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"SPECIAL REPORT: The Myth of Widespread Non-Citizen Voting; A Response to the Heritage Foundation"

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kpete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 05:51 PM
Original message
"SPECIAL REPORT: The Myth of Widespread Non-Citizen Voting; A Response to the Heritage Foundation"
http://truthinimmigration.org/CompleteStory.aspx?sid=85


SPECIAL REPORT: The Myth of Widespread Non-Citizen Voting
August 20, 2008In a recent segment, CNN anchor Lou Dobbs told viewers that substantial evidence suggests that large numbers of non-citizens, including undocumented immigrants, are voting in federal elections and could be the deciding factor in November’s elections. The story primarily cites a recent report published by the Heritage Foundation. The report is written by former recess-appointed FEC Commissioner Hans von Spakovsky, whose troubling record on voting rights caused him to withdraw his name from consideration for a permanent FEC seat. Von Spakovsky’s report contains gross distortions and represents an attempt to support a policy agenda that would disenfranchise many U.S. citizens.

Truth in Immigration has written a report scrutinizing the claims of the Heritage Foundation study. To read the report:
http://truthinimmigration.org/CompleteStory.aspx?sid=85
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WillYourVoteBCounted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. yes, the illegals swarm to the polls after cleaning Lou's daughters stables
he's such a crank.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R for busting this myth.
Thanks, kpete.
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. The problem Repukes have is that the only voting fraud case they have
is Mannthrax Coultergeist ...
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 07:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. What about snowbirds?
I live around a bunch of retired conservatives, many of whom head to the southwest for the winter. I wonder how many are going to vote in each state where they have a residence.
Conservatives are the ones that are always working the system for themselves - any and all systems!
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-20-08 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thanks for helping clear this up.
Edited on Wed Aug-20-08 11:18 PM by Wilms
I appreciated reading this snip.

The GAO study as a whole belies von Spakovsky’s assertion, however.

The 2005 report features data from 14 U.S. district courts. GAO researchers asked staff associated with these courts for information about the number of individuals who were called for jury service and responded that they were non-citizens. These researchers found that the “AOUSC officials and federal jury administrators we spoke with generally did not have exact data on the number of people called for jury service that responded that they were non-citizens.” Due to the lack of concrete data, 6 of the 14 gave no information to the GAO. Of the remaining 8 jurisdictions, 4 of them had never witnessed non-citizens who had been called to serve on a jury. Ten of the 14 district courts surveyed, then, could offer no evidence whatsoever of non-citizens in jury pools.

Ignoring this, von Spakovsky presents isolated data from just one of these fourteen jurisdictions.

Further, 3 of the 4 courts that did report non-citizens in their jury pools estimated that on-citizens comprised, respectively, approximately 1%, 0.158%, and 0.01% of the jury pool. Von Spakovsky, in his attempt to manufacture concern about a nonexistent crisis, simply ignores key elements of the GAO report which do not support his hypothesis that noncitizens threaten the integrity of U.S. elections.

It should be noted, furthermore, that being called to jury duty is not the same thing as voting fraudulently in an election (despite Von Spakovsky’s suggestion that jury pools are proxies for voter participation). As noted in the GAO report, several of the district courts’ jury pools contained names drawn from state identification or driver’s license records in addition to voter registration lists. Even assuming that non-citizens in jury pools appear on voter registration rolls, that wouldn’t establish that a) these voters have ever voted in federal elections or b) that these voters voted while knowing they were ineligible (i.e., fraudulently). Even von Spakovsky’s skewed evidence is only significant if one makes these unsupported assumptions.


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Stevepol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-21-08 04:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. If I'm an illegal alien, the first thing I'm going to do is blow my cover by voting?
Edited on Thu Aug-21-08 04:35 AM by Stevepol
Are you kidding me?

This is the kind of reasoning that prompted Obama to say that "It's almost like these people take pride in being ignorant."

Meanwhile, probably hundreds of thousands of voters are disenfranchised by voting machine irregularities (a charitable way to put it).

A perfect example of straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
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Anexio Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-23-08 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for your post.
I'm very new in this forum, in fact this is my first post here. Be gentle on me, I have a lot to learn.

I read that report and I think I need to read it a few more times for it to sink in but my first impression was that it had a considerable amount of subjective information in it. Some of the statistics were old, (2005), and it failed to take into consideration some sociological issues as well. For example, when asked during jury selection are you and illegal? If you were an illegal, why in the world would you answer in the affirmative? Perhaps I read it incorrectly, thats why I need to read it again.

More to the point, I have no idea why voting reform is such a partition issue. There seems to be, on both sides of the political spectrum a distrust in our voting system. Shouldn't this be the one thing that us Democrats and the Republicans can agree on, fair and accurate voting results?

Lastly, I live in the great State of Florida and I can tell you, firsthand that snowbirds are voting twice. They vote once here in November and then again via absentee in their home state, i.e. New York, Massachusetts. Unfortunately, the ACLU has blocked New York State and Florida from comparing voting records. What are your thoughts on that?

This forum is going to be interesting.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-25-08 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Deja DU> There is a literal ton of info in the archive's bytes.
Search is your friend!

Deja DU: Ohio, the DOJ scandal and "Thor" - the god of voter suppression
June 22-07 - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1159656

Bob Fitrakis has assembled considerable information about a central player in the Republican election irregularities pantheon.

---------------------------------------------------------------
Ohio, the DOJ scandal and "Thor" - the god of voter suppression
Bob Fitrakis - June 18, 2007 - http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2007/1555

The current scandal involving the firing of U.S. attorneys cannot be separated from the Bush administration's scheme to suppress black, poor and working class voters. In order to divert attention from its voter suppression tactics that won Bush the White House in 2000 and 2004, the Bush administration created the myth of "voter fraud." Using fake "voting rights" organizations, obscure groups to finance civil suits and pressure on the U.S. Department of Justice to bring criminal charges against voter registration organizations, Karl Rove and his political operatives like Mark F. "Thor" Hearne have succeeded in undermining the United States' democracy.

"Hearne was one of the most important Bush operatives that almost nobody in America has ever heard of. ....." Brad Friedman, Editor of Bradblog, told the Free Press. Bradblog was the first to reveal Hearne's masquerade as a voting rights advocate.

-----------------------------------------------
Mark F. "Thor" Hearne & election fraud timeline ......

....
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