Besides statistics, graphs, gut feelings and the smell of rats.

Could someone please post a link to the proof of fraud in Ohio?

I keep scanning this board for it, but all I can find is statistics.

The statistics are compelling. They show a sudden shift in Ohio to the right. But Im sorry, thats not proof to me. Thats just statistics.

It just shows that alot of people can be stupid.

Im looking for the mole. The guy who says "I DID IT", or "I saw someone do it", or the video or someone faking the votes, or a box of votes dumped in the river etc.

Bush is incredibly stupid. Given how massive and widespread, and how many people would have to be involved, surely he made a mistake somewhere.

I just cannot believe that the only perfect crime in history has been perpetuated by a man with an IQ of 90.

when OH certifies their election and if the ballots ever actually get recounted. I have my doubts that they will be able to get the same numbers twice.

Until then, without access to the machines or the programs, it will be very difficult to prove anything.

And statistical proof is valid. It points to the location of the smoking gun, IMO.

But statistical proof is an oxymoron.

Its fine to have pointers to the smoking gun.

But what is need is THE smoking gun, and the men who handled it.

The statistics and tens of thousands of reports of voting problems give us good reason to investigate, and that's all we're asking for here, an investigation into the vote. You can't find definitive "proof" if no one's looking for it. The stats compel the need to do that looking and tell us where to look.

The other thing is that although there may not be a smoking gun for tampering quite yet, we certainly do have proof of voter suppression. LOTS OF IT. Voter registrations being thrown out. Caging lists being developed and used for challenges at the pools. Inequities in the number of voting machines for democratic vs. republican leaning precincts. Republicans sending out flyers saying that the location and/or date of the voting has changed.

I could go on and on. And this IS a form of fraud and it is illegal. It is, in fact, in violation of our constitution.

GEEZ! Everybody wants "proof" instantaneously. Facts must be gathered, investigated and analyzed.

If someone is suspected of murder, they don't arrest him and hang him the same day.

as it would in a normal capital crime investigation.

The election gets certified in a few weeks (or less), and Bush is inaugurated in Jan.

We damn well better find proof quickly otherwise its game over.

in a fury of hurry! I am just fed up with people who want 'proof' yesterday. Just because we don't yet have all of the evidence does not mean that fraud is disproven. I get irritated with those who appear to 'dis' the idea because they say they haven't seen irrefutable "proof" yet.

A question to all the naysayers:

If you are walkin down the street and I am atop a building, and decide to take a big steamy load of dogshit and whop it on your Fucking Head, Would You need to first know Who I am, Where I was, What My Background Is, Where I got the Shit from, Etc.. Before you wanted an investigation into why someone threw shit on your head? Would you need all that before you even could be sure you in fact did have a load of dogshit on your head? Of course not, you could smell the stench. You might not know where it came from, from who or why, but you still have no doubt someone just shit on your head.

Well that is the boat we are in. We all smell the shit and it stinks. We have all had a pile of shit thrown on our heads. That's enough to move forward with. We will find out the rest of the details as we go......

That is the best anaology I've heard, thanks.

Deliberately putting not enough voting booths in known minority Democratic areas. Five and six hour waits to vote. They did it the old-school way, baby: brute force disenfranchisement. Think about how many people were forced to just walk away because they couldn't wait.

IMHO the only way to get a fair election out of Ohio would be to re-vote the damn thing.