I HAVE THE SMOKING GUN!

I found it in my dumpster yesterday - send me money right away if you want me to eventually make a movie about it and then tell you what it is -- tho it may turn out to be nothing, at least you will have spent enough money (keep it coming) to make yourself feel empowered for a little bit.. hope sells..

I'm a little afraid I might become a laughing stock and lightning rod for the right wing - just what they need to call me "fringe" or a "dumbster diver"..

then all of the GOOD work I have done will be for nothing, and that's a shame..

It's a good thing I have all the friends I have collected along the way, by being fair and honest with them.. they're right there behind me..

Uh..uh.. where'd they go?

See ya in the morning.

:silly:

I must be channeling elvis again, thanks..

Will really be a Steaming Pile.

then the media would pick it up and that would be better than any advertisement. The media worked wonders for Fahrenheit 9/11. Of course they (the media) just won't be willing to broadcast the movie.

Do you honestly think that they would pick the story up if their life depended on it and it's kind of ironic because it just might :think:

Something that makes for a great story may not be so good for right wing media to get a hold of aka a PUBLIC FIGURE dumpster diving.

Is that what you want?

I want facts before my eyes.

They tear Democrats apart with a hint of a something that could either be the truth or fiction. When it comes to right wingers we need hard core evidence so that they we can back up the proof that we have so that they can't debunk the story that they have in front of them.

Look at the way that the presstitutes tore Condit apart and destroyed his career. I have no feelings toward Condit but what they did was unfair.

DeLay will get no negative press because he is a republican even if there is evidence to back up the claims that are being filed against him.

...can the moderators do something to stop threads like this? I mean, I know people should be able to disagree, but not with misleading subject lines that are just such a heartbreak. It undermines the usefulness of the whole forum for someone who's interested in it as a source of serious ideas and news.

There are only so many hours in the day I can spend reading junk online and stuff like this is like a thief stealing your time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html#civility
Do not start a new discussion thread with the purpose of "calling out" another member or picking a fight with another member.

People are out there working hard to get to the the truth of the matter.

And I'd rather thank them!

I think there are a WHOLE LOT of people HERE to thank, Heddafoil, Idabriggs, Skinner, EarlG, etc..

Thank the whole DU for existing so that information gets out.

Make sure you support the DU with contributions as well, put you're money where you KNOW it's going to get good results and make a Real Difference.

That's all I've been doing for the past year. Researching electronic voting. We've talked with everyone about it from Janeane Garofalo to Greg Palast to Larry Flynt - but we forgot to check the garbage can.

And if the mods think so then they should kill this thread and I will apologise to the DU masters.

And only to the DU masters (and you if you want it).

But then why is the thread where someone threatens to SUE the DU and others for honest mistakes still allowed?

Have you read it? It's frightening.

I don't want the DU to be taken to court. And I also want people held responsible for their words here. If I am held to the standards then so should others who have attacked members.

I hope no one is thinking that I'm bagging on any DU researchers or Idabriggs or heddafoil because I have nothing but respect for them.

I suppose I should have indicated that this is sarcasm which I believe is alive and well on this site, and thankfully so...

would be interested in seeing it too if he hasn't already.

"But then why is the thread where someone threatens to SUE the DU and others for honest mistakes still allowed?"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=3300#3470

Make up your own mind, but it sure looks like threats to me..

simply trying to help :eyes:

She could have asked nicely by PM or e-mail, but instead she's publicly threatening lawsuits. That's how it reads to me too.

I had alerted on this thread of yours earlier tonight, with the quote from the rules I posted above in this thread. After reading that link and all the latest drama I'd like to apologize to you for that, and to any mods reading I'd like to retract my alert, fwiw.

Let me understand this:

Bev Harris has been posting on the DU day in and day out, soliciting donations for her Blackboxvoting.org, and then TURNS AROUND AND THREATENS TO SUE THE DU?

AND she's doing this WHILE the DU itself is trying to RAISE FUNDS to keep ITS OWN OPERATIONS GOING?

This is like inviting someone over to your house and then they opportunistically fall and sue you to take your house away from you. DU really should not let people like this in their "house" anymore - you don't invite those back who threaten you legally.

I seriously doubt Bev Harris has any claim against other folks using "BBV" or "Black Box Voting" or "Clean Up Crew" - I was unable to find any trademarks registered to her, and trademark notices are not posted at her site. The existence of Blackboxvoting.com seems to indicate she has no clear claim to the name considering they're talking about identical subjects and are both websites.

I just wonder how many folks here donated to her organization thinking they were funding the recount or legal matters pertaining to vote fraud? As far as I can tell, it appears to me the donations are going to Bev and her team for travel, lodging, food, and other expenses (which may even include salaries) so she can be filmed by her crew who is making a movie about what she's doing. And then she'll put that movie up for sale, and ask you to buy it. She's even been on the boards asking for people here to send money to her film crew for their expenses! Now if MoveOn.org decides to sell 100,000+ copies of that movie to their base, do you think all of you who donated to her cause will receive royalties?

Misleading intentions can easily end up in legal problems - and Bev should know that as I don't think she would intentionally mislead people here, right? I'm not even going to mention the "F" word.

I'd invite Bev to open her 501c3 books to let everyone know where their money is going...

I know this all sounds horrible and brutal and all, and I do think Bev Harris has gotten some great promotion in regards to the problems with electronic voting machines. But man, what is she doing, biting the hand that feeds her?

But Bev is right in a way on this one. She has to defend the use of the name or she could lose what she has worked for. This is legally accurate and I understand her post in that other thread completely. I don't think she is meaning to bite the hand that feeds her, but she must defend rigorously for the reasons she mentioned.

I will add though that maybe she could've come across a little more lovingly even though she needed to make sure her point was made firmly.

Doesn't make sense.

Bev threatens to sue the DU essentially with money she raised by soliciting donations on the DU? And this is cool by you?

I haven't seen the "legally accurate" part you're talking about. Perhaps you'd care to explain?

1. From what I can tell, she has no trademarks on the items she's threatening to sue over. You have better documentation?

2. Copyright issues: she has no clear cut use of the name as there are other organizations using the term "Black Box Voting," i.e., the cat is already out of the bag and unlikely she could defend the name. And "Clean Up Crew" may also be too vague to be defensible. If anything, David Allen who owns Blackboxvoting.com could potentially have a lawsuit against Blackboxvoting.org since the .com site predates the .org site depending on what his agreement was/is with Bev Harris.

When she gets her Votergate film done, then that will be something there will be a copyrightable: or will it? Another Votergate movie exists by a different group of people which uses much of the same footage as Bev's Votergate film. Who owns the copyrights there? Or is this footage public domain?

And as far as losing what she's worked for, there are a lot of folks who have helped her along the way who have lost what they worked for - to the benefit of Bev Harris.

And hey! let's watch and pay for Bev to sue DU and destroy this resource we all enjoy reading, posting on... there is NO EXCUSE for that kind of behavior here and it shouldn't be tolerated by the moderators. Period.

and I've depended on your great links to video and your posts to enlighten the DU and myself..

no apology needed here :)

I wonder how many people know that the DU has been threatened, and by someone who is trolling for funds during a DU fundraiser!

of course if someone is able to get Kerry in office, all will be forgiven..

thanks Wonk -- where's that cat sig, I always thought it was the coolest..

Why the post now?

Donate to the DU - Get a star and then you can look at all the old posts you want.. some of them are very informative..

You can see that someone brings FBI Agent Mike in here (Hi Agent Mike) with their actions. (I assume that this place is monitored anyway.)

You can see that Agent Mike has the capability to Monitor what happens here and or email people himself.

You can see that someone has dug through trash before on film.

You can see that someone let Election Officials know they were coming with FOIAs or phone calls.

You can practically see the Election Officials generating and dumping whatever they want in trash bags for someone else to find.

I hope you can see the potential for that information to have no credibility.

Then perhaps you will see the media call someone (who appears to be trying their best to get the goods on fraudulent elections) a "dumpster diver" and give them the Howard Dean treatment.

Of course then the whole e vote investigation done by so many becomes "fringe" and "wacko" and we're all screwed.

That means me and you.

Or you don't see that. I don't doubt the power of these bastards to cheat, trick and distort.

They set up drug dealers every day, you don't think they can "sting" a citizen?

Donate to the DU, they're a sure bet.

Stars are optional. I'm very aware of Bev's "issues" and have pitched in at least 2 cents werth on several occasions; search my user name. My query was regarding the motivation for this current discussion. Sorry for the confusion. The "sting" angle?

is that someone could easily be set up. Once you have their MO down it's simple.

You could say that the media "stung" Dean, following him around til they got the soundbite they wanted and then slaying him with it - I for one don't want many researchers painted with one brush.

sorry, if I'd known you had a star I wouldn't have asked you to donate, however, anyone without one be sure and help out the DU, as it's an important resource..

and don't threaten to sue them :)

they are cool people and have saved a lot of hearts and souls here, more than can be counted.

this is like the city of refuge in Hawaii - if you could get to it, you were "safe" from the authorities :)

was yesterday.

not everybody reads the boards every day or reads or sees every post.

I'm truly taken aback by Bev Harris going after the DU after soliciting so many donations here - especially during a time where the DU itself was trying to raise money.

It's called sh*tting where you sleep.

may be discussing a Public Figure. And since I've created a parody you could even say that I am a Public Figure, since I've been on MSNBC twice, O'Rielly once, Lou Dobbs, etc..

People here really loved that, they want someone to fight for their rights. I'm always happy to do that, I worry about the passion overtaking reason here sometimes.

I also worry about the DU being flattened with a lawsuit when they have done nothing but assisted so many, like myself to get to a position like a Public Figure.

nt

the money.

It was the Cookie Monster who stole the votes. Or is that Grover, who lives in the garbage can? Hm, well, whatever. It could have been either one. They're probably in it together.
Now it all comes together- In that video they did, just before the votes were counted. You know, the one where the Cookie Monster's right arm went up and then quickly back into the garbage can. That was the sign. Right there, was the hidden message for the fraud to begin. And of course, where better to hide the evidence than a garbage can. I mean, who would think of looking in the garbage? That's how they're playing this game. They're stealing us blind, right in front of our eyes. I'm back to the kitchen, now. Got a batch of chocolate chips going in the oven. We'll have to beat them at their own game.

What is God_Bush_nCheny's roll in all of this.

I remember a thread that had him receiving a call from Delmart Vreeland and a possible nuke attack!?!?!?!

G_b-_Nc is with Bev in florida I think, so I'm assuming he's part of the bbv team. What is he doing talking to someone who claims prior knowledge of 9/11 and actually did pass a letter to a Toronto jail guard (where i live) prior to 9/11 saying "let one through, stop the rest".

It's all way to bizarre.

At what point should the cops or FBI be involved investigating all of this proof BlackBoxVoting.org has uncovered.

I don't doubt the existence of evidence but I do think that we need to seriously reconsider how we tackle this issue if no credible government agencies are willing to launch investigations.

And DumsterDiversforDemocracy probably has KKKarl laughing so hard he might choke on his turkey diner so maybe it's worth a try.

wow. that is bizarre alright..

But I do agree with all the rest of what you said.. time to call in the mounties -- I wonder if you can get into trouble for witholding information when you know there's been fraud and YOU have that information?

"And DumsterDiversforDemocracy probably has KKKarl laughing so hard he might choke on his turkey diner so maybe it's worth a try."

LOL!

If you could search the archive for the Vreeland thread about the nuke warning from gbnc and post it I'd appreciate it. Its really strange and well worth the read.

I usually stay out of these BBV discussions, but I had to laugh at symbolman's presentation of her tactics. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. It's unfortunate that people are sending her money that they could be sending to the ACLU or NAACP, or even to the DNC (another black hole, but at least it might help a few Democrats get elected), all based on some pie in the sky hope of getting the election results over-turned.

where are the courts the fbi..??????????
Where is 60 minutes?????????????
This would be of watergate proportions...show us some pictures
Here is what she said she found..

"We collected various poll tapes and other information and asked if they could copy it for us, for our public records request. "You won't be going anywhere," said Pete. "The deputy is on his way." "
snip
"We began to compare the special printouts given to us with the signed polling tapes from election night. Lo and behold, some were missing. We also found some that didn't match. In fact, in one location, precinct 215, an African-American precinct, the votes were off by hundreds, in favor of George W. Bush and other Republicans."
snip
"So, we compared these with the Nov. 2 signed ones and the "special' ones from Nov. 15 given to us, unsigned, and we found several of the MISSING poll tapes. There they were: In the garbage."So, Kathleen went to the car and got the polling place tapes we had pulled from the warehouse garbage. My my my. There were not only discrepancies, but a polling place tape that was signed by six officials."

This was a bit disturbing, since the employees there told us that bag was destined for the shredder.
#################################################################
* United States Code
o TITLE 42 - THE PUBLIC HEALTH AND WELFARE
+ CHAPTER 20 - ELECTIVE FRANCHISE
# SUBCHAPTER II - FEDERAL ELECTION RECORDS
Section 1974. Retention and preservation of records and papers by officers of elections; deposit with custodian; penalty for violation

Every officer of election shall retain and preserve, for a period of twenty-two months from the date of any general, special, or primary election of which candidates for the office of President, Vice President, presidential elector, Member of the Senate, Member of the House of Representatives, or Resident Commissioner from the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico are voted for, all records and papers which come into his possession relating to any application, registration, payment of poll tax, or other act requisite to voting in such election, except that, when required by law, such records and papers may be delivered to another officer of election and except that, if a State or the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico designates a custodian to retain and preserve these records and papers at a specified place, then such records and papers may be deposited with such custodian, and the duty to retain and preserve any record or paper so deposited shall devolve upon such custodian. Any officer of election or custodian who willfully fails to comply with this section shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
Findlaw

Section 1974a. Theft, destruction, concealment, mutilation, or alteration of records or papers; penalties

Any person, whether or not an officer of election or custodian,
who willfully steals, destroys, conceals, mutilates, or alters any
record or paper required by section 1974 of this title to be
retained and preserved shall be fined not more than $1,000 or
imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/casecode/uscodes/42/chapters/20/subchapters/ii/toc.html
edited for link

Can someone tell us if Volusia County in still in "real estate attorney lockdown?"

And just what the hell IS lockdown, anyway?

And wait, I'm confused.....didn't Bev say she was heading to another county on Thom Hartmann? So who's keeping Volusia County on lockdown? Is the real estate attorney keeping the locks locked?

As she told me on her cell phone while driving toward their next destination, "We just put Volusia County and their lawyers on notice that they need to continue to keep a number of documents under seal, including all of the memory cards to the ballot boxes, and all of the signed poll tapes."
http://www.opednews.com/hartmann_111904_in_the_act.htm

For years it was dominated by one Ramsey Clark and it's merry band - and the jokes wrote themselves. However , where more and more people got involved in the movement, more credible groups took over - Unitedfor peace and justice - and the movement gained legitimacy.
I am encouraged by the Moveon, PFAW, Green Party involvement ij the voter fraud fact findings.
It's heartbreaking to have to deal with so many strikes against our credibility - especially when some of them are self-inflicted.
But we need to keep the drumbeat in the issue itself going, until, like the anti-war movement, it attracts honest and competent people. I submit we are way on our way in that respect - thanks to the work of many here.

DU rules prohibit calling out other DU members.


DU Moderator