No Recount of Punch Cards in OHIO - CSPAN NOW!!! - BAD

According to Mark Nayik of Cleveland Plain Dealer, paraphrased, "People think they will reassess the punchcards in Ohio, are wrong. They will not be counted, like in Florida."

Recounting of these was what WE WERE COUNTING ON ?????

:wtf: Thats how they win elections.....the cheat and steal. we might have to try that in 08...only thing is we would get caught at it

decided to do the recount of punch cards it was a newspaper consortium. Also, that people puched the hell of the cards this year and thus, very few spoiled. (uncounted, in our language). (Paraphrasing here)

How can you call it a recount if the "spoiled" ballots--those which did not record a vote when run through the machine--are not counted!

Look at how Fla in 2000 turned out.....they counted spoiled ballots for two weeks in Broward, Miami/Dade and Palm beach and netted a grand total of 280 votes. There is not a gold mine of Kerry votes in those spoiled ballots if history is any guide

I don't know....i am make an educated guess based on past experience

Though that is what we are hoping for, it is less important than that all the votes be counted.

strange

The basis for the supreame court ruling was that the different election boards in different counties were using different criteria to assess the spoiled ballots.

And Gore only needed to net another 600 ballots, which he have done easily.

it's time for lawyers. Sounds like another Blackwell decision to me.

ask the obvious question...Why, how, when who....

.......and the government has no say in it. Once "we the people" allow "the government" to stipulate how elections are conducted and counted, we no longer can claim that we live in a democracy.

"We, The People" need to remind the government that the Constitution provides us with remedies should the government forget that fact. :)

The usurpers have stolen from us and is now our job to get more nasty than they ever thought to take it back. These S.O.B.'s will never give it back willingly, so prepare for the ugly because we are going to have to go in and take it. Freedom was never given, it was always earned

ON edit: If they don't let recount go, mark me in as challenging this governments legitimacy

They try to act like everything went fairly and smoothly; it didn't, the people left in line in those precincts that didn't have enough voting booths had to cast provisional ballots. To quote Palast: They put some voters on the back of the bus
( http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=395&row=0 )

and here is the law on provisional ballots and late voting (through no fault of their own.)


SEC. 302./a> <<NOTE: 42 USC 15482.>> PROVISIONAL VOTING AND VOTING INFORMATION REQUIREMENTS.

Voters Who Vote After the Polls Close.--Any individual who votes in an election for Federal office as a result of a Federal or State court order or any other order extending the time established for closing the polls by a State law in effect 10 days before the date of that election may only vote in that election by casting a provisional ballot under subsection (a). Any such ballot cast under the preceding sentence shall be separated and held apart from other provisional ballots cast by those not affected by the order. Effective Date for Provisional Voting and Voting Information

we need to find out if really true

When the newspaper consortium counted the votes, they found that Gore would have won if the overvotes were counted on the cards. People misunderstood the "write-in" section, which meant that they would mark the ballot beside Gore's name and then write it in at the bottom. The other thing that would happen is that stray marks might be made on the ballot, thus making it an overvote as far as the machine was concerned. Other people used pen instead of a #2 pencil to clearly cast their vote.

Ironically, not only did the Supreme Court belittle overvotes when deliberating their decision but the Gore camp assumed all overvotes were lost and did not push the overvotes either. The assumption was made on all sides that a machine recorded "overvote" was automatically a vote for two or more candidates.

One two or three corners of the chad hanging. In Florida each county had it's own standard to determine an actual vote. Ohio has a uniform state standard: 0 or 1 corners attached, vote counts. 2 or 3, no dice.

the Supreme Courts Decision in Bush vs. Gore into play that the standards for ballots and counting must be the same in every county. If some counties had "punch cards" and others had opti-scan, or levers or whatever, that a recount must treat all the methods of voting as the same, and so "punch card" votes would be counted along with the paper ballots that went through the opti-scans. Maybe that reporter doesn't know what he's talking about or assumes the Circuit Court will shoot down the Dem appeal since the Bushies own all the judges there. :shrug:

Although, Watson, the Judge that's handling it, did a favorable ruling for the Dems by allowing the media to observe the proceedings. Of course Warren County claimed it was under a Terror Attack Alert, and got around the judges ruling. But, let's hope Watson is a fair judge.

They said that the decision was to be valid in that one instance only, that it was not to set any precedent.

That was one of the things that Bugliosi pointed out in "None Dare Call it Treason" and some talking heads at the time.

The decision was a one time only deal and not to be thought of as a precident, plus I'm pretty sure that none of them signed it (didn't want to leave any evidence at the scene of the crime for history to record.)

under the precedent you are citing, doesn't it? It seems seems it should be obvious to me, but then I'm not an attorney. If the Supremes said that ALL votes must be recounted in a recount, but the machines can only produce a tape that purports to represent the vote, but in any meaningful way cannot PROVE to be accurate, isn't that what's needed for action? In some sort of financial audit, if an accountant produced only a paper printout, but not one bit of documentation for evidence, that would be considered laughable. And, even if the Supreme's decisionin 2000 wasn't intended to be a precedent, if this issue got to them in this election they could hardly make an entirely different decision, could they? They would need to be consistent, wouldn't they?

What are they waiting for? I'm getting really nervous about all this. The lack of a paper trail is, imho, one of the biggest threats to our democracy that has happened, ever. We MUST do something about it NOW. I've read that those counties that have the lack of a papertrail are sort of being overlooked by everyone because it is assumed that there is nothing that can be done, as they can't really be recounted. But, imho, this is where the entire e-voting issue is the MOST vulnerable, because it can't stand up to what it seems to me would be normal judicial scrutiny.

Please respond, any DU attorneys or legally minded people. I'm getting scared that nothing will be done about this.

I know Bev suggested this, but I don't think intentionally getting someones name wrong helps our credibility. Just like the people who write "M$" (or, for that matter, "Shrub") it mostly looks childish.

If we think Ken Blackwell may have commited illegal acts to help G. W. Bush get elected, we should say so. Accusing a non-existent "Katherine Blackwell" of helping "Shrub" just makes the point harder for newcommers to grasp (and google).

-- MarkusQ

Ok that's certainly one way to look at it. but i think most peeps on here know the secret code and if newcomers google they will come up with links that make it clear who it is and why the name is being used- I think the benifit of making the link of KKKen to FL2000, outweight newbie confusion, or crediblility by outsiders.

What're the chances that unions can be mobilized fast to threaten some action if the 'recount' is not a recount of ballots? Other ideas for pressure?

the law without pressure from us, from Taft, from monied interests in Ohio, etc? He keeps toying with rules, but has backed down in the face of opposition. He's not exactly KAtherine Harris.

They can always get media coverage -even when they don't want it, and
most of them don't give a rat's *ss if people think they're eccentric -most people do anyway. So anyone have Micheal Jackson's or anyone's email address -prefferably someone we know is a progressive etc..
I tried to post this this morning about 4am but the site was down
-Does anyone know what happened? I got really worried.

Remember how she took on the beef industry? She her reputation is so solid and so many people listen to her. What do you guys think??

I am asking because since this started I've been wanting to be more helpful and send out a lot of emails but I don't know exactly how to put it all together / how to compose a convincing email that will get people to this site and others like it.
Can I see what you sent?