Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Do any e-voting systems leave a paper trail?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
 
sandboxface Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:06 PM
Original message
Do any e-voting systems leave a paper trail?
I am confused about this. I read somewhere that some states have a paper trail with their e-voting systems. Is this true? Does Diebold do paper trail?


I'm writing a paper on this. Thanks for your help!

:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
AmyCrat Donating Member (721 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nevada I think is the only one n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Read that too. And also read the guy that invented that machine died
in a plane crash. Machine prints 2 reciepts, one for voter, one for the house.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. "receipt" is behind glass and remains with the machine.
Voters don't get to take ANYTHING home with them.

I know.

I voted on one.

But you're allowed to inspect the printed version before officially "casting" your vote to make it permanent.

There were at least 3 oportunities to change or correct your vote before the die was cast permanently.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
henslee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Nice. Thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Nevada doesn't really have all that many machines w/printers
I think the truth is in this thread:

Could this be how Bushass took the 2 percent in Nevada??
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1859#1872


culled from my compendium:

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandboxface Donating Member (337 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. Thanks, this was very helpful!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. They said on the news this morning that ALL electronic voting machines
the same paper trial mechanism I described above, and all the e-voting machines are the same.

Don't know if ALL machines are e-voting ones, tho.

We're the only ones in the enire country with this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. Aren't there some evoting systems
that print a receipt that you verify to make sure it registered your vote properly, and then you drop it into a box - so there's something to recount if necessary?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arcos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. the Diebold machines Brazil uses have a paper trail n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ChicanoPwr Donating Member (536 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. Texas yes and no
The Texas statue requires, but because it is TX, they leave loopholes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gabby Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. voting machines
Have you tried looking at the manufacturer's web site. They may have a discussion of their different voting machines available.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FREEDOMRULES3 Donating Member (45 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. maryland touchscreen
i voted on a touchscreen in maryland. not sure who actually made it (diebold or not). they gave me a card to put in it that supposedly records your vote. i then gave the card to someone who put it in a locked box.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tech3149 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
9. Venezuela uses Ollivetti machines that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dark Secret Donating Member (99 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Optical Scanning ES&S machines leave Paper
So much of FL could be recounted.
It's my understanding that most of the touchscreens with no paper were localized in the heavily Democratic counties like Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
saddemocrat Donating Member (294 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. recount
Lets HOPE!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Oh like THAT'S not obvious
Jeez talk about stacking the deck
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wlubin Donating Member (190 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
12. I think I heard somewhere that NH by law has to have a paper trail.
Therefore given the fact that NH does use the black boxes i guess one could conclude that their black boxes do have a paper trail?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
alittlelark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:52 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yes, some do, but even I could write a program that would
create a piece of paper at odds w/ what the 'official tally' is Print-out says vote for x, harddrive says vote for z. Simple.


The only way to have these machines work is with 3 info trails: 1 in the HD, 1 as a scroll or tear off (in a secure re-count box) that the voter initializes, and, and one that the voter takes home.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-11-04 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
18. All the ones in Venezuela had a voter-verifiable paper trail.
They demanded technology they could count on. We're too low class here in the U.S.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
19. AccuPoll and Avante's Vote Trakker
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
PoiBoy Donating Member (842 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-12-04 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
20. TruVote Systems... an opportunity?
After the "questionable" results of the 2000, 2002 and 2004 elections, I will NEVER have faith in voting machines manufactured by Diebold, ES&S or Sequioa ever again...

If and when fraud and/or computer "glitches" are exposed, do we let our legislators and election supervisors allow Diebold, ES&S or Sequoia to "fix" their machines, yet keep them in place for us to use in future elections? I for one, think not...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG411A.html
<snip>
Athan Gibbs’ TruVote system was described as ''one of the most promising technologies in the world for fixing democracies". In the wake of the 2000 presidential elections, where than 1 million votes went uncounted for Athan Gibbs invented the TruVote vote-casting system:

"TruVote allows voters to touch their candidates' names on a computer screen and receive receipts of their vote at the end of the process. They can then go to a Web site, punch in their voter validation number and make sure their vote was recorded." (The Tennessean.com, 14 March 2004).
<end>

TruVote is a system that has impressive potential, and was attracting a lot of interest around the country as it began the validation process...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2619674
<snip>
TruVote, provides two separate voting receipts. The first is shown under plexiglass, and displays the choices made by a vote on the touch screen. This copy falls into a lockbox after the voter approves it. The second is provided to the voter. TruVote is already attracting fans, among them Brooks Thomas, Tennessee's Coordinator of Elections. "I've not seen anything that compares to TruVote validation system
<end>

...another review of the TruVote system...

http://www.technologycouncil.com/news.ez?viewStory=701
<snip>
Sterling offers his view of TruVote's advantage: "The TruVote system offers a voter-verifiable paper ballot that is printed under glass. The voter does not get to handle the paper ballot. The system allows the voter to verify the information on the paper ballot before the vote is actually cast. As such, we always have an independent paper audit trail for manual recounts. In addition, a second (optional) take-home receipt is printed that allows the voter to verify that their vote was indeed received, recorded and counted as intended. In addition, the TruVote system offers a state-of-the-art ADA interface allowing a voter to vote using voice recognition, numeric keypad or a touchscreen interface, all with an audio ballot. Setting up an election is extremely easy with the integrated ballot creation tools which come standard with the system."
<end>

This is a system that has enormous potential to bring credibility and peace of mind back to the election process. unfortunately...

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CRG411A.html
<snip>
Athan Gibbs devoted his life "to making sure voters in future elections would know their votes mattered". He died in a mysterious car crash on Interstate highway 65 in Tennessee in March 2004
<end>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2619674
<snip>
Gibbs’ death bears heightened scrutiny because of the way he lived his life after the 2000 Florida election debacle. I interviewed Athan Gibbs in January of this year. “I’ve been an accountant, an auditor, for more than thirty years. Electronic voting machines that don’t supply a paper trail go against every principle of accounting and auditing that’s being taught in American business schools,” he insisted.

“These machines are set up to provide paper trails. No business in America would buy a machine that didn’t provide a paper trail to audit and verify its transaction. Now, they want the people to purchase machines that you can’t audit? It’s absurd.”
<end>

http://www.tennessean.com/business/archives/04/11/60549101.shtml
<snip>
Gibbs formed the Nashville-based company because of his concerns about punch-card ballot problems during the 2000 presidential election. But he died in a car accident in March before an updated version of his company's software system, which prints a receipt as proof of a person's vote, went into testing.

Since then, TruVote has lost interim president and former Chief Financial Officer Adrienne Brandon and has yet to name a new president. Brandon left the company in August.

Its offices in the Nashville Business Incubation Center are closed, and TruVote hasn't done any elections work since voting at a sorority convention here in July. Still, acting Chairman and Corporate Secretary Harvey Hoskins insists TruVote will live on.
<end>

It seems that the company is looking for a new president and investors. It's product and limited track record are very impressive and the product is a viable competitor against the other voting machines on the market. It's my hope that progressive investors would get involved with this company before the repug money machine washes it out of existence.

Perhaps this is a company that we can get behind to offer as a viable solution to our legislators and communities to effect real change quickly.

We've seen the resources that we progressives have when we come together as an activism block. Millions were raised for Dr. Dean, MoveOn.org, John Kerry, and now BBV. We had hundreds of lawyers and other professionals activated at the polls this past week. We have the anger and the desire...

http://www.tennessean.com/business/archives/04/03/48811616.shtml
<snip>
The 57-year-old Gibbs died as the company is on the verge of seeking certification for an improved second version of the TruVote system from the National Association of State Elections Directors. Brandon sees that as a top priority along with raising about $5 million of capital and hiring a permanent chief executive officer "with operational skills the company needs to be a leader in its market."

She declined to comment on finances of the five-employee company but said she's confident it will be able to raise the money and keep going. TruVote also is seeking partnerships in addition to its relationship with software giant Microsoft, which has provided help in testing the system and access to its government relations team for lobbying help.

Finding other strategic partners and tapping into funding sources such as government grants would be significant to TruVote's survival, said John Burch, the president of Nashville-based Capital Market Advisors. "What they need is a hard-headed businessman with some deep pockets, who's got enough (mass) to negotiate with a Microsoft, NCR and some other people," said Burch, who also speaks well of Brandon.
<end>

I demand a verified and accountable audit trail, and stronger criminal penalties for voter intimidation and suppression tactics that we've seen in play since 2000.

We have the momentum in every part of our country to put verified ballot initiatives and anti-voter intimidation legislation on the ballot for next year's election cycle. But we must move quickly and decisively.

FWIW, here's a well written article on Mr. Gibbs and the TruVote system...
http://blackonomics.com/lead.ihtml?id=262

It seems as if a TruVote project may be a worthy project, but that's just one man's opinion. What do you think? What can we do?


:hi:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Apr 20th 2024, 03:07 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC