The danger of the Ukraine fiasco

This is getting alot of coverage everywhere in MSM. This poses a danger to our effort to get the fraud out in front of people. If this is true, it would be a brilliant Rove-ian tactic.

Ok, you know US election fraud story is going to break. Percerption is the key, closely followed by the raw amount of air time. If it breaks, as it looks like it will very soon, with CNN leaking bit by bit, the major issue will be how much coverage it recieves. If it is just a glossing over, in the simple minds of day to day Muricans, it may fudge together with Ukraine! Imagine the RW like Limbaugh when confronted with these issues:

RL: Psshaw! Where do you think we live, Ukraine?? Har de har har. Next caller


If the coverage doesn't just shout out of the TV, YOU HAVE BEEN HAD, or the air time is limited to 20 secs spot for a day or two, we seriously run the risk of suffocation under all the news. Peterson, BasketBrawl, Ukraine, more Iraq city-takings... I just hope the MSM treats this story with a little respect when they finally dignify it with precious air time. And when they do, hopefully the info is stopping in between the ears of John Q. Public, and not just whistling through because its the same words they have been using for a couple days on Ukraine.

But the Ukrainian election story will be buried quickly once they do. The only reason it is getting coverage here is that it is getting MASSIVE world-wide coverage....Why?.... Beacause the opposition is heading the fight.

By the way :hi:

Most Americans didn't put it together that the economy, trade policy, foreign policy, and civil rights issues were all floundering under Bush. He still got so many votes, not counting the 10-15MILLION (EDIT HERE: FORGOT MILLION) fraudulent ones ( :) )

Seriously, many many Americans need these things spoon fed to them, and only after 3 friends insist on them trying it. I was in rural West Texas, lived all over the state, its true. What people talk about over the fence is what matters, and many won't bring this kind of thing up, ever.

Interestingly, there are more B/C stickers AFTER the election out here in CA - Cowardly F*cks. One is 6 houses away ( his house, in Los Altos, looks like a trailer park).

I have relatives (Roman Catholic family) spread out over all of the Rocky Mtn States, all of the Western states, NM, MN, WI, NC, and NY. They, and their friends/co-workers were shocked by the 'results' of this travesty. Whether rooting for D or R, they were shocked. The R's were happy, but it's interesting how many seem to be creeping into 'buyers remorse' Kinda like when you bid on e-bay for something that you have no use for, but want to out-bid.

There was no out-bidding for Kerry, there was the out-sourcing of OUR VOTES!

Take from this post what you will.

Hi littlelark,

That reference made me laugh. Talk about a LEMON! lol

Warmly,

George

We need to get out there and protest. Rather than focusing on the problem we need to arrive at a solution. And I think massive organized protests are the way to get our message across. We got their damn attention. Kinda like having a bull by the horns -- you don't wanna let go because if you do you'll get your ass killed. Works the same for this issue. If we don't want our story killed we have got to become VERY PROACTIVE, REACTIVE AND PROGRESSIVE in our message.

WE HAVE TO ORGANIZE MASSIVE PROTEST ACROSS THE NATION OR THIS WILL BE SWEPT UNDER THE CARPET!!

Early December... somewhere there. There is still a chance that our body politic will do what we pay them to do.

If they do not, then all bets are off.

doesn't cover it, people don't know it happened. Look at what happened with the women's protest last spring. If you didn't watch it on C-Span, you didn't get a sense of the size of it...same with the march at the RNC convention.

is the answer! You see the Maher one night at the end invoking the people to riot? It was insane! It was all with a 'we dont mean it, but we do, not really, but do it!' way. No sitdown or march protest gets news.

However, violence backfires, and the message is rarely heard over the tsk tsks of public audiences. What can we do to insure coverage? Naked women? Celebrities? A mile long line of asses mooning the white house?

I guess.

love it. Welcome to DU!

What the danger is:

Apathy. Same story, same lines. Democracy isn't perfect. Anomalies are to be expected. This happens all over the world.

You think what happens in backwater Ukraine can happen here? You are sooo out of the mainstream.

We are God's children, we can't have bad elections like them Ukranians.




Its just pre-emptory desensitivization (sp?) on the issue of fraud. Rove can't go after these regular joes who are investigating all of these cases. He CAN manipulate viewer perception, as he has done countless times (moral issues my ass)

That's why their FRAUDULENT election may be overturned. PS...the vast majority have no God.

Headlines are good.

in several ways. The pro-USA candidate may well be USA/CIA chosen and funded, the fraud reports carefully timed and planted in appropriate media outlets. Only the protesters are legit.

Just imagine what would have happened here if the other side had 'lost' two weeks ago. Would there have been a media blackout on the issue, would Bush have quietly conceded, would the media have been so quick to label it an internet driven conspiracy theory?

MSM response....

I mean come on, you dont think I really meant them exactly and completely, right? They are caveats, possible pit traps, obstacles in our way for the fight of public perception.

What is your problem with this? With me? Can I ask you to recuse yourself from this discussion? You are killing the topic! Read below for good post relevancy ideas.

Dude, or Dudette, your profile is empty - I see a poster stating that we should just 'give up' on the macro level, while we fight on the micro.

I mean, geez, all those people are believing in God, and they are confused... they outnumber those who believe in God and CAN THINK.

Yes, the MSM is dumbing down at an incredulous pace, but, WE Americans , at least 60% of us, can recognize it.


Bottom line - I find you initial post to be.... uh, yeah.

its obvious we are not on the same page. It's obvious you will continue to post in here drivel that I have no idea the purpose or context in which you write. The above, I have no clue what you are saying. I have no idea why you continue to inundate my topic with irrelevant material. I just wish you would stop it, though. May I ask nicely? Please, stop.

Geo hit it. Social Engineering, word association, issue desensitivation... These things are real and work against us. The timing of the coverage, the air time Ukraine is getting... Please talk about THIS and not whatever the hell you are trying to get at.

Drop whatever you all are doing, and focus on that which cannot be changed. Focus on the FACT that the MSM is playing our game for us. Focus on that which will not help us. Focus on that which makes us feel weak against a giant. Focus outside the goals.

The MSM will not do Jack-sh*t until this story is spread far and wide - then they will have no choice.

Stressing about unchangeables makes no sense.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

IMOFO

It's just that he has the whole whore press amplify every angle he wishes to press. If he gets it wrong, they bury it for him and he gets another try.

I agree about the desensitivization (too lazy to get the dictionary also) and the democracy-is-a-messy-business message.

The repukes are embracing the Ukraine story in order to spin it to their advantage. Who among our "leaders" is going to say "you said elections should be fair, remember? How about ours?" Yeah, right.

We could learn some things from him. How does he do it and how does he work his timing of sending the info out?

Why? It's not just to make money. The American public would be tuning in by the millions for stolen election stories, or the myraid other evil crimes of BushCo. MSM was bought and paid for many years ago...

I have no problem with them comparing our election fraud with the fraud in the Ukraine. It shows what the people can do when they mount a united front.

Hi Sodium,

I liked how you picked up on one of their better social engineering techniques. Playing word association games is a powerful thing these days, as most people are simply too busy, on information overload, etc. It is unfortunate, but if the public at large hears the same words together often enough they tend merge somewhat into one twisted pretzel (i.e. Iraq, 9/11, Iraq, 9/11... you get the point.)

Here is where I disagree though. The connection may mask it at most for a day or two worth of coverage. If the coverage lasts for more than a couple of days then they win, but anything past that and all of a sudden the public is all buzzing about how all these election issues are making the news. Past a day or two of minor coverage, these things will not only merge, but will likely amplify.

These techniques only seem to work when the coverage is predictable; when there is a lot to cover and you can predict where and how network resources will be used. Notice how the Bush team announced at least one cabinet change a day for several days? Did you realize that Colin Powell's move made news, and then just when the story faded Condi Rice's appointment broke? Whether purposeful or by sheer luck, these stories (combined with others like Fallujah) kept the media reporting that Bush had one which masked out any buzz we could have had on the recount and fraud investigation end of things.

It could be chance, but you see the effect. It requires good timing and control, and has just as much a chance of backfiring if something else breaks unexpectantly. The Ukraine story, when run against our own not only creates a more plausible and memorable association, but if we up the ante at the right time with a protest, a major announcement, etc., we get amplified coverage and the Ukraine story becomes an aside to a larger election story here in the U.S.

I spent a couple years editing and writing news for a CNN affiliated news radio station here in L.A. and my advice on this is to make the biggest buzz possible about this. If anything, I think they might be aiming their spin machine overseas and we just happened to catch wind of it. From a foreign perspective it looks good to have Bush publicly support fair, accurate and transperent elections. Here at home anything more than a whisper on this could damage their rhetoric game.

Just some thoughts... :)

Warmly,

George

Hi :waves: hope you caught #5 while you were typing.

I definitely noticed how they shaped the news with the cabinet, just like in 2000 with their crying about timely recounts. You make an excellent point that the parallels would stick if the timing was right. However, we need to know whose side they will naturally take. It has been 3 weeks and coverage has been superficial. If US election fraud makes no noise, then we have had our shot and failed.

You have an excellent idea there. When we see the first glimmerings of the wave, we have to jump. WE HAVE TO get in the streets, on the news with protests, so there coverage amplifies.

What I FEAR, though, is that this WILL happen in Ukraine, which makes for much better news. If there is some middling reporting of US issues, and then riots in Ukraine, they won't come back to US issues for a while, if ever. It is all up to the people to make sure the story sticks.


Just 2.125 cents

Jason

Hi Jason,

Great posts, btw, and thanks for the feedback. :)

Ukraine, even if it got to be a bigger story, is one with a very limited set of angles, fortunately. Even if it became much larger an issue, like say the huge protests last for days and get bloody, the U.S. vote would be a natural aside piece and the only compatible angle, due to inherent consistency problems with even implying that voting issues only count overseas, makes it all the more likely the coverage of our efforts at least will not be completely dismissive. We will see a lot of wiggle words in the next few days is my guess (i.e. The vote is "perceived" by Americans to be fair, instead of "Bush won"). We'll hear the rhetoric, but the Ukraine story is very likely in our favor and is something some party loyalists probably don't want us to make a big deal of.

Thanks again for the good dicussion on this thread!

Warmly,

George

If you hadn't been posting in here, I would have only had Ms. Ignored. Your posts validated what I was thinking, that I wasn't just being out there.

I do feel more assured, however, that it is only a danger, not an imminent threat. US election coverage should be huge, and not overshadowed by anything. As much news as they try to create, when it comes out it will ALL people will want to hear, IF the first things they hear are Bulletproof.

So cover away, media, and get ready to turn your lazy ass eye on our own country!

Hi Sodium Pentothal,

I enjoyed your posts and the discussion within the thread. :)

Warmly,

George

Hi again,

Here is an example of what I was saying as far as using repetition and association to sway the public psychologically. In this last post I mentioned how Iraq and 9/11 were mentioned together constantly (as well as Iraq and al queda), and here is effort that is in the works:

http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB2MXQ5MTU3BF9TAzI3MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDaW5kZXgtaWU-/s/221546

Iran and al queda now. It's the same low key, hear something about it everyday media buzz that surrounded Iraq. Even the same rhetoric!

Believe me folks. We will be attacking Iran if Mr. Bush finds a way into getting our support. Some speculate that the only thing that would do that is another "terror" attack. Scary thought.

I may be off in a world of conjecture, but one simply cannot dismiss the impact of the media on the development of our opinions (especially when all you have time to do is listen to it in the background, get half-stories from co-workers, etc).

A little off topic, but I hope it helps. :)

Warmly,

George

If you think media has been unfair in covering problems in Ukraine while ignoring ones at home, why don't you write to:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,122626,00.html

I know, I know, Fox News. But they seem to encourage people to contact them - so why don't you give them their feedback and see if you get some kind of coverage?

Here is their e-mail:
dayside@foxnews.com

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Did anyone catch the report on tonight's "news" about an AD CAMPAIGN to help parents teach their children about terror?

What is that all about? Another terra attack on the horizon? Or just more of the same-old-same-old message to instill fear?

Bush and Chuck Hagel have already talked about how the results in the Ukraine election are suspect.

This works to our benefit. They can't speak out of both sides of their mouths on the fraud issue and appear consistent.

Witness the Hall of Fame South Park episode, I'm a lil bit country, i m a lil bit rock&roll, s7e01 i believe.

We are built on saying one thing and doing another. How often has Bush said straight into the camera flat out lies? AND NO ONE CALLS HIM ON IT! NO ONE IS GOING TO CALL HIM FOR HIS DOUBLE STANDARDS! Except the great Jon Stewart, when he hits is liberal stride again.

To the death in the ring of ? (hate that stuff). Perhaps the truth will prevail, and perhaps we will sink back into the feudalistic 1800's...... The question is , will you fight? And, on which side?

I counted 4 .... correct me if need be.

What is this thread about? Some danger of some sort? And we are supposed to think or do what about this danger?

I have read through the thread 3 times now and I can't make sense of it.

The Ukrainian elections, the media, God, election irregularities, Rove, Iran, the apathy of the public...

Could someone tie these elements together into a clear and simple statement that describes for me what is being discussed here?