No matter what comes of the re-count efforts: DU HAS HAD A HUGE IMPACT ON

OUR DEMOCRACY.

People have lost faith in the system slowly over the past several years.

The worst that can come from the Hard work of some of our DU-ers and others, is that faith in the integrity of our election process is strengthened.

The outcome will be one of the following:

1. We'll find fraud and Kerry will win ... eventually, or they'll have to re-vote in some places.

2. We'll find fraud/irregularities though not enough to impact the outcome of this election, it will bring about change.

3. We'll find that the system (though flawed) is essentially sound and people will be more motivated to vote in the future.

Looking into this situation is a win/win for democracy.

Cheers to my fellow DU-ers who all worked so hard to bring this issue forward regardless of what happens next.

:toast:

I am amazed at what our collective efforts have already accomplished. Just goes to show you the internet has changed the fabric of society as we know it.

:toast: right back at ya

:toast:

if Diebold goes down, and iff paper trails are required everywhere, it was a total success. Anything less, democracy loses.

technology?

now if we could get that nationwide...

all voter-verifiable paper trail machines. The Sec'y of State ordered 740 machines (out of some 3500) in Clark County retrofitted for this election--so he could put one in each polling place--but the bulk of them won't be retrofitted till 2006.

Seems like Nevada is a wee bit overhyped.

I got this from "It's the Privatization, Stupid!": http://trytodenythis.tripod.com/voteprivatization/ which somebody posted a link to in an earlier thread. There's some other interesting info there too...

I was under the impression that Nevada had gone all printer...

Republican Secretary of State Dean Heller met with Rove and Bush at the Reno Airport Best Western in October 2003 just before he announced in December 03 that the state would be purchasing Sequoia Electronic Voting machines with printers to verify votes, for the 2004 election.

Funny thing is that Las Vegas was the only area for which they were "unable" to get printers in time for 2004 Presidential election...Las Vegas votes comprise the vast percentage of Nevada votes. Bush only won the state by 2% and there is no paper trail for ONLY the area from which most of the registered democrats voted.

What I think is cool, in addition to that, is that we are seeing massive participation and interest by the common person in the voting process, as well as the power of the Internet community at this point to force certain issues into the light.

yes, there's a lot of speculation that goes on with everyone talking(most of which probably is inaccurate), but because everyone gets equal vote, the bad ideas eventually get weeded out and the good ones grow stronger.

The average guy might have had concerns about the election but would have said little and been able to do nothing about them. Suddenly we have people from all walks of life -- professionals or otherwise -- evaluating data, sharing knowledge, passing information, and being able to support each other and band together. The evolution of an online cause (in this case, over ten days) has been pretty impressive -- even the mainstream media is now starting to talk about it, pro or con.

That's a lot of power that the average guy would not have had ten years ago.

I know people who were discouraged after the election (my mother for one) who said "These elections are rigged, I'm never voting again!"

Well if that's the case we need a change, and if it's not we have to restore confidence.

This is very new and I think the MSM is just now getting freaked out about us. We were novel and kind of cute before the election, now we're reporting what they aren't and they're defensive. Not only that, but their ratings are declining as more people discover far better news sources online.

Good to have you here, Fortunato! :hi:

My thanks to all of my fellow DUers.




Most of all we've got to keep telling the truth
louder than they are Lying.


:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

will have permanantly affixed itself to dumbya's so called "landslide".

He must be furious.

The stench of fraud - will taint him permanently

I thought the people on DU were at least partly responsible for bringing the Plame matter to the light of day (after Wilson accused Rove of leaking his wife's name yet no mainstream media had covered it yet).

But this is the clearest case of all where DU - maybe single-handedly - took an issue from our forums, to the blogs (Olbermann) and alternative media (Democracy Now), to mainstream media (MSM).

Congratulations DU. We are making the news.

This is democracy at it's very essence. Strange how revealing the truth usually has a degree of effort involved.

AND, I believe that given what we have found, even if they shut down the internet completely, we have the knowledge that this great percentage of Americans who feel like we do, exists. We could ressurect our cause with dixie cups, if need be.

I can't say this too many times. If we don't clean up those machines, we will NEVER AGAIN have a real election in this nation, and that is scary.

So if nothing else comes from all this, the machine problem MUST be addressed. And it will, if we all keep the pressure on and get more people educated about it!

ahead of the simplistic nay-saying of the MSM, retain our momentum, and make sure the recounts happen. Send money - I did! I'll send more! DU rocks the world.

all we can do is think, talk, write, donate, just keep battling.

I've thought of starting a separate thread, but haven't found the time, so I'll just add something here.

I want to ask for a commitment from everyone who's working on this issue here at DU.

If the uproar that the MSM is grousing about continues, there will come a time when the Bush Cabal (i.e., Rove) WILL need to put a clamp on it. Their typical methodology is to change the subject, as all of you know very well.

My fears about this have escalated today and yesterday along these lines. First, was an article about Chris Hedges, a former NYT journalist who's written several books. Here's the quote from the article that got my attention (in bold):


"We are losing the war in Iraq very badly, but the Bush administration will not walk away from the debacle without trying to reoccupy huge swaths of the territory they have lost," Hedges said. While working for The New York Times, he covered fighting in Central America, the Balkans and the Middle East, including Iraq during the first Gulf War.

To regain territory lost in Iraq, it will take double or triple the current 140,000 troops, Hedges said during the last lecture in a series called "The Costs of War."

The reservists and National Guard members who make up half of the U.S. forces are stretched to the breaking point and need relief, he said, and the draft is the only way to assemble the numbers needed. Reintroduction of the draft will be made in the name of the war on terrorism soon after an attack in the United States or abroad, he predicted.

http://www.nyjournalnews.com/print_newsroom/110504/b10w05wartalk.html

------------

The other quote, from today, was from Drudge, claiming that Osama bin Laden had gotten "religious approval to use a nuclear bomb against the United States."
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash2.htm

Anything of the sort -- any terrorist attack -- will DEFINITELY take this issue of vote fraud completely out of everyone's minds.

That's the commitment I'm asking for, of those of you working on this: that we will all (or at least most of us) absolutely continue on working on this until we get resolution, that we NOT drop it in the aftermath of another awful terrorist attack (after a suitable period of grieving or whatever, of course).

Who's in?

This needs to be a seperate thread. The link to the drudgereport article scared the crap out of me. I am an newbie here, so I will ask a newbie question. Is this article legit?

I for one, won't stop until I'm satisfied with our voting system.

Maybe he can add this to our "conspiracy theory" - prediction of an attack to divert attention. Long shot, but maybe.

I have wondered if Rove would have their buddy Bin nuke Ohio to destroy evidence. Nothing is beyond stretch of the imagination with this crowd.

By the above suggestion, I mean even if it did hit the airwaves somewhere prominent - that one of our wild "conspiracy theories" goes as far as saying the WH would stage an attack to divert attention - it might deflect such an attack? That's the long shot I referred to.
A way, perhaps, to use our conspiracy theorists tag for good.

I'm new here, and am certinly not one of the key players here. But I have been working hard on this issue where I can by spreading the word, and using the information I find here as talking points. I support you 100%, and will continue to do so for as long as it takes. No surrender.

:toast:

Because only good can come from it.

The only two possible outcomes are:

1) You identify an error which needs to be corrected.
2) You verify everything is working properly.

Both good results.

If our country's voting process was put to the test against a large, ISO-certified, company's most complex process, which one do you think would generate highest confidence in the process participants?

:toast:

and a huge impact on me, too.

otherwise i'd be in a terrible funk.

instead i'm feeling motivated.

i live in PA - less than 2 years and we'll get rid of santorum!

THANK YOU DU

:toast:

thanks