Technicians leak info about vote rigging

Deserves its own post (posted elsewhere by a newbie):

Since I'm a newbie, I can't start my own thread. I think that this deserves one. I hope that JK is all over this one and ready to nail these thugs for once and for all!

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


November 25, 2004—According to informed sources in Washington and Houston, the Bush campaign spent some $29 million to pay polling place operatives around the country to rig the election for Bush. The operatives were posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents but were actually technicians familiar with Diebold, Sequoia, ES&S, Triad, Unilect, and Danaher Controls voting machines. These technicians reportedly hacked the systems to skew the results in favor of Bush.



The leak about the money and the rigged election apparently came from technicians who were promised to be paid a certain amount for their work but the Bush campaign interlocutors reneged and some of the technicians are revealing the nature of the vote rigging program.



There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied. In one unprecedented action in Warren County, Ohio, election officials locked down the facility where votes were being counted. The officials said this was in response to a Level 10 high-threat terrorist warning being issued by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI for Warren County. George Bush won 72 percent of the vote in Warren County, much larger than his percentage of victory statewide.



The money to rig the election in favor of Bush reportedly came from an entity called Five Star Trust, largely based in Houston but a worldwide entity that is directly tied to the Saudi Royal Family. Five Star Trust was termed "a well-protected vehicle" that has been used to support both Bush and Osama bin Laden in the US and around the world.



Other money used to fund the election rigging was from siphoned Enron money stored away in accounts in the Cook Islands, which was once the base of one of the more questionable and Saudi-linked BCCI subsidiaries. Cook Islands banks also handled some of the weapons smuggling financing of the Iran-Contra scandal. A former Justice Department attorney who helped prosecute the BCCI case said the use of the Cook Islands by the Bush reelection team indicates they wanted the bank arrangements to be a "quick folding tent" operation that would cease to exist when the election was over. He said the Cook Islands was notorious for not requiring any documentation for such operations.


In fact, the Cook Islands has been a favorite location for various covert intelligence activities. This most recent use of the islands is a continuation of a scandal discovered in New Zealand in the early '90s called the "Winebox Affair." In 1992, a computer dealer named Paul White bought some secondhand computers and floppy disks from the Citibank office in Auckland, New Zealand, that had earlier sold them to a scrap dealer.



White later discovered the floppies (and 10 paper files) detailed a scheme to use the European Pacific Bank in the Cook Islands to bilk foreign governments and banks for a phony 15 percent tax bill assessed on various transactions by the Cook Islands government (at the time run by Tom Davis, a former US Army and NASA research scientist who was allegedly on the payroll of the CIA). European Pacific reaped millions of illegal dollars from the New Zealand Treasury and a number of Japanese banks, including Mitsubishi Bank. Paul White later died in a suspicious auto accident.

The most violent element in society is ignorance. Emma Goldman

corrected link:

<http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/112504Madsen/112504madsen.html>

Thanks.

Can anyone find any media accounts of other stories of lockdowns or FBI/Homeland Security presence in polling places, election offices, etc.?

See my thread here if you're willing to help:

RESEARCHERS -- need some googling QUICK re Vote Fraud
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2750379#2750461

http://justlooking.recursion.org/kiffmeyer.txt

Secretary of State Mary Kiffmeyer and Minnesota Division of Homeland Security & Emergency Management Director Al Bataglia today outlined the state's Election Day Preparedness Plan.


"Because the important work of elections happens in a such a decentralized way-in the thousands of polling places across the state-we believed it was especially important to enlist the Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Management, to seek and disseminate information from that agency," said Kiffmeyer.

His article is too much of a grab bag. I understand how it all fits together, but he'll be dismissed as crazy in the MSM. I know, I know, fuck the MSM, but let's face it, if we're to have any chance of this issue gaining traction with the general public, a broad-based conspiracy-laden article which reaches all the way to Arnold Schwarzenegger and beyond just isn't going to get it done.

I think his article should have been concise and to the point. He should have only dealt with the issue at hand: whether or not George W. Bush stole the election.

I know a lot of you will disagree with me. But I feel I know how the average American thinks.

I couldn't find info on lockdowns, but I did info on a recent CyberNET acquisition in Asia.

Asia Intelligence Wire reports that on November 9th, Michigan-based CyberNET Group has taken over operations of the former AyalaPort Makati Inc after buying a 60% stake from Ayala Corp, units Azalea Technology Investments Inc., and ALINET. After CyberNET acquired a controlling stake, AyalaPort was renamed CNG Phillippines Global Data Hub, Inc. Ayala Group retains a 30% stake, while 10% is owned by unnamed other partneres.

Reynaldo P. Huergas is CEO of CNG Global. The company will provide business process osutsourcing and IT outsourcing, specifically, managed services, assessment, professional and software services. CNG plans to make the Phillippines the base of its Asian operations.

I don't know if this is relevant, bur perhaps someone should check out these companies and Mr. Huergas.

Hi Liberty Belle,

Do we have any idea how this does tie in? I am just hesitant to chase down data when I don't know what in particular I'm looking for. If I new better the relevence it would be easier to figure out what needed to be found and what method to use.

Also, there are NUMEROUS cybernet threads on DU, and at least one or two have been active in the last day. Maybe we can keep up with that on the other thread. :)

Warmly,

George

who are these informed sources

we either put up or shut-up

but I think about all the times the repubs will put out a false story and it is believed to be true, and even when proven false people still believe the story. But then I think if we keep true to our values and keep true to our beliefs we will be better off, it might take a little longer, but it is better to be patient.

I don't know, anyone else wonder about this?

and feel it's unrealistic to think this writer is going to name his sources right off the bat. Wouldn't those sources be concerned for their safety?

<<Unfortunately Wayne Madsen has been getting less and less plausible. He used to be a writer I looked forward to reading.

There are no specifics in the story. Just "sources" and unspecified hacking. Until he provides specifics, treat it as speculative, probably rumor. >>

(from my mentor who has done hundreds of hours of research on 2000 and 2004 election and earlier)

In other words, Madsen needs to verify this - just like the vote.

All I can say is whoa.... No fucking way. If this was for real -- IF -- this is definitely THE SINGLE LARGEST SMOKING GUN IN HISTORY.

we need to know if this can be debunked. sounds solid to me

Right on! This needs to be pushed and investigated at the same time. Anyone send to Olbermann yet?

I HOPE THIS IS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi all,

Could this be true!! And it even has a ring of truth to it. Could it be??

Wow. Very nice post, btw. :)

Warmly,

George

:wow: :cry: :party: :toast: :bounce: :beer: :kick: :loveya: :hug: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :D :*

Keep in mind that this site is owned by Bev Conover, and she ain't like BBV's Bev - she is even more liberal than me lol, and has advertised her site as the Anti-Rush on more than one occasion. She even wanted to get rid of Kerry, as this post shows:

http://www.rense.com/general51/dump.htm

I would be skeptical at this time - but let's all hope I'm wrong and this is true.

John

He is reputable.

the credentials work in his favor, and this story seems to have that ring of truth. Not to mention that it gives us enough particulars to debunk it quick if it is a spurious. Not many writers with this fella's history would make up a story so bold and easily debunked.

I hope he has this, I hope he has this!!

- G

I just don't trust the site itself.

We really need a break here - three weeks, three days, still hardly any coverage on TV, 90% in the country probably have no idea what took place, CIA under attack now, Rather steps down, yada yada yada - we are in deep doodoo.

We really need this one.

he might be willing to check this out. If it is true and verifiable, he could go out on a pretty good high.

by speaking the truth and got blamed for the wrong reasons, attempt it again...He has nothing to lose.

Even if MSM won't investigate on there own, they should interview this writer and ask him why he is saying what he is. That is a safe enough approach even for wimpy journalists. :) -G

You are "so" right! Nothing on the networks - nada, zilch, zip, I mean Z-E-R-O coverage. Junior has back pockets covered good, that's to Big Poppa's ties!

Please, does anyone have the good link for the first post - does not work for me. Hope it's true, need a miracle.

eom

written in the past.

this will give us peons a way to check on the believeability of this story.

i'm short of time, someone else try this.

I find it hard to believe bush would shortchange such knowledgeable staffers, and that money comes from two well-known scandals {just too convenient a way to add shame} , but i still hope against hope this is true.

http://www.iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/madsen.html

Wayne Madsen
Senior Fellow, Electronic Privacy Information Center

Mr. Madsen is a Senior Fellow of the Electronic Privacy Information Center (EPIC), a non-partisan privacy public advocacy group in Washington, DC. He works with member of Congress and congressional committees on legislation and hearings of common interest.

He is also a freelance investigative journalist, and has written for The Village Voice, The Progressive, CAQ, Counterpunch, and the Intelligence Newsletter. Mr. Madsen is the author of The Handbook of Personal Data Protection (London: Macmillan, 1992), an acclaimed reference book on international data protection law.

Mr. Madsen has some twenty years experience in computer security and data privacy. As a U.S. Naval Officer he managed one of the first computer security programs for the U.S. Navy. He subsequently worked for the National Security Agency, the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation.

more coming... (edited to add missing last paragraph)

:loveya: Thank you for posting your message.

I did e-mail Palast yesterday about this. Nothing yet.

tons of links on google

this link is a short bio:

http://www.iml.dartmouth.edu/ists/madsen.html

it screams like a stuck pig.

esp in the light of what rove did to fuck over Rather.

But it would require someone with more financial background to sort it out and "follow the money". There is a Five Star Trust fraud problems associated w/ a Marion Horn on one web site and some info on fraud & offshore investments at http://www.kycnews.com that would require more diggging to check. Maybe someone else would pick that up. I'm more interested in the vote rigging part of it.

Let's not forget that the first WTC bombers were caught because they tried to return a rental vehicle to get their deposit back.

And John Kerry really should read this piece!

Madsen is so well connected, that we might think he's some kind of spook. That's just what comes with the territory: this is an ABSOLUTELY TOP SECRET ELECTION RIGGING OPERATION, so the only journalist who could possibly get to the inside sources would be one with some background connections to the military/intellligence complex, such as Wayne Madsen.

So I can't quite prove that Madsen is not a spook to this day. All I can say is the every thing he's wrote has worked out as credible. I think he's a straight-shooter as investigative journalist, even if he does have some shady sources. An investigative journalist needs to have such such sources to break a case like this.

Of course, we should check everything out about it that we can.

He is also very approachable, I have emailed back and forth with a few times. His stories are relatively on the money although once he wrote that the Pope thought Bush was the anti-Christ by "sources" inside the vatican. There was never a follow up to that, but I know this, he hates Bush with a passion.

that the odds of the Barf camp shortchanging their election hackers seem quite small...

then again...they aren't a loyal lot and reckon themselves to Gods who can screw over anyone they want, without reprisal...

I assume the hackers were promised large sums to participate in such a fraud, too, if this is genuine...perhaps plain old cheapness prompted the Barfers to stop payment...

If true... this may save us.

Let this be the 'real' that we need.

:hug:

the cute kitty in your pic. :) - G

Thanks :hug:

:kick:

:kick:

Madsen can be reached at: WMadsen777@aol.com

It came from this article, which shows he is definitely a leftie (as if we had a doubt), but he is very rooted in fact and keeps a very logical flow to his work. The guy seems way above board.

http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=99&contentid=859+&page=2

Hi all,

Should we write him and see if he'll talk to us? Should we forward a link to this thread?

I'm still a little new on ettiquette in these situations. I'm sure he'd love to know all us at DU are gobbling up his article like thanksgiving dinner came early!!

Feedback? :)

Warmly,

George

He wrote me back and gave a little more info about how he got the financial tie information but not anything more about the technical side which is what I asked for. I asked for more info and that he post here directly. We'll see what happens.

main thread here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=79932#79959

i'm pretty sure i've seen his posts in the past anyway.

off to search.

dp

edit: no luck with his username, i'm only finding his articles ref'd. Someone else may have seen him post and can back up whether he was a DU member. I am quite certain i'd seen him post, or at least someone with a username of wayne madsen...
ohwell.

good luck! :) - G

Navy? NSA? Madsen could be another Poindexter pretending to be one of us. We need to be careful.

Hi all,

While not conclusive, his other works have a certain ring to them that is unmistakable. :)

Warmly,

George

He wrote me back and gave a little more info about how he got the financial tie information but not anything more about the technical side which is what I asked for. I asked for more info and that he post here directly. We'll see what happens.

Hi Jamboi,

Thanks for taking the initiative to write Mr. Madsen. Would you be able to post excerpts from his e-mail? I'd love to hear even the smallest new detail if that is possible.

Thanks so much! :)

Warmly,

George

main thread here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=203&topic_id=79932#79959

Well, he doesn't want to post here directly and sounds skittish about having people post his private replies here for fear of giving too much away to the opposition. Suffice it to say that he is continuing to dig and that I asked for more information that would make this thing more solid. He did say he was aware of the need to get the info quickly due to the ongoing election timeline.

God, if this were verifiable....they'd be certifiable (for insanity that is)

:kick:

the board still shouldn't have gone closed session or made a decision to close down through e-mail (it violates sunshine laws) but it has troubled me for sometime that a complete Board would lie about meeting "in person" with FBI and Homeland security.

This is a parsimonious explaination.

I hope it he has it, I hope he has it...

Warmly,

George

This story makes complete sense.

That board actually believed those people were FBI and Homeland security or did they? Maybe they were in on it?

I'm so glad the REAL FBI did not lie! (not that I expected them to)

Hmm... If we can prove this is what indeed happened, we can also point to 9-11 and say "here is your smoking gun"? As this will be undisputed proof that Bush is in bed with the Saudi's. Of course, that's if this story is proven.

Please let it be true. Please let it be true.

Oh man, now I can stop crying in my drink... kidding.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!!

We all know Warren County was locked down for "Homeland Security" reasons - even if the FBI says they weren't so bad that it deserved a "lockdown."

Oh, what tangled webs we weave...

Now, we have to start vetting this. Madsen is a decent writer and a good researcher, but he's prone to the ultra-left agenda, which will get him automatically knocked down as a "conspiracy theorist."

I'm sure we've sent this to Keith Olbermann, but I want to know if the "reliable sources" will talk to anyone but Madsen.

Anyone e-mail him to find out? He surely knows the story's his, but that he's certainly not Rove-proof. Besides, the media, as a pack, is much harder to fend off than one single dog. They're also more sustainable, feeding off each other's aggressiveness and certainly less willing to run off, tail tucked between their legs at Rovian overtures of "banishment." Can't just have Faux News in the press conference - that would look just stupid.

(former pack animal here ;) )

I am certainly in now way defending the actions of Warren county BOE, but I do have a bit of information which I have never seen mentioned.

About a month before the election there was a special briefing for local police agencies, Sheriff Departments, and Base security on possible terrorist concerns in the area immediately around Wright Patterson Air Force Base, and eastern Dayton OH for the run-up to the elections. I know someone who was at the meeting, and it was an unusual affair as they had not attended a region wide meeting before. I do not know any details other than this, and do not know if it was covered by local media. I am assuming it was given by the FBI/Homeland Security, but that is speculation on my part.

This area is about 50-60 miles north of Warren County.

They may have taken this warning too far if it was given to them, or used it as an excuse to do what they did. This could also explain the extreme security around the Franklin county BOE in Columbus with the building ringed by busses and concrete barriers and Sheriff's deputies.

I think we here in Ohio were screwed in this election, but I think we need all the facts to not be blind sided too.

I live in West Chester (Butler County), just a few miles shy of Warren County, and I work 30 miles to the north in Centerville (Montgomery County), just a few miles shy of Wright Patterson -- I find it extremely odd that those closer to the base didn't get the "lock down" orders that Warren County allegedly did. Even the FBI said that they didn't specifically give those orders, or that there was a specific terror threat.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/11/10/loc_warrenvote10.html

This thread (Technicians Leak Info...) gives me hope, but why would the people getting the $$ know where it came from? (That's kinda how it reads, it doesn't say where the information is coming from). Or, if that's not what the intention was -- then where did this information come from? All the connections stated in the article don't really lead to how the $$ was going to pay for the technicians. Just that there are lots of connections that need to be considered.

seen this anywhere else.

kick

I've read a lot of this guy's stuff before. In fact, I just was reading his take on the election last night before bed. Heb writes a whole lot of stuff for Globalresearch.ca and Mike Ruppert's Fromthewilderness.com.
He's generally quite plausable, but if connected with Ruppert, who I consider well researched, but who has a long rep of being smeared as a tin foil hat type. Ruppert's thing is Peak Oil and he got his start as an LA nark who ran into CIA connections in his drug investigations.
Global Research. Canada is dedicated to exposing corporate globalism, US empire and predicted the stolen election. Bev has at least one article posted at the site.
I, for one, believe,pretty much everything they publish, but this thing could cut both ways in the PR sense.

Wiley

If this guy is legit, shouldn't he refer his sources to the MSM? I mean, even they would follow up on something like this is the author and his sources are the real thing. We can't do it, as we don't know the sources and that would make it just another crazy -- God I hate to say this -- "conspiracy theory."

Hi there,

I can tell you from experience, a major news desk will be forced to attribute the story to this writer if he holds his sources until after the story breaks main stream media.

There may be other consideration for protecting his sources as well, but he gives us plenty that is verifiable to start with, which is a very good sign. He even gives the location of his sources. The more a writer gives you in germain detail, the less likely the story is a hoax.

Also, did you check this guys credentials and other articles? Wow. See my earlier post abot what I found googling the guy.

Just my thoughts... I did find what appears to be a personal e-mail address and posted it earlier in the thread. Should we???

Warmly,

George

about his suspicions and concerns. I will let you know if he answers. God bless him if true. He could save us all.

saving lives.

George,
I checked him out and he does have excellent credentials; however, I say that we keep a very open and circumspect unified-mind in regards to all this. We're treading on very sensitive and suspect ground here and we must be sure to not jump to any conclusions.

apply for that 200,000 in reward money. Not only would he be rewarded, but the payment of that money would generate news coverage for the story. This is definitely the most damning story that any of us have heard. Let's hope more comes of it.



:kick:

Didn't see your post until now.

How can we accomplish this?

I want Madsen to get the inital credit since he broke the story, but I want the story to be considered legit and poured all over the lame-stream media.

and I bet if the story is true one is uncovered.

I have four draft agers in my family. I would send it to God if I had his/her e-mail address.

God must read DU. ;)

Either way, you know the message was received. - G

with it!!!

O8)

Believe me, God and I have been talking about this election since before it even happened!

BTW - the response I keep getting is "patience."

The story sounds great to me, I'd like to believe. Yet in the back of my mind I keep thinking Bushco HAS to be getting nervous about all the 'momentum' gaining in the recounts, and now the huge election protests in the Ukraine. They've about run out of media 'distraction' stories, and media 'lock-down' orders on OUR election story.

Let's just be sure this isn't another Nat'l. Guard 'misinformation' story. That would discredit our entire (growing) case thus far.
:think:

never hurts. :) - G

because someone got tight with the payouts?

My bet is that Rove is up to his eyeballs in this.

Rove is not one to allow anything to happen unless he can control it.

A big KICK

get fast and loose with the hired help. it would be justice. it would be the greatest. I'm retired. I would plant my butt in front of the boob tube and not move until the guilty verdict came down.

If this is true and it hits the fan it all gets blamed on him and Bush just pardon's him. Just thinking that makes my blood boil. - G

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

geo has been playing "nice" so far.

I've saved the pdf file to my hard disk and have forwarded this to my list plus asked them to forward to their list.

This author should now seek cover.

We might be hearing of lots of mysterious deaths -- so it might be a good idea to check for violent deaths of young people in all local newspapers.

We are going to have to play detective --

Is there a central information cleaning house that all deaths of young people with computer backgrounds can be forwarded to? Someone with database experience.

We really need to follow up on this a.s.a.p.

Another big kick --

IF true this is very big -- but a whole lot of details need to be verified.

Interesting that these are some of the same people that Kerry tracked in his research on the BCCI bank and the Contra Iran. Some of the very same players -- also Bath's name comes up again (as in bushie's buddy who got grounded from flying along with bushie).

Hopefully other Journalists will be working on this story --

Verification Verification Verification -- before we can accept this information as confirmed.

A couple of weeks ago when it was becoming increasingly apparent that some sort of foulness had occurred in the election, I started researching deaths or missing persons reports. I had stopped pursuing that route of research in light of the work being done by Cobb, the folks here, and by Bev Harris and her crew.

However, looking at this again it seems that we'd all better be on the lookout for missing persons and deaths -- not just mysterious or the young -- across the United States. We'd also better look into stories of people who had computer information and database systems backgrounds. Either one of these search methods could yield surprising results.

In addition to information specialist we'll also want to delve into where the Bush administration has spent their money in the past election year. Do we have any accountants who are good at following money? I recall the candidates have to do a disclosure of their campaign spending. Furthermore, considering the sloppiness of their work -- the knaves who carried out this dastardly deed -- it shouldn't be hard to follow their muddy footprints. Just my two cents...

these are some of the same players that Kerry helped expose, then they probably have a personal vendetta against Kerry. Making this not only about re-electing Bush, but getting back at Kerry as well.

the "light of day" -- won't go mainstream -- for at least 20 years.

It's nice that he's done this, but I don't think anyone in MSM will touch it with a ten-foot pole.

In the past, I have seen this gentleman "break" stories that seemed, on the face of it, to be incredible and "the one". I have seen him do that for many years. Very few of them seem to make the MSM.

Do not get emotionally invested in this story. One would hope he would collaborate with others, such as Palast, who are covering this waterfront. And then, see if he could lead some of his more solid, inside sources towards the reward monies available and the reward monies rumoured to be on the way.

I repeat: Do not get emotionally invested in this. That does not mean discard this out of hand. It makes as good a starting point as any.

I was concerned that this might be the case. Good credentials do not guarantee credibility with MSM.

But, I am hoping and praying that there is substance to this story.
:wow:

Why can't these investigative types work together and with some of the organizations within this diaspora of democracy? Right now, we have thousands of flowers blooming, but they are scattered across the universe of this matter.

The energies are scattered. That is not good.

Put down the egos, people. Something bigger than personal legends are at stake here. Lives are in the balance. Indeed, a whole world.

What about Keith? He may be willing to put him on to explain his article... that is, unless he feels that it lacks inherent credibility. I think I saw earlier in the thread that someone e-mail the show. Let's see what happens. :) - G

They will need to, if anything is to come of this. Wayne Madsen may be a credible reporter but if these technicians don't go public . . .

God, I hope there are several of them. Dozens.

were in every county clerk's office statewide in Nevada where Bush barely beat Kerry.

:wow:

and I too would glued to the court coverage.

PLEEEEEEEEASE let it be for real.

sepia_steel will watch your commercials!! So will I!! Just make it be true, make it be true!! ;) - G

I like it.

LISTEN CNN WE PROMISE TO WATCH ALL THE COMMERCIALS YOU CAN MAKE IF YOU WOULD JUST PLEASE TELL THE TRUTH.

mention the one we already know about in Warren County?
Do you know of any other lockdowns?

And what about the line that says a vehicle carried Both Bush and Osama around. It's almost like this story was written to have every dream of fraud one could wish for.

Do you really think these operatives would know the source of where the money comes from?

IMO this is worth holding onto to verify, but like someone else said don't get emotionally attached to this story.

All this stuff could just be to mislead and throw off from the real source of fraud -- remember Rove is the "king" of sneaky and smear and will want to set anybody up for a smear if you jump to conclusions. (look what happened to Rather.) That's why I think Kerry is smart, prove fraud first, then proceed and accuse.

MHO and hoping like everyone else that this story has credible info.

Hi all,

It makes sense that the lock-downs would not be widespread. I've looked closely at the Warren County story because I believe that we have enough evidence to show they violated the State's open meeting laws. I remember reading that when these alleged F.B.I. and Homeland security people mentioned the threat level to Warren County, they put them at a ten out of ten, with other areas coming in at a close eight or nine. This is compatible with this writer's assertions.

Warmly,

George

Politicians and Magicians have one thing in common, the art of misdirection. :evilgrin:

as the MSM pulls their heads out of the sand (I'll keep checking here), I'm on MSM boycott.

But they'd better cover this!!!!!!

to say sand. :) -G

They've been bought and paid for since the 1960's. See the Powell Doctrine.
And they can handle the boycott without too much pain, also. Unless it's universal.

Be careful out there.

I had the same thought, this is rathergate all over again. But here is the thing: the other side just goes with it, they keep lying and piling on lies ontop of lies, and then when it looks like a particular thread of lies has run out of steam, they just jumpshift to a new thread.

Take SBVFT: first it was the 'bogus medals' thread, then while we were busy off debunking that (and the Compliant Media was treating it as a bone fide news story) they shifted to Christmas in Cambodia, and then when it turned out that their guy told nixon he was in Cambodia too, guess what? they were ready with their 'friend of hanoi, every vet a baby-killer' assault.

So why not play the same game?

One would like it to be a real lead, but at the same time I always bear in mind that the greater the number of people needed to be involved, the less likely it is to be real. This administration is all about control. With that many loose ends, it seems implausible. Investigate it, but use veracity.

something like this. I've never understood why most people think that every link in a chain knows all the details and the overall plan and goal.
Isn't it plausible that the middlemen know nothing more than what they are supposed to do job wise. And you would be surprised how many people would do such a thing without questioning it.
It could even add to the clandestine character of the whole operation, because many people know something, but nobody knows everything (with the exception of the few pulling the strings), as such dispersing the facts and diluting the truth.

I believe it was the Nov. 2004 issue.

The part that keeps ringing in my head tells about Rove being trained by Lee Atwater.
For years Rove has trained thugs to do his dirty tricks work.

Now, he doesn't have to say a work or lift a finger. They just know, from years of practice,just what needs to be done and how to do it.

IMO,it's like the Sopranos. Leave no "paper trail."

I pray that this is the smoking gun.
Rove needs leg irons and so does Bush/Cheney and all the rest.

I did extensive research on Enron. Numerous people in various divisions said the same thing, "Well, I thought there were problems in my division, and maybe everything didn't add up. But, I always thought the REST of the company was fine."

Remember how the "cells" of bin Laden's operation have been described -- relatively independent, and don't know much about the others? Wonder if that was really more about BushCo's black operations?

if the price is right or wrong...

This is something I've been praying would happen. I just kept thinking, how can there be such a high level of suspected voter fraud and not one squeak out of all the minions who would have to be involved in pulling it off?

If you know human nature, you know how hard it is to keep high level shit from leaking out...

where have all these brave altruistic whistle-blowers been the last four years? All the evil-doers have to do is pay for a few fire-walls and those just outside won't be any the wiser. Or, if they do smell a rat- and it is probably a plague of very smelly rabid rats indeed- they might start thinking more about the steady paycheck or the safety of their families than the future of their country.

And they also might ask who will listen? Which MSM outlet would you go to?

:toast:

My brother used to work for the GAO. He's cautioned that we shouldn't count on much there. They'll most likely confirm some irregularities, but conclude not enough evidence of massive fraud--
no major boat rocking, especially with the GOP controlling Congress.

But the GAO is going to use facts and evidence for its investigations, not unverified articles with unnamed sources that wreak of tin foil hat theorists. I'm hoping this article is true also with all my might, but have to at first be skeptical. But this early in the game it was definitely wayyyyyy too premature to forward to the GAO, and could only hurt our intentions since they would probably read it and be far more wary then even we are of it. That sort of attitude they would have then could be infectious to other investigations they are looking into, rather then productive.

and so on ... THEY can find out the truth if they so choose.

It's not up to ME or YOU to determine what is credible or not, it's up to the officials who are supposed to be investigating.

The GAO and other investigators may have a lot more info. on those mentioned in the article and can piece evidence together much quicker with it in hand. If not, no harm done because this isn't an article we wrote ourselves, it's in the public domain.

Now that buzzflash has it I'm sure they'd see it anyway. Madsen is at least prolific, so its not like he's completely out of nowhere.

the GAO will try to whitewash the whole affair, just like the 9-11 Commission did.

We need to keep the pressure on them to investigate EVERYTHING that there is out there--including what Bev has, what comes of the Ohio/NH recounts, EVERYTHING.

The only reason they have stepped up this investigation is the massive input they have received from the public. Normally they respond to pressure from Congress only.

So, keep the pressure ON, but keep it on for a FULL, THOROUGH investigation into ALL the information that has been compiled--including all of the reports that have been posted in sites like votersunite.org and the hearings in Ohio.

The only public pressure they've been receiving is from us! A majority of the public still does not believe anything went wrong on NOV 2nd (thanks to no media coverage). Therefore, we hava a lot of power. We need to continue to use it until a thorough investigation is conducted!

Also, we are all forgetting that Kerry brought some of these people down with the BCCI and Iran Contra scandal. It is ironic that the most qualified politician that can look into this matter and actually do something about it is the person who was hurt the most. John Kerry. We need to make sure that he is well aware of these accusations and urge him to fight for justice. We've all got his back!

Contrary to what some have written, Madsen has been wrong quite often. The latest was his screaming headlines that there would be Plame indictments in July.

on the pre-election strike on Iran, and if I had time to Google further, I'd probably find other stories that didn't end up aligning with reality. Doesn't mean he's not right this time, but the article is pretty mushy on documentation for all of its rather detailed allegations

He notes "informed sources" are reporting the technicians are leaking, indicating he hasn't spoken to the technicians himself. He notes the money "apparently came from" something called "Five Star Trust" without providing much in the way of documentation. If someone had claimed Kerry had attempted to steal the election and claimed the money had come from DU and had provided similar documentation, we'd be all over him.

And to be honest, I would think the genuinely "informed sources" would be more than happy to go to Keith Olbermann or Seymour Hersh if they had a story with this much earth-shaking information rather than give it to Madsen. I hope the guy is on to something, but we don't do ourselves any favors by embracing stories that tell us what we hope is true when they don't give us the documentation we need to know if they're really true.

And, by the way, Madsen's credentials cut both ways. His government connections ("temporary special agent for the FBI") may give him the means to obtain information that leads him to the truth, but it also may make him a conduit for information designed specifically to mislead us into the wilderness. The burden of proof is on him, and so far, he hasn't met it.

I'm sorry, I'm new at this and don't want to dilute the thread with a side issue, but could give a little info on how Madsen was wrong about Plame? What have I missed?

It could be he was right and something intervened to stop the indictments from issuing, but it's worth keeping in mind the indictments didn't issue. Suggests one should not necessarily embrace the currrent story unless and until there's more proof than provided so far.

http://www.copvcia.com/free/ww3/062504_grand_jury.shtml

GRAND JURY WILL SOON ISSUE EXPLOSIVE INDICTMENTS
by
Wayne Madsen

June 25, 2004 1600 PDT (FTW) – Washington, DC. Well-placed U.S. government sources have revealed that the secret grand jury, led by special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald, will soon issue explosive indictments in the criminal investigation of who leaked the name of Valerie E. Plame, a CIA clandestine agent and wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joe Wilson, to members of the media. On June 24, special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald interviewed President Bush at the White House for 70 minutes, an indication that Fitzgerald's investigation is nearing completion and that indictments may be imminent. Bush was seated with his recently-hired criminal defense attorney, Jim Sharp, during the interview.

more...

I am familiar with that article, and have been waiting for those indictments to be issued. The article was written in June...so I guess its safe to assume that either it is dragging on or will never happen.

assholes controlling every facet of government these days. Of course they stopped the indictments. Look how they've stymied a true investigation of 9-11.

Quit beating on the messenger or you will fall for the corruption around you.

He has a detailed, explosive story with very little sourcing. Skepticism seems a very reasonable response.

Like you said Karmadillo, it could just be that the story was squelched.

One thing about his credentials. He has 20 years of computer security experience. That means something when investigating.

own conclusion about how eagerly we should race to embrace Madsen's latest report.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0410/S00276.htm

A BUSH PRE-ELECTION STRIKE ON IRAN:
WHITE HOUSE INSIDERS REPORT "OCTOBER SURPRISE" IMMINENT

According to White House and Washington Beltway insiders, the Bush administration, worried that it could lose the presidential election to Senator John F. Kerry, has initiated plans to launch a military strike on Iran's top Islamic leadership, its nuclear reactor at Bushehr on the Persian Gulf, and key nuclear targets throughout the country, including the main underground research site at Natanz in central Iran and another in Isfahan. Targets of the planned U.S. attack reportedly include mosques in Tehran, Qom, and Isfahan known by the U.S. to headquarter Iran's top mullahs.

The Iran attack plan was reportedly drawn up after internal polling indicated that if the Bush administration launched a so-called anti-terrorist attack on Iran some two weeks before the election, Bush would be assured of a landslide win against Kerry. Reports of a pre-emptive strike on Iran come amid concerns by a number of political observers that the Bush administration would concoct an "October Surprise" to influence the outcome of the presidential election.

According to White House sources, the USS John F. Kennedy was deployed to the Arabian Sea to coordinate the attack on Iran. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld discussed the Kennedy's role in the planned attack on Iran when he visited the ship in the Arabian Sea on October 9. Rumsfeld and defense ministers of U.S. coalition partners, including those of Albania, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Iraq, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Poland, Qatar, Romania, and Ukraine briefly discussed a very "top level" view of potential dual-track military operations in Iran and Iraq in a special "war room" set up on board the aircraft carrier. America's primary ally in Iraq, the United Kingdom, did not attend the planning session because it reportedly disagrees with a military strike on Iran. London also suspects the U.S. wants to move British troops from Basra in southern Iraq to the Baghdad area to help put down an expected surge in Sh'ia violence in Sadr City and other Sh'ia areas in central Iraq when the U.S. attacks Iran as well as clear the way for a U.S. military strike across the Iraqi-Iranian border aimed at securing the huge Iranian oil installations in Abadan. U.S. allies South Korea, Australia, Kuwait, Jordan, Italy, Netherlands, and Japan were also left out of the USS John F. Kennedy planning discussions because of their reported opposition to any strike on Iran.

more...

Hi all,

I'm sure I'm not the only person who has seen the rhetoric machine aimed at Iran. It is the same pattern as Iraq; 100% parallel. I think this guy has good facts, but he is just to willing to jump forward and guess what is going to break next.

This time, fortunately, his statements refer to something that was in the past, which can rule it out as a misplaced future speculation. Now if he came out and said, "Bush To Be Impeached" or "Kerry Will Be Found Winner on December 6th!" then I would probably question whether this was a part of some flawed trend in his reporting.

I hope he's got it, I hope he's got it....

Warmly,

George

and indictments on plame are still in the offing.

your criticism is valid, but I want to steer it a little back to center if I may.

He seems to be wrong when the event is upcoming, more than he is on current day things, it seems.

The reference to Five Star Trust may be a red herring, but by giving as much detail as he did, anyone with the time could track it down. If Kerry was accused of hacking the vote with DU support, no doubt someone on the right would take the tiome to seek out DU admin and get some answers.

On the note of informed sources "coming out," they have committed major crimes (could be considered treason) and just running up the the nearest MSM reporter may not be adventagous.

Now, the rest of your criticism I wholeheartedly agree with, and we should absolutely maintain a healthy level of skepticism. Frankly, I would love to hear more from Madsen directly; he is making some huge claims (that we'd love to believe he has backing for of course).

Let's hope this pans out!!

Warmly,

George

And I can tell you this from holding a secret security clearance -- the best information is disinformation. It can run any trail cold in a very short time.

decided that the job was worth more than $29 million, and began shaking down the Bush Crime Family. Poppy Bush's plane crash last week was a shot across the bow, a demand for payment. One way or another, Bush is going down.

may be a planted story?

Should we be forwarding to Keith?

KO is the only one who reported the Warren Co. story

a smoking gun has to be believable by your Aunt Emma who comes from a red state and it has to be so obvious that even when they shut their eyes they see it. This kind of stuff even when true (which I doubt)finally only comes out in book form (or in court)and isn't followed by mainstream America. Watergate was more of an exception than the rule. I also agree with the guy farther up the thread that mentions that he only knows of one lock down in Warren County Ohio. This story has enough junk in it to delight every yellow dog into biting.

You're right, it seems to me to be too large a conspiracy to be real. On the other hand, someone should look into it with the fact that it could very well be a plant to discredit the real story in mind.

Enquirer Warren Counnty story contacts are:

Erica Solvig: Esolvig@enquirer.com
Dan Horn: dhorn@enquirer.com
Dan Sewell: dsewell@enquirer.com

Switchboard: 513-721-2700

and don't forget:

Ron Leibau rleibau@enquirer.com

Howard Wilkinson hwilkinson@enquirer.com

I have a friend who knows him personally, and forwarded it to him. He apparently doesn't give it credence.

From his reply:

Nice all-purpose theory, XXXXX, but the one statement in there I know anything about is "There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied. In one unprecedented action in Warren County, Ohio..." -- I've been looking for these and I've found only the one lockdown in Warren County -- the media does not appear to have been excluded from any other vote count in any other county or municipality in the country.

Thanks.

We can keep working on the fact that there may have been wayward "technicians," but until one of them heads over to Countdown, the New York Times or the Washington Post, I'm gonna just stick this on my back-burner.

Wouldn't it be worth it though to ask the writer if he is willing to answer some questions about the piece? Keith could rip the truth out of him in less than 5 minutes if he was telling a tall tale. The writer has just enough credibility to call that credibility into question in an on air interview... at least Countdown could call/write him and check him out some so we don't spin our wheels wondering.

The claims are huge and they come from someone we believe is likely credible. Wouldn't it serve the public interest to know whether or not the writer can back his words?

Just some thoughts...

Warmly,

George

Hi Ommm,

Just in case you haven't seen it yet, Elorial is compiling a list of lockdown accounts on a thread called "RESEARCHERS -- need some googling QUICK re Vote Fraud" in general discussion. So far I have seen posts about an incident in New Mexico and an article on Palm Beach County lockdowns; sure to be others as the thread develops. Here is the link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=2750379#2750461

Perhaps if we find enough verifiable instanced of lockdowns based on Homeland security that could lead the story, Keith may have found the answer to his concern about the piece.

And again, if you haven't told the Countdown folks thanks yet, make sure to do so! countdown.msnbc.com

Just some thoughts... :)

Warmly,

George

other incidents on election day, similar to lockdowns. Send these to your friend that knows Olberman.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2750379&mesg_id=2750379

I hope it is, but there are a couple of things that sound very sketchy. The Saudi royal family AND Enron money financed this operation? Why? Were the Saudi's running short of cash this month?

I agree that we need to be very careful in embracing this story.

that the story didn't go ahead and say that Halliburton and Charles Manson were also involved.

represent a checklist of people who have in the past been alleged to have shadowy links with Bush and the Republicans, even having BCCI mentioned. That could of course go both ways and make it more credible, but it does sound a little as if someone put all the pieces together of what would be an 'ideal' story in terms to fully exposing corruption at the highest level.

A whole string of Waffle Houses were recently robbed. Guess what, the same four guys were involved in each robbery. And once you have a dirty past, your less likely to rat someone out because you'll be taken down too. Trust is built and loyalty rewarded. That is why the same rogues gallery keeps popping up. The same parapolitical/paramility network that brought us the likes of IRAN-Contra still exisits. Why was it that Poindexter reappears at DARPA eary in Bush term 1? Bush always talks about trust and loyalty.

all the same I'm still stuck with the impression that it does seem all a bit too perfect, the people John Kerry fought against in his senatorial career with Iran Contra and BCCI come back in a final showdown of epic proportions with the biggest plot of all - to steal the election for his arch nemesis George Bush - I mean if you were writing a novel it's exactly how you would make it come out, and that's why I'm a bit skeptical

No it's very much in their interest to keep Bush in power: Read Craig Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud"

sit on it after publishing online, if he really has access to these sources, he needs to put them in touch with other's who can help. The only motivation I can think of for not doing that would be ego based, but maybe I'm wrong. In either case if there is a story like this out there and it is as close to proof as it seems, it needs to be developed properly right now while we are still in the window of opportunity to prevent Bush's re-inauguration.

Ever since the election, I firmly believe the only way to learn the truth now is for an insider or two to risk their lives by turning and spilling the beans. If that hadn't been happening before the election, we would've been even more in the dark today. I believe this story, and I think these paid people were called to action by one of Rove's operatives after the exit poll results reflected a Kerry win.

I wear my tinfoil so often that my wardrobe is coordinated to match, but this story is very believeable.

If there were individuals "posing" as FBI and Homeland Security, that means they must have identified themselves as such to a fairly large number of people.

Does anybody know anybody who on election night was working at an election site and encountered anybody claiming to be with FBI or Homeland Security?

If so, and if those claims turn out to be false, maybe we've got something here.

let's also ask for photos & video.

employees and some sort of security people in the clerk's offices where county votes were being tabulated on their brand new Sequoias. And we are supposed to trust them? We can't even keep hackers and viruses off our computers and servers in this country and we trust people with our election who control the code to the machines? Go figure out how stupid we are.

it's that he doesn't really offer much on the voting issue.. he alleges "informed source in Washington and Houston" say Bush spent 29 million to place phony FBI agents at polling places. then what? Technicians? Were they the phony FBI officers? where are they? why no quotes from them?

then the article is mostly about the Cook Islands yarn. I expected it to tie into the Octopus Theory that was reported in Spy Magazine in the early 90s. not that that would be a bad thing. i've often wondered what happened to that computer program.

The first rule of conspiracy is to limit the number of people involved. (Except for us tinhats, who want everybody involved.)

But, it doesn't have to be a technician in every precinct on election night. All that has to be done is to gain access to the machines under the guise of FBI or Homeland Security, to plant a gremlin program in one machine (remember the machines themselves are networked together - at least some are) that can imbed itself in other machines. Basically, a virus, which we know works pretty well at spreading havoc. The tabulation machines and optical scanners can be hacked ahead of time too. You can trigger a program to kick in by the number of votes one candidate gets vs the other, or by an outside signal. So, you shouldn't need hundreds of people, and I think we would have heard if there were hundreds out there on election night, We do have evidence of Diebold technicians having access to the machines when they should not have. (Sorry, I don't have the links right now.) We know about people whose vote for Kerry was turned into a vote for Bush, and where straight ticket Democratic votes were shifted to minor party candidates. Those are easy to program to kick in on a random basis - hence hard to detect in testing.

I think I remember that there are 3000 or so ccounties in the US. If you had several months to do it, and 30 people, each person would only have to handle 100 counties - not an impossible task, especially since we know from Bev's screen shot that some "stand-alone" machines are really networked. You might be able to do a lot of the dirty work remotely: again, think virus.

I thought it odd we never saw any copies of the memos from Homeland Security about threats to Warren County. That always felt likei t had Rovian fingerprints, but I couldn't figure out why it happened, unless to discredit the real story if it started to leak out.

It might well be worth asking - each of us - our local officials (precinct level and higher) if they had any information from or contact with someone claiming to the FBI or Homeland Security at any time before the election.

Do you think that quizzing local officials is worthwhile, and if so, should that be a new thread in Voting Issues tasks to keep track of the answers?
:tinfoilhat:

i was picturing something more tangible. like phony FBI agents hanging out at the polls. but with technicians having high level access, they wouldn't need to be everywhere.

now that i've had my coffee i'm thinking clearer. :)

There are 67 counties. I was looking at optical scan (optical scam?) counties, per Kathy Dopp's research.

If you take 6 opscan plus one evote county, most medium sized, that look odd when you compare exit poll to tally -- then figure that say 15% of the vote could have been flipped from Kerry to Bush -- that 15% flip (working out to a 30% difference) in 7 counties would be the margin of the vote Bush "won" by in Florida. So, even if 49 states were exactly counted with no flaws (which they were not), the Jeb state could have been flipped by flipping 15% of the votes in 7 of the 67 counties. Plenty of electoral votes to win an otherwise close electoral race.

Probably only would take one or two people per county -- maybe less than that.

Have you seen these articles? Is Hopsticker a credible source?

November 15 2004-Venice,FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

"An investigation into the surprisingly-sordid history of America’s “election services industry” has revealed that executives and owners of the two largest companies, E S & S and Sequoia Pacific, have been convicted of bribery and suborning public officials in more than a dozen states." http://www.madcowprod.com/mc6912004.html

November 24 2004-Venice,FL.
by Daniel Hopsicker

"...One of America's two major election companies, Sequoia Pacific, has a felony 'rap sheet' an arm-long. In the endless news coverage of the recent Presidential Election, this news has somehow failed to surface, perhaps because if it had, people might start pouring into the streets here, too." http://www.madcowprod.com/11242004.html

there you go...now run with this PLEASE....

just because

the rest on shady financial dealings. Hm. As Mulder would say, "I want to believe," but it seems to me as if this fella basically got a whiff of vote fraud and combined that story with previous research on the money stuff.

A whiff's not enough. I'd be happier if the story gave us more detail about the hacks and how it happened. Still, though, it's exciting enough to make my heart race. Pleeeeeeeese, let this be the break!

supposed level 10 terror alert.

was going to send a bunch of FBI and (I think) Homeland Security out into the field to beef up security for the election. Could this have been a "cover" for the shady dealings that Madsen outlines? Found this in google.

<http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-10-07-fbi-help_x.htm>

FBI to get help on Election Day plots

WASHINGTON — Attorney General John Ashcroft quietly has issued a sweeping directive that authorizes the FBI to use hundreds of law enforcement agents from other federal agencies to help investigate any terrorist plots that target the Nov. 2 elections. (Related story: Election warning causes anxiety)
The directive — the first of its kind since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks — allows the FBI to tap agents from the U.S. Marshals Service, the Drug Enforcement Administration and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives as part of a nationwide effort by FBI-led counterterrorism units to seek out and stop any plots against the elections.

U.S. law enforcement officials continue to say that beyond intelligence reports indicating that al-Qaeda wants to disrupt the elections, they have no specific information about an existing plot, method or target of a potential attack.

(more)

They have secret meetings with Homeland Security and Houston Police every week.

I was venting to a close friend last week about all the crap that is happening here in the US, but she causally told me that Houston PD, Depart of Homeland Security and the FBI have been having secret weekly meetings ever since the Department of Homeland Security was created. She told me it was because Houston is considered to be third in the so called list for potential attacks in the US. This was the first time I heard about these secret meetings.

She is a counselor, but I have a strong feeling a client of hers attends counseling and is probably venting about the meeting. As I was venting my frustrations about the Universal ID card and the voter fraud, and my fear of the draft. She just causally mentioned it. So I really never gave it much thought and added my large list of reasons to despise these neo-cons.

Since I just happened to come across this thread now I wonder how long have they been planning to steal the election. I wish I could ask for further insight, but I know she won't tell me because she strongly believes in not violating the Counselor - Client confidentiality rule.

They have secret meetings with Homeland Security and Houston Police every week.

I was venting to a close friend last week about all the crap that is happening here in the US, but she causally told me that Houston PD, Depart of Homeland Security and the FBI have been having secret weekly meetings ever since the Department of Homeland Security was created. She told me it was because Houston is considered to be third in the so called list for potential attacks in the US. This was the first time I heard about these secret meetings.

She is a counselor, but I have a strong feeling a client of hers attends counseling and is probably venting about the meeting. As I was venting my frustrations about the Universal ID card and the voter fraud, and my fear of the draft. She just causally mentioned it. So I really never gave it much thought and added my large list of reasons to despise these neo-cons.

Since I just happened to come across this thread now I wonder how long have they been planning to steal the election. I wish I could ask for further insight, but I know she won't tell me because she strongly believes in not violating the Counselor - Client confidentiality rule.

technicians. I am sure that in an operation like this, everyone involved would be on a "need to know basis"

writer at the Counterpunch website. He's as solid as they come in my opinion. A real truth seeker.

Mike Ruppert's fromthewilderness.com and globalresearch.ca.
Here is another link from Global Research that may explain both the concession and the death of democracy:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BAK411A.html

Happy Holiday!

Wiley

I know I'm new here, but my instincts are different from some of yours. I say "distrust but follow up." I distrust any development that seems to be our dream come true, like the Jeff Fisher story, this one, & even Warren County lockdown. If it's obvious, it worries me.

The first, best lead to follow up on is the claim that "There have been media reports from around the country concerning the locking down of precincts while votes were being tallied." He only cites Warren County, which we all know about.

With all the election irregularities that have been pored over by so many people, how come more of these haven't been reported? Where are these "media reports"? I'd want to see some of those before I went a step further.

I've seen only 2 other references to lockdowns, take a look at my other post if you get a minute

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2750379&mesg_id=2750613

down to do their dirty work.

But he specifically says there are media reports about lockdowns around the country. I just wonder if there are, and where they are.

I suppose he could just be exaggerating a little, and be referring to cases like those in your link, where it's not exactly locked down, but the count is done in secretive/suspicious and badly monitored ways. I guess they might qualify--they fit in with the general premise: the ES&S technicians are running the show, and no one know or cares what they're doing.

1 in New Mexico (which appears to be a lockdown by dems) and 1 citing a lockdown at precincts located at schools in Florida. And yes, the voting systems vendors are running the show. I've also found that some states publish their software/hardware certification results and some don't. hmmm, wonder which ones don't? So far I haven't found any doco about Ohio's purchase and certification of their diebold junk, while Indiana has published minutes of all their meetings

This seems to me like it might just be a intentional divergence scheme designed to place tinfoil hats on as many of our heads as possible. I've been spending atleast an hour a day since Nov 2 reading every new media account I can find about voting irregularities, and don't recall any Warren county like lockdowns being reported. Someone must assemble some links to some of these stories before this even starts to look plausible to me.

It is irrelevant who bankrolled the fraud unless we can prove it. It should obvious by now that an adminsitration that can get away with outing a CIA operative can pretty much cover its tracks (the bushes ARE the CIA remember?). That said, someone had access to those machines who had diabolical intentions as Bev Harris has proven. What we need to do is connect the dots...there were Diebold technicians on spot in several states where the machines suffered some "malfunction" that needed "fixing". Plus as Bev Harris said we need to know where and when the memory cards were "dropped". More public pressure might speed up some answers.

who were the ones posing as Homeland Security and FBI agents. One would hope that these technicians(or technician or whomever...) would be somewhere in a "secure undisclosed location"! And...that if the FBI was involved at this point that those FBI people would be REAL FBI people and not merely more technicians. This is what has concerned me with the Jeff Fisher stuff...that you can't give information like this to just anybody. You can only trust...who? HA!

I'm for keeping this one kicked until we get more info!

(hope that's not too many exclamation marks...)

All of this reminds me of a line from the 1997 movie "Conspiracy Theory" starting Mel Gibson "A good conspiracy is unprovable. If you can prove it, it means they screwed up somewhere along the line."

I guess if the intelligence community is a family, we think of ourselves as the uncle no one talks about.

tell me what IMO and NGU mean, I am a newbie and it's driving me crazy trying to figure it out. thanks :)

helping with the machines. Don't have a link but I read about it. It's being investigated.
The story is in this article.

<http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/10192340.htm?1c>

(snip)

The county pays a technician from Diebold to operate its systems on Election Day. That person was in charge of transferring early votes from electronic storage to the counting computer. Diebold believes the transmission was interrupted, said spokesman David Bear.

(more)

that was out about Diebold before the elections?

In Gaston, the state also will investigate whether a technician employed by a private company did work on Election Day that should have been done by elections officials.

"The Gaston Board of Elections paid for the presence of a technician from Diebold Election Systems, which manufactures the county's voting machines.

Gaston Elections Director Sandra Page has told the Observer that the employee loaded the county's early votes onto a computer and otherwise assisted in the vote-counting process, a job reserved for elections officials.

"We don't want that technician to do anything that is the responsibility of an election official," Bartlett said. "If you have some technician doing that, there better be some election official right beside them."

But Page has told the Observer that she did not watch the entire process. She says the county Board of Elections watched, but Richard Jordan, one of three board members, said he did not remember watching."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/breaking_news/10220215.htm
-------
when confronted with this and the 12,000 missing votes, election Director Sandra Page lawyered up and got real sick all'a sudden:

"Minutes later, Page walked from the interview room to her private office. She remained inside with her personal attorney, Jim Funderburk, for almost 30 minutes. Then she walked to her car and drove away. The lawyer said afterward that Page was headed to a doctor's appointment.

After a delay of several hours, the Gaston Board of Elections arrived and convened in Page's office to meet with Wright behind closed doors. Only one of the three-member board, Richard Jordan, has been in regular attendance during the investigation. Branch and Lanier Williams have attended only briefly.

The board talked for almost an hour before opening the door. Branch said they had been informed that Page's doctor had advised her to take a leave of absence, and that the board wished her well.

Branch declined to say whether the board believes Page should remain in office. He also declined to discuss the extent of the board's responsibility for Gaston's problems. And he declined to say whether people should have confidence in Gaston County's official election results."

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/10259601.htm

This has all the elements...Saudi Royal family a la F911..Enron (*'s Texas connections), every evoting corp...BCCI and on and on. Way too neat, obviously manufactured and intended to peg us as nutballs...DON'T FALL FOR IT!!!!!!!

Particularly as it was dropped on the Thanksgiving Day which essentially means there'll be a four day MSM news vacuum to allow us plenty of time to use the propellers on our tin foil hats to fly all around.

This needs to be done by the numbers. But Wayne Madsen seems to me to be a honorable man and his article merits being taken seriously (but certainly not swallowd wholesale)

I've found him to have solid insider connections. He's a friend and former researcher to Cynthia McKinney. He's not shitting us here.