If this fraud story dies, it's Kerry's fault

I'm prepared for the onslaught of angry responses, but I gotta say this.

Kerry is clearly trying to play on both sides. He didn't come out strongly enough about how "every vote counts." And he conceded waaaaay too soon, probably to not look like a sore loser and preserve his chances of running in '08.

But his way too little way too late approach to this possible Ohio recount is, imo, just a way to try and placate the pissed off base so that if he runs again, we will support him.

And the sad reality is that, just like his position in Iraq, his trying to be everything to everyone means that he is effective at nothing. He won't really push for an investigation but he'll leave a little doubt as to whether he really thought this selection was in the bag.

My prediction - he'll drop this after he is "satisfied" that * won. And then months from now, after the boy king is returned to the throne, the press or some activist group will discover how many votes each candidate REALLY got (like the journalist vote study in Florida that showed Gore really won).

But then it will be too late. The 4th Reich will have gained power and will surely be planning the theft of '08 knowing that they have to stay one step ahead of voting technology.

Dean would not have taken this sh*t.

ducking now.....

Lost in such a huge landslide Bushie wouldn't have even needed to rig the election.

but you can't hide!

:p

as tired as i am of all the kerry bashing, i'm just about as tired of spinning the broken record in support.

bah!

the worst part is seeing people jump off and on bandwagons. were you loyal supporters in the first place? jeez.

kerry was asked THREE times during the debates about voting for the 87 billion and then voting against it. NOT ONCE DID HE GIVE A STRAIGHT ANSWER, EVEN THOUGH THERE WAS ONE.

When Kerry was in Arizonia during the campaign he was asked if he still would have voted for giving * authorization for the war in Iraq, and he said he would have voted the same way.

I am sorry, but when ANYONE in Congress gives up there constitutional DUTY to declare war to the executive branch, they no longer are doing their job.

When Pelosi, and the majority of dems in the house vote for house resolution 757 introduced by henry hyde which link 9/11 with the war in Iraq, you know that our party no longer has any principles

I was loyal if loyal means working 12-14 hour days for a month to get him elected. I was not loyal if that means thinking he was the best candidate or agreeing that he would be a great President.

that by time the primarys got to oregon every one else had dropped out. then yeah I was loyal. Was he my first choice then no. or do you mean that I was loyal to a need for change in this country then yes I am still loyal. But when someone says If you have my back I'll have yours and then doesn't follow through. then he just lied to me. I know all politicians lie, we needed someone who would back up what they said but that was not what happened. Is this bandwagon jumping maybe, but what bandwagon are you talking about? being a democrat, independent or a Kerry fan?

that we have already done a huge job. There already is going to be a recount in New Hampshire, Florida, and Ohio. I am sure that if there are big problems there, they will challenge other states like New Mexico.

The matter of the fact is the ball is rolling now, it is just a matter of how much it picks up on the way down. Don't get me wrong, we still need to keep at it...

nor Nader. Those guys never intended to win either. Kerry has to fight in his own way to win. Then he can become what he truly is, an anti-war hero. I think and hope we have not heard the last from Kerry.

Nothing has changed

An attorney general, who said that the geneva convention is irrelevent is going to be approved, and the "me to" democrats will just let it happen

I am quite close to throwing in the towel on the democratic party, and looking for someone else

Dean had more passion in his little finger then everyone in congress has

n/t

Even if it comes out that he does win I will NEVER vote for him again. If I have to write in a canadate then I will. I have zilch respect for him now. Did he actually believe that there would only be a small lie (steal)? If your going to lie lie big. (right) The *Co has proven this is how they work again and again in this last term. :)

I'll never vote for him. He had a chance to fight for us and he blew it. He thought of his own political career (of course) before what was right.

And then six months from now we will find out that this was in the bag and he could have been president.

If only he had fought harder.

And to the person who said the DNC also sold us up the river, I couldn't agree more.

And don't even get me started on Alberto "what do we need those pesky Geneva Conventions for anyway?" Gonzales.....

In regard to Kerry, I thought the other morning laying in bed... fuck 'the Real Deal' we got 'The RAW deal'!... :grr:

ummmm... lol

I thought Kerry grew during the campaign and I worked very hard to get him elected... but I do think Dean is a much better fighter.

every vote will count. simple

then it will be harder for us to get to the bottom of all of this. As soon as they come out the repubs will muddy the waters with "flip flop, superficial wounds, threw metals over the wall, monicagate, whitewater, 87 billion, etc..............". I think this is all an orchestration between the dems, and Nader and Cobb. And then again, I could also be wrong. :)

nothing will come out of this, because kerry and the democratic party has folded....

what a great 2 party system

and IT IS THE GRASSROOTS that have to regenerate contributions for this recount

THE DNC WILL NOT GET ANOTHER DIME FROM ME

Bev Harris or grass roots group will

because the media stress on the situation would be trmendous, and probably lead to a rushed or quickened decidion. Relatively, no one is paying attention, so the investigation can get a lot more, and quicker.

I think Kerry is playing it smart. If he came out swinging, he'd have gotten knocked out. The Republicans would have destroyed him. Bush & the Reps have A LOT of power/control.

The re-counts & investigations on now will tell the story. If NH shows the machines were fixed to favor Bush, that would open some eyes. I think there will be a good look at Ohio, too.

The media will need something to fill space, now that Baby Conner's murderer is ending his run on TV.

he had been trying to get through to Kerry for three days and had been unsuccessful. It's possible this is "cover." But I fear Nader may have just been stating a simple fact.

We'll know shortly.

...whenever I bring up this subject of another stolen election ,even those who voted for Kerry and are very depressed about another four years of bush ,they look at me funny when I tell them it was stolen again. What they believe is that the repugs turned out in larger #'s because of the moral issuses of gay marriage and abortion ! To me the results just dont make any sense, how many who voted for Gore ,voted for bush this time and if they did ,how could they be so stuuuuupid !
It will be a real shame that another election is stolen and the story never even gets out. I want bush to face an impeachment,the only way this would happen would be if saomeone very close to the inner circle suddenly grows a guilt complex, I'm not holding my breath ! :-[

to vote their homophobia.

But it isn't enought to explain the difference between expected and actual results this year..

1. A lot of people who voted for Bush in 2000 are pissed and probably voted for Kerry.

2. Hardly anybody who voted for Gore in 2000 defected and voted for *.

3. Most of Nader's supporters from 2000 moved over to Kerry's for 2004.

4. A ton of new voters registered just for the reason of voting * out of office.

And considering how close the margin of "victory" was in 2000, if you do the simple math, there is no way * won 2004.

They watched TV. The media told us who won and why.

"It was good that so many people got out and voted, but the Repubs got more votes. It's the people who stayed home that cost us."

My friend hasn't figured out what the people who stayed home already figured out.

The system, by and large, is a fraud.

Kerry is a pretty slick politician and in recent weeks he has been listening to Bill Clinton. It is possible that he knows exactly what he is doing. While the press isnt covering the story, the lawsuits and recounts are proceeding. It is likely that the vote tallies are going to look very different after the recounts. And once that happens, Kerry can step back in the spotlight and exclaim about how outraged he is to find that the electoral process in America has been corrupted and how he is going to fix it. In other words, instead of being a Sore Loserman who increases Americans sense of anxiety he will be a Knight in Shining Armor who swoops down to make everything right.

Also, think about what happens if Kerry wins Ohio. Bush will fight like you won't believe. The lawsuits will hit the roof -- and Bush OWNS THE ROOF. Some people will say that National Security will be a big concern.

What Votergate really needs badly is a face... and, it can't be Kerry's. It needs a personality. The people need something to hang their hat on. So far, the media isn't going for it... scandals are driven by FACES/PERSONALITIES that the media can put on... that's the way it is in modern times.

I loved Clinton. I liked John Edwards. I wasn't much for Dean because he just came on too strong for my tastes.
However, I started watching Kerry. I listened to him. He did have a message and I started believing that our country had a chance to fix this mess that Bush started. When the dust settled, I really did like Kerry. I liked the offer he held of a new chance for our country and I embraced it. I liked his quiet authority and respect that he held. If you remember in the third debate, Bush came on gangbusters and demanded to answer out of turn and Schiefer let him. I was disappointed that he was allowed to do what he wanted during the debates--but I digress. There was an instance where Kerry wanted to rebut something and he stood up and Bob Schiefer wouldn't let him speak--so he sat down like a gentleman instead of some maniacal little toddler. That earned points in my book, because I saw at that point in time--how Presidential he was--and how that trait of knowing when to sit down and shut up could be effective in dealing with leaders of others countries..and as an adult and a business owner, that simple respect will take you so much further than tantrums ever could.
Perhaps Kerry just knows that this is a good time to "sit down and shut up"..that there will be another smarter, more effective way to get his message across.
Isn't one of the things that is such a turn off to you in Bush is his arrogance and "I'm always right" attitude?If it is, then we certainly cannot advocate Kerry to take an approach that is out of character for him and abrasive to the general public just so that we have what knowledge we seek "Now". That is just my opinion.

:hi:

Jack of all trades master of none. That's what happens when you try to be something to everyone. I can't stand Bush but at least he knows who his base is. His base is a bunch of sick, perverse, bible thumping, whack jobs who think Jesus is on his way to come take them to heaven. I'm not talking about regular people who go to church service, mass, temple, or mosque either, I'm talking Jim Jones type of people. I didn't want Kerry as the nominee. I didn't even get to vote in the primaries, I'm from Jersey. They should have one primary one the same day for the whole country, the winner is the nominee. Okay, I got it off my chest.

Now being Kerry was the nominee, I supported him. I really do feel that Kerry on his worst day was better than Bush on his best. Bush is a nightmare, and I really feel Kerry was cheated. I do understand him not wanting to be thought of as a sore loser, I really do. Doesn't anyone see that this is just the beginning of this garbage and if something isn't done to stop this fraud, it will get much worse. Kerry must see that. He must also see that Bush's base is NOT the majority in this country and that's why there was fraud.

Kerry should be himself, he should be proud of his antiwar stance and he should have embraced it and defined it rather than letting KKKarl Rove's Swifties Liars For Bush Fraud do it. He should stop trying to appeal to those Reich Wing nut jobs, they aren't worth it.

Now I'm going to say something a little off topic. If these churches want to be involved in politics then TAX them. Separation of church and state.

:think:

This can't be a issue with sides for it to go anywhere... Do you want the half this country who's as we know blinded by the bias they so often accuse us of to think this is a political power move?

It would be just the stupidist thing he did over the last two years to make this not about the law. His profile being so high keep Kerry in the back seat and let someone else drive this issue. Yes it would get greater attention if Kerry was mixing it up, but it would also change the framing and make the issue easy to attack.

Look this is smart, "the brain" had already set this trap and was waiting for it to be triggered, guess what Kerry did not fall into it. Smart and better for america that the rest of the parties work together on this, united there are no sour grapes and the republiclan is going to have a hard time just shitting on demorats.

I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that Kerry, thinking of his own political future, could be willing to go along. He has invested his whole life, not to mention a sh*tload of money, to get to a presidential run. If he thinks that fighting the reich and looking like a sore "loser" will hurt his chances, he just might capitulate.

I would like to believe you are right - that the prosecutor in him is just going at this more surreptitiously.

But I just don't have that much trust left in mainstream pols.

I hope you turn out to be right, though.

If it weren't for that we really would have a problem at all. They own public opinion period. How many still believe they are not full of shit? Too many... Until we can drop evidence, in a manner that they have a rough time refuting we can't win public opinion. That is why this is a multi-party effort, and hopefully turns into every standing Americans effort, even those who we disagree with. It only benefits those who cheat if we fail.

of public opinion.

Those drones watch it and lap it right up.

Sadly, I think even a smoking gun would not be believed by a significant number of Americans or by any of * supporters.

If even half of the people who supposedly voted for * really did, it still frightens me. I've never seen a "president" f*ck up worse and still be able to brainwash people into thinking he is in the right.

scary times.

I wanted to ask this on a new thread but just joined and they won't let me.

I think it would be nice if we could get folks to contact them and ask them to abstain from voting unless this mess is resolved.

There is hardly any way that a Republican elector is going to do anything other than vote for Bush. They definately won't listen to a far lefty who is trying to get them to help Kerry.

and then send the pictures to their spouses.

But we do need support his effort in the decisive state of Ohio, where there was an incredible ammount of disenfrachizement and fraud!

He probably quit quickly because he knew the Supreme Court was stacked against him.

But this struggle is really about stopping the fraud and bringing some of the perpetrators to Justice, so the Republicans don't just go and expand the fraud yet further in 2006. By 2006, Bush will be one of the most unpopular Presidents ever--so they will need plenty of fraud to stop Democrats from taking over Congress!

and they'll be getting more fraud opportunities as counties "upgrade" their voting systems. As it is they can pretty much decide what results they want to have.

Even if Kerry's heart is no longer in this, we can change it and remove Shrub from office. I want to see a black stain on the Bush name and his administration forever. The brutal, murdering son of a Bush is going down. The combined force of the many will overwhelm the Rovian Dark Forces.

Donate more money to Help America Recount
Slam the media with email - US and foreign
Keep this discussion alive - more curious seekers will find us and be enlightened
Protest in Ohio, Florida, Nevada, New Mexico

The more we talk of Fraud and Votergate the more it will sink into everyones' minds. We must keep shouting.

There was about 60% turnout. Then 30% voted for Kerry, 30% of Americans voted for Bush (don't know why). 40% didn't give a crap or were prevented from voting. Most of these 40% would probably lean towards Kerry. Bush has no mandate.

I am not letting up on this. If Kerry is not elected, then Bush is impeached.

We're well on our way towards that end, thanks to a lot of folks here. Once we get that accurate count, if it changes the results of the election, there is no way that news will die.

So, we're past the point where this story can die as long as we complete our investigations of the states in question.

ANY involvement by Senator Kerry in these investigations would result in the SCLM making John Kerry, himself, the story. That is why the current tactics are working so well. The media and GOP cannot hide the truth by misdirecting everyone's attention. The facts are waiting to be revealed. Our investigations will make that happen.