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Daily Kos: Why I Woke Up to the Reality Of Stolen Elections

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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:37 PM
Original message
Daily Kos: Why I Woke Up to the Reality Of Stolen Elections

Why I Woke Up to the Reality Of Stolen Elections


by Steven D
Sun Jun 18, 2006 at 07:52:01 AM PDT
Front paged at Booman Tribune and My Left Wing

This is a long story about a long journey.

A journey I think many of us have made over the last few years. A journey to the realization that things are not as we've been led to believe regarding our politics, our politicians, but most importantly our elections. You remember elections, don't you? They're the basis for calling our nation a representative democracy.

So where do I begin my story? With what is most fundamental about myself.

I'm a white American male.

...snip

One of the last phone calls I fielded was from a volunteer who had witnessed some election officials carrying the official ballot box at her precinct into a room where no one else could see what was going on. When she was prevented from following she called me. I asked her if any Democratic poll watchers had been present as the box was carried off. She said she wasn't sure but that she'd try to check. She called back in a little bit to say she couldn't be sure, but that now the ballot box had been taken out to someone's car and placed in his trunk. She had noticed that the official seal had been broken before the man got in his car to leave.

It doesn't seem right. Should I follow him? she asked me.

It was late. I knew she's been there all day in the rain. I knew the early reports had Kerry winning Ohio (and much of the rest of the country) based on the exit polling. Most of all I was tired and ready to get back to my Hotel and get some dinner. I made an executive decision.

No, don't worry about it, I told her. I'm sure one of the Democratic Party observers knows what's going on. Come on back.

Are you sure? She asked. Yeah, I'm sure. Just write up a report when you get back.

She said okay, and hung up.

Later that night, sitting on my hotel bed, watching TV as the "official" returns came in, I got a sick feeling in my stomach. Miraculously, stunningly, what had appeared to be an easy Kerry victory was fading away leaving behind a bitter taste in my mouth, as state after state switched from the Kerry column to the Bush column. I kept remembering that last phone call. A gnawing anxiety, fueled by my guilty conscience, began worming its way through my gut. I'd made the wrong decision. I'd fucked up big time. I finally turned off the television around 1:00 a.m. too depressed to keep watching.


Much more: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/6/18/10521/5585

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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. Booman & My Left Wing links
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 02:42 PM by MelissaB
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wasn't it Kos that disallowed talk of stolen elections?
Or am I thinking of another high-profile blog?
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I believe you are correct.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Yep. nt
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Yes - that's why I left kos and came here.
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 03:04 PM by suziedemocrat
This is THE issue for me. Nothing else comes close. Our voices will never be heard about the war, or any other issue if there aren't accurate elections.

Edit typo.
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peacetalksforall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. This is the issue for me. It bothers me that Dems raise money, hire
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 04:11 PM by higher class
workers, hold conventions, select candidates - but only a tiny few do anything about Truth to Voting.

I think it takes many Americans about three to six years for the truth to sink in. And it may take double that time to come around to condemning the Supreme Court.

But if we have:

>Republican owned hardware
>Republican owned software
>No Congressional or GAO type vetting or oversight
>Many critical 'points' at which code and switches can change things without monitoring or examination
>Republican or suspect technicians 'fixing' things during the voting
>Republican corporate news networks owning the polling company by which they own the data, subsequently allowing them to call it any which way they want
>Known and acknowledged dirty tricks pre and post election room

combined with hundreds of reports of theft and disregard for rights on many issues =

why do people believe they are honest when it's all theirs to decide?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. suziedemocrat ..i left kos for the same reason!!..i do not agree with
Markos..he is either a chicken shit on the topic..or ignorant..take your pick!

fly
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. No he didn't.
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 03:21 PM by Febble
although they didn't dominate the front page, and Kos himself was not supportive, they still dominated the diaries, and major collective effort co-ordinated and written by Georgia10 was frontpaged by Armando just before the Electoral college vote:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/2/19512/47013
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. He (Kos) did not allow the diaries to go on the front page during
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 04:06 PM by IndyOp
a crucial period of Nov/Dec 2004 -- Georgia10 and other Kossacks had to fight to get them to allow it.

On this issue DailyKoss sucks - and it is why I don't go there.
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Sure
Although there were one or two front page diaries. Hunter had a good one.

But there was plenty going on in the diaries. What I mean is that it wasn't banned, it just wasn't front-paged. And Georgia10 did a fantastic job, with the help of a lot of other diarists, and that compilation is still worth reading.

And it was front paged. And Georgia10 is now a frontpager.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Hmm... DKos comment by Armando: Banning. Purging. Booted. Expelled.
It is dated August 2005 -- but it is what I have believed is Kos' position...

No Conspiracies. No Fraudsters
by Armando
Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 09:36:19 PM PDT

Let me be the first asshole to tell you that bullshit fraud theories and bullshit conspiracy theories are not welcome.

Markos has said it. He means it.

I believe tonight was a great night and a sign that a Fighting Dem Party can and will take back the Congress in 2006.

I don't want to hear baseless theories on fraud and other nonsense. I think, no, I know markos feels the same way.

You want to waste your time, do it somewhere else.

My tip jar will be the fraudster's chance to troll rate me. Cuz once you start diarying your cock and bull fraud theories, markos will show you the door. With my applause in the background.

----And a little further down...

you have been warned here.

Banning. Purging. Booted. Expelled.

Out.

That is the consequence.


You have your own personal FAQ.

Retired from blogging

by Armando on Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 10:44:19 PM PDT

:shrug:

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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. in interpreting Armando's post, try this URL:
Edited on Mon Jun-19-06 08:35 AM by OnTheOtherHand
http://www.dailykos.com/tag/election%20fraud

It's open to interpretation what the phrases "bullshit fraud theories" and "baseless theories on fraud" mean to Armando or to Kos, but it doesn't seem to be the same as "disallowed talk of stolen elections" as per Ladyhawk. There is lots of talk of stolen elections on DKos.

Here is something in Kos's own words (mostly not about elections) -- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/114856/8349

I express no opinion on whether Kos has this one right -- I'm not even sure I have an opinion. And I doubt that's an appropriate topic for DU anyway. I'm just trying to provide more information.

(EDIT: clarified obscure subject header)
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Febble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #25
29. OK, seems my info was out of date
But it doesn't seem to have stopped the election fraud diaries.

Liberals make lousy dictators.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. Liberals make lousy dictators.
Conservatives make lousy dictators.

Dictators are lousy.

:toast:
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. No, you're absolutely correct.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let me explain why I have personally never given the 2004
election much thought, as far as it being "stolen." Feel free to set me straight, I am here to learn. Just don't hit me.

I was reading Kos (I think..altho it might have been DU) on the Wednesday that Kerry conceded, and a rather inflamed post appeared by a regular poster (don't have the link, don't remember who, but it was a person I "trusted") and basically it said that the Democratic strategy would be to spend the next four years shedding doubt on the validity of the election. NOT because the poster questioned the validity at that point, but this was put forth as a strategy for dealing with Bush.

At the time I thought that was childish and I still do. Granted, I realize there may have been irregularities, but that post just really poisoned my mind about their validity.

Okay, set me straight.
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halobeam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. IMO that person who said that (the poster) had NO facts at the time
they said that. It's denial that our country REALLY isn't a valid democracy. Invalid elections. Hard to swallow. Now we have our facts about this past election. Seems to me, the poster was dead wrong. True, democrat citizens have been talking stolen election SINCE the election, but it's because it really happened. Have the Democrat Reps or our senators been screaming about it? Not loud and not clear enough, and certainly not every day they are on the floor or in the public eye.... which is what it would take to educate the public to the TRUE FACTS. IMO. RFK Jr. got the very late, and very respected word out. Yes, better late than never, but TRUE....ALL OF IT...nonetheless.

Are you straight yet?
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Bending nicely, thank you
I guess I'm going to have to read the RFK piece with an open mind.

TG
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. RFK's Article...
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I'm not "sure" the election was stolen. I've never been "sure."
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 03:21 PM by Ladyhawk
OK, I was sure for awhile after 2004, then dropped back to re-evaluate. I'm not sure now.

Yet most of me thinks this is one case where the burden of proof is on the government rather than those who are crying, "Election Fraud!" Why? Until people are sure their votes are counted, we do not have a representative government.

Do you feel represented by your congress critters and president? I sure as hell don't. In fact, I feel it's a lost cause to call or e-mail Representative Radanovich (R). He's a neocon. He's going to do what he wants to do and I doubt he'll even log my call or my e-mail. It's a complete waste of my time. If I snail-mailed him, he'd just throw it away without answering. I've never received a reply of ANY KIND from his office and yes, I have tried to log my opinions. Feinstein sends me standard replies, but votes any way she wants to (usually the way that will make her husband richer). Boxer has done a tolerable job, but I'm still scratching my head over her Patriot Act vote. These people do what they want and I don't think the electoral process holds them accountable. When I think about replacing Radanovich or even Feinstein with someone who actually gives a shit about common middle-class and lower-class folk, all I feel is DESPAIR. DEEP, DEEP DESPAIR.

I'm a skeptical person who believes the burden of proof rests with whomever is making a positive claim. (That's why, "Oh yeah...prove God DOESN'T exist" carries very little weight with me. It's just as impossible to prove Santa Claus doesn't exist.) In the case of Election Fraud, it appears there are two sides with positive claims. The government claims that elections are fair and honest. Mark Crispin Miller, RFK, Jr. and a lot of other folks are claiming there has been fraud. In a case like this, my gut tells me that it's the government's job to prove to us that elections are fair and honest. Do you see them rushing to do this? Hell, no.

Maybe someone can give a better "logical" position as to why the government bears the burden of proof. As a skeptic, I don't think "my gut" is a good enough answer. Any takers? :)
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Not just not rushing to prove it's all honest and fair.
The Republicans are working overtime to prevent anything resembling an audit or an investigation. Why is it so important to them to prevent paper ballots or machine audits? If there is nothing fishy going on, then having an investigation, paper ballots, or an audit would prove that, and then they would be able to really claim a clear mandate.
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suziedemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Without a link it's hard to reply to that.
Edited on Sun Jun-18-06 03:16 PM by suziedemocrat
I was all over kos just after the election (I was a poll-worker, so after the polls closed)and I never heard ANYTHING about it being a democratic strategy..
I was making calls before the election for the Democrats in a college town in a red state. One of the callers had just read a book about black box voting and was very concerned about the election. I told the campaign manager and she dismissed him as a "nut." The Democrats where I'm from were NOT entertaining any thoughts of vote tampering. I also remember on kos, that talk of election fraud was verboten.

It sounds like the poster was speculating, but it's impossible to discuss something you vaguely remember without seeing it myself.
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TallahasseeGrannie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I'll see if I can find it
I remember it was very disappointing to read. But I just don't remember whether it was an inflamed 18-year old or what. I guess I better find it since it obviously affected me negatively. Maybe time passed will be helpful. I'm sure some RW blog has it framed on their front page. I'll search.
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neoblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. There are other docudentiary or evimentary
documentary/evidentiary videos on election fraud out there... watched them long ago, and don't remember which was which or where so I can't give you links, but not too long ago, I enjoyed this one with Mark Crispin Miller at Amherst, Massachusetts talking about his book "Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)"...
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. TG - Please take time to investigate claims of election fraud...
When I refer to fraud I mean voter suppression, dirty campaign/election tricks, and computer-system fraud. Stealing elections these days means doing some of each and Democratic Party members should be aware of and fighting them all. We can have excellent candidates and excellent campaigns and if the elections are not free & fair then we don't "win".

Congresswoman Schakowsky 'Apologizes' for Not Taking Allegations of Stolen 2004 Election Seriously! Was it Stolen? 'Only Answer is Yes,' says Schakowsky who Claims Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee to Announce Steps Soon to Avoid 'Repeat Performance' Question: Would the DCCC be coming out with steps to avoid election theft if they did not believe election theft was happening?

Votergate - The Movie <http://www.votergate.com>
It does not address 2004 - but it does do an excellent job of explaining the weaknesses of the system. Once you understand how *outrageously* vulnerable the systems are then your perspective on whether/how elections are being stolen changes. Votergate incluces video of San Diego pollworker told to take voting machines home!!

VotersUnite.org http://www.votersunite.org /
:redbox: Listings of local election justice groups
:redbox: Voting system failures by vendor and by state
:redbox: Report: Mythbreakers: Facts about electronic elections
:redbox: Report: Vote-switching provided by vendors
:redbox: Report: Problems with ballot programming
:redbox: Report: US GAO: Electronic voting not yet secure and reliable
:redbox: Handout: Maps of election problems
:redbox: Handout: 10 types of DRE problems
:redbox: Handout: Pre-election testing

VoteTrustUSA.org http://www.votetrustusa.org /
:redbox: Read the Daily News!
:redbox: Subscribe to the Election Integrity Weekly Newsletter
:redbox: Report: Poll Monitors’ and Poll Workers’ Guide to Electronic Voting

VerifiedVoting.org http://www.verifiedvoting.org /
:redbox: Resolution on Electronic Voting
:redbox: Election Administration Project: Best practices for reliable elections
:redbox: The Election Incident Reporting System (EIRS)
:redbox: The Verifier: Shows election systems used nationwide
:redbox: Handouts: Election Protection Questionnaires for State Election Officials, Local Election Officials, Pre-Election Testing (Logic & Accuracy Testing), Election Day Incident Reporting, and Litigation

People for the American Way: Civic Participation http://www.pfaw.org /
:redbox: Election Protection Program includes volunteer poll monitors, civil rights lawyers and advocates who preserve access to the polls, expose and prevent voter intimidation, work with election officials to identify and solve problems with new voting machines, technology and ballot forms, and protect voter rights.




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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thank you for this succinct--and quite colorful--list. :)
I'm sure TG will have a look. I know I will. I want to educate myself better about this stuff, but health concerns get in the way. It's probably enough that I don't trust the system and if that's the case, this needs to be the number one issue.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
24. TallahasseeGrannie...here's a resource where you can look into
this and take your time... no one will bug you, it's like a library;)

www.electionfraudnews.com

Cheers.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-18-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
23. Look at this, that guy has guts. He and all KOS folks deserve an apology!


They won't get it but they deserve it. What a dreadful, anti-democratic piece of drivel this
statement is! How on earth...speechless...Salon.Com isn't this bad.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/8/3/03619/14280

No Conspiracies. No Fraudsters
by Armando

Tue Aug 02, 2005 at 09:36:19 PM PDT

Let me be the first asshole to tell you that bullshit fraud theories and bullshit conspiracy theories are not welcome.

Markos has said it. He means it.

I believe tonight was a great night and a sign that a Fighting Dem Party can and will take back the Congress in 2006.

I don't want to hear baseless theories on fraud and other nonsense. I think, no, I know markos feels the same way.

You want to waste your time, do it somewhere else.

My tip jar will be the fraudster's chance to troll rate me. Cuz once you start diarying your cock and bull fraud theories, markos will show you the door. With my applause in the background.

* Armando's diary :: ::

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. I left DailyKos and ended up at DU, because DailyKos was very clearly
suppressing news of election fraud. I strongly suspected fraud--perpetrated in the Bushite-corporate controlled, new and untested electronic voting systems--not only because of the inherent non-transparency of the vote counting, but also because of the dramatic switch from a Kerry win to a Bush win late on election day. It did not make sense. DU was the only blog where investigation was featured and permitted to proceed full bore. And what an investigation it was! I marvel at what we did here in the months after the election.

To me, the 2004 election is very simple. Tom Delay & the Anthrax Congress (in 2002) appropriated nearly $4 billion to convert our election system from one in which the votes are counted in public view, into one in which the votes are counted electronically with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code--code so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it--owned and controlled by large electronics firms with very close ties to the Bush regime.

Non-transparent elections are not elections. They are tyranny.

You really don't need to know much else. They DIDN'T WANT a transparent election in 2004, or ever again. Transparent elections are not difficult. People vote, and you count the votes in public. The biggest crooks in Congress--Delay, Bob Ney and Bilderberg 'Democrat' Christopher Dodd--and their co-conspirators in the White House and at Diebold and ES&S, created the exact opposite of a transparent election. These two corporations--and the third big player, Sequoia (also with close ties to the Republican Party)--recently conspired against an honest election official in Florida (Ion Sancho) who had tested Diebold machines, found them insecure, and banned them in his district. The OTHER two corps then refused to do business with him. He needed them to satisfy a disabilities voting provision of HAVA. A racketeering investigation has been initiated. This disturbing event is the tip of the iceberg. We might as well have organized crime running our elections.

The infamous "Help America Vote Act" is the bullying law that coerced state election officials into hasty purchase of expensive, insecure and extremely hackable voting systems, with plenty of money flowing to bribe and entice election officials into foolish, glitzy purchases, and to punish those who demanded some controls (by withholding the funds). In addition to creating this $4 billion boondoggle, HAVA failed to ban 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY vote counting programming code, failed to require even a paper trail for audits and recounts (let alone a real paper ballot backup)--which resulted in one third of the nation's vote being completely unrecountable in 2004--failed to ban partisan vendors (two corporations with very close ties to the Bush junta stepped right in--Diebold and ES&S--and ended up tabulating 80% of the nation's vote in 2004, behind a veil of secrecy), failed to control lavish lobbying of election officials and legislators, permitted secret industry "testing" of the machines, and failed to provide any proper regulation of this new industry.

Everything flows from this. The exit poll discrepancy, for instance (Kerry won the real exit polls) takes place in the CONTEXT of this pervasive corruption of the election system and clear intent to render it NON-TRANSPARENT, evident long before the election. The mystery of the Democratic Party's great success in new voter registration in 2004, a nearly 60/40 edge over the Republicans, NOT translating into an electoral win, as it should have, is thus more explicable. People were flocking to the Democratic Party for a reason, and it wasn't to vote for Bush--it was to oust him. That 60/40 edge in new voters was swallowed up by the Bushite-controlled voting machines. Cheney or Rove later explained their victory by their "invisible" get-out-the vote campaign--in a typical pre-written narrative of events. There is no evidence--none!--that they had significant GOTV success. The real evidence--not the phony narrative--reveals the exact opposite.

Also, the heady power of secret vote tabulation led to other abuses, to supplement their invisible vote stealing--perhaps out of necessity: The blatant, cruel, illegal suppression of poor, black and other Democratic votes in Ohio and other states, for which there are volumes and volumes of evidence.

That's the story. Means. Motive. Opportunity. Would these notorious liars and criminals USE the non-transparent election system that THEY had set up, to steal an election for an unpopular president and his immensely unpopular war and other dreadful policies, such as torture, and huge, out of control, unaccountable spending?

What do you think?

The case for election fraud 2004 is necessarily largely inferential because the perpetrators deliberately set up a non-transparent vote count. They also corrupted and pressured the election system in every way possible, with Republican election officials and other operatives going the limit in unfairness and secrecy. Those who demand "proof positive" are failing to see the forest for the trees. There is an overwhelming PATTERN of illegality, secrecy and illegitimacy in this election, that was initiated by HAVA itself, and its failure to ban "trade secret" programming code and failure to require paper ballots and adequate auditing. Kerry's win of the exit polls (and the corporate news consortium's falsifying of the exit polls--in impossible ways--to make them FIT the results of Diebold/ES&S's secret vote counting software--occurred in this CONTEXT of ill intent, secrecy, non-transparency and illegal war.

Think about it. 2004 saw the first nationwide test-out of these new electronic voting systems. A paper ballot backup and a 100% recount should have been REQUIRED. Any good government and representative Congress would have done so. There was ill intent here--very ill intent--and very bad government.

And think, too, about the Anthrax Congress. The fear was palpable. How much of the Democratic Party leadership's mind-boggling silence about Bushite corporations counting all our votes in secret is attributable to fear? Some of it is corruption, surely. But I think much of it was/is fear. Now they're stuck with it--they, too, are beholden to Diebold and ES&S, and to corrupt election officials around the country who promote these non-transparent voting systems.

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies, who brought us the doctored exit polls, also wrote "Mission Accomplished." Then they wrote the American peoples' endorsement of illegal war and torture and $10 trillion deficits. Quite a fictional enterprise. It is no surprise that they doctored a few facts (the real exit poll results) to support their pre-written narrative, and that they have black-holed both the pre-election facts of the Bushite/corporate corruption of our election system, AND its result. They colluded in the stolen election, just as they did in 2000, only worse.

Financial criminals have been prosecuted and put in jail on less evidence than this. Means--they themselves created the means. Motive--to overrule the American people on the war and other issues, and to destroy our sovereign right to hold our government accountable through open and fair elections. Opportunity--they had ample opportunity (one hacker, a couple of minutes, leaving no trace). (--the scene of the crime was likely the central electronic vote tabulators, in the various states--also run on "trade secret" programming--the last stop for these electrons--your votes?--before going to an Associated Press computer, thence to the news consortium pollster, where they were mixed with the exit polls to concoct a Bush win out of thin air).

I didn't understand INTENT until well into the 2004 election investigation. I understood motive, of course--and I reviewed all the evidence, including the sidebar of the exit poll discrepancy naysayers, who have seemed intent on getting everybody to ignore the CONTEXT and to engage in distracting and obscure academic controversies about statistics. When you learn more about HAVA, and who pushed this terrible, democracy-killing bill through Congress, the overall picture that we are looking at--all of the evidence taken together--comes into better focus. Why do we NEED exit polls to tell us who won an American election? Because of the non-transparency of "trade secret" vote tabulation. Why were the "official results" so non-transparent? Because the Bushites DID NOT WANT a transparent election. Why would the corporate news monopolies be silent about this NEW non-transparency--and this NEW partisan control of the vote count? And why--given this brand new, largely untested voting system--would they not insist on using the exit polls as a tool to verify the election and check for fraud, as exit polls are used everywhere else in the world? When you focus on INTENT (on Tom Delay & Co. and HAVA), and on CONTEXT, on the blatant, deliberately created non-transparency ("trade secret" programming, no paper trail), and start asking these kinds of questions, the evidence--including the real exit polls, which are just one piece of an overwhelming evidential picture--forms an unmistakable pattern of election fraud in 2004, and points to a conspiracy to commit it.

If you leave INTENT out of it, and ignore CONTEXT, and engage in arguments about what might be true, or what might explain some piece of the evidence--for instance, what might explain the discrepancy found in several studies between electronic and paper ballot votes (electronic always favoring Bush)--you end up in fantasyland. It's not that evidence shouldn't be rigorously examined. It should be. But when evidence analysis looks for any explanation apart from election fraud, and ignores possible fraud as an explanation--thus ignoring intent and context--for instance, ignoring Tom Delay's obstruction of a paper trail provision for electronic voting--the conclusions lack any sense of reality (as do the conclusions of the exit poll discrepancy naysayers, who have wasted the time of election fraud investigators on fanciful alternative explanations of Kerry's win of the exit polls that have no basis in fact or reality).

The history of HAVA leads straight to today, and Bush ignoring the will of 70% of the American people on the Iraq War. Means. Motive. Opportunity. Context. Intent. The election SYSTEM was fraudulent, and still is. And its results were fraudulent in 2004.











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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. non-transparency isn't new
Even electronic voting arguably isn't new, although I won't argue that. And the DRE and optical scan returns don't stand out, anyway. (When I point this out, people sometimes complain that I'm ignoring all the other ways that the election could be stolen -- but when I stop pointing it out, those people seem to go right back to the "stealer machines.")

The dance of approach/avoidance on exit poll evidence here is familiar enough. What is the "CONTEXT" that explains how Kerry won New York by 30 or more points? Is it really "fanciful" to think that he didn't? It's a cute talking point, but does it really make the least bit of sense?

Hey, believe what you want.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #27
32. Means, Motive and Opportunity. It was all there ready to be exploited.
Blackwell went down to FL right after the election to pick up a few tips and dirty tricks. The GOP did everything in their power to suppress the votes of Democrats. He used last minute suppressive directives (remember the 80 lbs paper issue while his office was utilizing forms that did not correspond?) Usually purges are done in off years, but Blackwell decided to purge in '04. One has only to look what counties were targeted (high Dem) and what areas of those counties (inner cities). Misinformation, caging and challenges were another way to suppress especially African American voters who vote ~ 90% of the time for Dems. Blackwell also consolidated a lot of long standing precincts, again in inner cities (he said that less were needed due to the efficiency of the machines, but in most cases the old machines were used. If you were at the right location, but tables were poorly marked , you were given a provisional ballot. If you voted provisionally at the correct location, but wrong table BZZZT your vote didn't count.(then State Senator Mark Mallory from Hamilton Co experienced this) Greg Palast does an excellent job on uncounted votes in his new best seller Armed Madhouse. Vote flipping, (MCM tells of State Senator Hagen from Mahoning County, who experienced it himself)

I agree PP, this was a long thought out process in suppressing Dem votes. Ohioans deserved a revote. The ugly UN AMERICAN techniques that were used were a travesty to justice. We must ignore distractors who use labels to denounce this and tell us to simply move on. NEVER, until the truth is acknowledged!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-19-06 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
28. Kos himself needs to wake up.
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