IF we start our own party

Can we start our own election process as well?

Is there any reason why we cannot?

If we elect who we want, do they not then have legitimate authority to act in our behalf?

Like in Malaysia, an Asia-Pacific "true" democracy.

I think the Greens are an alternative, but not at a national level yet.

The republicans are so far over reaching right now, that if they don't start the 1,000 year reich, they're going to go the way of the whigs--with no options in between.

They disappeared because they tried their damndest not to take any position that would offend anyone on the great national crisis of their age, slavery.

The party of treason, the Democrats, survived the inevitable storm. The third party that arose because the Whigs were not functioning as a healthy opponent to the Democrats became a major party. But the Whigs, by trying to stand for nothing at all in an all or nothing age, became exactly what it was that they aspired to -- nothing.

The party today most like the Whigs are the Democrats. And I see signs that indicate that they may just follow the Whigs into nothingness. Look around you, and see the number of faithful Democrats who are starting to talk about a third party.

I know that if and when there's another presidential election, the Democrats will have to give me some very good reasons not to vote Green. I've never voted for a third party presidential candidate. But I've concluded that my vote for Kerry was a wasted vote, a vote wasted on a man and a party more concerned with their futures than with the future of democracy. I've concluded that Cobb, or Nader, or even Badnarik, each of whom stood up for America when America needed him, should have gotten my vote.

That the Dems will be financing their 2008 campaign with some of the money I gave them for the 2004 campaign will not count as a good reason for me to come back and vote for them.

According to the Constitution we can elect whomever we want, and according to the Constitution we have the right to select our representatives - which certainly precludes having our representatives selected for us because we have to wait 8 hours in line to cast our vote, or because our ballot is tossed out on a technicality, or just thrown away or lost, or not registered or not counted.

The Constitution does say when elections will be held, and how. But the Constitution is - according to the Constitution itself - our charter, as the people, and does not belong to the government. And the government belongs to us, not to the people holding office in our trust and behalf.

So, the people - sufficiently rallied and motivated - can do anything they want to do.

That may seem like a self-evident point, but I think many here are not grasping this and are waiting for "them" - the bosses - to "do" sonething for us.

why can we not start our own government, write our own constitution and refuse to abide by a government that we do not recognize?

You know I am in. It is all a matter of people saying "this far and no farther" and realizing that we are nearing the point where we have nothing to lose. Many are talking blithely about 2008 without a thought in the world as to what might be in store for us between now and then. If you think they put up barriers between the voter and the poll in this election, wait until you see the barriers between here and 2008.

Even if people think that there is no chance to overturn this stolen election - coup d'etat, really - they should know there is a value in fighting it, because we are building solidarity, developing organizational and communication skills, and increasing people's awareness. Most importantly, we are getting a head start on a struggle that is now inevitable.

We will have to fight them sometime and somewhere IMHO. I don't see them suddenly going peace-loving and humanitarian on us or abandoning their overt and express goal of ending the great American experiment in self-government. The longer we wait, the stronger they get and the more likely it is that any resistance can be nipped in the bud and that the eventual reckoning will be that much more unpleasant.

The advantage we have is their base is shrinking, which is why they have to go to these desperate measures.

Racism and homophobia don't work nearly as well with people under 30.

And we are getting browner, which makes it harder to play the race card too.

Someone put up what the map would look like if 18-29 year olds were the only voters, and there were just a handful of Bush states.

I'm not saying we can wait them out, but the more draconian they get, the more people will be on our side.

One thing the GOP did well was get out all the mealy mouthed politicians who weren't entirely on board with their agenda. When you vote for one of them now, you know what you'll get (however unpleasant it may be).

We need to get rid of any Dems that put big business ahead of regular people.

If they want to be in bed with corporate America, let them join the GOP.

We should demand that all our trade agreements have strong labor provisions, and corporations that want to sell stuff here pay MORE in taxes than working people.


One of the best ideas I saw floating around here is blind donations to candidates, so they don't know who is giving them money. It won't happen, but it's the right kind of thinking

...I guess that's what the southern states had in mind before the Civil War. And what the Freemen had in mind in, what was it, Montana? a few years back?

Mr. Show had a really priceless sketch about folks like that: "thanks for coming... get off my land..." said David Cross, sadly, as king and only resident of New Freeland or whatever he called it. He got lonely, you see.

But seriously, I'm not being sarcastic when I say it's a good idea. I'm beginning to think that the system has to be scrapped. Something really, really big, like a secession, might shake things up enough. I know right after the election, there were a lot of people, only half joking, saying that California ought to seceed, or the blue states.

But the problems with the electoral system are only indicative of deep, deep cultural problems. For any real change to occur, I'm thinking, there will *have* to be 1960's style activism, protests, riots, etc. Or a serious threat to seceed. Something way big.

Here in our nice, cozy DU home, we don't notice that many, if not most, people on the "outside" don't really give a hoot about politics and will do everything they can to avoid talking about it because they realize most politicians are SOBs. People don't really keep up with the news, except for how their favorite sports teams are doing. The public has a short attention span. The media has a short attention span. The media is corrupt. The government is corrupt. Everything's owned by the fat cats, etc. Racism is still rampant. Sexism is still rampant.

Damn, now I'm really depressed. Geez, not even the 60s really changed that much. Just the window dressing.

THERE'S NO HOOOOOPE!

:hi: