Re: Olbermann's new blog and today's video from Kerry

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6210240/

It was referred to in another thread, but I would like to point something out and I don't want it to get lost in an existing thread.

Does anyone else find it odd that he only sent this video by email, and not right to the tv/news media, etc? Aside from his references to the votes still being counted and "whatever the outcome will be" - the mere fact in itself that he is reaching out to us online means he knows EXACTLY what we are doing and exactly what is going on.

All I ask is for the dissenters to see that this 'covertness' is necessary if we want anything accomplished, and you have to see now that Kerry knows this.

And I know most people are gonna miss it

They are close to the smoking gun, how close I don't know, they are close

And I hope they find somethignthey can take to the judge....

...because I still think Kerry would make a FAR FAR FAR better President than Bush, and I can't bear another four years of despair and anger and embarassment.

I no longer have any trust in the system, NONE whatsoever...

But that is another matter altogether.

Something big is going to happen very soon.

John Kerry is trying to tell us, that he's well aware of what's going on, and that he hears, and reads us; received our emails with concern, and is trying to fly under the radar to tell us!

This is GREAT news! It's made my weekend, I can tell ya!

Par--taaay! :party: :toast: :kick:

This is the beginning of a second term effort to hold the Bush administration accountable and to stand up and fight for our principles and our values. They want you to disappear; they are counting on that. I'm confident you will prove them wrong, and you will rewrite history again.

Here is what I want you to know. I understand the strength, commitment, and passion that are at the core of what we built together -- and I am determined to make our collective energy and organization a force to be reckoned with in the weeks and months ahead.

"They want you to disappear; they are counting on that. I'm confident you will prove them wrong, and you will rewrite history again."
I think he's telling us not give up- he knows some people are starting to give up hope - but he can't tell us directly!!
This has been the best news yet. Thank God I was starting to get weary.
Soon we'll be singing "HI HO THE CHIMP IS GONE, THE CHIMP IS GONE, THE CHIMP IS GONE!!!"

If it wasn't, your point is pretty compelling.

Keith remarked on it, too. Interesting, isn't it?

...if they were the reading type. ;)

I was just told in another thread that I can't read. Don't ask me how I know that, though. Hey! I reckon I'm psychic! :toast:

And see this little homage to your monkey work here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=64843&mesg_id=64957

:toast:

Who knew monkeying around could be such "hard work?"

Yes, it sure was "Softly softly catchee monkey" that started all this. To think that one monkey multiplied like a couple of bunnies! ;) It's an evil monkey, though, never forget that.

And jeez, that last little monkey killing the bunny...every time I feel faint about fighting the forces of neo-fascism, I'm gonna think of that poor bunny to keep my blood boiling.

:toast:

Go for it. Plus, I think you're right about the turkey dinner. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and predict some serious bunny payback soon after the pumpkin pie is served. Never misunderestimate the power of rabbit revenge! ;)

The primary topic of the mass e-mail isn’t even this election or future ones. It’s about a petition drive for universal child health care legislation Kerry intends to introduce on the first day of the new Congress. Whether the voting stuff was added as a sop to supporters loudly wondering where he— and the unspent $15,000,000— has been, is conjecture.

But the video is just plain weird. The phrasing of the start of the relevant passage—“Regardless of the outcome of this election”— is open to the same kind of parsing and confusion usually reserved for the latest release from Osama Bin Laden. Those seven words are extra-temporal; they are tense-free. In them he could be describing an election long-since decided, or one whose outcome is still in doubt.

And the timing and delivery of the message are equally confusing. No notification to the media? When much of the mechanism of political coverage is kick-started by statements like this one? And its issuance on a Friday afternoon— the moment of minimum news attention so famously titled “Take Out The Trash Day” on the NBC series “The West Wing”?— is perplexing, if not suspicious.

It has the vague feel of deliberate ambiguity, as if Kerry is saying to those who are plagued by doubts about the vote just seventeen days ago, that he agrees with them, but they shouldn’t tell anybody. It’s exactly what these confusing times do not need: more confusion.

Well put Keith.

Julie

I want to believe that Kerry is on the up and up, and I want to believe that there is a counterforce to the fascist nature of the white house right now. I want to believe we have some intelligent, calculated champion.

I shouldn't even realize that I want to believe these things.

See, there is something (potentially) ironic going on here. Suppose Kerry is investigating things. Suppose he's got his lawyer-army, a bunch of intelligent folks, doing their own number-crunching and coming up with the same problems with which we have come up. Suppose he's relying on keeping a low profile in order for this to be effective. Suppose that we're making a stink and he's less able to do what he's trying to do.

See, that's a lot of supposing. It's difficult to believe that there is some grand conspiracy in which we're all getting screwed, that John is a part of it as well, that the Skull and Bones, or their connections worldwide (which would be considerable, one must grant) are actually in control of everything. BUT it isn't SO difficult to believe that something like that could occur that we should just lie down and trust the powers that be. Because.. well.. that's what the 'christian' right has done, and you know something? Some of them are ignorant, but more of them are simply credulous, and if they knew what was being done in their name....

So speak loudly, my newfound DU friends. The very worst thing of which we can be accused is caring too much about the world around us, and that is the accusation of which I can most be proud.

FC

I gave the stuff up years ago.

Julie--the cynic

I have had my doubts about John Kerry, I plead contrition. None of us can afford what the flying monkeys did to Gore in 2000. Count the votes first, get the flying monkeys later.

Will try to spin what he is doing, and attempt to put as bad a spin on it in favor of REpublicans as possible. It is very clear since the election that the media is almost entirely controlled by interests that favor Bush and that the onbly way Kewrry can counter this is to create as large a "movement" outside of the control of the media, as possible so that the media will not be able to quash the movement, top strangle it in its crib, so to say.

Kerry must create movement based on values,different ones, but values none the less, that is as large and influential as the religious right.

I'm mad as hell about the way things went on Nov.2, but from where we are now, why throw stones - no possible short term gain. And giving Kerry the benifit of the doubt for now - no possible short term loss.

Let's halt the stoning and just watch for while.

...to completely distrust the media. And he's right. He has almost no allies in either the print media, or cable and network television. He didn't talk to them during the campaign, and if I were him, especially during this period, I'd certainly shut down too. He could've tried to reach the entire country via articles and interviews, but every time he did, Bush or Racicot or the twisted pundits on the right distorted his words all out of recognition (perfect examples: the words "nuance" and "nuisance"). Instead, he talked directly to 10,000 or 20,000 or 30,000 or 50,000 people at a time on the road... and this is almost the same thing. Bypass the media, because they are surely out to twist his words. I don't blame him.

Anyone who doesn't distrust the media by now just hasn't been paying attention.

the 2000 campaign.

Mods - Please don't delete this message. I am cross-posting because I am not yet eligible to start my own thread.

I cannot start a post yet, but everyone needs to spread it around!!! as of today, Nov 19th, 2004....The Ohio Democratic Party is giving an email to URGE Kerry to retract his concession!!!! It's that vri@dnc.org email, however, remember when Cam Kerry said it should be referred to DNC???? According to The Ohio Democratic Party vri@dnc.org IS CAMERON KERRYS EMAIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SPREAD THIS AROUND NOW!!!!! AND GIVE KERRY YOUR URGES TO WITHDRAW CONCESSION AT THAT EMAIL.


I do quote, from this website!

http://www.ohiodems.org/index.php?display=ReleaseDetails&id=197520


Vote Fraud or Mistakes – Information about fraud or mistake can be reported the Ohio Democratic Party.

You may also share any concerns about voter fraud or mistakes the Secretary of State by emailing: election@sos.state.oh.us
Contacting Kerry. If you would like to urge Kerry to withdraw his concession or share information about election fraud, Cameron Kerry, John’s brother is collecting comments. His email is: vri@dnc.org

Cam Kerry's email less than a week after the election stated the following.....

"If you have specific factual information about voting problems that could be helpful to the lawyers doing their job, please send it to vri@dnc.org rather than to me."

But Ohio Democratic Party is claiming it is his email!!!!! Get this on the main posts please, something BIG is going on!!!!!

It says to send an email if YOU would like to urge Sen. Kerry to retract his concession, not that the Ohio Democratic party is doing so. Also, about that email address, I believe it is the public email Cameron Kerry is using to collect statements. It's not his personal email address.

The necktie party theme was getting awfully tiresome.
It's a ways from over yet. :hi:

Given that Bush owns the media. It's time for us to dis-own the media completely, and I think what Kerry has done is a great start.

I think it is great, and we should forward the e-mail to everyone we know, just like Kerry asks us to do.

The direct appeal is very effective. A groundswell of citizen participation can't be ignored forever. He's trying to give our actions a focus.

"It came by way of an e-mail to supporters— but not to the media— and a video on his otherwise update-free campaign website, which maintains the frozen-in-time November 2 front page that makes it look like the political equivalent of Miss Haversham’s cobweb-strewn house in Dickens’ "Great Expectations."


What's weird is I got the e-mail right after I stated that I still liked Kerry. (the timing was just personally wierd, I thought you had to be signed up as a big supporter or something to get it until I saw it on DU first) So..I was on the campaign website e-mail list only. I hadn't checked out the site in awhile either..

and then I checked out the website, it's still the same. Exactly like Keith said, frozen in time, is this the usual for the "defeated" candidate?

I dunno, how many Presidential elections have there been so far where the candidates web page were considered a major source of information? Both Gore and Bush had web pages in 2000, but no blogs, nothing like that...

Gee I wish he'd done stuff like this earlier.

Well it's a great tatic for Dems to employ now, and I hope it gets pick up lots.

Screw the media!

is how much he emphasizes that he or any of his supporters, or anyone from the Democratic party do NOT change their positions and views, and not to give in to Bush's administration or the 'extreme right wing' pressure.

I think that's pretty bold and courageous. I love this man!

something is about to break open..

look we need to work within the system and unfortunately at this point that means the MSM. There are many individuals that are interested in this and want to uncover something if there is something to uncover. It comes down to two things fear of retribution if they are wrong and plain laziness. Everyone shares the same stories, the companies don't compete they just sit back and enjoy there respective demographics. We need to motivate them to get back to the basics and preform their job as the 4th check and balance of this country.

Maybe he was trying to take it totally out of the hands of the media and their sound bites, and convey his message to the people he realizes are really working for him. I would trust DUers over media ANY day.

edit: type corr.

Democracy Now... Olbermann... The Daily Show...

Yeah, that's about it.

NGU.

I find his comments about being "a force to be reckoned with" (specifically in the short term -- the "weeks and months ahead") and "rewriting history" interesting. That's not language I typically associate with drafting a new healthcare bill. Does John Kerry have a different sort of history rewriting in mind? It's noteworthy, too, that the webpage is exclusively about this "Protect Every Child" proposal, until one watches the video. One of the first things he talks about is the integrity (or lack thereof) of the voting system and the need for transparency and accountability. It could mean everything, or it could mean nothing, of course. I think this is perhaps the most compelling support yet for the theory that Kerry is putting his proverbial ducks in a row and discreetly signaling to supporters that he has not given up on this election, though. One can only hope :).

When he picked Edwards, it ended up being leaked, but his plan was to announce it first through email to his supporters.

He had the huge forum on his site, when Bush had none.

I think it's a sign of him trying to create the feeling of a dialogue between him and us, rather than decrees from above. It relates a bit to the "I got your back" exchanges also, a sense that we are doing this together.

The idea of having us cosponsor the bill plays into that. And no matter who wins the election, if we are able to turn the corner on election fraud, it will be as a massive team, it's not something he can do on his end, alone. I like that model of leadership.

If he doesn't think it's possible to overturn the election & doesn't intend to try, but he still wants to keep his options open for 2008-- then this is the right move. He knows all his most hard-core, hard-working supporters are still fighting for him, and wondering where he is. He'll need our support in 2008, and maybe he'll get if we think he tried & got robbed. So he very quietly signals to us that he's still fighting too, under the radar.

But any way you look at it, he's smart, he's reaching out, & he's keeping his options open.

saw this at Daily Kos. Kerry's move on proposing the health care for children is brilliant, pure Kerry, because "no matter which way it turns out" heh heh heh.

From Kos:

This is a perfect piece of wedge legislation: everybody supports it, you look like a total slime if you vote against it, and the Republicans won't want to spend the money or give Kerry the credit.

If the Republicans pass it, the kids all get health care. If the Republicans vote against it (or lose it in comittee), the attack ads write themselves.

This is an excellent move by Kerry, and I hope to see a lot more like it. Are the Democrats paying attention?

When the stuff about the voter tapes in Volusia county being found in the garbage came out, I started thinking, maybe since the Pubbies thought they got away with it - Kerry conceded, so no pesky reporters or lawyers would be poking around - they were a little more "relaxed" about cleaning up after themselves. Sort of a "lulling them into a false sense of security" kinda thing... I imagine those tapes would have been destroyed within a couple of days of they thought there might be challenges.

Just something to think about...

but also a bit worrying. Don't you think after that incident that word went out to secure the bases? I hope someone is guarding our interests here.

Right on!!

See my site for some telling stats on FLA

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO AGAIN AND TELL ME I'M NOT LOSING MY MIND? I just watched the video again, and noticed that Kerry WINKS at the very end when he says, 'and together, we are going to rewrite history".

WTF????????

Quote: "You moved voters, helped hold George Bush accountable, and countered the attacks from big news organizations such as Fox, Sinclair Broadcasting, and conservative talk radio."

Um, I wasn't part of the Media Corps, but wasn't the Sinclair thing almost purely internet grassroots? I don't recall ever getting any "official" word from the Kerry campaign re: Sinclair. I dunno, maybe I'm just being hopeful, thinking that at least that means he knows what's happening?

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE WATCH THIS VIDEO AGAIN AND TELL ME I'M NOT LOSING MY MIND? I just watched the video again, and noticed that Kerry WINKS at the very end when he says, 'and together, we are going to rewrite history".

WTF????????

Anyone else?

I don't see it either. What's the clock say when he winks? (i.e., is it at 3:32, 3:55, etc..)

and most assuredly DU. We had the media list posted for the Sinclair Broadcasting protest, and it was so well organized. I loved DU for this and so many other efforts. It really made me feel as if I was participating in a grassroots phenomenon. I am certain Kerry and Edwards are very well aware of what is happening and has happened; certainly Elizabeth Edwards is!

DUers really kick ass and take names. This is a great observation!

It's a deliberate wink, not a blink?

(How stupid am I for getting really, really excited over this?)

...the whole thing was *loaded* with coded words to US. "I'm turning to you"...? He didn't even mention the Child Protection bill until 2 minutes into the video!

He knows, he's working on it, and he's paying attention. :thumbsup:

I have been screaming over and over and over to give it time, have faith and to trust this man! DAMN THIS ISN'T THE VILLAGE IDIOT FROM TEXAS we are dealing with that DUMBA$$ belongs to the repukes only true dumba$$ idiots would want another one by there side when it comes to running a country, protecting your kids, healthcare, ect. :crazy: Kerry is a smart, intelligent, man that knows what he is doing. This man knows how to go about doing his job and come out on top with the best possible results! This man is doing his best to keep what he is doing under wraps but he has so many of his supporters screaming he's sitting on his A$$ doing nothing, not making sure all the votes when he promised to do so, he going to keep campaign funds blah blah blah. Hell he has had to do something to say hey people give it a break I'm here :hi: we have not given up and neither should you! Then he see's all his supporters fighting among each other :spank: and starting to eat there own and the man is thinking damn :wtf: is happening don't these people have more trust in me than this? So he try's to throw another hint with the private interview with his hometown news station. Then he get's on the Senate floor and again while doing his job if democrats were being the smart people they are normally and were listening he agin tried to throw a hint in there. And if anyone was listening the man almost laughed when he was talking about Bush turning a surplus into a record defict. :evilgrin: I don't know if you can go to the C-SPAN site and they have a tape of the meeting but if the do I suggest everyone go listen to it and you will see what I'm talking about here. But even after all that he see's his supporter's still fighting, trying to eat thei own, not trusting him. :grr: So out come's the video. But when he was planning the video he's thinking how can I do this without being so obvious? :think: Then he comes up with the plan to do something he has had plans to do the whole campaign and that is talk about how his first day he is going to intoduce a bill to congress that will give all kids health care from day one. And he can just throw in the petetion for cover and for that matter it will actually give him more fighting power against the repukes. :evilgrin: WAKE UP PEOPLE! This man is smarter than what your giving him credit for. Your not a attorney, elected lt. governer, elected senator for four times, and run for president and get more votes than all of the previous elected prsidents including Clinton by being a dumba$$! This man is a true fighter that loves his country and the people in it! For this I do trust and respect this man! Kerry :yourock:

and all the cute emoticons :)

I believe in him as well, and have thought all along that he knew everything that was going on.

Go donate and get a gold star and join our John Kerry Group forum!!!

#1---We need to get on the web-site and urge JK to un-concede. That way it is at the request of the people, not just "sour grapes, or whatever attack ChimpCo comes up with.

#2---We need to contact the Ohio Dems and Cobb-Badnarik to DEMAND
the accelerated count so that the votes will be recounted before Dec. 13th and the Electoral College meeting. It says on the web-site that this can be done.

I can't start one yet, but this is very important. If they don't get the vote counted, it can't be challenged, right?

Edwards has taken on big companies and won- big time. Over $175 million for his clients during his career. Always fighting for the people. JK and JE are not men that give up that easy.

for grabbing us all by the shoulders and giving us a good shaking.

But that's okay, he can play it like that.

I watched the video and it's intriguing on several levels. I especially like the fact that John Kerry is figuratively flipping off the mainstream media and taking it directly to the people. If anything, let's see if the MSM starts buzzing about this unusual move on his part. At worst, they might call him eccentric. At best, it will prove he was serious all along about health care for America's children. And notice he's not talking about "health care for all Americans." He specifically focuses on children. Eight million reasons. I think it's great.

Regardless of what you think of John Kerry, whether you feel disappointed, angry, whatever, don't hold it against the children. This just might have a fighting chance. But we'll never know unless he gets those hundreds of thousands of signatures.

I sent the link and my own message in an email to my friends.

He died his hair. It's not as grey.

HEHE

I have to say I noticed that. But he is good looking man either way.

1) WTF is really going on here?
2) Not wanting to wear a tinfoil hat, but being forced into borderline tinfoil-hattery with the rest of us and feeling kind of uncomfortable about it -- because all this shit is Just A Little Weird.

Hell, I'm full of snark, and I'm not a journalist who's trying to cover this story. This thing is weirder than a two-headed dog.

Olbermann reads Dickens? Nice allusion.... (sigh) I'm in lurve..... :loveya:

I felt the same way about it when I received it. He knows what's up.

Hang in there, folks.

i don't know why my first impulse was to unsubscribe from the list. i feel like "i'm not ready to 'talk' to him yet." like a family member i'm hacked off with.

i'll get over it with ever so little hope.

He needed message to get to US, so who cares about MSM. They would have done sound bites and thus butchered it. I was glad to be able to see the whole thing without some moron spinning it into their so-called "neutral" zone---the fair & balanced load of crock.

He is no longer saying Bush necessarily won.

If Kerry does not get into office like he should, but hopefully he will, but lets say they steal it again. How about everyone standing behind Kerry as if he were the sitting President, he would have us standing behind him and this would give hime the strength to lead in the Senate as our messager to the government. Perhaps this is what he is saying to us, that we should stay together because then we are strong and a universal force in this government, we could help him dictate to them. What do you think about it ??

but i've noticed there a lot of people who probably wouldn't vote for him again - and who are angry at him, etc.

expert on conspiracy theories: I have always believed the following:

John Kerry has gone "underground" and is watching all this unfold, if not blow by blow, then at least an hour a day. John Kerry would have to be delusional, dead or "disappeared" NOT to be informed of what is going on here. :think:

Hunter S. Thompson (also strangely MIA) is probably with him (could be that a few of our other finely flustered friends like Maher and Stewart are also attending the party) -- it is my hope that they're yucking it up like never before.

I suspect that members of the Kerry family and close circle of campaign who are not completely tied up in more pressing concerns are also utterly aware of what has been going on here in these our beloved "nefarious bowels"

This conspiracy theory has cost me my marriage because my husband thinks I'm delusional and have completely lost my mind. (yes dear I did, I dumped it on the internet, please see opednews.com)

But I told him: Honey, if it boils down to choosing between you and JFK for pres, I'm sorry, but.....whatever it takes. Because I cannot live ANYWHERE on the planet (i.e. canada is not the answer) with America's Dumbest Criminal in office. :puke:

So anyway, I continue my "ground efforts" by way of what we call "moccasin telegraph" (some folks call this word of mouth). Workin' at the wheel of the batmobile with windows open on both sides, whoofers and tweeters blasting "the boss" (yo, promised land, no retreat, no surrender, head on collision smashin in my guts man, (sever) the ties that b(l)ind: pumpup the volume, pumpup the volume! handin out flyers...) Working at the wheel eh you get your facts learned. Zoom. :bounce: Off to the next stop, starbucks, kinkos, walgreens, blockbuster, cafes, borders (is really fun). Baby i got my facts. Zoomzoomzoom. :bounce: Every last gas station, convenience store. Locations with airport are very good b/c response is immediate. Learned real good right now. :bounce: post office, library (free public net access everybody).. :evilgrin: (To the still-stressed dem wearing a button that says, "too blessed to be stressed"--"hey, if you thought there was a way to get W out of office, would you be willing to let yourself be stressed?" "Hell, yeah." well then here you go.

In a state which, despite myriad manipulations, still came out blue (c'mon, giving Illinois to Bush would have been such a blatant red flag they'd have been caught with their heads in the cookie jar much, much sooner)... so I don't have the hard convincing work to do, just the pleasure of spreading the "good news" America Awake! I just love the looks on people's faces when I tell them: hey, we can still beat this, you just have to get active NOW. Move. Get on the net. Mobilize your resources. C'mon......everybody. Everywhere. We made a promise we swore we'd always remember (I went to high school in madison WI, :smoke: and recently spoke on "comparative genocide" at UW Madison, http://madison.indymedia.org/feature/display/14847/index.php) ...the image of Kerry there before the 80,000 in "my home town, in my hoooome town, in my hometown" is etched in my mind as indelibly now as the images of the WTC falling...no more racing through the night on the net,...it's independence day.

So maybe I am delusional, driven by desperation to outrageous fantasyland. Maybe. If so, I'll check myself into the nearest loony bin--on December 12, January 20 at the latest. Promise.

i'm a believer. If nothing else, I believe in Chester Nez. I know the power of Native American prayer. Let the Badlands start treating us good--far more, can we think about starting to treat the Badlands and (by implication everything associated with them, environment, indian people, this country's honor, the honoring of OUR vets). We don't need another broken promise(d) land.

For the event that I may possibly be right: Hi guys! You owe me one. Big time.
For now, I need to chill with some Dylan :smoke: , Blood on the Tracks

Yours sincerely all,

Lily, Rosemary and the JACK OF HEARTS
:hi:

:argh:

That "You owe me big time" one should have read...."

I believe in you. I believe in God. I believe....in the Northern Lights! I believe we *can save the universe. And if we can't, what the HELL have we got left to lose?

Bloggermann doesn't do it justice.

Imagine if Gore had come out and said this kind of thing 4 years ago! I can't ever remember a candidate making a public speech like that after a campaign. It certainly wasn't broadcast on any of the networks, if they did. This felt like a presidential address. A combination of pastoral care and presidential backbone. Because Kerry could beam the message directly to us, he had full control over the message. It was an interesting message.

Fascinating video!

ain't it? Can't wait to start sending it around, but whew!..it's hard work LOL

That Kerry knows what's going on....he didn't get to be a TOP KNOTCH attorney by not going for the throat when it became necessary.

this country is currently divided not along lines of dem/rep: it's between the people who know the truth and those who believe the lies (an otherwise intelligent, liberal-minded friend of mine looked at me verrrrrrrry skeptically today and said, "well, yeah, but...you know I'm waiting to see it in the NYT or something." I just couldn't respond.

The word simply has to get OUT ON THE STREET and off these internet superhighways....

Intelligent people will figure it out when they see it. Get em in here.

It's there. WE just need to find it.

NGU.

Are you guys aware... that at the ImpeachBush.org site, they are SOLD OUT of t-shirts??!!

and I didn't even get a lousy T-shirt!

That is my impression as well.

I refuse to believe this election is over! Kerry doesn't just give up on anything. There are alot of those who want you to believe he is dead in the water, he has been since he conceded, he just rolled over and quit, and the dumbest :crazy: thing I have heard yet is he is buddies with Bush the skulls and bones $hit. That is total BS and when I here remarks such as these it just reminds me of the old saying with friends like these who needs enemies, but in this situation the proper way of saying it is with voters like these who needs repukes? :puke: The way I look at it let them scream :wow: let them blow there hot air and pi$$ and moan. Frankly who give's a $hit what the think or say! What is important here is to remember that this election is not over yet! You have to remember who Kerry is and what he is all about and what he stands for. You have to remember this man knows what he is doing and he will do everything he has to to get the job done. You have to remember this man was a attorney, Lt. Governor, and a Senator for 20 yrs and my friends you don't acheive goals like this by being a dumba$$! This man knows how to uncover fraud and have people prosecuted he proved that when he brought down BCCI! Now I will say this I am in no way saying this election will be overturned, because they have to have the proof he won first. I still believe they can come up with that proof and I won't quit believing that until the clock has run out and all is final. Next thing that is a fact regarless of the final outcome of election you can believe that all the fraud will be brought out front and center and there will be charges brought against those who they prove committed the fraud. There will also be something done about the voting process it will not be swept under the rug. This process is broke and has to be fixed and it will be. As I said before this election is not over and again if they can't get it overturned you can believe that none of us has heard the last of Kerry. This is especially true when it comes to Bush and the repugs because before all is said and done they will be wishing like hell they never heard the name Kerry. If this election is not overturned and Kerry has to continue on in the senate this by all means this doesn't mean our part is done either. We will need to continue to support Kerry and try to help him bring down Bush and all his loyalists. And the only way we can do this is to stand together and fight we cannot just sit back and start playing the blame game and eating our own. We will get no where by doing that. We will only susceed in what we set out to do by being strong, loyal, standing up and fighting for each other! So lets take all of this with stride and remember it's not over by all means!!!