Why didn't Kerry fight for Florida? There was tons of evidence of fraud

According to an analysis of the UC Berkely report, he won Florida by more than 19,000 votes and that doesn't include other fraud, which would make his totals higher. If Kerry had demanded a recount in Florida, it would all be over and he would be President. If this is part of his plan, it's a plan to help Bush. BTY, it's over. The deadline for the recount in Florida has passed. Our hopes are now based on overturning the electoral college decision when Congress re-convenes in January as the Ohio recount will be too late to change the results of the electoral college. THANKS KERRY. WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?

to bring down Bush, not to win the election. Watergate took time, this will take time. In the end Kerry will be triumphant. First he has to let the evidence for fraud accumulate. If he jumps the gun he will be played like a whiner.

aWoL :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
Kerry wants to brind down Bush, but not win the election?
And how is he going to do that, kill him with kindness?

why do you bother posting in this forum?

But how are we going to accomplish it? The congress and senate are both Republicans, which insures Bush can not be impeached.
If we couldn't accomplish anything after 2000, what makes anyone think we can accomplish it now?

I cant believe Kerry is so gulible ,that he believes ,that the Dems are going to be able to change anything ,while the extreme right has the majority ? Someone told me they heard Kerry in a post election statement, say that he would continue to work in the senate to make positive change :eyes: Knowing that bush dissed a whole state (Ca.) for not voting for him , what makes him think anything other then they are going to put a muzzel on him ,for things he said about their great leader while running for President ! Its now or never Mr. Kerry :mad:

And it won't just be Bush, but the entire Republican party's method of operation which will be indicted.

"And it won't just be Bush, but the entire Republican party's method of operation which will be indicted."

I like what you said. That is my fervent desire. (Boy! Have I changed - or at least my desires have!)

My first post here, but I've been reading a long time...

Welcome to DU!!!

Thanks for posting, and I agree with you.

The day of reckoning will be a beautiful day for America.


:yourock:

and all I have to say is, "Oh Happy Day!"

Frankly, we need a cleaner government. But if it's true that all politics is local, it means what's happening at the federal level is also happening in your backyard. This has interesting implications.

Welcome aboard... I'm new too!

If they brought down Bush in a similar manner it might give us Cheney. Do we really want that? :crazy:

I bet his heart would give out.


Goodbye … Cheney
Cashin' in your chips
Wild-eyed Cheney
Time you came to grips
There ain't … no doubt …
Strike three … you're out …
Goodbye … Cheney
Goodbye!

that means we could end up with Hassert, who I don't believe is fit to be President but neither is George Bush.

The GOP today controls congress and the media. In 1973-4, dems controlled both houses of congress and the media had a lib bias.

Believe the strategy to be Ohio based, where there is not a brother but a stupid Blackwell, who doesn't can't figure out how to cover up the cheaters and the cheating that went on Nov. 2, 2004.

stupid stupid Blackwell, he cheated and didn't even know how to cover up his tracks. i do have a feeling he is not going to get away with what he's done.

5% is a lot of votes.

Also... the Berkley report only made up around half of the difference and was based solely on pressumptions... not facts.

We would have to come in with actual examples of tens of thousands of fraudulent votes (like whay Bev Harris is working on) to make a difference here... not numerical guesses.

As we saw with the Ohio provissional ballots... you can make statistics say whatever you want them to say (Kerry will catch up 100k votes). The facts are not always the same (over half are now counted and there is no net change).

Very Republican (maybe is just me).

(Just you, that is).

If somebody decides to posit a theory toorrow that Kerry actually won Texas, must I jump on tha bandwagon and look foolish in order to "sound like a Democrat"?

Too many of us "sounding" like that and we've got a problem.

Kerry wins, under the UC Berkely Report, by 19,000 plus. You are only doing have of the work if you come up with a Bush win.

I can't find anything like that.


Mike Byron? Is that the guy who last almost 2-1 in California? What are his qualifications to say that? Olberman was off by almost 100% (so far), why are this guy's statistics at all more reliable?

If you contact him, I'm sure he'll send you a graph.

Not sure KERRY is the person DU'rs are wondering the "what side is he on" argument about right now...

:toast:

Trust that fragile, is Trust never worth having had to begin with.

I'm sure Kerry had (and has) faith in those that TRULY trust in him.

And Mr. Kerry, Please be assured, WE ARE STILL HERE!

:yourock:

This one one of the reasons he was my second choice.

John, Please know that your TRUE supporters are still behind you 100%. We believe in what you fought for, We believe what you taught us, We believe in your message: We Believe In You.

Please also know that you have millions and millions of REAL supporters, all of which would never be so fickle.

...I do recall him saying that he wouldn't "give up" until every vote was counted.

As we all know by now, and if we don't then we should, that concession speeches are worthless; they're nothing more than "courtesies" and are not legally binding.

Let's remember that.

Kerry is a Prosecutor; an attorney that sees things like an attorney does, and also a diehard Vietnam Vet hero who braved heavy enemy fire, and own safety in order to go back, and save a fellow swiftboatsman, Special Ops Russman.

John F. Kerry is the same man who headed the tenacious investigation of BCCI in the 90's, and took them down even when fellow Democrats and ALL Republicans were fighting him hard to stop.

Let's keep that in mind when we feel restless, and impatient, and confused about the silence from their side.

There is such a thing as "Calm before the Storm", and hasn't JFK proven this time and again, from his first failed run as congressman as a young man, to becoming the assistant AG in Massachussetts, to running last and quietly in the Democratic primaries, to ultimately winning handedly the three debates, to winning this election?

Isn't it obvious? He was the Skull and Bones, Military Industrial Complex patsy who had planned on losing all along. He was a lying scumbag who was chosen to let W win no matter what. I knew it the second he started winning primaries, I knew it all through the campaign, I knew it the minute he conceded before all the votes were counted.

He never planned on winning. The best I can say about that fuckwad is that he probably had a gun to his head the whole time...

The natives are getting restless, could somebody be onto something?

:dunce:

but that sounds like outright slander.

now i have to ask, what side are YOU on?

:tinfoilhat:

?????

.

It's so obvious when he conceded before the votes were counted and disappeared. This is leading from a leader? I don't think so.

With all the apparent election fraud found in Ohio and Florida and other places and not a peep from him. Yep, a sign of a great leader.:eyes:

Does that not seem odd to you???

Riddle me this...

Could it be that the entire world has gone INSANE, or could there be another explanation?

it is much more interesting to look at who is not saying anything: Sharpton, Jesse (ok, finally), Congressional Black Caucus, Michael Moore, John Kerry, John Edwards, Ted Kennedy, Al Gore and Bill & Hillary Clinton.

These are not wallflowers. I can't believe that they have suddenly forgotten about something that they've fought for their entire lives.
Maybe it's just me...

Our problem here is we're between two possibilities:

1) There's a grand plan at work.
2) There's no grand plan at work.

If the correct answer is one, then we're going to be the last to know.
If the correct answer is two, we're pissed. And why the hell wasn't there a grand plan at work?

"There comes a time when silence is betrayal" - Martin Luther King Jr.

Silence speaks louder than words.

the info Bev Harris has. I'd like to know your or someone's view on this. I'm looking for something positive. Otherwise I have to think of what is really going on here. If Kerry don't come out soon or not at all. What will you and other's then think?

http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4534

"BlackBoxVoting’s Bev Harris found the smoking gun, proof of fraud and the Kerry camp does not care. According to a statement by the Supervisor of Elections on November 17, 2004, the GEMS computer is not networked, and is "stand alone."

"The furnished computer logs show evidence of at least two attempts to remotely access the GEMS central tabulator, which is claimed to be secure. A computer screen shot printout on November 17, 2004 (found in the trash) shows that the GEMS computer at that time had two networked hard drives".

that is just one of a supposed amount of 17,000 lawyers. i highly doubt we can conclude that his statement directly reflects John Kerry's.

who speaks for JK or JK himself.

I don't agree with it, but here's what happened(I think)

The election was close, the majority or the most persuasive of the top democratic politicos and their lawyers decided it was too close to make a fight over-- because--- they did not want to DIVIDE the country further and cause an upheaval, civil unrest, protracted court battles possibly,--country at war,- blah blah terrorism blah

so it could be argued that Kerry did the patriotic thing - I've heard others say this type of thing.

Its not my kind of patriotism, but there it is

...is not patriotic. The Bush regime is anti-American, supporting them is anti-American. If it is destiny for this nation to be divided into those that believe in Truth and Reality and those that long for Lies and War and Faith-based Fantasy, so be it.

perhaps he is investigating all of this.
I imagine people already know about this but its a reminder who Kerry is and what he has done in the past. As others have suggested he could be working behind the scenes quietly
 
Published in the September, 2004 issue of the
Follow the Money: How John Kerry Busted the Terrorists' Favorite Bank
by David Sirota and Jonathan Baskin
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0820-04.htm

Remember, genius, the nazipoos control the mass media, and lie without restraint....kerry (us) must take media into account, and not fall into any predetermined traps the nazipoos set.....
if, otoh you're right and kerry's a bushevik operator of some kind then we're really back where we started...only now fully half the american people at least know bush isn't legit...before the election only those committed enemies of the repuke/gop/kakaka/rnc and cbs/abc/nbc/pbs/fox/ap/yahoo news/nytimes etc ie: the mediawhore knew for a fact bush was a fraud foisted on a gullible public....
it aint gonna be easy....

The American people view the Iraq war through rose colored glasses. if Kerry is president when they realize the reality of the situation, the republicans will blame the sudden change of affairs on the Democrats.

It is my opinion that if Kerry did in fact give up, it is like playing hot potato with a ticking time bomb.

At least if Bush remains president, he will not have any one to blame but himself when the $#!+ hits the fan. and make no mistake, the $#!+ is traveling at warp speed in the direction of the massive industrial sized fully powered turbine, and when they do meet, there will not be a shadow of a doubt whose Butt it came out of.

A lot of bad stuff to attack in this tarbaby, but in the end there is LESS to work with than Gore had and the recounts did not give Gore the big edge he thought was there. Now all those avenues are even more firmly blocked. Remember they refused to recount scanned ballots and simply passed them through again. Florida is a bear trap and Jeb is Joe Stalin.

The state should have been attacked AFTER victory for multiple violations
that rendered the vote illegitimate. To try and "win" the presidency via Florida is not very likely to be a fair chance.

It might be intriguing instead to cobble together some states outside of Ohio, but that just becomes a quilted Florida situation.

I had HOPED the Kerry would be somehow ahead, not behind on these issues. This is very puzzling to me as they must have known the very posture tokens easy defeat or a painful wrangle to certain defeat. I can't believe that knowing Bush WOULD cheat(and WAS) they wouldn't have been better prepared other than relying on GOTV which Rove had countered with a showy countermeasure, large enough at least for the pretexts of propaganda- and the successfully gamed media and poll perceptions.

I still hope that they were not as incompetent and devoid of imagination as most Dems were prior to 2004. Instead I see the work that COULD have been done in the past, hurriedly pieced together now by countless individuals and small groups with little hope also of getting anything other than unlistened to information.

In dismay I had pointed out to a Bev posting more than once that not enough had been done to stop paperless BBV in time. California and even Ohio were major successes, which is why there is a "mess" in Ohio today instead of a lights out America silence. But the Dems walked down the dark alley whistling, money dangling out of pockets, blindfolded- and proudly confident.

It is not feasible that no one in the DNC understood those machines were a buzzsaw waiting to tear them to bits in Jeb's world. Jimmy Carter said as much himself. So we are left with only two alternatives: either Kerry is playing a very deep strategic game that will expose the tampering or the people have been sold down the river in which case its time to either purge the Democratic party or forge an alliance with the progressive wing and the Naderites.

When Kerry returns to center stage again, all hell will be breaking loose.

Jessie Jackson just made the 1st move and is calling for a protest on Sunday in Ohio. Let the fun begin.

and take notes.

I believe a lot of what is going in Ukraine is sponsored by the US.

They would have turned Kerry into a Gore. We wouldn't have known about the bigger problems either. Overturning the election isn't the focus. Making sure we have a safe election in 2006 and 2008 is. Right now we are exposing what is wrong with the machines and creating a safer system. This fight is bigger then just Kerry because it is a fight for democracy itself.

As of Wednesday, November 3rd, the issue wasn't Florida at all, it was the 155,000 vote difference and the 180,000+ provisional votes in Ohio. (I happen to live in Ohio, btw).

And, at the point when it came to only the provisional ballots in Ohio being the "clincher" of what would determine the outcome of the election, and that only 180,000 of these were gathered, and the probability that Kerry would NOT get every vote (though possibly a high percentage), I can see why he conceded on the 3rd of November. I don’t think that much would have been accomplishes by a forced recount of a couple of Ohio counties that would then be Halted by the Republican Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell (who had his own "tactics" of voter suppression in less than a month before the election, and is a clone of Katherine Harris), which would then be determined by the Supreme court (and we all know where that went before....)

You may not agree, and I'm not necessarily saying that I agree with the concession -- though I think, given the information Kerry had at the time, and the crazy things Blackwell legally pulled prior to the election, I can say I understand it.

See: here for one (of many) instances coming to light.
http://www.portlandphoenix.com/features/other_stories/multi1/documents/04258174.asp

While there may have been murmurings even after the first night about exit poll differences, and disenfranchisement, Kerry *didn't* have proof that counting any particular county in Ohio would have benefited him, short of calling a statewide recount. And, I tend to agree with this article ( http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm
), I think he avoided some political booby traps, and while he's irked some people with his silence, I think he probably confused the hell out of the Republicans. Which means that they would have to quickly think of another strategy.

Think back to 2000 and how Gore was treated during the whole recount fiasco. It was political suicide. Perhaps this stance is too? To be aligned with the "bloggers" and "conspiracy theorists" that the Mainstream Media calls all of us who are questioning things that happened in the election. If he stood up with the bloggers, holding up the Florida charts showing the discrepancies in the counties with electronic voting .vs normal punch card counties do you think people would suddenly look seriously into the allegations? Why would they if they haven’t already? If he held up statistical data from the last 4 elections about exit poll results, do you think people would suddenly get a clue? No, it’s already been said that exit polls are not to be taken at face value (although, ironically, exit poll results are the reason that the US is supporting the fraud allegations in the Ukraine -- *cough*). Mainstream Media in the same breath said that it looked like exit poll results stated that Moral Values was the deciding factor in "going for Bush", but -- then Mainstream Media would say -- (again, sometimes in the same report), that the reason why the polls were so skewed is because Republicans didn't participate in the Exit Polls. ???

I personally don't think that Kerry could do anything by not conceding in the first place, or demanding a "recount of Ohio" except dig his own grave. I tend to think that he has a strategy that he isn't letting others know about -- although I admit, it might be wishful thinking. but I do believe he is a hell of a lot smarter than our present administration. People are so pissed over the $$ he had left over, but I will patiently wait to see how this plays out before I make a judgement over it.

As for the investigations going on now in other states, if there is fraud involved... there should be accountability -- and punishment. And I truly think there will be. It might not overturn the election –or it might be hot enough to stoke the fires for recounts before the electoral votes are turned in. But, nothing will happen until there is extremely hard evidence to blame one party of fraud (which is more likely a few choice groups within the Republican party – since none of the “overvotes” went to Kerry, and most of the other “glitches” favored Bush as well).

tracy

I wish we could sit down and have a beer or something like that together. Beating on Kerry is not going to fix this. Politicians like Kerry need people to push the issues right now. This is our country and he is just one man who still has a seat in the senate at this point.

Besides showing up at the poll, what did "we the people" really do over the past four years to stop any potential "election fraud" in this country from happening again? I know that my state went merrily on its blind way as our SOS jumped on Bush's band wagon and outfitted the rest of our state with Sequoias ...the state party tried to complain but it wasn't heard by anyone who "trusted" government ...now it is too late for Nevada unless we want to throw away million in brand new e machines ...I am for that but the tight asses in this state will milk that waste for all it's worth.

...had Diebold sign a written agreement as part of the settlement that they would ensure paper receipts on ALL their voting machines from that time forward.

California's Democratic Attorney General set a precedent for future State Attorney Generals to use to force all e-voting machine manufacturers to include paper receipts on all their voting machines.

It was also Bill Lockyer who sued Enron, Duke, and other energy providers for billions, for gouging Californians in the manipulated energy crisis that began in late 2000, and early 2001. Many have settled, no thanks to Bush's friends in the FERC that do the Republican thing, and drag their friggin feet!

See what good comes from Democratic Attorney Generals? Look at Eliot Spitzer from New York, who went after corrupt insurance companies, and took them down, and who is now investigating the complaints by Mr. Madsen, and the 9/11 watchdog groups regarding their evidence from over 15 former FBI, and CIA agents that Americans were part of the 9/11 attacks that include powerful people from both sides of the political aisle!

It takes a democrat to do the right thing.

Ask Bill Clinton, who allowed an independent counsel to investigate the Whitewater case that never was.

Or, maybe don't. He still blames himself for believing that Republicans would play fair, but one can't dispute the fact, that he, as a Democrat, tried to do the right thing back then. Little did he know, that Republicans don't play fair in any game, and to this day, and according to himself as I've seen on the DVD of "The Hunting of the President" by, among others, Joe Conason, Clinton is SO SO sorry he ever was that naive.

in contesting the election

...I doubt he'd be able to convince Dianne Feinstein. She's truly a Republican-Lite Democratic Senator.

However, the third biggest "vote-getter" in the 2004 Election, Madam Barbara Boxer, is an ultra liberal (my favorite Senator!), and if anyone is willing to stand by the Democratic House Reps in order to contest this rigged election, it would be she.

Besides, we only need ONE Senator to contest the election results, but then the decision would be turned over to Congress, and with the Republicans having stolen their seats, with much of the help of "Hammer" De-liar, that path is surely a losing one, other than to cast a shadow on Bush's second term, but that again, won't help much since he'd lost the popular, and--later we find out--the electoral votes in 2000 yet that couldn't stop him from bullying through all his taxcuts, the war in Iraq, and stupid attempts to amend the Constitution regarding the gay-marriage issue.

Then again, should Kerry do what a lot of us Democrats and Liberals believe he is doing behind the scenes, then I would guess that contesting the election would have a more significant impact.

blast" list that someone posted under the 04 election forum. I shouldn't say "someone". I am very grateful. They put a lot of work into the list of emails. Unfortunately, when you try to do the mass mailing, a lot of the addresses are incorrect and come back or you get an automatic response asking you to go to their website and use the "form", which I have done.

I know we only need one senator, but I am asking all of them and sending the request to everyone I know from FL to Seattle that feels the way we do.:kick:

and they may not want to end up another "marked target" like Daschele <--------spelling, if they do stand up and we lose.

You people act as if there are two parties in this country. You don't really believe that crap, do you? THERE'S ONE FRIKKIN' PARTY IN THIS COUNTRY!!! There's the pro-life faction of the money party and the pro-choice faction of the money party. Or the War Party. The Global Corporate Socialist faction and the Global Corporate Fascist faction. IT'S A ONE PARTY SYSTEM!! With two big factions. (and lots of small ones. and a couple of other parties that don't mean much.)

That's the first thing you need to understand. The second thing you need to understand is that the Global Corporate Socialists are going to let the Global Corporate Fascists walk all over them every time, and they're NOT going to rock the boat too much. That's why they've been silent.

Look, the first time Kerry went out there talking about how much he was going to kill terrorists, kill, kill, kill, kill them more than Bush, he let UBL go, I would have killed him... it was obvious that he was on the team. Was that what you folks really wanted? A "liberal" who was gonna kill, kill, kill?

Sheesh!

Widespread voter suppression of minority voters in Florida, irregularities, and indications of fraud

Documentation at www.flcv.com/flavi04.html
www.flcv.com/fla04EAS.html

I've been doing an analysis of the Florida election data comparing 2004 results for President to the 2000 results and also to the increase in registration for Dems and Repubs between 2000 and
2004.
The concern about the small optical scan counties appears to be mostly minor as long as one assumes that the 2000 results were accurate. The small Northern Florida counties vote results
looked similar in 2000. Of course most of the results for 2000 were not subjected to a hand count verification and some questioned them at the time.
But there are some big unusual patterns in the big touchscreen counties and a few of the big optical scan counties. They had a big Repub vote swing that was not consistent with the 2000
vote and the Dem and Repub registration increases between 2000 and 2004.
The data and analysis can be found at: www.flcv.com/fla04EA.html
The touchscreen counties with unusual Republican vote increases include: Broward, Hillsboro,
Indian River, Lake, Martin, Palm Beach, Pinellas, Sarasota. I don't know whether the
provisional ballots were included in the data I used or the extent that they were, so this could be
a smaller issue. Charlotte, Lee, Miami-Dade also had similar patterns but to a somewhat lesser
degree.
Additionally among the Optical scan counties there were also similar patterns: Bay, Brevard,
Manatee, Orange, Osceola, Polk. Citrus, Escambia, Hernando, Marion, Seminole, and
St Lucie also had similar pattern but to lesser degree.
The only explanations for this pattern other than irregularities would be that the Repubs hugely
beat the Dems in get out the vote or a lot more Dems voted for Bush in 2004 than in 2000. I
haven’t confirmed that either of those happened. I heard the Dems thought they had a record get
out the vote effort in Florida.

The data I used came from :
http://ustogether.org/Florida_Election.htm
http://election.dos.state.fl.us/voterreg/index.shtml
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/
http://www.floridacountiesmap.com/counties_list.shtml

he gave-up a little too fast for me, while Edwards seemed total opposite. Couldn't you see sometihng strange in his eyes... of course, it might have been tears. Then again, he got to keep all the money so where is he you might ask. I say he saved his own neck and left us in the dark and while we're at it, where are any of the Democrat leaders for us? How about some national healing or talking to the entire country (blue and south) from Bushit! And to think he's our President. With liberty, and Justice for all reds.

Darkness comes to those who do not seek the light! So seek the light!
Join in with throngs making personalized requests for media alerts from CNN with key word selection of "Ohio Recount" "Ohio Election"
"Ohio Vote Suppression". Do it now if possible CNN.com Share the light! The spotlight in OHIO!

Whys and hows of the election only useful if people are doing something about the situation now. It might be helpful to see the Bush victory as an opportunity to discredit not only the neocons but the appeasers in the Democratic party - for a long time.

If Kerry'd been allowed to take office I'm sure Chaney (or minion) would have been elected next time around, what with a republican congress and neocon sniping. Forget about whether Kerry's heart was really in the right place to begin with. The continuation of Bush's presidency and especially Rice's appointment as Sec. of State gives them time to show how truly, madly, deeply incompetent they are, and to start seriously arguing amongst themselves. Now that they're getting rid of the 'outsiders' like Powell and the recently ejected CIA people with a sane - if corrupt - view of things, the neocons will have only themselves to argue with. We on the left should know that no one can be so vicious as your closest comrade...

I hope election fraud in the US will become an overground issue, especially now that the Ukraine looks likely to vote again. The world is sick of the spectacle of the US telling everyone else how to run their countries while being unable themselves to run their own democracy. I long for a media that would run with it. But I'm not hopeful.