A reminder. And lest we forget, while Andy was dying, Bev Harris sat at FR

and called him a drama queen. A real team player, our Bev.


* * *

I have lived for the last ten weeks with Andy Stephenson’s cancer. And in the most useless way. I couldn’t take it away, couldn’t relieve him of it, couldn’t mind it for a few hours so he could be freed to do the work he so loved.

Andy was one of the most luminous people I have never met, because we never shared room temperature. I read his posts to a discussion board, then exchanged email with him. Later, when he was casting around for medical care, we had phone contact, increasingly as his situation became more obviously urgent.

And through the unfolding of our friendship, I understood that the being on the other side of the keyboard or the phone line was remarkable, was a gift walking among us. Sometimes a prickly gift or a demanding one but, all gifts have their particular qualities, if only to soften brilliance that laid bare would be blinding for most eyes.

I have heard Andy jubilant and terrified, laughing and sobbing. Playful and petulant. My deepest regret is that I won’t hear him again.

When Andy suspected his ill health was serious, I offered to make calls for him. I have made calls for families unable to find resources for over a decade. The public health care system nearly killed my husband, and when we were given a reprieve, I swore I would work to help anyone to find the care they needed.

I had little real success in finding resources for Andy, except in the sense that we widened the circle of friends who helped us look. One of them struck gold, and was able to get Andy taken on as a patient by a respected doctor at Johns Hopkins. This seems no less than a miracle to us. There are many cancer patients in the world and no matter their net worth, they are not taken on easily by doctors at Johns Hopkins.

That left only the money. Out of state patients must be prepared to pay the full costs of their surgeries in advance. So, a group of Andy’s friends set out to try to raise the funds needed, armed with only love and hope and a very short window to come up with the cash before we were all turned away.

That we did indeed raise $50, 000 in 11 days, in small donations and in many currencies is a measure of how beloved Andy was. None of us had the skill to open wallets, per se. This was for Andy.

And at this point, the story becomes bifurcated. One fork is the progress of love and hope and generosity that he elicited among the progressive community who shook junk drawers and upended sofa cushions and did without one trip to the mall to send in a donation. They made Andy’s surgery possible. And it is true that when I announced to an incredulous employee at Johns Hopkins that we had raised the money, I’m sure she heard me say, we found Monopoly Money and would she accept that? Paypal and Amazon accounts seem not to be used very often by Johns Hopkins clientele.

But the other fork of this story is the profound disturbance it created in the Bush right wing. I didn’t understand this until much later. But, the watchers saw our effort, watched the community response and were inspired with what can only be called hatred. Because only such a reaction could account for the vicious attack that was set into motion.

The first weekend of my fundraiser was without incident, but our jubilation of raising $25K in only one hundred hours must have goaded the Bush right. Before the week was out, the rumors of fraud and malfeasance began. I began to get anonymous email demanding to know Andy’s most personal information. During the second and last weekend of our effort, the contact information I had made available to donors resulted in my email box being spammed with hate mail. I at that point ignored it. It simply never occurred to my that our effort for our friend would become a political death match.

I was in no way prepared for what followed. And, although I have no proof, what followed was a concerted political attack on Andy, on our progressive community, and in specific on our ability to raise funds for our projects as well as, an attack on Andy’s productive work as an elections reform activist and watchdog.

What followed was a coordinated effort to block Andy’s medical care or his benefit from the medical care we could secure for him. In specific, the Bush right had its agents make small donations so they could then call Paypal with allegations of fraud that froze Andy’s account. They also called Paypal, misrepresenting themselves as the hospital to “verify” that this effort was a scam.

And it got more vicious from there. Due to the frozen funds and the confusion it caused us all, Andy’s surgery date was cancelled by Johns Hopkins. It was with great difficulty that we were able to persuade the doctor to be put Andy back into the surgical rotation. That cost him two weeks while he suffered from the most aggressive, invasive form of cancer.

The smears and the rumors were seeded all over the internet, to many sites. Ill, on hold waiting for his surgery, Andy and the rest of us cast about trying to answer questions that were more often simply calculated accusations meant to discredit us all, meant to make Andy’s health care as difficult as possible.

Andy called me one day, happy because he’d been given a new date. Then again, because they’d moved the date up. He was terrified, sobbing and I was caught flatfooted. Torn between trying to mind Andy’s care and trying to stop or answer the horrible accusations being sown all over our community, I had very little to offer his terror, dealing with my own.

After Andy was admitted to the hospital, the rumors turned into threats. A bounty was offered by the Bush right for anyone who could sneak into his hospital room. It was said he was getting a face lift. A telegram was sent just to see if it could be successfully delivered. The harassment was nonstop. And we tried to shield Andy from it, with less success than we would have liked.

A day or so after his surgery, Andy called me from his bed in ICU. I picked up the phone and he began to sing to me, “Come out, come out, wherever you are.” I started crying. And when we hung up, I offered that bit of good news to our on line progressive community at the Democratic Underground. Immediately, the opposition took that as evidence that Andy was not in fact recovering from a surgical marathon. And this was their pattern. Every specific I offered to comfort the community was taken up by Andy’s stalkers and used as evident that we were frauds.

Andy left the hospital and spent two weeks recovering at a friend’s house, learning how to eat again, learning how to move, weaning himself from the morphine that he’d needed post surgery. During this time, one of his supporters in Baltimore had her car vandalized – a message was sent. Shortly after he left to return to Seattle, his second East Coast hostess was stalked to her home and watched as someone tried to open her front door. His supporters everywhere were systematically intimidated and all the while, they tried to keep it from Andy.

Andy then went back home to Seattle, looking forward to a medical course of chemotherapy and radiation. Once he arrived, he found that an anonymous tipster had managed to get his Medicaid shut down. It took us two weeks to get him back in the system. Andy had anaplastic pancreatic cancer and was again forced to wait weeks for follow up care.

By this time, Andy’s stalkers had set up a website. It purported to be concerned that the funds for his surgery were raised fraudulently. Thankfully by this time, Andy spent very time on line. But it wore on his core advocates who were repeatedly attacked, defamed and baited.

We were threatened with everything from the FBI to the Washington State Attorney General. And of course, because our first concern was Andy, his attitude and his care, our response had to be measured or none. On a good day, we didn’t want Andy logging in and reading that he would soon be visited by federal agents to answer for the mythical hundreds of thousands of dollars we’d supposedly raised.

As late as week before Andy died, we couldn’t keep the poisonous campaign from him. He felt well enough to log into to his email and found a multipage denunciation, supposedly being filed with his state’s attorney general. He called me, not so much in a panic. Panic was no longer a speed Andy had. He called me in despair, because he could no longer fight the barrage of hatred being leveled at him. I don’t remember what I said to him but I hope it helped for a moment.

The attack from the Bush right never paused, not even through the agony of Andy’s last days. Not at all. Even the fact of his death is being disputed. Two days after his passing, his advocates are still being harassed, still receiving anonymous hate calls, “It was a scam.” The friend planning his service was visited by two men impersonating sheriffs on the morning after Andy passed. They were there to ask about fraud, they said.

Andy’s physical death has not stopped the attack, has not slowed the hatred, has not stemmed the steady stream of intimidation.

But, we’re not afraid. And we take up Andy’s work to secure our elections in his honor and in your face.

Elizabeth Ferrari
San Francisco
July 12, 2005

You mean "Our lady of PERPETUAL CHAOS"? :grr:

I wish I'd ever had the kind of life that could surrender to "personalities".

:cry:

out to publicize how the right acts towards a dying man simply because of his political views. How the right is a mass of heartless creatons who take joy in giving pain and suffering

Visit yourself on those who require a healthy dose of your vicissitudes and make it snappy. Something virulent, pestulent and smelly perhaps. Heavy on the incontenance. I beseech you.

Amen. So mote it be. Nobody rocks like (insert city name)! Thank you! Goodnight! (insert other favorite ending here).

they, the so-called "pro-life" party, the "values" voters, let the mask slip, and showed the hatred and ugliness that lies within. God may forgive them, because I can't.

It saddens me to think that there are people so full of hatred and vitriol in my own country.

who facilitated this.

Bev Harris.

I am not sure how one deals with this sickness. But I'd love to hear any ideas anyone has.

Remember or, forget at your peril.



This vulture is not welcomed in my city. I will not use my press contacts to promote this event of Paul's. I will not recruit the folks in my local government that I have worked so hard to educate over these last years to attend this event.

THIS is not how we build this movement.

it's not a local SF event, it's just a chance for activists of whatever stripe to talk. No one has been asked to promote the meeting in any way. See, for more correct info: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=466423&mesg_id=466722

On edit: I don't know why you are doing this. It's objectively a bad move. Subjectively, a worse move. And I hate to be saying this in public but transparency is messy.

I wish you would rethink this because you don't need her. You don't. And why you would want to continue to fund that corrupted pot is beyond me.

You and Brad don't need her. You don't need to be saddled with her record or her behavior or the worry of who she will alienate next. You two have done amazing work in this movement. Respect your work enough to rethink this.

Why are you placing your work in jeopardy? Why are you putting yourself in this position? Why would you want to close doors?

I might be an idiot but I don't get it. In your case or in Brad's. I really don't.

Harris is not this movement. We are. You want full attendance, you want access? Guess what, you can get it without compromising your ethics.

brad's most welcome to attend but I don't know that he is. Nobody's being paid anything to show up, hopefully there will be not much in the way of speeches. It really is more like the United Nations (except that I can't claim to be hitting every nation/group all at once)

more detail here on the principles involved, here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=466423&mesg_id=466722

You mention ethics. There are political principles and ethical principles that suggest inclusion as the best democratic policy, please state the ethical exceptions to that general rule. It seems to me that even if bev's a felon, if she's outta jail in MOST states even the republicans in the state legislature will allow her to vote, i.e. the laws in those states do not disqualify her from political participation. To be denied the vote is to be rendered a slave... as all the Founders said.

I tend to think I do not sully myself by following democratic inclusive principles. But Bev's a player and a force in this movement, I don't think I "flow power" to her by talking to her in a mostly nonpublic non-media event. as such she is fully qualified to have a view/vote. It's not just a matter of respecting Bev's individual rights, or even the place of BBV within the movement, also at stake is whether the movement can EVER have ANY bridge figures who might be able to broker a deal whereby the movement could be UNIFIED on SOMETHING. I guess/assume you are telling me this movement is permanently divided, and irretrievably so, even when it comes to nearly backchannel communications, == so long as Bev is in it. That IS divisive and damaging (qualities attributed to Bev) but qualities that are getting multiplied here.

A wise politician said: Keep your friends close. Keep your enemies closer. It's been attributed to SunTzu, Ben Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, and others. Thus, I can provisionally state that I believe every single thing you write and more as true for the sake of argument, and my principles STILL say the communication should NOT be shot down.

And so no one is confused, it is not a lack of sympathy for Andy (I was as far as I know his last employer and I created a job on purpose to help him) nor a lack of sensitivity to the attacks on Andy (I wrote against it on DU and washblog under the title Andy Stephenson, Paul Wellstone Rightwing hypocrisy though the link seems broke now at washblog.typepad.com/main/2005/07/rip_andy_stephe.html ) I'm mindful of freerepublic quotes by freepers like "We need to start pushing a story about how Andy Stephenson faked his own death for insurance reasons." See http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1439010/posts Also, those who have followed my writing know that I do not admit of "trust" as being an operative principle in elections so, if I may stretch that a tad to activists, I feel that democracy is a sufficiently safe subject with sufficiently clear principles that I can speak with the devil himself about it. So, were I to wholly endorse the conclusion "you can't trust Bev" I'd have to add that we rarely if ever need to trust ANYONE to do the work of democracy.

I respect your work sfexpat and we've made many a point of agreement before on a host of issues. I think there are almost no (I can think of none right now but am open to correction) principles or "ethics" that would operate to override the democratic principles of inclusion. I am fighting even for George F'ing Bush's right to vote, (ideally from jail). I'd not, as the * admin has, enforce orders of "no communication" preventing * from speaking from jail or organizing for his political points of view. Thus, I am at a loss as to how I can justify now shunning Bev, having erred on the side of inclusiveness in the first place.

In other words, I can grant ALL of your points, and I still say that there's at least an occasional need to talk. That's my position, it's a democratic position, there may be other positions that can still be called democratic, but i'm "a-stickin' to it." For now. Let all problems be heard, as Jefferson said, at the bar of public *REASON*" We're all good reasoners, when we want to be.

You're point is for all to know and beware, and you've made that point. Presuming it's not defamatory or false you're within your rights to do so. But I do not see where your rights extend to enforcing a principle of forced disassociation whereby, if someone at least trying to be neutral in this whole sordid affair tries to have a joint meeting of some sort, that is time to launch public "critiques" of that person, and critiques is putting it mildly (even as you also state your respect for my work and that I shouldn't "compromise" it). Here again, I believe people should be able to vote, as Thomas Paine did, from prison, or even death row. I am not going to publicize Bev in this particular context but that's beside the point.

Confession: I (Paul Lehto) did appear (through NO organizing of my own) on 10/25 along with Lowell Finley, Utah's famous govt whistleblower Bruce Funk, Ed Asner, Jim Lampley, and others in a San Diego Town Hall forum. BEV was on the panel too. The video highlights put me in time next to bev in the intro. Are we going to disassociate ourselves from the organizers of this event, from Ed Asnwer, Jim Lampley, Paul Lehto, Lowell Finley and Bruce Funk? See www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fZ9Ll__7bo The principles being used to blast me here, will truly wreak destruction of the sort of which Bev is accused, TIMES TEN, for it would require all of us who appeared on 10/25, who "knowingly added our stature to Bev" so to speak, to be publicly corrected, humiliated and distanced.

Shoudl we set up: (1) committee to politically humiliate and correct Ed Asner (2) committee to politically humiliate and correct Jim Lampley, etc...??

I tend to think I do not sully myself by practicing principles of democratic inclusion. After all, someday if I'm am really lucky I will have to meet with a president or congressperson I dislike or distrust or worse and convince them to do the right thing, though they've done the wrong (in my book) so many many times before.

Again, I tend to think I do not sully myself by so meeting and so talking in the spirit of democratic inclusion. But if I do, then democracy is impossible, our battle is lost, and the ultimate message of our movement would be, ultimately, hopelessness. Instead, it's almost as if, in democratic practice, I end up meeting MORE with those I dislike and distrust than I would otherwise. Certainly, in an imperial state I would have nothing to do with them, I would only demonize and bomb them, with words and worse. I'm working against that "perspective" of the world and of human relations, as I believe WE ALL ARE, but sometimes emotions override us, even understandably so. Though I disagree that I should not meet or speak to bev in this kind of "summit" situation, I hope that I have, while debating vigorously, nevertheless treated you with the respect that you have, and that you deserve.

on edit: added last 3 paras or so...change typos, and this quote:

"Peace and friendship with all mankind is our wisest policy, and I wish we may be permitted to pursue it." Thomas Jefferson

what is best for you.

But I will tell you, you don't need to do this and it will come back and bite you in the ass. Summit? That's a very interesting term.

I wouldn't wish you or any of your projects ill. And I will never shut up about the toxicity of this grifter. I can't.

fwiw.

Be well and do well, my friend.

I'm taking your point to apply to the larger dimensions of this and that you are not disputing my corrections on "little" facts like the fact that there's no funding involved, no publicity sought or to be made, brad's not involved (at this point anyway), local SF govt officials are not a focus for attendance.

I need to focus what time I have now on the new Holt bill language, which takes Andy's "paper ballot, not paper trail" mantra and totally corrupts it so that paper "ballots" under the new Holt bill are NOT counted on the first count if there's an electronic count that can be used.

Because of the corruption of Andy's mantra, my belief is that the truest defense of Andy's contribution is to rage against the machine (i.e. the Holt bill) that wants to take Andy's language and corrupt it in a totally Orwellian manner, IMHO. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x466821

other items, points taken.

I understand what your focus is and I'm glad you have chosen to work on this. As you may remember, in general I've agreed with you on problems with Holt.

and she'll never get a pass from me. Every time I think of Andy and what they put him through, makes me realize the evil pervading our lives, our country. Lately I run into it everywhere, and it is truly frightening.

Thanks for posting this, because it needs to be said many times over. And you said it so eloquently. Those not here just can't imagine!

Bless you sfexpat2000. You are my hero!

:loveya: :hug:


edited to add a "recommend"

Recommended.

Are you saying she callously tried to kill Andy Stephenson?

Or are you smearing her by the tried and true methods of association. Like 9/11 in the same sentence as Saddam and Iraq?

I would really like to know how you connect Bev Harris to the harrassment of Andy during his final illness.

Do you have evidence that Bev Harris was the tipster? Or do you only want us to think it?

where Bev Harris was trying to raise money at Free Republic and she was asked about Andy.

She said he was exaggerating his illness. She was flippant. And that was after I tried to call her and let her know, this would not end well. If only to appeal to her self interest and to get her to just stop, because I knew Andy was dying and she was feeding them.

Is that clear enough for ya?

Oh, and when he died, Bev owed him money and was withholding his personal property.

Is that even more clear?

Were you here and just not paying attention?

We took the discussion off of DU to stop upsetting the whole board. And then, there were things we tried not to bring up to avoid upsetting Andy and to avoid feeding the trolls, too.

But, yeah. I tend to think of that one moment when we were waiting to hear how the surgery went because it was so horrible that that predator was holding court at FR at the same time.

But her prints are all over what happened to Andy, from beginning to end.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0701/S00368.htm :hi:

She wouldn't even show up in Ohio when Conyers was holding hearings.

to hell with her. :grr:

and do whatever little bit I can.

But I will not sit here and watch this. Ever. I will not sit here and see this person promoted.

You help kill my friends, don't expect me to be your welcome wagon. :nuke:

She egged on the freepers who were harrassing him. Worse, she didn't pay taxes on his paychecks, so he couldn't get medicaid and disability when he needed it. She refused to return his laptop. She fired him over the internet. Then she went over to FR and trashed him.

But I'd still like to know the results of her IRS filings. Did she really raise $1M to investigate FL 2004 and then stash the money instead of doing the investigation? I remember Randi Rhodes reaming her over it on air.

but I expect her to check in tomorrow or, soon.

Bev had not filed her IRS form 990 for several years...

That was some time ago.

I just looked at Guidestar.org and found her IRS FORM 990 for 2004-07-01 Thru 2005-06-30.

Gross Revenues were $972,304.
Total Expenses $384,094

Cash in the Bank at year end was $613,309.

Total "program" expenses were $280,675.

She paid her self a salary of $60,000 per year.

She is late with her 2005-2006 filing (due Nov. 15th unless she filed an extension).

that "Bev had not filed her 990 for several years." She evidently filed BBV's first 990 six months (she had filed for extensions) after the original due date, but just barely at the final due date.

Now the second year 990 is posted on her site. The new filing shows that her salary increased by 50% to $90,000 per year. Then there is the $6,500 fee per speaking engagement that it appears goes into Bev's pocket, not BBV.

In this second year filing, we see that salaries exceed donations (what a way to run a non-profit!?). $175,578 in donations, $178,840 compensation and salaries. At least Bev and Jim are getting their gravy.

Jim March is now paid a salary as a member of the Board of Directors, despite a post by Linda Franz, President of the Board of Directors, BBV, stating "Please explain to me how someone on the BOD can get any kind of compensation, especially when it's written into the organization bylaws that we get none?" http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=340188&mesg_id=341047
Gee, I dunno, Linda, can YOU explain it?

There is, of course, the issue of Bev's claims that she would donate the Qui Tam money to BBV. She did not donate it in the first year, but it was claimed it would be donated this past second year. GUESS WHAT.... according to the new 990 she has posted, the Qui Tam money was not donated in the second year, either. What is one to make of that?

I have a stomach ache. You know, it just breaks my heart that we keep doing the same damn thing and keep expecting a different result. I should probably go do something useful and stop upsetting this forum with naked truthiness.

($250 later!#%$**!)

It's just fucking revolting and infuriating to have to even think about Bev yet again.

Who knows, maybe it's useful to go over this same old crap once again, if it serves to enlighten even one DUer who will send a donation, give energy, support and work with other legitimate election integrity organizations.

And how you were willing to go on record as being so much trouble.

:)

Coffee

I was shocked to hear you type "I should probably go do something useful and stop upsetting this forum with nakedness"

So, Girlfriend, let us know where we send the money for

A) the photos
B) the wherewithal for you to get yourself some clothes

:hi:

Does BBV pay for Bev's travel on speaking engagements???

By the time she finishes there will not be anything left, and, nothing acomplished...

This POS needs to be audited by the IRS....
a $90K salary is very close to what some of the directors of the King County United Way make AND THAT IS A $107m/year Agency..

Fax a letter to Deborah Chrisman at the local IRS office in Seattle She is working on a couple of other issues for me.... She is the IRS Taxpayer Education & communication manager. Ask her to forward it to the criminal Investigation division. they will be interested. the only way the IRS finds out about this is when someone blows the whistle...

Can you forward me a copy of the latest 990??? or post pics of it here...

in the year BBV's income dropped by 90%. It seems people are wising up and Bev is milking the cow for every last drop she kills it.

If she took deductions from his paycheck but didn't pay them to the IRS, you could get her into one big hell of trouble. This is a jailable, finable offense.

They were supposedly eventually paid (apparently after Andy was dead, too late for him to file for a refund of his own money).

I wonder if the trusting donors would have sent in their money with the idea that their dollars would go to pay IRS penalties and interest (rather than to advance the cause).

Why, after taking in a million bucks, would she neglect to deposit an employee's own paycheck withholding money for the entirety of his employment? Negligence? Cruelty? Incompetence? Malfeasance? Irrationality? I don't find any excuse that would cause me to entrust her with donated funds or any other matters of importance.

Why does she claim "specialized" "expert" CPAs, but no CPA has ever signed a tax filing, let alone the numbers do not add up? It is obvious that a million dollars in publicly donated money should have a CPA report.

How does an organization not spend a single cent on fund-raising... not one stamp, not one sheet of paper or phone call, not one minute of staff time?

Where IS the transparency? We call for honesty and transparency in elections. We demand scrupulous, honest reporting of numbers. Should we expect truth and transparency from the organizations that solicit our donation dollars, or should we turn a blind eye?

Where is the Qui Tam money? She repeatedly said that she would post the cancled check. It does not show on the 990s. She pretends that 990 Schedule A (which would show any such donation) is not required. Lemme see, how do I spell L I E.

You really should read the 990 forms from both years. They are fascinating...there is much there (and some that should be there, isn't).

a District Attorney might be coerced into investigating her for a bunco type of scheme. Her time to be accountable has come.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x466553

in the first place. And then when we tried to make up the deficit, she tried to sabotage us. What a gal.

But then, Bev is about Bev. Ask her children and her first husband who she abandoned with all that debt.

And this is the person you want to stand with? Are you sure?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=466044&mesg_id=466044 OHIO 2004: 6.15%

What you can't do is blot out the record. I'm so sorry.

where the hell is Kingdom come? :)

:)

cause I hate anything that is SECRET, Don't you? :)

We vote in secret in this country. Why do you hate America?

There are no secrets in my life that won't stand the light of day.

And you have to wonder at how special someone thinks s/he is, so special that they will be treated better by that grifter than she treated Andy or Kelvin Mace or Skinner or Ida Briggs or me or troubleinwinter or Keith Olbermann or Randi Rhodes or, all of DU.

I don't know anyone who is that special. :)

Don't you?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6533008 /

<snip>

One final note here. I should clarify what I wrote in this space last night about Countdown’s interaction with Bev Harris of Black Box Voting. My staff is not certain that any of our messages to Ms. Harris inviting her on the show since the week of November 15 have specifically asked her for permission to play the videotapes of her work trying to audit the Florida vote. We think so, but I’ve got only three people booking all the guests on this program, and they each probably make about 100 calls a day.

Complicating our effort is the fact that even as we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts, Ms. Harris had returned none of the messages left on her own voicemail by Countdown staffers since she spoke to our staffers briefly, twice, during the week of November 8. Only today did she even get back in touch with us, and was so belligerent, threatening, and demanding, that we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear, or to have videotape of her efforts played, on Countdown.

Threats against myself or my staff will not be tolerated. We are not only busting our humps on the voting irregularities beat, but we remain the only mainstream news organization to continue to cover this vital story. These are my people — they are running professional risks I can’t begin to describe — and I will stand up for them, first, last, and always.

<snip>

Feel free to read it in its entirety. Another "injustice"? I think not. I'll take KO at his word. He has EARNED our trust.

As tough as this may be for some to believe...there are many QUALIFIED people involved with election reform. Insinuating that the movement NEEDS Bev Harris in order to survive is ludicrous.

It's all about credibility. My father once told me that a person's reputation was like virginity. Once it is lost you can never get it back.

Too much has happened. All of the name-calling and "projecting" doesn't change Bev's history. Her behavior and actions are not ours to own. She OWNS them.

Perpetual drama. Perpetual victim. Our lady of PERPETUAL CHAOS. Take your pick.

How many bridges has she burned? How many opportunities missed?

Yes. Everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. I don't expect perfection...just truth, honor and integrity. Our democracy deserves no less and will cease to exist without it.

"we have chosen to withdraw our invitation to her to appear"

Good Choice, If you want the secret vote counting machines to REMAIN SECRET.

YOUR KIDS, SOME DAY, WILL THANK YOU,


NOT!!!

















/

Why are you so protective of Bev?

What's your dog in the fight?

That's why KO withdrew the invitation. Translation: Doesn't play well with others.

we hoped to provide a platform to publicize and illuminate her efforts

Whewww...I'm so dizzy my head is spinning. You're working overtime tonight. You must be exhausted.

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To me a lying weasel is a lying weasel, and it doesn't matter which side of the political fence they live on. Some people just can't be trusted. We have the king of lying weasels squatting in our White House. We certainly wouldn't trust him or any of his band of malicious varmints, so....
In Bev's case it's unfortunate, because she could be a useful and positive force in the area of election reform, but IMO her bridges have been burned. She is not a person I could trust, nor respect. I just have no use for her. There are too many other capable and trustworthy people that are working on the issues. We don't need her.

I didn't know Andy, but I remember his posts, his struggle to survive, and all the wonderful people who tried to help. I remember the ugliness, too, and there was no excuse for it.

If George Bush came out for paper ballots, that would invalidate EVERY crime he ever committed and anyone who refused to go along with that view point hates America.

How do I get out of this hall of mirrors?

"But, we’re not afraid. And we take up Andy’s work to secure our elections in his honor and in your face"

Death comes to all, but great achievements build a monument which shall endure until the sun grows cold.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

To Andy

but hanging around DU a person WILL learn about him.

he must have been really wonderful. bless his soul forever.

the people who tormented you and others, and andy as well, and whose actions probably hastened his death, man, i'd consider consulting an attorney, or taking my documented complaints to the nearest police agency.

their actions were criminal - literally, i believe.

it dismays me to have to acknowledge that many right wingers even those who will be just as disenfranchised as the rest of us when the corporate fascists have appropriated all the resources and power for themselves and their cronies, are every bit as heartless as gw and cheney and wolfowitz and rumsfeld etc.

i wanted to think they were good albeit misguided and intellectually lazy (or in other words willfully ignorant); that they were just the latecomers to the realization of what the neocons real agenda is and has been all along. but this chilling account tells me that i was wrong.

they are fucked up people. how do they sleep at night.

This story needs to be told, the hate towards him was most frightening.
Kudos to this community and the members who donated - it was the most fun period I've had here at the DU :-)

Thanks again, my friend :hug:

lol

That was fun. That monster thread took so long to load. :hi:

I do hope my 'thank you' thread didn't spark this - ala spark your pain. I certainly didn't mean to praise bev in that - as she isn't a ER er - or if she is (ala sockpuppet) she shouldn't be. She isn't included in my thanks. Nor are any attckers of Andy.

featuring Bev Harris. I wanted to post a reminder that Bev Harris is no friend of DU or of election reform activists.

Some people never learn.

I am honestly shocked by this, and I thought that nothing that Freeper's could do would shock me. I guess they're not above hounding a sick man into his grave then dancing on it like a bunch of twisted freaks.
That's beyond low. That's beyond scum. Their behavior embarasses lowlifes.

Andy and you.

All I did was give money, and it wasn't enough. :(

Bev will never get a dime of mine or any respect after her callous attitude towards a man in her employ who was her responsibility, let alone her total disrespect of federal tax law. She's set back the movement by years, I'd bet.

for Bev Harris that mentions Andy Stephenson, but no link for him. Maybe someone who knows his work/life well could create an entry for him? It's a little thing, I know, but even a few more people learning about his life and work could change minds.

...but it was deleted in October of 2006. There's an archive of the discussion about deleting the article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andy_Stephenson

If we want an article about Andy Stephenson on Wikipedia, apparently we need to have his name written in the sky by God or Andy isn't notable enough for inclusion.

Jesus, that is ugly...can't his family sue, or something?

I have read bits and pieces over the years about what went on, but was unaware of the full hate campaign leveled against the man.

Truly hideous!

was hustling Free Republic and putting him down and dismissing his cancer.

Nice going, Bev. If you weren't a cheat, Andy would have had care months sooner. And you egged on his stalkers to the end.

What a disgusting waste of skin she is.

Outside of the Countdown account that I recount from Countdown.

Yes, it sounds ugly. Fortunately, this is not a pressing matter, so its impact is slight. Unfortunately, the first hint I got of this was from a poster who made an ass of herself as she tore up the Ohio forum, engendering hatred. Hence, the skepticism.

I don't know if I'd believe it either.

There's something in our brains that just needs to believe that people are better than that.

On edit: You know something, I don't have a good enough imagination to make this shit up. If I did, I'd be Barbara Cartland.

There is no smiley for what we all went through with Andy. A whole, great group of DUers put their arms around him and dealt with this for weeks, some weeks, I don't know how many any more. Skinner did the best thing for DU and was kind and fair at the same time when there was no map for what we were trying to do.

And of course those @ssholes had to try to stop that effort. It must have made them wet their pants to see us come together that way. I know that the wave of community collaboration and support helped Andy immensely. And for that, so much gratitude.

if you were one of the election integrity activists or organizations that Bev had attacked, smeared and lied about.

It would be a "pressing matter" if you care that Bev burns down media people who had wanted to get the issue out to the public.

It would be a "pressing matter" to you if you had been a donor and found out that donated money was being spent on IRS penalty fees, rather than the work your donation was intended to further.

It would be a "pressing matter" if you had been falsely promised medical coverage, and learned you had life-threatening cancer and had no coverage.

It would have been a "pressing matter" if you had been publicly fired and smeared and were unable to file for a tax refund because the money withheld from your paychecks had not been deposited.

It would be a "pressing matter" if you were being smeared and tormented while fighting for your life.

It might be a "pressing matter" if you care about being duped and lied to regarding Qui Tam donations to an organization.

Just what things in life are "pressing matters" to you? If you think Bev is saving democracy, by all means send her a check. Just take awhile before you do that, to consider what sort of damage she has done to the movement by trashing and smearing so very many legitimate, hard working activists, who don't ask for a dime.

Yeah, send her a check so that she can get yet another 50% raise. That Qui Tam money just isn't gonna supplement the $90k quite enough.

And the list of activists she's burned is much too long.

And the list of media outlets that she's alienated is much too long.

And I can't believe this. I just cannot believe that anyone who knows what she is is willing to give her a seat at any table.

Okay. I'm outta here for now. Posters to DU are adults. They have choices to make.

...after I'd heard how Harris had screwed him over.

What a cold, vindictive person she turned out to be. I can't believe I ever admired her. I have nothing but contempt for her now. As for the FR crowd, there isn't much they could do to shock me any more. Though not all of them are ogres, there are some truly foul and evil people in that place.

I was proud to help Andy get his surgery. It was the least any of us could do for all the energy he expended on our behalf. And I thank you for giving us the opportunity to share in his struggle.

:yourock:

I've never seen anything like it in my life.

:yourock:

Sadly, it did with Andy's passing. I hope he learned just how beloved he was before he went on his journey.

Those people kept at him until the day he died. And he drew a lot of comfort, in those last ghastly days, from what DU had done.

Thank you so much.

smear critics today.

optical scan stole my vote in wake county.

I say hand count.

holt bill keeps dre machines.

You engage in a beautiful, courageous and necessary act--when you speak out about the evil that
these thugs perpetrated.

Keeping quiet--or allowing their crimes to go unnoticed--only helps the thugs. They rely on silence, on
intimidation and on people not telling the truth.

I read your post---every word. I am in awe of you right now, because you are all about moving forward and
doing what is right.

You are an exceptional person. You are just, brave, honest and decent. And those qualities--always trump evil,
selfishness, destruction and third-rate thuggery.

You are an inspiration to anyone who is afraid to speak out, and to those who feel that telling the truth
will stir up trouble. How many times has evil or a smear campaign triumphed--because someone felt more
comfortable being quiet?

Thank you for being an inspiration on so many levels. Thank you for speaking the truth.

You are truly one of DU's most sparkling gems.

that has cost us so much already, over and over.

Let's make different mistakes. :hug:

>You are truly one of DU's most sparkling gems.<

Yes.

And if it ever did, those freepers would probably re-inflict it on you.

We must celebrate knowing A.S., and also the Nov 7th victory.

If it is any consolation, my research has shown that the reason that the $ 50,000 payment from PayPal to Johns Hopkins was not turned over to Johns Hopkins quickly probably had little to do with right wing freepers (they don't have that much control - although they certainly pretend to.) Rather the fact that PayPal at that point in time was very much into holding back on releasing funds if whoever set up the account didn't explain to them to begin with that a huge amount was going to be paid into the account. (And of course, how could anyone setting up such a fund KNOW that Andy's name alone would raise him $ 50,000)

I believe it operates differently now - but during the summer of 2005 you could find a gazillion posts on the internet from people outraged because PayPal accounts were frozen just because whatever they were selling made more money than PayPal thought it should.

The activist community owes you a huge debt of gratitude for the work that you did for Andy. It gave all of us comfort that this was happening. (Not to mention the comfort and even delight Andy had in seeing the response to your asking people to help.) Also your work and the public's response helped convince Peter Angelos of the Baltimore Orioles that Andy was the star that he was - and Peter was willing to undertake any expense down the road, had Andy survived and needed more care.

You too are a star of the movement. I hope that you know that we are there for you.

And we could go a long way to healing up from this if we could stop serving up activists to known predators.

Re PayPal, I merely report what Andy told me when he called that morning, more or less in shock I guess, and what was told to me when I called PayPal. But, sure, their business "practices" leave a lot to be desired.

Next time anything like this happens, we set up a regular dedicated bank account, by the numbers with all available safeguards.

told me Thursday morning we needed the money by Monday -- and then, they turned around and did the same thing the very next weekend. Opening an account -- did we even have time to do that? Wouldn't they have put holds on checks because it was a new account? The whole time I was talking to the hospital it felt like Andy's care was hanging by a very thin thread and at the first sign of anything unusual, they'd turn him away. And they did, once. It cost him two weeks.

So, PayPal wasn't a good choice, either. You're right.

We need to remember (and the Democrats in Congress need to remember) that we can not trust the Republicans, especially Bush.

No where does it get much clearer or more personal than Andy.

I know that I shall never forget those days and nights when you and others at DU were all doing all you could to raise the money for Andy's care only to have these evil people blow everything up.

It was murder and it shows what lengths they will go to to reach their evil ends.

We must NEVER forget.

Sfexpat2000, why is your post dated July 12, 2005 at the bottom? It seems to me that Andy and his supporters must have been harassed more than all or almost all other activists? Why is that?

understanding your question. We tried to keep his focus positive best as we could.

I don't understand: July 2005 is one and a half years ago. Was your post written then, and posted now, one and a half year later? Why?

And: I'm Norwegian, and don't know much about activists in the US. But I've never heard about anyone being harassed as much as Andy and his supporters. Is this level of harassment unique? And, if so, why were Andy and his supporters harassed so much more than other activists?

to my city for an event. And I wanted to remind us all what we can expect from her. That is why I posted this thread yesterday.

Andy was harassed, imo, for various reasons. Mainly, because he was beloved and he was effective. That Bev Harris encouraged his stalkers and disparaged him in the last weeks of his life certainly didn't help matters.

/oops

Has the New York Times or any other newspaper written about this harassment? This kind of harassment should be a topic for the media (in Norway, it certainly would have been!). My advice is to write a report about it (and perhaps about similar harassment of other activists), and try to get the story out.

distributed. And although it must sometimes look like I enjoy rehashing this event, I don't and would gladly never revisit it again if this woman were ever held accountable for anything that she has done to us individually or collectively.

has been printed in The New York Times? Excellent. These people are worse than even I thought (and that says a lot!), and it's important that the truth about them is being told.

and I was happy about that so people could, if they chose, be forewarned.

Harassment of progressive activists should be documented in reports. Getting this into the main stream media is of course not easy. But the reports should at least be there, so that the main stream media cannot blame anyone but themselves, that this is not known among ordinary Americans.

That's just where we are. If you want news here, you go to the net.

Perhaps someone should try to do something about that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bev_Harris

is that those of us who recognize how much she has cost us are usually so nauseated by her that taking on something like a Wiki entry is a pretty hard chore.

Someone should, though, in the interest of accuracy.

screwing with it and posting ugly, despicable BS. There came a point when it seemed better not to continue a stage for their childish and hateful vandalism.

caved to them. Or, somewhat surprising.

It's all right. Truth sneaks out.

Saying that since it was one of the few Wiki things I ever worked on, it couldn't be valid

:crazy:

Maybe if Mike Moore uses the story in "Sicko", we can try it again.

I didn't know Andy or about the controversy caused by the freepers and it makes me ill. Since I knew nothing I googled and his name and unfortunately, clicked a link that took me to FR. These are human beings??? I am just shaking my head. To celebrate a death or to be so callous towards someone with a terminal illness is just morally wrong. I can't believe that Pay Pal froze the account. Time was precious and too much was lost. I use Pay Pal and I understand how it works. Funds can be frozen while they investigate possible fraud and for someone to make a claim knowing no fraud was being committed is criminal, in my opinion.

I hope you are able to keep Andy's story front and center. It will not help Andy now but maybe it can help someone in the future. I am a cancer survivor and I have my own bias. Politics should never have been an issue in Andy's treatment. Humanity should have been.

:)

the threads, so there is no record of the ugliness that Ms. Harris helped to inspire.

http://www.scamdy.com/

RIP Andy.

What the hell is wrong with these psychos...seriously :wtf:
Talk about kickig a sick man..

Poor Andy...:(

to unravel the threads that connected the well-orchestrated and detailed attacks on Andy from every possible angle.

It occurs to me while re-reading this OP that the swiftness and virulence of the war on a vulnerable election reform activist and those who supported him might have found its beginnings in the offices of the companies (and their overseers) that would stand to lose the most by having their methods revealed through activism.

It's one thing to send out troops to decry activists as "conspiracy theorists", but how much more affective is it to destroy a person's well-being, their very life, in a lengthy and public stoning that came in waves?

I often wonder if Bev herself--if not already fully conscious of her role--is not somehow a puppet in all this. She does much to discredit. Early on she cut off two huge avenues to getting public awareness out on the dangers of evoting. (Randi Rhodes and Keith Olbermann). It made no sense whatsoever.

In my wildest imagining, I see her as being held for a later date by the powers-that-be for some coup de gras in an attempt to discredit and upend the election reform movement nationally.

Fortunately the movement is so large, wide-ranging, and the awareness by the general public has grown enough that NOTHING will stop it at this point.

My perhaps overly paranoid, but not too presumptuous point here is that I do not trust Ms. Harris. Whether her malignant personality, or even possible personality disorders may or may not be actively utilized by sinister forces within the Government or private corporations, it still stands that she is not to be trusted, no turn of events surrounding her would surprise me in the least. As a human being, Harris has proved herself to be despicable by any mentally and emotionally healthy set of standards.

Any good that comes from BBV I will continue to assume comes from others who work within its ranks. There is evidence that in the past she has co-opted other's work. There is an organization in place that is beyond Ms. Harris.

sfexpat2000, thank you again for taking care of Andy, you are a mensch beyond measure. :loveya:

to Andy. Why can't we take that in? It may be just too hard.

And, you know, I miss him. He was funny and dear and too damn idealistic.

I'm logging off now.

:hug:

Was anyone ever arrested or charged with any crimes involving shutting down his medicaid account or anything like that?

What was it that Andy did that caused so much hate?
Wasn't he just looking into voter fraud in the last election?

Wasn't that an American thing to do?
Wasn't that what we all were interested in, back then?

We complained to the authorities but were told it was a "civil matter". Unless we had teh money for lawyers, we were SOL.

I met her at the Sacramento McPherson hearing, and had sent her money because Randi Said So -- but Randi's later reversal was telling. She's rough and tough on False Flags and Fakers. I trust her judgement.

I wish I has more time and money to push this cause. I consider it to be the single most important issue of our day, since every wicked thing that has come our way started with not counting the votes.

sfexpat2000, I love you. Rare person. I wish I was more like you.

I'll try harder.

All of this is a good lesson about what They're willing to do. I wish I could find them and bring them to justice. I think if I had the resources, it would be an important thing to do. It all smacks of Alabama in the 60's, that Mississippi Burning sort of evil. Goddamn it. They need to fade away into the Darkness from which they came.

:)

Bev is a bush league grifter. She has fully convinced me that she is a piece of crap and not to be trusted.

when there are so many people, degreed and/or experienced people, working this side of the street?

And we have to keep trotting out this grifter?

We are ALL one family. Do the math:

http://jqjacobs.net/anthro/ancestors.html

I donated to fund and it astounded me, the ugliness that surrounded such a noble cause

Missing Andy
Deep disturbance at the length the harassers would go
Profoundly sad tonight.

I am sad, too. And angry. So many of us miss Andy. Andy also wanted the TRUTH to be told.

and *democratic* (as in Democracy - rather than party) elections. His legacy to that cause - lives on in the many.

And it won't be the last.

Look at the Unions . . . how many died? The lives ruined by McCarthy. The civil rights activists gunned down on dirt roads. The Black Panthers shot in their beds by Chicago Police. The witch hunt of the Clintons and the accusations that Bill and Hillary personally had Vince Foster killed.

The Reich-wing is playing for keeps and they're playing to win.

The way to beat them is to organize for power, the same way the unions and the civil rights workers did.

Get some hard-as-nails attack lawyers and track these MF's down and sue their asses off. Bankrupt them for ever.

Tell me where to send the money.

This IS what democracy looks like.

to sweep the filth out of our own home. When we find a rat in the closet the likes of Bev Harris, it is up to us to face the truth and chuck that mess out the door.

If we find someone who purports to be a leader in the movement, but illegally solicits donations for two years in violation of law, fails to deposit tax moneys withheld from an employee, lies, smears fellow activists, alienates those who can help our cause.... WHEN do we admit we have vermin in our midst and clean our house? Should we clean our own house or wait for others to point out that we have a rat infestation?

i have not posted on any of these posts as those of us directly involved in Andy's care during and after his surgery made a pact to let him have the dignity in his passing that he didn't get in his dying ...

but I feel i must say something here...

4 of us were with Andy through his pre- surgery and during his surgery and post surgery..

I refuse to give out all the details..as i said the people who were there made a pact to give Andy the dignity in his death he had stolen in his last month of life.

And his family has asked us to not discuss what all went on..and i will not breach that confidence.

After all Andy had all of his privacy,in a very private time,exposed in the worst way..

His family ( his mother) and partner wanted this to all die down..and stop.

But here i feel i must jump in and confirm what Beth has posted about Bev Harris..

Bev Sicked her sick sob's on a dying man when there was no excuse for that kind of behaviour..none...

The doctor was harassed, the hospital was harassed, and those of us caring for Andy were harrassed..not just during Andy's surgery but for 2 of us,for almost 1 year after Andy's passing.

I was advised by police officials to stay away from all these posts for my and my family's safety..i can not speak for the other person, and will not..but it has been a living nightmare ..because of Bev Harris and the sick mother fuckers who thought they could diagnose another human beings illness from a computer!

But my nightmare can not compare to Andy's ..in his most vulnerable time..and his most frightening time ..and painful time .

I know..i wiped his tears...many, many times..and held him in my arms ..

not only was he dealing with realizing he was going to die..and nothing could be more painful to a human being, who so loved life and wanted to live,
trust me on this one!! ...but then he also had to deal with total harassment ..harassment that was unnessessary..and totally uncalled for.

While he was in the hospital ..having the most cruel surgery any human should have to go through..we had to have his room monitored to keep unwanted nut cases out..for his safety and his security.

Andy and his partner had to have someone removed from the hospital ..and i won't go into that..

Andy did not know for some time what kind of cancer he had..but his partner and another caretaker and i did ...


Andy's partner and i were doing every thing we could to keep this info from Andy as he was having to deal with recovery that was awful ...painful and just awful..

As his partner and i knew Andy had the worse diagnosis possible and we were doing everything in our power to get him strong enough to try to make it to Chemo..
But that meant getting him Physically, as well as Emotionally.. well enough to make it to Chemo. Andy's emotional well being was as important as his physical healing..and His partner and i knew time was of the essence..

Andy didn't know for at least 2 weeks after surgery ..how bad his cancer actually was..we were trying to protect him from it,as long as possible..to get him strong.And get his body's system ( Pancreas , bile duct..etc) working.

But people kept calling Andy telling him what Bev was saying ..at one point Andy's partner tried hiding Andy's phone from him..as he was in so much physical pain ..he didn't need all the other stuff..he had too big a fight to fight..and it was a fight.a fight to eat..a fight to walk..a fight to try to sleep..he had alot of physical pain.

Andy also had to learn a new way to eat..as with Pancreatic cancer and after the whipple the pancreas does not have the enzymes to digest food.

I had never dealt with Pancreatic cancer..so i had to learn how to cook for him..from the john's hopkins pancreatic cancer family's message board...of which i was depending on ..so i could feed Andy the right foods to get his system back to working,,..

Bev Harris's assholes even went to the family message board for pancreatic families and was asking these poor families questions to try to prove Andy didn't have pancreatic cancer..

I know i saw the person on there,asking about the money it costs for the surgery..and i turned the person in...these are families dealing with life and death daily..and Bev harris's pit bulls were even going and pulling their shit there!

I will not go into details about what Andy dealt with emotionally ..when he found out the kind of cancer he had and what the prognosis was...

but i will tell you this..several people told Andy what Bev Harris was saying online,..and what the other people were saying..and he cried..he cried hard..he could not understand that kind of cruelity...but i hate..yes hate ..what these people did to this man..the kindest young man i have ever met and called friend...the anguish they caused him ..was heartbreaking ..

and he was so hurt ..at what bev harris was doing to him...a hurt that i will never forget...and even then ..he was forgiving..That was Andy...that was this VERY "Special man"..ANDY...........

I can not forgive her..ever!..I guess i am not as good or kind as Andy was...

he even so much as pulled his shirt up one afternoon and said who can deny this ..his scar was huge..and he was cut awful...and he said.. how can anyone say HE DIDN'T HAVE THIS SURGERY... ..through his tears...

His guts were cut awful...I know,i changed and cleaned the dressing twice a day.

Andy went through hell..but the hell Bev Harris caused by her evil bullshit..i don't want to tell you what i wish her!!


I still can not even write this now without crying my eyes out..

No human being should be put through what Andy was..

Do You read this you Bev Harris supporters??

NO HUMAN BEING SHOULD EVER EVER BE PUT THROUGH ANYTHING LIKE WHAT BEV HARRIS AND THE SICK SON OF A BITCHES DID TO HIM..
IN HIS LAST DYING DAYS!

I thought the most painful time any human being could
have is the day they are told they are dying..

Andy was told that..but he was also told ..very few people have been diagnosed with the type of cancer he had..it was devastating to him..

it was devastating to his partner who loved Andy ..well all i can say ..is it is and was unconditional love..a very special love..

it was devastating to his mom ..who had just lost her daughter as well..


But then add to that,some mother fuckers who thought they could diagnose him from afar..on a fucking computer... with no idea what he was going through ...and what his partner was going through..and what Andy's mom and family were going through.........


.and to those
who took it upon themselves to attempt to smear a dying man..and that means you Bev fucking Harris...........
god help you and those assholes..they will need gods help,because when they meet their maker..i doubt it will be a kind meeting!

If i seem angry..you bet i am...it's the other reason i stay off these threads..because i have an anger so deep in me ..it may never go away!

I doubt it will..

and that fucking bitch better hope she never meets me...

I am a very non violent person..but just her name makes an anger come up in me i never knew was possible!

I am a mom and a wife ..and i was a friend..trying to help a friend who had immeasurable needs...who was fighting for his life...a life he loved,with every
inch of himself..Andy wanted to live so badly...but he was so hurt...
when he could least afford the emotional stress and bullshit he was put through......

again i will say this ..NO HUMAN BEING SHOULD EVER HAVE TO FACE THAT GOD AWFUL CANCER..IT IS A HELL ON EARTH.........

BUT equally..NO HUMAN BEING SHOULD HAVE TO BE PUT THROUGH THE GOD AWFUL ABUSE ANDY TOOK IN HIS FINAL DAYS ON THIS EARTH..by that mother fucking bev harris and her sick pathetic games..she is a sick sick ..well...I can't even call her a woman..as no woman i know would or could ever do what she did to Andy!
she is a monster!! and inhuman monster!
I hope she rots in a very hot hell!

I will not respond to this post..this is all i have to say on this..

sorry i just can't ..it is too painful..and just hurts too damn bad..still!

i Miss my friend..i miss him horribly...but i know he is in a kinder place now..and out of pain..

both from his cancer..and the cancer Bev Harris brought to his life
and the filthy pigs who tried to deliberately hurt a dying young man.

What a sad day ..that this is the cruelty that has become part of our society..and can define who some in this country have become, sad and a disgrace.

iF YOU DOUBT WHAT I AM SAYING ABOUT BEV HARRIS..WELL THATS YOUR PROBLEM..

ALL I CAN DO IS WARN YOU..

BUT SHE FUCKED ANDY IN EVERY WAY ANOTHER HUMAN BEING CAN FUCK ANOTHER..IN THE CRUELEST WAY..........

SHE OWED ANDY ALOT OF MONEY..SHE HAD HIS COMPUTERS...AND SHE NEVER PAID HIS MEDICAL ..SO HE COULD NOT EVEN GET COBRA..WHEN HE GOT ILL!..and i know this why?? i was helping him try to get cobra when he found out Bev never paid for his medical.. early when he first started getting sick and was turning orange.. before he knew what was wrong with him!

SO GO AHEAD AND GET YOURSELF FUCKED BY THAT BITCH...YOU ARE FOREWARNED!

fly

I know how hard this was for you to share...
You did everything in your power to help him. Take comfort in knowing that he knew that and loved you deeply for it.

I still feel him with us. Continuing his work is the best tribute that we can pay to our dear friend. NGU. Ever.

:hug:

and he knew. And so did we,fly.


If Land Shark feels compelled to reinvent the rack, well, that's his informed choice.

You know and I know and many of us know what happened. And no revision or relativism will ever change that. Ever.

trying to think of something to say to console you... a smiley won't do. Words from someone you don't know are meaningless (mine)

perhaps you will accept my thanks for letting that out... since I wasn't working at the time I caught the bulk of this live so I knew the story but not anything about the harassment.


peace to you fly

I wonder how much of DUer's and Randi Rhodes' listeners' donations went toward that orchestrated, ghoulish stalking.

People CAME AFTER you and stalked you on a support website? Did a crew just hang out at every cancer message board in wait? Amazing in its level of hatred.

I still hold that a full investigation into who ALL was behind the attack would reveal a lot more about the nature of the parties involved. People do a great deal out of hate, but what's the reward for them to stalk at such an almost...professional level?

Perhaps a few new ugly details will educate those who fail to comprehend the issue. I hope she does attend the gathering and most of her ostensible peers find need of a potty break upon her ascent to the stage.

... I can vouch that it was horrible, horrible, horrible.

The night or so before his surgery, Bev posted something dismissive of his illness and I can tell you all that it hurt him so much especially right then.

Right after the surgery, as soon as he was able to talk almost, Andy wanted his computer so that he could communicate with all of you and say thank you. Well, because of what was going on with the Freepers, we more or less had to hide it from him for a day or so (some of you may remember our posts from Miss Waverly's place.) We printed out most of the good posts from DU and brought them to him on paper (voter-verified paper, heh heh!) but we couldn't take a chance on Andy seeing the Freeper stuff online for a while at least. I wish he NEVER had to see it. Anyway it was a shame he couldn't reach out to the people online that he cared so much about because of this mess.

And it was really creepy in that we never felt safe leaving Andy alone even in ICU. Someone was with him 24/7 and on the lookout.

That's all I am going to say right now; I am leaving for D.C. because it is a big day for election integrity (oh how I wish Andy was here to see these Senate hearings and see these things like the Gov of Florida going for voter-verified paper!) And, as Fly says, we all agreed to keep care of Andy's privacy (what I posted is already in the DU archives and Andy knew about it, so it is not anything that would violate that.)

But please everyone never forget how Andy was hurt -- and that it was horrible.

Thanks for being there with Andy - so glad he was around people who cared so much to go through the effort to keep him 'sheltered' from the venom flying at the time.

The cruelty of others can be stunning - and the depths of cruelty was on display by those hunting, haunting and taunting Andy.

:hug:

then I had to go to a science fair with my son and his wonderful buddy.

Ya know, I stood up for our beloved Andy at a critical moment to a far lesser degree than you did.

There becomes a point at which we must let old grievances pass. Yup they screwed him and probably killed him.

That was utterly heart wrenching for sure.

Yet Land Shark was not involved at all.

We need a legal ace. He is unquestionably one.

Please don't trifle over his appearance on a non public forum with Bev.

His honesty and integrity will overcome her lack thereof.

I promise.

Keep the faith luv.

He is perhaps a fresh face that is untainted and he's got the legal chops to back it up

He's far too smart to fall for past acts of unassuming trust as those of the beloved past were methinks.

but i have watched the bev-burn machine turn on allies who were very, very smart. The end of your post suggests that all of the folks Bev has turned on and worked to discredit (including academics from some of the world's top universities) are "too dumb" (per workin with her before later getting turned on.)

I agree not to reflexively disagree with those who are still willing to take the risk (of a later campaign of discreditment) to work with Bev. However - as you statement reads it suggests that only those not as "intelligent as...x" would be subject to such treatment -but a really smart and well educated person would be 'immune'. But Bev has worked to discredit the work of some very reputable, intelligent folks...

Or should we write off all Election Reformers that Bev has discredited - because they were not smart or well educated enough (tell that to the Stanford and Johns Hopkins Phds) to be 'skeptical' and thus anticipate before the "turn"/betrayal (attempt to discredit) happened? Not Bev's fault - but those folks?

I see "smarts" as being incredibly multifaceted and involving a myriad of far more complicated factors than IQ or academic accomplishments exclusively.

Savvy, common sense, intuitiion, and what some experts refer to as emotional IQ (aka EQ) weigh in as just a few of the mitigating factors but all of this is beside the point.

One of the many ways in which arrived at this unfortunate place of election fraud has very little to do with intellect.

I think we all can agree that not counting votes in an accountable way is just plain dumb and probably even far more diabolical.

I truly see that it is in one regard a problem of language. Most of our representatives are lawyers who are hardly IT experts.

Unfortunately I had a legal snafu a long time ago. It involved a medical condition and had legal repercussions. I found that the language of the Doctor didn't speak to the legal requirements of the case. So I had to translate language so that the court and the Doctor understood each other. It was bizarro. Had I failed to translate it would have had a horrible and totally misrepresentative outcome.

Similarly, most of our representatives are fluent in legalese, though not so in tech speak.

Scarcely few are fluent in both. With no knowledge of proprietary code on vote tabulators or not so smart cards, so much of the legislation that is bandied about to secure our elections will not remedy the real problems inherent in our dire lack of accountability.

IMHO LS understands both languages fluently and what is required to really restore voting integrity. In that regard, he is a tremendous asset.

Aside from all of that, maybe I just don't believe in guilt by association.

Peace.

per the differing (professional) languages often speaking past each other - without even fully realizing the extent to which a 'translator' or 'bilingual' person would be beneficial to the conversation/exchange. I also don't ascribe to 'guilt by association'. Though sometimes said association just makes me a bit cautious from time to time per potential 'blind spots' - but then again we all have blind spots and only through exchanges with others do we discover (and then in the future 'take with a grain of salt' (the same as the 'caution' I refer to earlier) when those blindspots are involved.

Peace to you, as well.

I think it's time we try not to be smart but to learn. :)

is to suggest that those who later got burned, were burned because they were not savvy enough to see the upcoming betrayal. The reality of a trail of betrayals - should be taken to be as the fault of the betrayees rather than a recognized pattern or a betrayer. There were enough stories before the betrayal of Andy. And his betrayal contributed to greater pain during his dying. Those who want to believe "but she still has done some good things for the cause..." - good luck to you. Seriously - as you will need it.

and maybe learn to not fall for the divide and conquer ruse (see the Iraqi mess and all the innumerable, counter productive, on going circular firing squads, and onerous flame wars for ref.) and perhaps cultivate a bit more mutual respect and a boatload more tolerance whilst not mistaking snakes for sharks. LOL

best to you as ever Beth

on edit-see my #148 post for clarification on "smarts"

Transparency is a messy business, Stella. :hug:

Land Shark got into this on account of wonky machines in his county in 2004. People who got involved at that point tend not to want to deal with previous history, especially if they don't have personal knowledge of all the problems that occurred then.

I wouldn't mind at all. Wonder how that cute little pooch is?

Some, like my son's cat thankfully and oddly have immunities to fleas though.

Bev Harris is no longer at DU. What's the point of this gratuitous attack?

You people seem to feel justified in this ugliness because of Andy's death. Rethink that.

Read it ALL. It is not only about Andy. Andy is/was not Bev's only victim, by a long-shot. Bev may not be on DU, but many of her victims are, and so are her apologists and potential victims.

very good reason for pursuing this. It's so she doesn't find anymore victims for her schemes. It's the same reason you want the ax murderer in prison, so that he doesn't kill again.

this isn't Vigilantism Underground.

that he's walking into an oncoming train.

But I don't expect you to get that. Carry on.

Also, it doesn't hurt to air the dirty linen just in case the justice bringers have been clueless until now.

I am NOT saying that I feel i've been defamed here, from what portions i've read, just to be clear, OK? that being said I'll risk my own bit of "oncoming train" advice, something I'd give to anyone engaged in emotional, printed, highly charged debate:

As a lawyer whose done a defamation trial before for a client (and won) I know there are some types of things people would consider a matter of real defamatory content that are nevertheless protected matters of free speech or opinion. There also actionable things that are defamatory and can be proved to be false. Talk about walking into "an oncoming train": I'd consider a defamation lawsuit to be equivalent to said oncoming train. And the train of a lawsuit hits regardless of whether it is a winning or ultimately losing lawsuit for the plaintiff. And, if this thread attacked ME in the same way as it attacks Bev, there would be lawsuits a-coming, cause this is serious stuff in this thread, believe you me....

This is a difficult, but important, balancing process between the right to be free of defamation vs free speech. No hidden messages, just friendly words to the wise, along the lines of friendly advice i've received here.

None. Zip. Zero. I don't even like being mildly irritated with you or any of my friends. lol

And you know that the allegations made against that grifter in this thread have multiple witnesses. We are careful here.

Because as I say downthread, we are all we have. We don't have deep pockets or angels in D.C. We are it.

And as you have seen, that matters to me. It matters very much.

And you know, it's one thing to choose a risky road as a private person. It's a slightly different thing to be an opinion leader with a public presence and choose that same road.

/oops
/ack

Point out the erroneous words and phrases that would result in "lawsuits a-coming, cause this is serious stuff in this thread, believe you me...." Tharze nuttin we love more in this forum than checking and rechecking our arithmetic. Please, help us "be careful out there!"

open to a lawsuit here?

Such a claim tends to chill a discussion, even if it's not intended for that express purpose. I hope there is something here that I'm just not seeing.

I'm not evaluating specific facts in this thread because I don't have a client and if someone lived out of state i may well have to have local counsel to get involved.

But the reasoning process that applies to EVERY case of this type goes like this:

1. To be part of a lawsuit is to lose (forces you to hire a lawyer, lotsa money and time) and you generally don't recover your attorneys fees spent on prosecution or defense, so it's money down the drain for both sides (could be different in some states)

2. So, to be sued is to Lose in my book, regardless of the result of the case. But, if the thought of dropping 50 to 100K and getting a piece of paper that says you were right a year or two later is acceptable to you, then #1 may not fully apply to you.

3. Plaintiff goes first, and things said here accuse of criminality such that the reasonable person would say they are defamatory most likely. Plaintiff wins, subject to defenses.

4. The Defense would be the truth defense. The burden is on the defense to prove that truth. The battle is to unwind all the proof and damage that comes from #3.

5. There's no upside for the defense other than the piece of paper above, it's very unlikely the case would be deemed frivolous, it's more like a good case subject to a strong defense, if the defense is deemed to win. One has a right to file a case and lose, that's why every loser is not automatically a frivolous case.

6. Basically my philoosphy, and i chaired a committee to this effect with a bar association, is that in many cases ALL parties to a lawsuit are losers in the end if they take it all the way. The committee was all about finding alternatives to litigation. But any such alternative has to lead to resolution (clearly no resolution is in process for these subjects)

There's "chillling speech" which is deterring it beforehand, and then there's the proper procedure where rights such as free speech are involved: allow the speech to proceed and then if there is illegality, sort it all out in a subsequent (defamation) lawsuit. By pointing this out I am by no means trying to chill anyone's free speech, but the law of defamation DOES mean to chill people out from saying false things that hurt others.

That should be enough to anger both sides, since, just as I did with my views of democracy and inclusion, i've set forth the principles I think are applicable, and I leave it up to others to apply the facts as they see fit.

I'm not evaluating specific facts in this thread because I don't have a client and if someone lived out of state i may well have to have local counsel to get involved.

Exactly. You don't have a client or a formal complaint. What you are doing on this thread is trying to intimidate free speech and discussion about this issue, which we have a right to have. (Do I detect Bill O'Reilly and Fox security out there?)

So sue me. I hope you carefully check your Bev facts before you do. And speaking of slander I have one word:

SCAMDY!

because if she did, she is subject to discovery and we WILL subpoena her phone records and compare them to the freepers we connected to scamdy.com. We would also see to it that BBV's books were entered into the court record and you can be DAMN SURE the IRS would be taking an interest.

She also knows she will be counter-sued for defamation as well, and discovery is something I am not afraid of at all.

Bev, under oath, oh, I would LOVE that.

What can you get for perjury? IF you perjure yourself multiple times, do the penalties run consecutively or concurrently?

If anyone could ever get the death penalty for perjury, Bev would be that person.

:hi:

but never too far away. :)

Where was this legal support in Andy's last days? Where was it?

Forget that grifter's victims before or since.

Bullshit. I call bullshit.

That's the salient question. Was it just reflexive? Training? Upset?

I'm trying really hard to understand what is going on in this forum. That you or anyone, and that includes anyone historically like Brad and others, let that grifter skate on her attacks on and abuse of activists is abhorrent to me for reasons I've already enumerated at nauseaum. We are our only resource.

Let me put this another way. Were you to represent that grifter today in a defamation case against me, I'd be happy for the opportunity to put her behavior on the record.

by an oncoming train named Bev. I'm just returning that sentiment for advice-giving with some general education about oncoming trains named lawsuits whereby everyone tends to lose, plaintiffs and defendants. i probably like to teach/lecture too much and you may be reading way too much into this.

Defamatory speech is not protected by the US Constitution, and wasn't protected under British common law prior to the Constitution -- so defematory speech was never intended to be protected speech under the First Amendment. Thus, Defamatory speech being chilled is no more a problem than murder being "chilled". What's defamatory and what's protected turn entirely on the true/false question - the very thing I'm just not evaluating. So only a court can sort out at length the true from the false.

Please don't waste too much energy trying to interpet this or read something into it. It's really just returning the favor of advice, and mine is "be careful out there." I think sfexpat and I have an understanding reached privately, so there's nothing for this advice to particularly attach to that would make it any kind of specific hint of any kind. Let's put it this way: I wish all of you all happiness that comes from being sure you are telling the truth.

Do you warn about oncoming train defamation lawsuits "designed to chill discussion" (without "evaluating specific facts") in threads elsewhere on DU or only where discussion relates to Bev Harris?

You say, "the true/false question - the very thing I'm just not evaluating". There are many thousands of threads on DU with facts and opinions. I guess maybe each thread should have a threat of defamation suits posted in order to "chill discussion" while you avoid evaluating the true/false question. Unless you reserve such warnings purely for Bev threads.

Oh, yeah, I nearly forgot... your own defamation and libel of an organization and individuals. I'll be damned if I'll post the link to it and subject those people to that bullshit again. But they did not threaten suits, they faced your crap, called you on your defamation, and openly discussed your nonsense. THEY were NOT cowards.

If you truly think there is ANY defamation at all here, back it up. Quit the "I haven't evaluated it" BS and back it up. You have posted these threats three times.

Put up or STFU.

is the truth.

The only person with a reason to fear the truth would be Bev.

Do you advise Bev the way you advise us? She is certainly not listening.

were being defamed all over the net and by Bev.

in representing any of us against Bev. Somehow, I think her crimes would have been excused then as they are now.

You got that hate-site (which was set up purely for the purpose of accusing Andy and Beth of fraud and to harrass, torment and lie about a dying man) shut down for a short time. Ben and I got it temporarily shut down again. We begged and begged and begged for legal help/advice to stop the slander and harrassment. We got crickets.

I won't make that mistake again.

There's some kind of inuendo there that wouldn't have been there if you simply hadn't talked.

But that was why you talked, isn't it?

Andy would have told me if he'd had legal support because that's how he was.

What utter bullshit.

And I ask again, why did you need to do that?

I haven't alleged anything about that grifter that you are so cosy with, I only pointed out what the whole internet could read.

So, why did you need to bring up defamation in this thread -- as if that empty threat would actually have an effect? You should know better than that, too. Good grief.

No, it's not true that only a court can determine truth. We each of us have to do that every day. Most people would call that "adult responsibility". Most people would know that intuitively. They wouldn't have to tap dance around the issue.

You haven't answered my question. So, let me rephrase it.

Why are you supporting a known abuser of activists and a known tax evader? Someone who didn't have the poise to be a user in good standing on this forum?

You can't be a little pregnant, Land Shark. And that is what you are trying to be. It won't work. The word on this grifter is out.

Who is walking in the mine field, and who is walking outside of it, when we talk about the law of defamation here?

Then why post these woo-woo threats in order to "chill discussion" if you have no issue with any of the facts?

If you have a question or quibble with any point, you could ask or challenge rather than threaten boogey-man suits.

It's impossible to even understand what you refer to. It's a discussion board... how about talking about whatever you are talking about?

Another Bev defamation warning. Bev loves to issue these. Also announcements of C&D letters. And she tells of good ol' Gun-totin' Jim travelin' to my area & snoopin' around, asking after me.

She wouldn't need to try so hard to get people to shut up if she'd behave in a different manner, would she?

I love the smell of baseless threats burning in the morning.

because it would be so damn much easier to admire someone. After these last six years?

Geezus.

She has my address and my phone number. She knows where she can serve the papers.

Any time she wants to compare my version of the facts to hers in a court of law, I am ready and willing, even if I have to represent myself.

Bev couldn't intimidate me then, can't intimidate me now.

and her sock puppets.

They try to "rehabilitate" her reputation and sucker newbies into supporting her.

Not going to happen on our watch.

:kick:

Peace

Do they actually have any election reform folks there? Or did she go there for the sole purpose of damaging Andy?

DU had mostly wised up to her, she'd been banned, so the money-well was running dry.

And, in Bev's own words on FR: "Jim March, the Republican gun lobbyist who is one of the most active members of our board of directors."

Yeesh. One of the "most active" members of her board was armed. Armed and active.

That's some implication there in that quote.

Jim March has written that he never goes anywhere unarmed. Soon after I requested a copy of her first 990 (she is legally required to provide it to any member of the public making a request), Bev outted my personal information- name and address- that she had obtained from my request, on her website. Then she informed me that Jim March had come to my state looking around and asking questions about me.

How's that for implicaion?

as she is.

And with the further information you've given here, it would seem my instincts about the implication Bev presented were correct.

Implying threats would seem to fit her profile, given her history.

that good ol' Republican, gun totin', Jim March had come to my state looking around and asking about me, I took the whole story from Bev as likely bullshit, but certainly took it as an attempted intimidation tactic to tell me to shut up.

Creepy. Just freaky-creepy.

I didn't know this.

I called every morning for two weeks to make sure that everything was ok.

These people have venom dripping from their lips. It truly is DISGUSTING.

:)

I'm glad you were back up, fooj. And I'm glad I have a big dog.

Land Shark was good enough to invite me to this thing as soon as I brought it up to him. I don't think I could go without having a stroke or something.

And the bev behavior continues to pile up. What's the nauseating next thing this woman will do to an activist?

That, for me, is the bottom line. We are all we have. We don't have a ton of money or a big lobby in Washington. We don't even have a bus. We have US, and she'll do anything to us. We know this for a fact now. Don't we?

"Happiness is a confirmed kill"

Sweet, ain't it?

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My facts are very straight, thanks.

a claim of first-hand knowledge - blaming all criticisms as being 'paid for' by 'the enemy' (inferred - in your first DU post) ... sounds rather like Tony Snow defending his boss.

No offense intended, but a single post on an anonymous discussion board - claiming to have 'known' and 'worked' with Bev for years - could be posted by anyone. It isn't convincing and with no info - doesn't have the "wow - that one single post just changed my entire view" or "wow - some stranger might think I am a paid operative by those perpetuating election fruad - I better stop posting anything " effect.

But gee, you shamed us with this post.

I WORK FOR ME.

What's really upsetting about this thread is that it's true, not that it isn't true. The whole internet could read that grifter sitting at a nutwing site, trying to pick pockets and slandering and dismissing Andy *while* he was recovering from surgery. There is a political reason to dislike that behavior but that isn't why this thread was posted.

The next time you see that grifter, tell her there is no fig leaf big enough for her to hide her corruption, okay?

;)

:shrug: