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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:07 PM
Original message
Deibold wins again!
N.H. uses Deibold voting machines...

Corporate USAmerika wins again!

http://www.nhpr.org/node/10407


You can now return to your (rigged) horse race.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. They'd Be Smart Not To Try This Again
but they are blinded by arrogance and greed. This will be a nail in their coffin.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Yes, I had no idea that NH was so damn homogeneous that every precinct reporting in ...
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 12:15 PM by ShortnFiery
throughout the evening, without exception, maintained and then, oh so slightly, increased the HRC 2 percent lead to 3 percent.

Can we say, "Bought and paid-for by HRC's mighty DLC Machine?" :crazy:
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Sounds like they are refining the technique
It was too obvious in 2004.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Oh but there's more, Harry Reid's SON (family loves nepotism) is the Democratic Campaign Manager
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 12:24 PM by ShortnFiery
for HRC in Nevada.

When it's an no paper-trail producing Dibold election, only their smarmy corporate execs know for sure. :evilgrin:

Beyond Dibolding, can you imagine all the ass-grabbing manipulations and deal-cutting that is being sponsored by the DLC Machine with "Harry Reid and his boys" as the bag men?!? :crazy:

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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
58. And in 2006
When Mary Jo Kilroy was robbed. Still makes me angry to think about that one.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
36. You tell em SnF!
Kucinich "really" won, right??!!! :rofl:
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #1
21. spin spin spin spin spin spin spin
damn I thought that was the republican meme. But I guess when Obama LOSES and he will again, the doodle boppers are going to have to come up with another excuse next time...they've used those white folks won't vote for him, Clinton's name comes up higher in the alphabet, gee now the machines were crooked. J.C. what in the hell are they going to pull out of their ass next.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thank for the confirmation.....
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
3. YES!!! MY CANDIDATE NO WIN!!! VOTE IS RIGGED!!!!!!!!
That seems to be the refrain at this site among sore losers, no matter what the election is for apparently.
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SoCalDemGrrl Donating Member (786 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
52. No - it's not that at all. Its the discrepancy with the polls. Polls used to be
right on the money... until we incorporated these damn corporate controlled
voting machines.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Here's my "take" on this issue...
Voting machine manipulation is most effective if it is undetected. The elections must be close in order for the manipulation to be viewed as a "it could have gone either way" situation. Obama was supposed to have been double digits ahead of Clinton. It would be counter productive to manipulate the vote to such a large extent, because of the very likelihood that the manipulation would be exposed. Do you think that Obama and/or Edwards would just silently swallow a primary being stolen form either of them to the tune of double digit fraud? If so, neither of them deserve to be President, anyway. If there had been this big of a fraud, both campaigns would be screaming bloody murder - and they aren't...
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tritsofme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. DIEBOLD DIEBOLD DIEBOLD
Rationality has no place in these discussions.
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ThePhilosopher04 Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
23. Not true...
If any candidate made a claim of voter fraud at this point, they would be considered sore losers and likely toast for even bringing it up. It's a no win situation.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #23
44. So, should we just not vote?
:shrug:
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2rth2pwr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. Obama is in on it. nt
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
53. The scary thing is, it's very easy to make even large swings in the vote tabulation
This was demonstrated on a news program 2 years ago-- it's extremely easy to access the folders with the tallies and then change a couple digits, alter the results, and leave very little trace of intrusion. The Diebold systems are eminently hackable.
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onehandle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
6. Bull. See Skinner's post...
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. You're an idiot
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. that's quite an understatement.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Well, when me and mine survive the collapse
of your glorious corporate capitalist system...





We'll have forgotten the likes of you, wolfie...





Good riddance!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. it won't happen. We have diebold, skull and bones, and the illuminati on our side.
:)
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gorekerrydreamticket Donating Member (422 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #38
54. All of which take their orders from the Bilderbergers....
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 11:25 PM by gorekerrydreamticket
and the Masons...
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Onlooker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama and Clinton are too similar
I don't think one can attribute this to Diebold. If Edwards was expected to win, then possibly Diebold would be involved. But, Obama and Clinton are not far apart on the issues. Obama's a little better on Iraq and Clinton's a little better on health care, but neither of them are particularly anti-corporate. The only real liberal in the race is Edwards.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. It was an exercise and an attention getter
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 12:25 PM by ProudDad
I've heard hours of "coverage" of Iowa and N.H. and haven't hear ONE FUCKING WORD ABOUT policies, plans or proposals.

It's nothing but hours of total BULLSHIT about polls, strategies and money raising!

Foma, foma, foma...

This is the great 3 Card Monty game that USAmerikan politics has become. Nothing better to grab your attention on useless bullshit than to jigger N.H. to let hillary eke out a win and muddy the waters again. It also helps make the majority of voters who are NOT for hillary more confused, anxious and nervous.

See, I really don't give a flying fuck which part of ObamClintWardMcCainOmnyLiani wins in November...the corporate capitalist masters win no matter which interchangeable part "wins" and we lose again.

I'm working locally in order to survive the coming collapse.

You should too.
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Excellent advice PD, I think that I will follow it.
I'm working locally in order to survive the coming collapse.

You should too.
:thumbsup: :hi:
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
60. Great post, and encapsulates the anger
that I'm sure a lot of us are sensing about this idiocy.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #15
63. All else aside, this is good advice:
"I'm working locally in order to survive the coming collapse.

You should too."

I agree that this is what we all should be doing, because I really do believe it is coming...
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. *yawn*
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
14. Sour grapes wins again
This is soooo embarrassing!
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riqster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. What's worse is hearing Dems repeat the Reeps' talking points from 2000
...when fraud is brought up. "Sour Grapes, Sore Loser, Get over it". EXACTLY what the Reeps said to us, now you say it to our own.

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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. Diebold will do for Hillary what it did for Bush, what's the fucking sense...!
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. How are those sour grapes tasting this morning??
So when you don't get what you want you blame fraud? How gauche.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. If Diebolds give you a repug prez when the Dem is high in the polls is it still sour grapes?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. See, this time they have repugs leading both parties
again...
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
22. How did they run out of ballots if they use voting machines?
There were wide spread reports of ballot shortages.

NH uses paper ballots. The machines count paper ballots. How do you plan to count all those ballots? by hand?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Stupid is as stupid does. NT
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. ...
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elixir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh, puhleeze. Try again, with something credible next time.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. I have a better source...."As of November 26, 2007".
http://www.sos.nh.gov/voting%20machines2006.htm

New Hampshire Municipalities which use the ACCUVOTE Voting Machine
(as of November 26, 2007)

On the Accuvote ballot, the voter fills in an oval which is placed next to a candidate's name.
After voting, the voter places the ballot in an optical scanning machine which will read all votes
cast on that ballot.

***** List of municipalities......

All other municipalities in New Hampshire use paper ballots, where the voter marks an X in a box printed next to a candidate's name. Votes are counted by hand.


That means that there is a 100% paper trail so that ballots can be recounted by machine scanners or by hand. Sorry, but your thesis has no merit.

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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
28. Ah, Diebold-- just the sound of that name
induces retching.
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Maybe manufactured by Diebold but those 100% paper ballots are hand recountable.
Only no paper trail machines would be rigged.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Gee, when's the recount schedule for? (n/t)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
29. It's called Premier Elections now. And it needs to be prompted to steal.
This was primaries people.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #29
49. Not only that, but the ballot order is randomized throughout the state
That requires the conspiracy to rig many, many, many more machines.

But alas the machines that counted the ballots were manufactured by "Diebold," which is a "corporation"...which are two words meant to terrorize you so you won't bother to realize the ballots themselves were designed and handled by other people.

Hillary won because people felt bad for her and New Hamsphire voters don't like the media telling them who to vote for.

Obama lost because the media inflated him to make the race more interesting, and it backfired.

Edwards lost because many Democrats remember how he couldn't even carry North Carolina for Kerry and had to resign because he couldn't get re-elected.

There's no conspiracy there.
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dugggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. When polls are off by 8 to 15%, it's gotta be Diebold!!
That is the knee jerk reaction. Yesterday's election proved to me
that when polls are off, it is not Diebold. It is not voter suppression.
It is not shortage of ballots or voting machines. It is not intimidation.

IT JUST MEANS POLLSTERS ARE FULL OF SHIT!!!!
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
33. Actually, the whole selection process is rigged
the possibility of the N.H. count being jiggered to cause confusion and get your attention away from the way your corporate capitalist masters are robbing you blind is just a tactic.

The big money owns the 2008 selection, the big money will buy the 2008 selection -- you'll just be voting for which deck chair on the Titanic gets the most exposed position.

But you CAN do something substantive. Stop feeding the beast.

Buy local. Don't buy anything from wal-K-targ-mart. Buy used.

Think twice and for most of the shit you don't have to buy at all!

Starve the beast...


But for Dog's sake, don't believe that ANY of the candidates of the two right-wings of the big business party will do SHIT for you or yours!
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youthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Who has that "Ah geez, not this shit again" graphic?
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
37. There is very little doubt in my mind...THIS WAS possibly RIGGED!
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 01:55 PM by lisainmilo
I was wondering how JRE got a STEADY stream of 17% throughout the last 2/3 of the elections. Do I think JRE is the true winner..emphatically NO!

Do I think it odd that his number (17%) NEVER flucuated....emphatically YES!

<snip>

NH: First in the Nation with Corporate Controlled Secret Vote Counting

By Nancy Tobi
Democracy for NH Article

81% of New Hampshire ballots are counted in secret by a private corporation named Diebold Election Systems (now known as "Premier"). The elections run on these machines are programmed by one company, LHS Associates, based in Methuen, MA. We know nothing about the people programming these machines, and we know even less about LHS Associates. We know even less about the secret vote counting software used to tabulate 81% of our ballots. People like to say "but we use paper ballots! They can always be counted by hand!"

But they're not. They're counted by Diebold. Only a candidate can request a hand recount, and most never do so. And a rigged election can easily become a rigged recount, as we learned in Ohio 2004, where two election officials were convicted of rigging their recount. (Is it just a funny coincidence that Diebold spokesman is named Mr. Riggall?)

We need to get the count right on election night. Right now, nobody in New Hampshire, except the programmers at LHS Associates and Diebold Election Systems, knows if we are getting it right or wrong. Our state officials and representatives know this. They learned all about it when computer security specialists Harri Hursti and Bruce Odell testified before the legislative subcommittee on e-voting in September 2007 (Hursti's testimony is shown in this video). Scientific reports about the vulnerabilities and risks with Diebold optical scanners have been available since 2003.


<snip>

http://inteldaily.com/?c=173&a=4778

I have almost given up on democracy.......I don't believe the results at all. Obama was seen soaring within the first few minutes, then boom click click it changed.....the numbers stayed the same as more and more precincts were reported. Through 2/3 of the results the same steady stream of 17% showed up to vote for JRE? What are the chances of that? The same steady stream also showed up to keep Richardson at 5%, what are the chances of that? If anyone does not question this, I think that is odd also. When it comes to the GE...will you cry FOUL then? This is a very serious issue and needs to be scrutinized, but it won't be. Maybe we should take Bushs' advice and just "go shopping"


:grr:


Edit: skinners thread of CNN gives me hope that maybe the results are true:http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2639218

I hope democracy is still alive.....I am watching all sides like most of us are.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. Oh, no
Do the opposite of what bush advised...

Don't shop!!!

Make connections with your local economy, your local farmers, your local small businesses.

Buy USED!

Buy Local!

Don't buy anything unless you REALLY need it!

Starve the corporate capitalist beast that's killing us all...


Check the link below...
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lisainmilo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. I was kidding Proud Dad
:)
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm not kidding...
:hi:

I'm deadly serious.

The only way to survive the coming collapse of the corporate capitalist system is to build local connections and community.

Good Luck! :hi:
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
43. Ya know, all this harping makes legitimate concerns about diebold appear foolish.
Can we be careful not to equate every thing that disappoints us - election wise to a diebold scam?
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
46. Did Diebold rig for McCain also or just Hillary?
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BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. Grow up. There's a reason we bother to have people actually vote.
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sam kane Donating Member (326 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
48. Obama won the hand-counted precincts, rural voters
WE all know how many, young more liberal people live in the country! Must be a lot of communes in NH.
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Stewie Donating Member (244 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Yes, those are the same precincts Dean won against Kerry.
Edited on Wed Jan-09-08 05:48 PM by Stewie
Rural does not equal redneck. They're just more anti-establishment.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
51. My candidate loses therefore the election must be rigged
What a pathetic thread.
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LittleBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
55. I want a recount, just to quell the furor.
But I really think Hillary won anyway.
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #55
61. Heart of the matter is lack of confidence in the voting system
Many disagree on the results, but everyone agrees that there are fundamental doubts about the reliability of voting machines that have been demonstrated to be very hackable at multiple points, not just at the level of the Opti-scans but at any point in the count. That is, not the voting as much as the counting, as others have been writing. This is a serious problem in a democracy.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
56. The possibility of fraud is not proof of fraud
I take it you're not a Hillary supporter?
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. I am against the rape of the Commons
Edited on Thu Jan-10-08 02:19 AM by ProudDad
perpetrated by the corporate capitalist masters...

The ones who have bought the entire selection of 2008...

and are ObamClintCainOmnyUliani's masters...



So I guess hillary would be included in my list of corporate tools I don't support.

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #56
62. Have you never noticed how the polls are never that far off in states that caucus?
Because the votes are counted by hand!

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-09-08 11:48 PM
Response to Original message
57. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-10-08 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
64. ...
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