that our votes counted & we weren't duped, nothing wrong with that.

and above all, Saint Ralph, have no reason NOT to exercise their right to see the votes audited in OH and recounted in FL.

It's going to happen at this point, and in NH too, and Kerry doesn't have to expose himself to any fire at this point for this to be true.

We did it.

I am hopeful that you are right....I wish I'd hear about it in the mainstream media....It just doesn't feel 'real' yet. I'll try and hold out hope that a recount might happen.

kris

exceedingly fine." And in this case, those who have followed the media angles on this from the get-go are all seeing that the momentum of the story is really beyond what can be stopped.

The election results will not be "reversed" by all this, in all likelihood, but this massive crime will not be gotten away with.

And unlike 2000, when only Gore could really fight for recounts, this year the third party candidates who have nothing to lose will make it happen, with only a relatively small amount of money required.

Keep the faith!

It isn't about "getting excited" or "wishful thinking". It is about DETERMINATION to do whatever you possibly can to help make sure that every vote is counted, and counted accurately. Donate some money to help. And get determined.

...but do you also believe the media when they say that Bush has a mandate?

NO! I hear what you're saying...food for thought.

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Was that directed at me? This is my first day here...I am trying to get a handle on these issues and I find myself riding the highs and lows of these posts....I find your post offensive.

This is your first day. Maybe you should ease into things and understand how the community works before you run up and take center stage. Just food for thought.

(sniff sniff, hey, you guys smell something? sniff sniff, what is that? sniff. Hmmmm. the smell of hypocrisy. Sniff Sniff, oh shit, it's coming from me!) hehehe

works here....

Welcome to the DU Newbie :hi: Enjoy our own form of reality here....

:toast:

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So is this how you guys welcome your new members? First you throw out the smils and the waves and then if the member says one thing that you disagree with you have the members with thousands of votes come out and call them names?

I am going to have to rethink whether or not I want to come here anymore.

I hope we get the recounts.....but I got a bad feeling about it after reading that even the Kerry campaign says that the election was fair....Lets just all hope I'm wrong.

what a bunch of jerks around here.

kris

Everyone is pretty suspicious of negative low post count posters. This board is pretty much infested with trolls. Sorry, it's true, everyone is pretty jumpy these days. Helps to just hang out and read and reply for a while....

And also it helps to be pretty sure of your facts. I mean, Nader's webite carries a official press release, and I've seen reports on this web board from Cobb on Radio Pacifica radio saying that he intends to request a recount.

Now, the recount may not DO anything, but the fact that Nader has request a recount, and Cobb WILL request a recount, are pretty much.... just ... facts. That have been posted all over this board. So your posting that you don't know if a recount will happen or not pretty much makes you sound like a troll. Thus, the negative reaction. I'm just 'splainin.

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Who did I attack? Do you mean that me saying someone's post was rude could be construed as an an attack? I'm no flamethrower....I expressed my DISMAY...did you notice the two :( faces?

I know all about problems with trolls...but you risk alienating what could be your 'base' here by being suspicious of anyone who says something that isn't exactly toting the party line. At the other websites that I go to, we simply "don't feed the trolls"...you have to know that all they want to do is get you upset....

It's unfortunate that it is necessary to wear an asbestos suit around here...aren't we all on the same team? And if someone comes here who wants to instigate, are we making ourselves look bad by responding in anger.

Please inform me of the minimum number of votes that I need to have before I am allowed to express both sides of the issues...my excitement and my dismay.

kris

*bump*

I'd like a response to this...I just don't think that this is how political conversations should be carried out.

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Hi I have been "lurking" for the past several weeks and I just have a question what is a freeper or a troll. I'm new to these kinds of discussion boards and being a Canadian who was amazed Bush got in started looking for some sane Americans to see what they thought of the election and I ended up linked to this site so I decided to join. I didn't realize until this election how differently Canada and the US elections are run. I really would like to know what a freeper is though.

With overtones of "demented Kool-Aid drinking idiot". It comes from the URL of their web site FreeRepublic.com. If you want a look at exactly how polarized the USA is right now, read some of the threads over there. Creep you right out, it will.
Oh, and welcome to DU from another Canuck :hi: This is one fine place - they all feel like Liberals or New Democrats around here :toast:

http://www.electionohio.com/

Get your 10 key ready, pick a county and dive on in. Be sure to save it all to disk or ask one of these nice folks to.

Or google another state, maybe one that no one is looking at and investigate.

It's up to US!

is when i give up, not before will i stop, previously I wasn't sure if i was a nut, but at this point i feel id be a nut to ignore all the statistical anomalies and bullying that is being done by the repubs. We are gonna get them, either jump on the bandwagon or get out of the way they aren't gonna get away this again, i promise you that.

I thought the inaugeration was January 20th. Does something important happen on the 5th?

There is a THEORY that someone CONSPIRED to do something bad.

The term "conspiracy theory" has gained a bit of a "whacko" patina over the years, but that's *exactly* what this is.

What "conspiracy theories" have the media reported on historically?

"conspiracy theory"

Believing that there exists a conspiracy is a perfectly ordinary thing. After all, real conspiracies happen all the time. Why, only this afternoon, I got recruited into a bona fide conspiracy to get rid of a buiding association officer. Watergate and Iran-Contra were real conspiracies. Real conspiracies have a number of attributes, including a tendency to come to the surface sooner rather than later. I fully expect my conspirarial role in the unseating of our powerful but irresponsible officer to, some day, be the stuff of building gossip.

Conspiracy theory, on the other hand, refers to a point of view that sees all the major workings of the world as orchestrated by a secret conspiracy which somehow involves thousands or even millions of people, yet nothing substantial ever seems to leak out, even over generations. The corrolary, of course, is that those who postulate these grand conspiracies have little but suspicion to build them around. The few facts they point to are more simply accounted for by ordinary explanations. In order to accomodate the many contrary facts to their grand conspiracy, conspiracy theorists need to posit that the conspiracy operates in all sorts of strange and paradoxical ways. For example, a conspiracy theorist might say the conspirators attacked themselves in order to provoke an attack from some third party which helps to cover up yet another dimension of the grand conspiracy. Most of us can think of simpler, more reliable ways to cover things up.

The hypothesis that there has been a conspiracy of the ordinary sort to alter the results of this election is not a conspiracy theory. It's the simplest explanation for the available data. As such it needs to be ruled out or confirmed with more data.