Another thing - can everyone PLEASE stop bagging on Kerry!

John Kerry probably did exactly what he thought was best for the country. The reality is that he probably had no idea about all these elements of fraud on election day. His own lawyer admitted in an article that they weren't necessarily trained to detect computer fraud.

Now that all these incidents of fraud are being alleged, John Kerry knows exactly what's going on, and I believe he's correct to wait until the widest possible scope of evidence is available before going forward with anything.

Let's not sell Kerry short. Many states haven't even certified their results yet, and most investigations are still ongoing.

Naturally, if Kerry just sits back and ends up doing nothing, I'll be forced to eat my words. But for now we should be uniting behind John Kerry while still urging him to contest the election.

and i still believe! some days are harder than others, wondering where he stands on all this....but i hold on to the hope.

Give the man a chance to do what he promised he would do. I still believe in John Kerry. Things are starting to heat up. The media backdrop is now "Fraud in the Ukraine" instead of "Soldiers in Fallujah".

Hopefully, because of the tremendous efforts of so many people, we will have hard evidence in hand. Holding this administration and those responsible for the fraud accountable and securing future elections is the greater issue.

I would love to have John Kerry in the White House in 2005, but I am also grounded in the reality that that is a long shot.

that ignore button works wonders.

malatesta, is that you dear?

the greatest belly laugh I had all month. Thanks, Faye, I love you. :pals:

He did what was best for the country, which was roll over and allow four more years of global holocaust under Bush.

What was all that talk about 'bring it on', about lawyers prepared to challenge fraud?

And why did he hire lawyers who were not trained to detect computer fraud in the first place? On top of a wimp, are you trying to tell me that he's also STUPID?

:evilfrown:

lol i'm confused

He is neither a wimp nor stupid and this will be proven once the game plays out.

History has shown that he is not a wimp. We can only speculate as to his motives on Nov 3rd. Al Gore contested the election, and we all know how that one turned out. Is it so inconceivable that John Kerry might be fighting a different fight, one that is on his terms, not on the terms of the corporate media and the repukes?

In my opinion, he successfully avoided a post election ambush...The carefully timed assault on Fallujah. We do not know what will happen next, and that is a good thing. If we knew the next step then certainly the repukes would know and counter with a full on barrage.

Pop some popcorn, relax and watch the show. If you want to help, join in the investigation, go to Ohio and volunteer, organize and participate in a protest or donate. Bashing our candidate at this point in time is not helpful to our cause.

to contest the election only in the Florida counties he knew he was ahead. He should've asked for a statewide recount. That stupidity cost us the White House.

And had Kerry not been a wimp, he would've welcomed a post-election media ambush, a great opportunity to expose them as the Bush whores that they are. But he didn't, he chose to let others do the dirty work, how brave!

Being a volunteer in Ohio is USELESS when the main computer is being hacked by the Republican Secretary of State in the comfort and privacy of his own office, let's get real.

Ukrainians know how to fight fraud, Americans stay behind their computers and bitch.

But it does not help our cause to trash our candidates at this point.

Fact: Had President Gore challenged the entire state of Florida, the SCOTUS still would have stopped the vote.

Did he make mistakes? Yes
Is he stupid? I don't think so
Did he stay on to fight after the selection? No

Who can we blame for this stolen election??? Let's brainstorm, could it be the corrupt corporate media that failed to investigate issues of voter fraud in 2000 and 2002. Could it be that same media that failed to investigate the vulnerabilities of computerized voting, and refuses to cover the thousands of reported "irregularities"? Could it be the corrupt local precincts and state legislatures that allow party chairmen to hold critical election posts? Could it be the powerful corporate interests that directly benefit from the Bush Administration? Could it be the apathy of the American people?

I am not willing to write off John Kerry. He has already shown that he is not going anywhere. I do not blame him for what has happened in this election. It was a coup from the start. We have no idea what his strategy is at this point. Unless he gives me a reason to doubt my trust, I intend to support him in the White House or in the Senate.

He fought a good fight, but if we really want change in this country, it is going to take all of us. What we need now is a strong leader to capture the voice of the American people and help us take back our country.

Kerry is no candidate, the election is over and he conceded.

Gore made a mistake and we lost the White House, but at least he tried. Kerry is sipping champagne in his Heinz estate right now and laughing at us.

And we, we get stuck with 4 more years of global holocaust. Thank you, John Kerry!

Amen. Our so-called "biased" liberal news media was petrified about appearing biased. As such, they allowed equal time for Democrats to state the truth and for Republicans to mis-state the truth. That's not "fair" and "unbiased." It's cowardly and irresponsible. Unbiased reporting does not require allowing equal time for undocumented lies when refuting well-documented truth. Factcheck.org should have been used more often by the media. The difference between factcheck.org and Kerry-Edwards statements was very slight. The difference between Bush-Chaney statements and factcheck.org was tremendous. John Kerry's DOCUMENTED military record, which has been available for many months, should have received far more air-time than the un-documented lies of John O'Neill. We DO keep official, dated, written records in this country. It's not "un-biased" to give complete hearsay equal time with verified, documented information equal time. It's irresponsible. The media always did the "there are 2 sides to this story" dance. There ARE 2 sides on positions, opinions, and theories. But the truth only has 1 side. There's no reason to allow refutation of documented facts with hearsay. Hearsay wouldn't stand up in court. It shouldn't get equal time in "fair and unbiased" news reporting. It should be saved for the Science Fiction channel.
Kerry did an outstanding job on his campaign. He was torpedoed by the news media, which had been intimidated by the right-wing extremists. Kerry didn't realize that it would be necessary to address un-supported Republican lies, especially when the truth was easily accessible and well-documented in public records. Who can blame him for that? How could he have seen the pervasiveness of the Republican adage: "We create our own reality."? Why would anyone suspect that this "alternate" reality would be given equal time with "documented" reality? I sure didn't. Most of the rest of you probably didn't either.
Let's continue the fight. Maybe we can't win Ohio. But we won't know until an honest recount is done. Let's make sure that takes place. There's still hope. Even if we can't win, we can certainly reduce the margin of Bush's 136,000-vote "mandate."

I am diane and I just drifted over here from blackboxvoting.org. A few days before the election I stumbled across that site, I was already convinced that Kerry was going to win, but was still shell shocked from the 2000 election and the 2002 election here in florida.

I downloaded the movie trailer and thought "good, people still care as much as I do about voter fraud etc." When it started to turn ugly late that night and the following day, I checked into the discussion groups at BBV.org. I sent an email about a bazillion times offering to help. NO REPLIES, none whatsoever.. Then BBV showed up in Florida, not only Florida, but in my county. I was offering to do ANYTHING .. no reply.

Then things in there, in my opinion, got nuts. ConspiracyTheoryWonderland .. GOOD GRIEF .. If Bush succeeds in stealing this election, we will have 4 years to prove conspiracy. I am sure it is there, but there was one person who thought everyone was connected to everyone, and it was just nuts. I voiced my opinion that this certain poster was not helping the group with his finger pointing at this one and that one. Much of what he said was libelous, if he was wrong. Much of what he said couldn't be proved or was wrong and I said that the conspiracy thread would reflect poorly on BBV if he was wrong, and I was sure he was. I said that being BBV was finally getting some publicity, reporters might be dropping in there to read some threads, and if this one was read by anyone, they would think everything posted there was BS.

The moderator said there was too much said in there, and he was going to remove some posts to protect others .. and then what happened shocked me. Any one who said they didn't believe the Conspiracy guy had their post removed .. Mine was one of them. Here we are at a time when every minute is critical .. I felt there needed to be a plan to organize .. "Look at the Ukraine" I said, those people never had a vote before, and the first time they do it is stolen. .. Without any organizing, all the people somehow came together for a national protest. But we just sit here licking our wounds.

Remember Bush's stupid "fool me once" speech ??? THAT'S US !! Americans who care about democracy .. Fool me once, shame on you, Fool me twice, shame on me .. So I ask, are people going to unite ?
My boyfriend and I have been obsessed with this election. Today I put up a website that I took down last month. www.e-lection.us and my plan is to organize some sort of protest if the Ohio recount starts to look fixed as well .. I am thinking it will and I would like very much to have a plan in case it does. I don't think there will be time to do anything by the time Ohio even starts counting .. I don't think there is time for counting actually.

As for Kerry .. I think he is RIGHT HERE I don't think he abandoned us. Remember, that was the day Elizabeth Edwards got her cancer news. maybe kerry wanted John Edwards to spend some time with his wife before the fighting begins. I feel confident, and like someone else said, if I am wrong, if Kerry has turned his back on the election, he must have a very good reason. I stood 4 feet away from him one time and looked in his eyes when he was talking .. HE MEANT EVERY WORD HE SAID .. I refuse to believe any different, because anything different is just not true.

Now that my long rambling message is over I just want to say:
1] I will not concede.
2] I think we need a nationwide strike.
3] I need people with experience in organizing this sort of a thing to give me some pointers, or help.

I am a child of the 60's and so I was right in there during the protests of the 60's and 70's .. but I gotta admit .. I CAN'T REMEMBER A THING, know what I mean ??

dee-ception at e-lection dot us is my email address, the site is hosted, just nothing there yet.

Have you considered how difficult it must be to go about his life when he knows he won? But, to say anything now would jeaprodize the whole thing. The MSM would be all over him like vultures over roadkill! He is a former prosecutor, remember? A good prosecutor has to hold his cards until the right time to play the hand. He investigated BCCI and Iran-Contra: he knows the kind of people he's dealing with (I'm not implying the same ones, like Madsen) and how much it will take to bring them down. He knows the importance of public opinion: evidence and proof aren't enough if it won't sway the public. Trust the man, and get off his case!

He's gotta be smarter than that....well then again, maybe you're right, even bush* was able to fool him on the war!

could someone tell me what malatesta is saying right now? it at least wont' be so annoying if someone else tells me rather than hearing it from him/her/it

it the American experiment in democracy. Where is he when we need him most -- he should be out leading the effort to investigate and demand transparency in election 2004; not skulking away in the corner, watching and waiting to see if anything comes of this. He should be the LEADER!!! NOT AFRAID TO BE EMBARRASSED; NOT AFRAID OF THE ESTABLISHMENT! Instead he's 'sniffing around' ready to pounce if others prove the case for him. HIS LACK OF LEADERSHIP IS NOT BEST FOR THE COUNTRY!

I want you for one minute to imagine the shoe on the other foot -- and you all know in your heart of hearts that George Bush and Karl Rove would be screaming FRAUD like stuffed pigs if the exit polls, etc. showed Bush winning only to watch the vote break for Kerry the next morning.

If the Kerry campaign was not trained to look for and recognize computer fraud then that's an ignorance we could ill afford. I've been paying attention to the warnings of Bev Harris and Greg Palast and numerous computer techies who have been telling anyone who wanted to hear all the various way the election could be stolen. What planet was the Kerry campaign on this past year!

What we need right now is for Kerry to find the backbone and fortitude of a man like Yushchenko. We need him to get his ego out of the way -- it was never about him, it was about US, the U.S. We need him to be the personification of everything good and honest about this country, willing to stand up for we the people and ultimately for democracy in America itself. Even if that means he looks like a sore loser!

Kerry quit while the votes were still being counted. Dropped out of sight. Where is he. Does he even care about any election fraud? How do we know one way or the other?

what Democrats, progressives and liberals lack right now is effective leadership . . . we trusted Kerry with our nomination, supported him with money, time and energy, and he turned his back on us . . . at the time when his leadership is most needed, he's been invisible . . . you're absolutely correct in noting that this is not about him, it's about saving our experiment in democracy . . .

i'm sure he would rather us defend ourselves to save our own democracy, WE ARE THE PEOPLE. We need to be our own leaders. Isn't that the kind of message he gave throughout his life? After the Vietnam war?

the only way to get the word out about election fraud is through the media, and at this point they're viewing it as nothing more than some tinfoil hat craziness instigated by bloggers . . . so we need recognized leaders (e.g. Kerry) to be taking the case to the public . . . the media may not report what we're saying on DU, but they'd pretty much have to report it if Kerry was also saying it . . .

incontrovertible proof. And if he doesn't have it, there goes the whole "vote fraud" story. And so does everyone's credibility, including Kerry's. Wouldn't you rather wait a few days until a case has been made and proof is there so that Kerry's allegations can be followed by credible investigations and the people's backing?

You cannot risk this allegations being spun like they did the CYA memo's or the Plame leak or the WMD's story or the 911 investigation or...... The case has to be clear and incontrovertible or your last chance at justice will extinguish faster than you can say fraud.

There seems little more than wishful thinking to predispose any else but that he has 'abandoned us' as a leader -- unless he's some kind of new fashioned, futuristic 'stealth' or 'virtual' leader. I personally prefer a leader who is out there ahead of us, taking on the unpopular positions, "not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

It gives the masses the image that "there's nothing here" and they hear the rethugs ridiculing us and Kerry is silent. That is very damaging to an attempt to uncover the fraud.

Sure, John Kerry could cry foul, and challenge the establishment head on. Of course that is what the repukes would do, and they would have the entire corporate propaganda machine to back them up. For them, that tactic might work.

The protests will come, and they will be heard around the world, when the time is right. We have a leader that has stood to fight in real combat, why do we doubt that he would shirk from that fight now, when the stakes are so high.

Where is John Kerry when we need him most? Well, based on the video message he sent out, I believe that he and his staff are making sure that the Ohio vote is counted properly, and documenting every case of fraud and voting irregularity.

In a short time we will know what is really going on. For now, I am willing to give the Senator the benefit of the doubt. I believe that he understands the stakes. Regardless of the outcome of this election, I believe in John Kerry, and I will continue to have his back.

NGU.

And welcome to DU!

critics to deal with than us, so I guess he'd better get a thick skin.

it's only the pugs who go on about how fearsome they are when challenged. It's called "whistling in the dark". Dems have more mature preoccupations.

I am giving Kerry the 100 percent benefit of the doubt. Try to imagine, if he were yammering about a tainted election and possible manipulation of the vote, the media would be pulling him in every rabbit trail direction. They would be asking for interviews, albeit with hidden agendas, and when he refuses because he needs to work on what's really important (getting to the facts of the case), they'll say he's a wimp for not coming out and fighting. They'll take every single word and twist and turn it and distort it to the point that no one will remember what he said, all they will remember is what the media claims he said.

Let the man do his work. If I'm wrong, so be it. I think he is acting as a reasonable and prudent attorney should act in the investigation of the most important case of his life. A person needs time alone, out of the spotlight, to study something as complicated as a tainted election, especially one with voter suppression involved. He has to get it right when he presents his case, because there is no court of appeals in the mind of the American public.

outlining "children without health care" when the beginning body addressed the vote counts and election reform, was just a little strange??? Even Keith Oberman did. I strongly feel he is telling us something. He is to much of a deep thinker and a very strategic man to be ignoring what is happening. Look at his campaign advisers. They openly stated they got impatient with his inability to make a quick decision, that he would gather data till the cows came home before he decided. Although it annoyed them, it was one of the many things they liked about him.

"I BELIEVE" <----------AS HE WOULD SAY...he is doing what straight shooter says. You have to look at the man's character, and the man as a WHOLE and be patient.:think:

After 2000? We have got big problems..

Could Kerry team have NOT seen the implications of auditless voting and the other voting issues? Could they not see the hardcore immorality of the B**h regime? Nah...I'd rather think he/they have good reason for silence right now.

But I agree, Kerry's reputation is on the line with this. If he can't provide leadership in this critical area, we will have alot of work to do looking for somebody else. Election investigation and reform needs a major hitter.

...and frustrated Dems who have drunk the Radical RW's kool-aid. Pitiable people, GG. Just ignore them.

NGU.

He fucked us and people that can not see that are a bigger danger to our future than Rove.

Blind, stupid, and a sellout. The bastard slept through the summer. The convention was a W lovefest. We lost when we played played nice. As long as we live in a fantasy world they win.

if I were you.Kerry is nowhere in site!
Kerry is not helping Bev Harris,not moraly or financially!He promised to count every vote,but he gave up before every vote was counted.
Face it,he sold us down the river!

If you're that cynical, is it too much to ask that you keep it to yourself?

NGU.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And I'm not TELLING you anything. I am ASKING you as a fellow Progressive who understands his or her responsibility to others - unlike the Radical RW - to keep your doubts to yourself, for they do nothing but demoralize our side.

NGU.

These are your words to me:
"If you're that cynical, is it too much to ask that you keep it to yourself?"

My post was not cynical,it was my opinion!

You told me not to post my opinion(see above)
That's what a republican would do if I posted my opinion on their forum.They probably would also delete my post.

I was appealing to your sense of responsibility toward others and your respect for hope as a Progressive, as opposed to the Radical RW which - as you correctly point out - would just shut you up. And therein lies the difference.

Thanks, by the way, for helping me keep this thread kicked.

NGU.

deleted my post?

They know more than I do that name-calling is against the rules.

NGU.

And I'm pissed off that Kerry, who has MILLIONS of dollars in defense fund money and complete access to the media, isn't using it to at least being a closer look to this issue in Ohio. I'm still not sure we can prove anything, but if we don't get someone high profile like Kerry to lay his ass on the line no one will ever give us the time of day.

As a poster says above, if Kerry "lays his ass on the line" without damning proof of Radical RW criminality, WE ALL LOSE OUR CREDIBILITY. GAME OVER.

Patience, my Buck-Stops-Here friend...

NGU.

I don't think he has to come out guns blazing and say that there is fraud. That would be politically inastute. However, if he simply asked some open questions about things we have been seeing and reading about it would draw a great deal of attention to the matter. As for how I know he isn't, well, there is no publicity on the matter so he isn't doing that. Further, if he is lending any help to to recount effort, it isn't showing up. Could he be, yes, I suppose. Patience is a difficult thing to have when we are coming up on the Electoral College vote. All the safe harbor provisions are going to kick in soon. Even if we find fraud after that we are screwed.

Don't think we will be able to remove B%sh if we find it. Be certain that there won't be any connection to the top. Some low level official will take the blame. Finally, bushco will be granted a type of good faith exception. We need news coverage on this issue sooner not later. Thats all I'm saying. I still don't even know that we will be able to prove anything, but we need to do it now if we have any hope.

Not crushing hopes, just pushing for action. Kerry needs to step up and risk, SOME not all of his political capital for the cause. Just my opinion.

:kick:

But I'm ready to fight.

NGU.

So, after the Democratic hopefuls had shaken out (or been shaken out by the media, like Dean), I looked at the candidate who was going to go up against...not so much Bush, but the Republican machine...and I garnered what information I could about him.

These are some of the significant facts that I learned about him. He volunteered for Vietnam and then for swift boat duty in Vietnam. There he earned a couple of medals (besides purple hearts), one for pulling a man out of the water under fire, and the other for beaching his boat (a tactic that was unorthodox enough to require special permission), in order to personally run down an enemy soldier who was trying to load a rocket launcher which could have destroyed his boat, not tot mention his crew.

Immediately after the war, he took a major leadership roll in the Viet Nam Veterans Against the War, a group that had been little heard of before he got ahold of them, but who mde a major splash thereafter. I think John Kerry focused their energy into doing things that were organized, forceful, good theater, and that got them covered by the media. He was not successful in ending that war early, but it was a splendid effort.

Next, he finished law school and served as a public prosecutor in MA, in which job, he learned quite a bit about how the mafia operates. I'm not sure how much success he had at prosecuting them, but that is a formidable foe. This experience gave him the background later on, as a senator, to be the first to discover that the Reagan administration's dirty war in Nicaragua was using drug money to fund itself. He found this out too early to be credited with first blood, but he found it out.

Now he finds himself confronting an extremely dangerous victory. I assume that it troubles George Bush not a whit that the country is horribly and agonizingly divided, but I assume that John Kerry is keenly sensitive to that fact. I judge this country to be a few steps away from civil war. If we succeed in proving sufficient fraud in Ohio to swear Mr. Kerry in as president in January, he will have an amazingly difficult set of tasks before him, not the least of which will be to reconcile the Bush supporters to the fact that the Kerry supporters are the small majority, not them. Bush supporters are full of passion but lack quite a few facts and quite a bit of understanding of the constitution of these United States.

Given that the media are deeply and unconsciously complicit in the destruction of democracy in this country, Kerry will have to be extremely sure of his case, and extremely eloquent in his statement of the facts that back it up if he hopes to: a) make it clear enough for the average pundit to understand, and b) convince the rank and file Republican that he won fair and square. The very best of luck to him, and if there's anything at all that I can do to help, he has but to call.

May I quote you?

NGU.

I'm new here, and I'd really like to know what NGU means. I have guessed that n/t means "no text." Yes? And does peeps simply mean people? And what exactly are freepers?

If you have time to reply, I will be grateful.:dunce:

NGU is my personal motto, adopted on Nov.3, 2004: Never Give Up.

n/t does mean "no text."

Peeps does mean people.

And freepers are, technically, denizens of that slimy pit of Radical Rightwing snakes, the Free Republic message board - tho the expression has broadened a bit to mean any psychotic RW whackjob.

Glad to help.

NGU.

From one who loves words, and is time-challenged for keeping up with the new ones.

NGU is fine, and I shall. I confess it took me 6 days, I believe, after the election--6 days of reading DU and other sites--to finally think "Why in heaven's name didn't I think they would cheat if they could?" They cheated in 2000, they cheated every day for 4 years since then, they cheated in the campaign, and they cheated at trying to suppress the vote. Why the H wouldn't they simply change the numbers if they could?

Anyhow, as to this topic, I think in general we should all be proud and grateful that the Democrats can still get people of Kerry's caliber to run for president. If we contemplate what the Republicans are running, we should give thanks.

It's naive to think that anything will change, or that Kerry is somehow fighting behind the scenes.
It's stupid to think that.
If he is afraid to come out now because they would destroy him, what in the world makes anybody think he wouldn't be afraid to come out in a later time?

That was a favorite of mine when I was in third grade.

NGU.

the scenes, or the results of this "election" will be changed somehow?
I think not.

...will be changed. Is it so unthinkable to a Progressive like you that Kerry might be working - behind the scenes or not - to do the right thing, that is, to expose FRAUD so we can fix our broken election system?

NGU.

Most of them couldn't stand up to Bush when they voted for the war resolution. Why in the world would I think any of them can stand up to him now?
Look at the Ukranian guy-he was apparently poisoned and still he tells the Ukranians to go out and protest the election FRAUD! And Kerry told us to play nice and follow Bush-what exactly should I think?

Why don't you join a party in whose leaders you can have confidence?

NGU.

As to why I don't register as a Republican-well, that's easy- I can't stand Bush and what he is doing.
:eyes:

NGU.

NGU.

Who am I to consider our leader?
Geez!
I really would vote for a ham sandwich before I voted for Bush.
I am just upset that time is slipping away and I feel that nothing can be done.
:cry:
If I am wrong, I would be very happy, but I don't think I am.
I don't think anything can change now.
For one thing, we sure as hell aren't protesing election FRAUD as they do in Ukraine.

...perhaps you should consider the fact that your words are discouraging and disruptive to those of us who are motivated to do SOMETHING - even if it doesn't help JK - to once and for all stomp out election FRAUD and see that those responsible serve time.

NGU.

....What kind of man he truly is, what he stands for, and what he believes in YES it very much does make sense, will the results of this election change somehow it is doubtful but not impossible. So some of us here DU will refuse to drink the kool-aid that some around here obviously have that make them believe that eating their own, calling a man names and making nasty remarks about him is the way to solve all the problems. Right now the democrats are a minority party and we need not be kicking one of key members because everything hasn't gone the way we wanted it to. This man is on our side and will continue to be regardless of what the final outcome of this election.

hero once again.

Criticisms are fine and encouraged, but full-on disrepect and name-calling is going a little too far.

If the recounts all came out the way we wish (against all odds), there would be lots of posts on DU trashing Kerry - for all time.

If Kerry is waiting for others to dig up the facts, he is seriously threatening the case. With his money, and being, legally, an interested party, Kerry can dig up way more dirt than civilians such as Bev Harris. It's irresponsible for him to wait.

But it seems to me that if he was issuing thousands of subpoenas and FOIA demands, we'd hear about it. He knew as well as the rest of us that this election was going to be stolen electronically. Why didn't he hire fleets of computer security experts? Why didn't his lawyers have rafts of document demands locked and loaded, ready for issuance on Nov 3? I thought he used to be a prosecutor; isn't this stuff taught in Prosecutor 101?

also getting off on it.

I agree with "GayGuyinCalifornia" about not selling Kerry short. We should all remember Kerry's personal history. He was a district attorney for many years. He knows not to start anything until he has enough solid evidence to proceed.
Also remember that Kerry is not the slightest bit afraid of conflict. After serving heroically in Viet Nam, he came back and protested the war. He was extremely outspoken, controversial, and public in his criticism of the war. He was heavily criticized, yet completely undeterred by the criticism. I don't think he's avoiding involvement in the current fraud controversy. I think he's waiting until the time is right. Following his concession, a Kerry campaign attorney mentioned not wanting to protest anything, initially. He wanted to avoid bringing a flood of Republican lawyers to Ohio before everything was counted. This is probably still the current strategy, though it may be time to revise this strategy.
It's also probable that Kerry was unaware how much support there is for recount efforts. Recount efforts have received an unbelievable media blackout. Media polls regarding America's perception of the election's validity are ridiculously unrepresentative. There are at least 50 million Democrats who strongly suspect the election was stolen. The media would like to make us think that we are deranged to think the election might have been stolen. I think it is deranged to assume blindly that it wasn't stolen. There are just too many voting irregularities to assume otherwise. There are hundreds of documented, specific vote-suppression incidents in Ohio alone.
Let's all stick together on this and be ready to strike when the time is right. And do as much as we can at present.

Another potential recount setback has occurred in Ohio. In Ohio, a Delaware County judge granted a temporary RESTRAINING ORDER, blocking the RECOUNT in Delaware county. Presidential vote recounts will be BLOCKED in Delaware county if this order stays in effect! Other Ohio counties are considering similar action. This was reported in the Columbus Dispatch on November 24, by Mary Beth Lane. I can only post part of the article due to possible copyright infringement. Here are some excerpts:

"A Delaware County judge yesterday granted a temporary restraining order sought by the county’s Board of Elections to block Green and Libertarian presidential candidates from forcing a recount of the Nov. 2 election results.
County Prosecutor David Yost, the board’s legal adviser, said he was pleased that Common Pleas Judge W. Duncan Whitney granted the temporary order. The board is seeking a permanent injunction to quash the recount request.
In the Delaware County case, the elections board wants to block a recount both before and after certification...."

"Delaware County is apparently the first county to seek a court order blocking a recount, said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell.
Other counties, however, are thinking about it, he said.
Keith Cunningham, director of the Allen County Board of Elections and incoming president of the Ohio Association of Elections Officials, said he might mobilize other counties to resist a recount, the Associated Press reported...."

I strongly urge everyone to look in to this and write to every elected Democratic official you can think of. It sounds illegal to me, but when has that ever stopped the Republicans?

I've posted this a few other places, but the impatient and discouraged keep popping up, like mushrooms after rain.

This was posted by Joseph Cannon, http://cannonfire.blogspot.com

"Kerry: I've just heard from one of the most noteworthy soldiers in his campaign "army" (not a general, but not just a grunt) that the senator does not consider this fight over.'

I"ve been reading Joseph for awhile now, and he generally makes pretty good sense and gets news quickly. He was pessimistic about the election before hand, because he figured they would figure out a way to cheat. I think he should be being a bit more skeptical about Madsen, but, maybe his readers will uncover something we don't. As to what he could have done before the election to prevent the hacking, I'm at a loss to know what he could have done.

Instead on whining, find something useful to do: become a researcher, learn more about how your own state handles elections, find out how to become an election poll worker or election official, etc. JUST DON'T WHINE ABOUT KERRY WHEN YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY UNDERSTAND HIS STRATEGY!

Kerry did his best. The reason Bush
is in the Whitehouse is because of voter
fraud.

but some of these thread are entirely too negative. I guess I will take a break. Somebody holla back when good news comes out of this.:(