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Do You Believe in Secret Vote Counting?

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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:27 PM
Original message
Do You Believe in Secret Vote Counting?


*NEW* Hand-Counted Paper Ballot Election Administration Handbook

Do you believe in secret vote counting?

No? If instead, you believe votes ought to be cast in private but counted in public, this Handbook is for you.

Computerized voting equipment has been used in America's elections since the mid-1960s. With computerization came privatization as well. Our votes -- by which all other rights are secured -- have been claimed as private property by the voting machine vendors, who count them in secret, tell us what the results are, then lock away the records, denying the citizens access to inspect and verify our own votes.

We all know that secret vote counting doesn't belong in a democracy. The only legitimate elections are those that are conducted in full public view, with transparent, publicly accountable procedures for counting, reporting, auditing and preserving the votes.

We owe it to our country, ourselves, and future generations, to protect the foundation and ensure the integrity of our democratic process.

Fortunately for us, it turns out this is easy to do.Hand counting is simple, accurate, auditable, cost effective, and eminently do-able in every polling place in the country -- and the new Hampshire experience provides the proof.


http://www.electiondefensealliance.org/HCPB_election_admin_handbook
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wish the democratic party INC and obama/hillary believed in hand counting votes in public nt
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I'll never get it, Barack/Hillary still Remain silent ,
they are in a contest to see who gets the most votes, but yet neither one of them are concerned with how the votes get counted.

They beg us for money to help them get votes, but yet when you want them to speak publicly about how the votes will be counted, they refuse to do so.

:crazy:

I hope they are having fun in their make believe (I'm running for president) world.

It hurts me to have to say this about our Democratic candidates but, what else is there to say?

Embarrassing just Embarrassing!
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Obama was asked about the 2004 election
his answer showed a complete lack of understanding of the situation.
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. link? n/t
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Bonn1997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm not familiar with that
Please provide more details. Thanks.
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Jane Austin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. I believe in publicly counted votes and publicly posted results
at the precinct level.

Then they shold go to the central counting place.

If there is any difference, they get hand counted again - in public.

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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Are these people hand counting complicated paper ballots?
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
4. Bullshit-- you go handcount if you think it's so easy...
Once again, I will mention that I am an election inspector and hand counting is almost impossible in this day and age. Historically, it has been the most error-prone and corruptable method of counting, hence the various mechanical and electronic machines to do it right.

We use cash registers, adding machines, calculators, and computerized ledgers... Why? Because they are vastly superior to handwritten records. Or do you seriously argue that we should also go back to books of yellow ledger paper and ultrafine pencils?

So, we shall continue to vote by machine, and the only question remaining is the accuracy of the machine. Every bank and store chain has standards for accuracy and audit trails in its cash handling, so there is no reason for voting machines to not reach the same level of accuracy.



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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Fat chance, my Friend
"So, we shall continue to vote by machine, and the only question remaining is the accuracy of the machine. Every bank and store chain has standards for accuracy and audit trails in its cash handling, so there is no reason for voting machines to not reach the same level of accuracy"

The only thing preventing Hand Counted Paper Ballots right now in this country is the media and the silence from the machine selected politicians.

MARK MY WORDS as soon as enough people know and understand this electronic vote count scam, AMERICA WILL RETURN TO HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS (PERIOD)
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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Yeah right-- I'm out there doing it on election day, you're...
just talking shit.

Fat chance my county is going to find people to sit around till 2 AM counting ballots. We can barely get people for the 16 hour day as it is.




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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. In the future I want our kids to be able to Hand Count their ballots out in the open
FOR ALL TO SEE, What do you want for our kids?

Forget about me, your kids just asked you, What is the most secure way to count ballots, Whats your answer to them slick.

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TreasonousBastard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. A world where people know what they are talking about. n/t
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I know you will avoid it, but your kids, nieces or nephews
just asked you, What is the most secure way to count ballots, Whats your answer to them?


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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. It's very telling in Siegelman interview (Tom Hartman show yesterday) the remark
Edited on Thu May-01-08 11:12 PM by diva77
that Rove fought tooth and nail to prevent a hand count of the votes ...VERY telling
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:44 PM
Original message
The truth is surrounding these guys, Their only security force is the
media, MSM.

If Hannity/Oreily Limballs was the only thing protecting me from the people getting the truth, I'd be one scared M_th_r F_cker right now.

:)
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-01-08 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. The truth is surrounding these guys, Their only security force is the
media, MSM.

If Hannity/Oreily Limballs was the only thing protecting me from the people getting the truth, I'd be one scared M_th_r F_cker right now.

:)
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diva77 Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Telling excerpt from Siegelman Interview
Edited on Fri May-02-08 12:14 AM by diva77
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thom-hartmann/interview-with-former-ala_b_99338.html

Don Siegelman: Well yes, we have been saying it, we have been saying it since the night of the election. I mean, we won the election, the votes were counted and were declared and then in one county which is controlled by Republicans the, after midnight when everybody went home, when the poll workers were sent home, when the media was gone, they decided to electronically recount these votes and shifted the votes and certified the vote illegally the next day. Then, interestingly, Karl Rove's client stepped in, the attorney general stepped in and said,'if anybody tries to hand count these votes we're going to put them in jail'. We initially had a green light from the local Republicans in this one area that we could come in and hand count these ballots where the electronic shift occurred.

Thom Hartmann: But then the Republican, the Attorney general said no.



box & bold type added for emphasis
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kster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. 'if anybody tries to hand count these votes we're going to put them in jail'.
Yet Obama and Clinton REMAIN SILENT?

Al Gore on Hand Counted Paper Ballots

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=469812

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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
15. I believe it exists.... but I don't like it :)
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