Is there any chance that this election will be overturned?

When I am here it sounds like it could be. When I listen to or read anything else it does not. My understanding is this: the Electoral College still has to officially vote on Dec 12. Is there any chance that recounts will change the outcome in any so-called Bush states to cause a late game upset? Does BushCo realize this and that is why they are ramming so much shit through so damn fast with their supposed "mandate?"

presumption of being the winner, just like they did in 2000. It creates a bigger hurdle to leap over, to get not only the law to turn things around, but also to turn public opinion around.

Of course, over 50% of public opinion would be happy as clams! :D

And part of kkkarl's scheme all along, IMHO. The whole voter intimidation thing in OH that created so many provisional ballots keeps OH in _**'s column long enough to plant the seed in the minds of the whores and the sheeple that _** won. If OH miraculously turns blue, the _regressives will scream that Kerry stole it, even though no one has officially been declared the winner yet.

becomes president. But that doesn't mean that the SCOTUS won't step in or Congress.

he gets the electoral votes and he goes on to be the president.
Supremes cannot have any thing to do with it. If the votes are recounted that is the way it goes. Not every state has certified the vote for that state yet. His concession is not binding.

The recounts in NH and OH are a major step and probably our only hope. It's our only way to point out irregularities before the Elector College vote. Otherwise, the possibility will be nil.

But it doesn't matter. These things need to be looked at. There's a good case for fraud, and irregularities at least. That needs National discussion. If the chimp is installed, we need to make sure he knows the people are watching.

Just remember how few people in the print press or other media thought there could be a chance that Saddam had no WMD. The press have proven themselves to be very out of touch with reallity.

If we don't have that, I don't think the recounts will help... Look who's in charge of everything, everywhere... They won't allow it... Unless we can prove something... Anything... Then we can raise all hell and make a ton of noise... Until then, we wait...

It was proven there were no WMDs. People are still DYING right now in Iraq.

We can prove the election was fraudulent, but we don't have the power to do anything about it.

Just as with the WMDs, the smirking chimp will make a joke out of it and keep escalating the war, and helping his war-profiteering friends.

But we need the recounts and we need the proof. We need to keep working. As more and more people in the world understood that they'd been lied to about WMDs, they began forcing the "coalition of the willing" to withdraw their troops from Iraq. The chimp is increasingly isolated. The value of the dollar is falling. He is still surrounded by good friends, like the convicted-then-pardoned Iran-Contra felons in his administration, and his good friend Putin. But he has apparently begun to alienate even his good friends the Saudis. The proof of election fraud won't get us anywhere in the U.S. Congress or courts, but when introduced into foreign parliaments it can change their policy towards the U.S. Illegitimate governments are usually recognized only by other illegitimate governments.

At some point the decent people of the world will unite to defeat fascism. History tells us that fascist regimes always fail. Unfortunately it also tells us that they are likely to take a few billion of us with them.

First, let me start by stating that I have trouble with the official results and believe that Kerry really won. However, I have not seen the type of proof so far that will hold up in court.

It is not going to be easy to overturn the results to date. It is going to take evidence of actual fraud such as a Diebold worker coming forward or actual recounts that shows a clear problem. I have been following what has happen to date and there is still not enough to go to court on.

To go to court. We need a recount to show that Kerry in fact won Ohio or Florida.

If that happens..... No Court Necessary.

if the recount show fraud, if Kerry really won in Ohio, it will give all of us a huge push out of our homes and into the streets. If the recount shows no change in results (which I really doubt could happen!) I hope it doesn't deflate what's starting to grow in the disatisfied. That's what I fear. That we will be let down again, and this time not even trust ourselves!

If there's no proof of fraud after the inverstigations, what can we do? Although we all know damn well how this went down, our hands are tied without proof...

BUT

God help them, and I mean that with every ounce of passion and patriotism in me folks, GOD HELP THEM, the investigations result in proof of even ONE instance of fraud...

OUT OF OUR HOMES AND INTO THE STREETS IT WILL BE...

It's about EVERY election from now on -- if we do not correct these problems with these black box machines we will NEVER again be sure that we are really electing the candidates truly chosen by the will of the people!

any culprits down at a later date, if there is fraud. Don't you remember Watergate? It took 2 miserable years, but it happened.

Also, these rumors floating around for the next for years are not going to help Shrub's popularity, and will help our candidates in future elections.

Assuming that we HAVE real elections and not just excercises in using the Black Box.

keeps talking about! Buh-bye! Ha!

What if they DO find that Kerry won Ohio? What then?

Of course we know that Repubs will fight it tooth and nail but what if the votes are actually there?

Wonder what the Constitutional lawyers are doing these days?

If they won, they won, and we've got work to do.

FC

"What if they DO find that Kerry won Ohio? What then?

Of course we know that Repubs will fight it tooth and nail but what if the votes are actually there?

Wonder what the Constitutional lawyers are doing these days?"

Well Gore won the popular vote in 2000 and the pubs excuse was the only thing that matters is the electoral college. If this does flip to Kerry in the electoral count what will their excuse be, that DUHbya won the popular vote. Take about having your cake and eating it too.

will follow from that.

I sort of wish there was a strategy section of this board where we could direct our efforts and outrage into useful channels. Funding the recounts is exactly what we need right now. The most damning evidence we have right now are the exit polls, and I for one can't see how there is any spinning away of that.

Fund the recount everyone. Go now and donate.

Help America Recount: http://www.helpamericarecount.org/contribute.html
Help Nader Recount: https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/sd/donorcustom.asp?c=luIWLaP4G&b=107836&kntaw3123=4C152B1031A94CF2819C55569D08EF3F
Help Greens/Libertarians Recount: http://web.greens.org/c/cobb/supporters.cgi?function=donate

$50 for the restoration of our trust in our democracy is a small price to pay.

otherwise, it's four more years of hell.


"Shove it !" - Teresa Heinz Kerry

there is an invisible chance. This is against my better judgment really, but hope springs eternal.

Speculation is useless. If I knew beyond a reasonable doubt nothing mattered I would be spinning really great fiction just to worry someone out there, but with their typical lack of imagination I suspect THAT wouldn't work.

I just cleaned out an OLD petition by True Majority calling for verified voting reforms. Anything at this point would have to do more than reverse the election, it would have to spin around at least four years of utter impotence or collaboration that have utterly ruined the election system way beyond the belief of the stridently uninformed.

Yet behind the attacks on the messengers- everyone DOES know, don't they?
You'd see that if ever the Dems won against an e-voting machine in some mysterious way.

Nutty. Nuttiest time I've ever lived in. Sometimes bloody mayhem, war crimes, savage ignorance and fanaticism are just too much to take seriously. Someone out there in moral land is on something way too much. Do real Christians chug Viagra? Should have put that on the exit polls.

I haven't really heard anyone say there's a chance of that happening. Well, maybe in passing, but from what I gather, it would be extremely difficult to overturn an election, even with evidence of tampering. The Repugs are in control of everything and you can be sure they'd find a loophole, slime that they are.

If they hadn't shown themselves to be so vicious, dishonorable, and truly reprehensible in the 2000 election-- not to mention in the last four years!!!!!-- it wouldn't even occur to me that the vote might be questionable. But these guys have pulled every dirty trick in the book-- lying, cheating, stealing... is it any wonder some of us are seriously questioning the integrity of the election??

One comforting thought: karma.

Since I discovered this forum, I feel renewal of hope - that anything is possible... I think that it very well could happen that the recounts show Kerry won Florida/Ohio -but if Bush resists the law - as war-mongering tyrants tend to do - we take to the streets.

I want things to move quicker! And I want a recall in FL, maybe NM or PA. Because it needs to be shown as wide spread. And hopefully if nothing else, the problem states won't send their electors if they can't decide. Or Ohio simply gets overturned — then maybe others will fall.

Democracy is the first goal of doing this. But I can't see it mattering if we don't get him out of office, and they end up doing things smarter in 2008 so that even the exit polls agree with them.