Is your faith in that election fraud will be discovered waining?

Just interested to know how discouraged people are feeling. I know that as time goes on, I keep feeling this will end up like the JFK conspiracy... talked about forever, but no answer found.

NGU.

it will not get any media attention and the repukes in charge will do nothing about it.
They will put up some diversion about the time it is announced and the media will cover that like the good litte nazis they are and then we will go on with the screwing.
Please pass the KY.

<sarcasm off>

NGU.

It's a little like Columbus discovering America, dontcha think.

It's there, it's big as Hell, and many more people in the rest of the world already know about it.

Suppression will be demonstrated beyond any doubt, and I think we'll even uncover some tampering. I do, however, have doubt that the tampering will amount to anything more than the downfall of some local election officials and/or company reps. Still, it'll be enough to hopefully take down some corrupt individuals, and more importantly, force some much needed change in the way elections are run.

I have no doubts that it'll be found, but doubts that it'll be soon.

be discovered but will fall into what they term "normal and expected %" hence nothing of any consequence will come of it

Not on my watch, my friend.

NGU.

The great thing, the silver lining in all of this is that I am not the only newly radicalized American (well, I became radical three years ago, but I'm 41) and I am continuing to work night and day to make changes happen. Sure, I'd love to get the vote corrected and Kerry into the White House but that is not the deciding factor. I will give my last breath to make sure this country has some chance to get its "democracy" back. There are many, many like me and like you. Too many to be shut up and shut down.

The revolution is on. It will not be televised, but it is on.

is waning.

ya beat me to it...

It will be prosecuted and the media will be forced, with tails tucked between their legs, to mention it.

:toast:

Just a little bit at a time, and it won't come out in full (ever, probably, but at least not before the chimp inflicts more pain on the US and the world), but the news is coming out.

They've tried to suppress it, but it's too big a story and the patterns of fraud/disenfranchisement/"glitches" are coming too rapidly and through too many national outlets. It's going to break before Chimpy's 4 years are up. (And hopefully much sooner!)

I remember Watergate...the break in was the summer before the election. It was two+ years before Nixon finally resigned.

Real life isn't like the movies; someone finds a clue and there's a desperate late night scramble to "get the truth out" and then everything is OK. Real life is like...well, real life. Things are messy, take time, and there's a lot of work to be done before it's all over.

And even after it's "all over" there's a lot of clean up to be done.

So, will this be settled tomorrow? No way. Will it get resolved eventually? Almost certainly. Another way real life isn't like the movies: in the long run, the truth always wins.

--MarkusQ

Keep the faith my friend.

And Never Give Up.

but really, I never had any hope... why? Because if *I* had done
the deed (and I was a hacker in my misspent youth, back when hackers
were given jobs instead of jail terms), nobody, but nobody, would
be able to trace it or even prove that it was done, which leaves
only the hope that someone doing the hacking will come forward,
hopefully with some sort of documented evidence of his evil doing.
And, also, he or she isn't either discredited or removed before
the story gets out ( ratherized ).

Which is also why the next time, we hack the vote and we have to
guarantee that we are the last ones with our hands in the cookie
jar.

a December to remember.

NGU!!

...but of course, the Liberal media will refuse to ask "why."

At least they will cover Russian elections though.

it seems like things are moving slow. I keep hoping something good comes out of this, but it is a very slow process.

The media cant even admit they lied to us about WMDs or "Saddam caused 9/11" or "Kerry faked his medals"

They act like its all a game- I dont expect the media to start being honest now.

Most prominent DEMS have had their balls surgically removed a long time ago too- so forget them as well.

Its up to us to talk to as many people as possible-but Democracy as we know it may very well be over...

They probably believe there are still WMDs in Iraq. The media gets their information from the Pentagon. Like someone posted earlier, Bush has "put a leash on them" they are like a bunch of trained dogs.

I was surprised in 2000, shocked in 2004. Bush had an abysmal approval rating, independents preferred Kerry 2-1, the exit polls had Kerry ahead in Florida And Ohio then after midnight PUFF! it all goes up in smoke like the ghostly jack-in-the-box Bin Laden. What does it mean? a) that the majority relies solely on the MSM for its information and they are servants of the monied elite which is rabidly republican. b) The public perceives no significant difference between the political parties which may explain why 100 million never bothered to vote.
To me this is a watershed moment for all progressives.
1) we MUST NOT GIVE UP until we expose the corruption plaguing the system and prove that we care passionately about the ballot.
2) That we purge the DNC of its back-room, back-deal brahmins who prefer the easy comfort of corporate swag to the interests of their grassroot constituents. We must stop thinking like nice little Democrats and start thinking like progessive Americans ready to be seen as hard-nosed, bare-knuckled political fighters.

through voting machines being diverted from black neighborhoods to white neighborhoods of Franklin County by Republican Matt Damschroeder.
http://www.freepress.org/columns/display/3/2004/983

E S & S touchscreens definitely showed Bush on the confirmation screen when some voters chose Kerry.

Whether or not there was secretive vote-fraud, in addition, has yet to be determined.

However, the above two issues make the election illegitimate and unconstitutional, in violation of the Equal Protection of the Law.

, like a Social Security computer check printing routine so that in addition to printing the check, it will also print the message, fight the stolen election.

Yeah, some days it's hard to do...especially on days when you talk to people (even Dems) who either say "let it go, * won" or else they haven't even heard of any problems with the election, but...

"We know we will win, for we are confident in the victory of good over evil" - Selassie I

this is a pitifull attempt to destract you from more important information" ?????

I mean, our Democratic Party is very concerned about election FRAUD-in Ukraine.
:wtf:

is no one's problem but your own. and i think we all get the point about how you feel right now, why do you see the need to repeat it over and over and over when you know you aren't going to change how anyone else feels?

how you feel?
One would think I have no more and no less rights than you are?
:spank:

from as much sense as i can make out of that last sentence.....i usually say i what i feel once or twice (other than one specific ongoing thread) in one thread, usually when asked, and then i'm done. if you are so fed up and 'through with' and have given up on your leader or your party, then just let it be.

If so, please put me on ignore. If not, don't read my posts-nobody is forcing you to read my posts, after all.
:spank:

thanks for reminding me. you can join malatesta on that list.

LOL

NGU.

If people people didn't stand up and shout when we saw things were morally wrong, then women would not have the vote, segregation would still be legal, (although it's clear we have a long way to go here - especially as we learned once again on Nov. 2), Nixon would have finished out his term, we'd have remained in Viet Nam for much longer, the Berlin Wall would still be up, apartheid would still rule South Africa, etc. It's because of people like us who DEMAND JUSTICE and are not afraid to fight for the rights of everyone, that change happens.

Look we know what happened on November 2nd and it is up to us to make sure that the world knows. For those of you who are losing faith or hope-- SNAP OUT OF IT --- NOW. We need everyone with full intention here and we need to support each other because this is not going to be easy.

Here's what I do when I find myself surrounded by those who think I'm crazy (which happens to me quite often by the way) or when I get into a "what's the point of doing anything" mood...

I start up a conversation with a stranger that I believe (instinctively) voted for Kerry. I start by asking how they felt about the election and whether they believe that Bush won fair and square. Usually they are not sure- most say that the feel like something "went wrong" but they are just not sure. That's my cue to start suggesting things to consider (the exit poll "mystery", what it means to vote into electronic machines with no verifiable paper trail, what would make people wait in lines for hours just to vote (hint- it's not because they are homophobic- it's because they wanted CHANGE), the amount of new voters and surge of young voters, etc. Soon, they are begging me for information about how they can learn more and 9 times out of 10, they are so relieved, grateful, hopeful and excited about getting involved, any possibility of my feeling apathetic is long gone.

PEOPLE WANT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS and sharing what we know, helps us all. We can do this- even if it means one person at a time!

Remember also that WE ARE THE MORAL MAJORITY. Know that more people voted for Kerry then voted for Bush. You've not only got to believe this- you need to know this - from deep inside.

I have several people around me who were not only huge Kerry supporters, "get Bush OUT" people, but who have also been widely open-minded about corruption in our government (some of these people have recommended some of the best books to me). I grew up in a house where both my parents believed there wasn't just one guy who shot JFK.

That said, a great number of these same people, family and friends alike, are not receptive to the notion of fraud in the election... OR... more commonly, that if it IS there, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Now, I agree with you whole-heartedly. I educate myself, I look at all sides, and I'm more than willing to stir the pot and get the conversations going. But let me say, I have NOT found people receptive to listen to allegations of election fraud. They either have the "move on and we need to get over it" mentality, or they are just flat-out overwhelmed by the notion of corruptions at such pervasive levels.

When I do find the rare person with an open ear to the notion, probably 75% of the time their interest wanes the minute the conversation is over.

It doesn't mean I'll lose hope or stop sharing the info. It just means I DO believe this is an uphill battle...

...Up Mount Everest.

Believe me, Amy, I know how hard it is. I get many of the same reactions you've been getting. Just went through 2 days of it with family here for the holidays. Strangers by the way, are more receptive I've learned overall then friends and family.
Wha I've come to learn is that part of the reason it's so difficult for people to "jump on board" with us, is that what we are talking about is HUGE- and for many, it is overwhelming.

But you might find that by presenting just few facts-- exit poll statistics, the millions who were disenfranchised, the lockdown on the Ohio precinct being a fraud, voting into machines manufactured by GOP corporations who will not allow a paper trail or verifiable audit, the 8 Congress persons who have petitioned the GAO with a letter stating 57,000 incidents of voter irregularities, etc.- my experience is that facts can inspire additional interest.

Hope this link works- if not look for the post by Mike Lewis about the Spiral and about why we need to take action now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x81767


Don't give up and don't let down- WE CAN DO THIS!

"But you might find that by presenting just few facts-- exit poll statistics, the millions who were disenfranchised, the lockdown on the Ohio precinct being a fraud, voting into machines manufactured by GOP corporations who will not allow a paper trail or verifiable audit, the 8 Congress persons who have petitioned the GAO with a letter stating 57,000 incidents of voter irregularities, etc.- my experience is that facts can inspire additional interest."

The angle I've taken is to bring up issues relavent to the person. For example, a relative of mine is a computer networking guy -- so with him I talk about the fact that there's no accountability, no audit. The code itself. He GETS that. It's interesting to him. He can understand it and his mouth gapes open.

With another relative I talk about the disenfranchisement of voters. Married to a minority and truly compassion about equal rights, she GETS that. It makes her angry enough to think about it, and discuss it with others.

I think one of the biggest problems is that not enough of my family and friends are computer savvy enough to follow fast moving forums or tangled webs of information -- like at BBV. While I love the BBV site, I don't think it cators at all to the computer novice, and that's a LOT of people who only understand how to use about 10% of what their computer is capable of. Few of them will find their way to alternative news sources easily. Few of them will stay connected to DU or BBV on their own (though they'll follow links sent to them, they won't quite have the inclination to follow-up by themselves).

I keep plugging away, so no worries. I'm in the "maybe" crowd myself (for the poll), but I try to remain hopeful. I am afraid for this country, and for my children, enough to stick with it.

but that faith is now waning as are the days for kerry and co to do something about this election fruad...

its becoming more and more remote...the opp to expose it.

who the fuck knows whats going on...we are all simply guessing what they have in mind at this point.

I have moments when I feel discouraged, when I feel like it is taking so long for this to drip, drip, drip through the media and into people's awareness, when I wish SOMEBODY would do SOMETHING right now, and I get angry at everyone who hasn't (myself included, of course). But then I get up from the computer, take a walk, and get perspective back.

I suspected something would happen long before the election. After all of the shenanigans of 2000, I didn't believe that * would leave something as important as his coronation -- sorry, I mean his re-election -- to chance (or even voters). But I had still hoped that the turnout would prevent it.

I remember at watching the election results at some point in the early morning of Nov. 3rd, that twisted feeling in my gut just knowing that "the fix was in." The thing is, at that time, I thought the truth would eventually come out, but I expected that it would take maybe 10 or 20 years.

I was amazed when I found DU about 2 days later, because the truth was already coming to the surface. There is already a long list of individual instances of "irregularities," "glitches," suppression, and other shenanigans. An overall pattern may well emerge when someone decides to connect the dots.

Whenever I feel discouraged, because it seems like things aren't moving fast enough or because a promising piece of information turns out to be a dead end, I just remember that this is already happening much faster than I originally thought it would.