Do you think Kerry might have been threatened?

He was warned that the BBV situation would make it look as if Bush won when he had lost. He had promised supporters he not to concede in that situation. When he conceded, he went back on his promise. Kerry's actions even seemed to stun Edwards. It was as if something fishy happened. Clearly none of us know what happened to change Kerry's mind or if Kerry was just weak. The question is whether you are also suspicious that he was threatened.

i do worry about his safety right now, and especially if he does end up winning the Election.

inaugurated - that's assuming Reagan didn't break it by surviving of course

:shrug:

that said, I still think he is trying to fly under the radar

the need to code what he was saying but to do it in such a semi obvious manner to those of us who understood what he was hinting at.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x81998

when he has the internet and the media available to him to spread the word, he isn't the individual that I thought he was.

his interview with an MA news reporter.....the video he sent out to his supporters...all ONLINE.

Like every other democrat I have seen in the last coulple of weeks taht that has suddenly taken to wearing a muzzle.

These are people who come to the process with a lifetime of knowledge that they could possibly suffer the Fate of JFKennedy, or Bobby Kennedy or MLK or Paul Wellstone.

Personal risk has not detered them in the past, and I don't think the risk of smear and name calling could deter them now, these people EXPECT to be assailed and EXPECT to defend themselves through speech.

For I always thought that Anthrax is how it all began. Sure there was 9/11, but it was ANTHRAX that freaked everyone out. Even me, I didn't worry about a plane pulling a stunt again, but I microwaved my mail for Christ's sake!!! And I wasn't the only one.

And look how Anthrax was planted in Congress--in Daschle's office. The leader of the Senate minority. What a good way to get all the Dems to cave. Not to mention that the offices were under a "lock-down". The files and computers could have been raided and damaging materials could have been gotten on all of the Dems during the lock-down. Blackmail and the threat of Anthrax.

I like this scenario a lot better than all of them being "wimps".

Besides, did you see the way Teresa was clinging to Kerry after the concession speech? Looked more like fear than defeat to me...

in this day and age have to accept that they will get real and credible threats against them and their families?

Isn't this just a part of the package?

Maybe it's just Skull and Bones?

that have gotten death threats for speaking out against the war. I've also heard just about every democrat radio personality mention death threats they've received. Look at Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins when they spoke out against the war both they and their relatives received numerous death threats and harassment.

I have no idea if high profile Republicans receive the same amount of threats but if they are I haven't heard them say it.

instead of the Rove-speak "democrat radio personality" please use our own (correct English) language: "Democratic radio personality". These little things are how the enemy has taken over the language of the debate. It's very "1984 Newspeak".

Yeah o.k. I'll get right on that.

The reason I am a democrat is because I believe in free speech and not being told what to say. Maybe I like 1984 newspeak and as a fellow democrat I would think you would respect that.

Your going to be a busy little beaver if you spend all of your time correcting everyone's grammar on here.

1984 Newspeak was, it was before my time. But now that you annoyed me with your post I looked it up and I think I'll look into Orwell's book.

So thanks for annoying me! You just never know when synchronicity will happen.

And all I can say is, IF 55 million plus americans stood behind me, I would not let a threat stop me in my tracks. With 55 million people behind me, I think I would feel as if I OWED it to those people to stand up and be honest and open and direct -- sort of like feeling like because I became an instrument of the people, that my safety, my life was secondary to the greater cause. Easy for me to say, sure. But if I just checked my idealism in the closet... what would I expect to happen to those 55 million.

And john kerry never struck me as a coward. But I can't help but conclude that he may very well be the all-time greatest coward in the world. And what would teresa be doing with a man like that?

None of it makes sense. But him hiding under a rock since he conceded? there is just no way I can have respect for the man.

I think this place can become a bit too much of a bubble at times. He might be scared, but I doubt it and even if he was we wouldn't know why, who of, and what the danger is. I really don't think we have enough information about anything to make judgments. Of course the most obvious answer would be that he just genuinely thinks there's either nothing in this election fraud , or that there's absolutely nothing he can do to prove it at this stage so wants to just do on being a senator for now, either way I don't think it's condemnable, but if the above were the case I really think he would have a duty to get involved in the recount in Ohio, at least legally - to make sure that the result there counts.

Something happened to change his mind in a hurry. I cannot believe that this guy would campaign for 2 years and put himself through this process and then concede Ohio and Florida without a fight.

Something happened that changed his mind.....I can only hope that he's working behind the scenes and gathering the evidence to bust this whole thing wide open. If he isn't, I think he needs to come clean with what happened. Maybe we'll find out when Congress reconvenes.

received numerous threats throughout his public career. That is just part of public life. To my knowledge, he has never wavered in his fight for what he believes in. He has gone up against very powerful interests in the past.

The fact is, we have no idea what John Kerry is or is not doing at this point. We have no idea what he will or will not do in the next several years. As many have stated, this scandal is much larger than John Kerry, and has been building for many years.

As for the nearly absolute silence of all of our leaders in the face of massive known voter disenfranchisement, the silence speaks louder than words. Is it due to threats and the Patriot Act? I don't think so.

I personally believe it is all about timing. Nothing can be done until the Ohio vote is certified. The American people have a very short attention span, but it is easy to grab their attention with a spectacular story. I expect that if the Democrats intend to fight, and I believe they do, the evidence will come out in a massive blitz sometime around Dec 1-6.

by a threat about his family is, at least in my mind, not very brave. I can see an average individual fearing for her/his family and deciding to cower. A person who makes it as the nominee, however, should understand that there are risks associated with that position. She/he has, by accepting the nomination, taken an oath to the party to defend it. There are lots of examples of individuals who stood up to power even when it threatened their selves and families. In my opinion, anybody who thinks that Kerry has been shut up because of a threat to his family holds Kerry in very low esteem.

Personally, I think that Kerry is plenty brave. I think he just decided the fight wasn't worth it.

doesn't want to ruffle feathers. Wants to keep his prestige in the Senate and try again in 2008?

But what about Edwards, he is a very good looking, smooth talking, junk-yard dog trail lawyer. He has no political career to protect. OK - but maybe Kerry told him to shut his yap. He was only going to be the VP anyway.

But why isn't Dean saying anything? He had the balls to say the Iraq war was wrong when the rest of the Democrats thought it was essential to their being "strong on defense." If he had the sense to speak out against the Iraq war, why would he keep quiet now? Maybe it is becasue he doesn't want to jeopardize his DNC position?

But why is Michael Moore being quiet? He had to have balls of steel to put out the 9/11 movie right before the election, then go to the Republican Convention and call them losers. I can't see him keeping quiet! Maybe he is just tired of being called a nut?

But what about Al Franken? Wouldn't this give him a lot to talk about on the radio and increase his ratings? Maybe he, like CNN, has decided it would be better to have a more Faux Lite program?

Maybe it is because the entire fraud issue is just too nutty to take seriously. But Zogby said there are real issues being raised by very smart people.

Maybe someone at the Kerry campaign performed mass castrations on November 2nd? Hey - it could happen!

Or maybe - they are up to something - and for some reason HAVE to keep quiet!!!

I'm betting she's big time pissed if this is the case....

knows what evil lies Rove can make into 'truth?' and his childrens entire lives are ahead of them, and their father just might deem their happiness more important than the Nation's? Who Knows.

Teresa could probably kick the ass of anyone who threatened her. I'd pay to see her kick ass from Pittsburgh to Boston and back.

No more a christian than OBL.

I have thought about this, and it is entirely possible. However, we really have no way of knowing one way or another. I mean, its not as if he would come out and say so -- that's the rotten thing about such a thing as what you polled. Let's just hope that he is flying under the radar and shall come through for us. I will say that if he runs in '08 I may or may not support him depending on whom he runs against. if these election problems are not solved, I will support whomever I deem has the guts to fight it if this happens again in -- ugh! -- four more years.

Kerry has proven his courage and I don't think he was afraid to be in the public, his campaigning proved that. But if it was threats against his family, that's a whole different situation. And this is what scares me about the Republican Party today. I think we know the pervasive disregard they have for the law. Look at DeLay, look at the 9/11 Ommission, look at impeachable offenses that Bush has used to get us into Iraq. I think the Republicans have crossed the threshold into absolute power. They will do anything maintain it. And when they cannot steal an election cleanly, I have no doubts that they would resort to threats of this nature.

If this is the case.....God help this ocuntry.

The hope that we still have heroes like John Kerry that will lead the majority of Americans in a fight to restore our Democracy, the integrity of our voting process, civil rights, and a free press.

or

All hope is lost, and our country is doomed. There is no longer anyone that is willing to take on the powerful corrupt corporate machine. All of our leaders are corrupt and have run for cover.

I choose hope, as foolish as that might seem. I believe that there are heroes, many right here on DU. I believe that when the time is right, there will be millions of Americans that will stand behind those leaders and demand change.

Lyndon Johnson, another Texan..was reported to have been very good at twisting arms, and you can bet your dollar, Bush one had the goods on all.

so i said i'd wondered about that

If Kerry had been threatened, what would be the best way to protect himself & his family? To make sure the info was made public.

Not saying that Kerry would make it public, but he would have ways of getting the info out.

If the threat was made public, nobody would be able to do anything to him....that would be his protection.

Sometimes people look for outlandish answers to questions that are easily answered.

Democrats.

Have you EVER gone a week without hearing from ONE of them?

he said that if kerry got elected the 'terrorists' would hit us again
i'm sure he wouldn't (or won't for those of us who are optimistic about recounts) keep his promise

Throughout history people have sacrificed everything for the freedoms that we have taken for granted. As we all know, John Kerry volunteered to serve as a young man. He felt it was his patriotic duty.

After suffering the loss of good friends, several injuries and disillusionment over the war and our mission, he returned to fight. Is there anyone that believes he and his family were not threatened when it became clear that he was leading one of the most effective campaigns to get our soldiers out of Vietnam?

Look at the Congressional record, do you think he might have been threatened as he began to uncover Iran Contra? How about the BCCI? So, you have a man that has taken on the Bush crime family and the Mob. Now, when the lives of million weigh in the balance, when our Democracy, our environment, and our place in the world is on the brink of disaster, do you honestly believe that this man has returned to the Heinz mansion to disappear?

You can go read some of my earlier post around on other threads and you will see I have argued from day one this man has not just up and quit,he has not just rolled over, and he damn sure hasn't just crawled under a rock and died as so many around want people to believe. That is not John Kerry. John Kerry has always been a fighter this man has never been a quitter in his life. This man has had his back up against the wall more times than you count and he sure as hell didn't just give up and quit. He just came out fighting that much harder. This man has been in several situations where it most likely that he has received threats. Especially the BCCI investigation. I don't know that for sure but there are more chances that he was than not. When he uncovered everything in that investigation it brought people down on both sides of the ailes not just republicans. That in itself also tells me that if for any reason there are democrats involved in this scandal it will not stop him from doing something about it. I think this scandal is alot bigger than what some around here think and it is not something that can be solved overnight or even a couple of weeks. But the BCCI scandal didn't get solved overnight or in a couple weeks either. This man has proven in the past that he will stop at nothing to get to the truth and that is what scares the hell out of Bush and all the repukes. These people wish Kerry would just dissapear or die off. But Kerry is a stronger and smarter man than that and he has always fought for the people of this country and he always will. Yes I feel Bush and the repukes wouldn't stop at anything to put a stop to Kerry but I also feel that Kerry is a stronger and smarter fighter than any of them could ever be. That is why they hate this man the way they do and it didn't just start in the last 20 years either. So I think it is very premature to count this man out of anything. As he has proven so many times in his life and career you don't have to be on the front page of the papers, be in the eyes of the media whore's on their news programs, and make a total a$$ of yourself in front of the American public to be sucessful and accomplish all you set out to do. As this man has proven more than one time in his career that is that keeping things uder wraps till you have all your evidence together and can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that these people are guilty as charged is one of the most positive effective ways to bring justice to all. The American people have far from heard the last of John Kerry. Regardless of what some have to say this man is a true American hero, that honors and loves his country as much as anyone, loves and repects the people in it, and will always fight for those people and what is right for this country. And there is no one that can take that away from this man wether they like him personally or not. I like so many want more than anything for this election to be overturned and still havn't given up hope yet that it will be. But regardless of wether or not it is overturned I truly feel we have the right man on our side to get to the bottom of what has happen and bring to down those involved. This man knows that our democracy is at stake and there is no one that can convince me that he won't fight to save it now as he has always fought for democracy in the past.

That is just about the best synopsis I have read in a long time.

We do have the right man on our side and threat or no threat, he will lead this battle and he will not stop until the truth is found and the criminals are brought to justice.

member-- that's entirely different. It's not inconceivable, given the moral character of the goons in charge.

That is how the enemy operates. John Kerry knows what is at stake, our very Democracy, our freedom, millions of lives. What possible future could he hope to provide for his children and grandchildren if we lose this fight? The time for action is now, and he will not back down from the most important fight of his life.

There are very powerful forces that will stop at nothing to protect and preserve the empire of deception that has been carefully crafted. Now more than ever, we must stand firm and demand that our voices are heard. We made a pledge during the campaign, and I intend to keep that pledge.

Never Give Up, Never Surrender

Even more likely, she thought his kids might have been threatened. I think it is a distinct possibility.

is that I DON'T know everything, and that there has got to be a lot more to the situation than meets the blog, so to speak.

Since we can't really do anything but wait and see, it doesn't hurt to hold out a little hope that things will turn out better than they seem right now.

I know, this whole thing really bites--but the sun still comes up every morning, and there are still things that good people can do for each other. Not trying to be a pollyanna, but I think it is up to each one of us to do what we can in our own lives to make America better, and not just wait for a Democrat in the White House to make it all good.

What doesn't help is people attacking each other for their views--that's the kind of stuff that destroys morale.

i must say i was very angry at kerry at first..then i put my thinking hat back on and worked at doing something instead of just mourning..i think we all need to take a deep breath..i don't for a minute think this is over with...listening to mike malloy and randi rhodes..i have heard them both say over and over..to peoole calling in..what makes you think kerry isn't really behind this recount..malloy has gone so far to say kerry was saying during campaign that he would do the war in iraq alot smarter than bush..what would make us not think he would do a recount and challange to this election alot smarter than bush?? i do remember my mom saying ..give a fool enough rope to hang themselves, and that keeps going through my mind..while bush and rove have been arrogant and self indulgent, kerrys lawyers have been in ohio...silently and i am sure diligently..if kerry had come out right away and challanged, just imagine how the bush people would have gone into overdrive to end this or paint him the way they did gore..they would have " gored" kerry..instead kerry and his people have been able to stay under the radar and do what they need to see the actual results of the ohio counts...remember kerry is the guy who was behind the bcci bank investigations, and the iran contra..kerry has a history with these thugs...think of this as its own war..if there is a there there, kerry will find it..and kerry will break this open like this nation has never seen...if there is no there there..we will never know what kerry did or didnt do...if this is to be overturned..kerry must keep this nation together...so he must seem as presidential as possible..now and if its to be over turned..to have any world or home credibility..kerry is a fighter folks..not a sap like bush..kerry is not a photo opp guy he is a thinker , an intellectual...he was a attorney general, his brother is an attorney m, and edwards is one smart cookie, and an incredible attorney...do you honestly think they will lay their cards out for all to see before they are ready to prove facts..no....they will line up the facts, cross every t and dot every i first...the guy who owns the red sox had a plane ready to go to ohio the second the election was over to take lawyers there...( john henry red sox owner) peter angelos owner of baltimore orioles is world class lawyer..hates bush...i would bet the stars he has top notch lawyers in ohio...we can not and will not know anything until or if there is a there there...no one can go against this bush cabal and be stupid...these are evil people behind the bush bunch...kerry knows that better than we ever could..they take no prisoners...too many who have attempted to out this bush bunch have been suicided or in wierd car wrecks...if there is something uncovered or a fraud caught..kerrys people will find it..the rest by all of us is speculation..do not for a minute think kerry has ridden into the sunset...i would bet the farm that some kind of sting was on..remember...kerry can do nothing until ohio certifies...if his people have found the smoking gun..we wont know it until then, if they didnt find anything we will never hear anything...until they do find it!! kerry will never give that up...remember when kerry was caught on tape saying to a small group of men..these bush people are evil..he knows it much more than we do!! count on that!! and remember arrogant people make mistakes...criminals all make mistakes...i assure you kerrys people are working under the radar looking for and searching out those mistakes!!..its what a prosecuter does...its the way lawyers think...they look for the mistakes!! they are looking and they are fighting behind the scenes...just keep remembering ..kerry does not think like bush..and we have begun to all think like bush..this will not be won thinking like bush...this takes a brilliant man and mind like kerry and the people who surround him to expose. and remember kerry is a fighter, and he is a thinker and he is a very intelligent man...and do remember how many cia guys he could have working for him right now!!

Great synopsis and

Welcome to DU!! :hi:

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

Welcome to DU. Thanks for the thoughtful post.

The one thing we do know is that we don't know. Your hypothesis is as credible as any, and more credible than most.

I look forward to more posts from you.



(hint, hint - a paragraph break once in a while would be a blessing to these tired old eyes. :-) )

on edit - I do think that there is no harm done, however, in people pressuring the party leadership to not cave in and compromise so often and to take a stronger stance to the Bush adminstration threat.

reply to..

"pretty darn good post there, flyarm"
Posted by m berst

on edit - I do think that there is no harm done, however, in people pressuring the party leadership to not cave in and compromise so often and to take a stronger stance to the Bush adminstration threat.


ohhh absolutely!!!! i have called kerry's sentate office and voiced my anger, and have emailed the campaign..i was very angry at the concession..i gave alot of money to the gelac fund..i demanded a refund..i was furious!! i was also a delegate and gave many partys for kerry i went out nightly since january speaking for kerry, and campaigning for kerry i had the kerry field rep living with me since spring for my fla area..i was feeding the kerry kids who were down here working at least 2-3 times a week at the kerry headquarters here..and it was huge...i worked endless hours for this campaign and i was furious..at the concession...i was fortunate enough to meet kerry and edwards many times as they came here alot ..and i ran the vip sections for the rallys, and i was at small luncheons with both of them, and i got to speak to kerry on a very personal level about my airline co workers who died on 9/11..kerry promised me we would get to the truth...not a passing statement , but eyeball to eyeball..heart to heart..i also was fortunate enough to spend almost an hour with Elizabeth Edwards in boston and she as well spoke with me soul to soul ..and then in the last week of the campaign Teresa kerry spoke at a cuban club here in tampa..and she put her hand on my face and promised me we would get to the truth of 9/11..she entered my heart..she was so genuine...i did a speach with max cleland for vets the first dsy of early voting, and i spoke to the vets about the lies this administration has told about 9/11 and Max held my hand as he understood my emotions speaking of my angels..my lost coworkers...yes i was angry and i let my anger fly...and i was calling and emailing everyone in the campaign.,.but then i realized...i wasn't listening myself and to all i spoke for months and months about this incredible man! Kerry is a fighter, kerry is a brilliant man, kerry is not a quiter...kerry is fighting this ..just not publicly..he is fighting it the way one would fight a huge lawsuit..he is gathering, he is investigating , out of the lime light, he has people doing the research and the foot work...call me a fool but i believe that..ireally do..i may be proved wrong..but when kerry sent out that video to his supporters..it was a message ..a code to those who really know him..that the fight is still on..that he did not desert us...and i realized whatever is going on ..they must keep it below the surface..and allow as few people in on it as possible..in order to succeed in this effort..i understand kerry may not succeed...but i can assure you..kerry did not walk away from this fight..i know it in my bones..i have gotten a few wiffs of something that is possibly "up" ..but not enough to be difinitive of...and i dont want to know if it would jeapordize any possibility that something could get exposed to turn this around.,...maybe its wishful thinking...but i have tried to stay as realistic about this as possible..
i went into this with my eyes open ..i knew with 9/11 this administration would not leave easily and would do whatever was nessary to not leave this white house..they have too much blood on their hands...and they are culpable in so many ways..and i believe they would do anything and i mean anything to keep from being caught in their lies and deciet and crimes ...i knew from the outset this was the fight of my lifetime..and most of our lifetimes...i had no illusions...but i do believe kerry knew what he was up against as well...and so did those who surrounded him..and i will say it again..kerry is not a dumb man as bush is, kerry is not arrogant, kerry will not make mistakes..i really believe kerry is going about this like any great lawyer would ..with precision, and smarts..he will not show his cards, he will fight this until he either has the thing won or we will never know about the cards he had in his hands!! kerry is like a very smart poker player the likes of what we haven't seen in a long time!! he has guts , and he has smarts, and he has the integrity !!! fly

and thank you all for the warm welcome!!

Not a very good poll since the question doesn't match the answers. Yes, I've thought about it, but NO, in this context I don't believe it. That obviously leaves me no choice to answer from.

what matters at the end is that Kerry is a coward and Bush will serve a second term.

All that bullshit talk about 'bring it on', that he would make sure every vote would be counted, tons of lawyers, etc etc, all that for fucking NOTHING. The wimp conceded and some of the votes hadn't even been counted, let alone recounted.

Even if the recount goes his way, a chance in a billion, he will kiss Bush's feet, 'for the good of the nation.' Nader was right.

Bush deserted Vietnam, Kerry deserted AMERICA.

Why do you go all over the board and trash John Kerry?

What hard evidence do you have of his cowardice? Concession is not legally binding and unless you are a deep insider, I doubt that you know what is really going on.

:shrug:

to know that Bush will serve his second term, that election 2004 was stolen BIG and Kerry let it happen.

I had hopes that he was indeed a fighter. He's not.

A coward is someone who gives up. Kerry gave up.

The "closer" pulled up lame down the homestretch.

it's been working fine for me :D

It refers to people who abandon someone in the clinches, when the fire is white hot and the going gets really dicey and tough. You don't get to call yourself a fellow brother in the department unless you've proved that you can hang in there when it seems like there is no hope, and be ready to back up your fellow firefighters to the end. If you are false, and don't prove yourself in those situations, you are referred to as BMA, Brother My Ass. This is not what I think of John Kerry. I believe he is a fighter and that he has not abandoned us at all. I think many of the posts here, throughout the site, that have assumed the worst about Kerry, and those who are ready to write him off and brand him as a coward or worse, perhaps deserve that phrase applied to them. BROTHER MY ASS.

it's been 25 days since he rolled over and played dead, and so far NOTHING. What on God's green earth would he be waiting for?

So, a behind-the-scenes secret tactic that will unseat Bush is in the making? Don't make me laugh.

What would you have done differently and what do you think the results would have been if Kerry had done something 'above the radar' and out in the open for Rove to respond to? You're very quick to assume he's doing nothing, but what are your brilliant suggestions as to how this could have been played out otherwise. I will be shocked if a sting is not in the works, but if proved wrong, I'll eat my little tin foil hat and you can scream or post I told you so if it makes you happy. Grow up. People sometimes have to do difficult things behind the scenes and they can't hold your hand and let you know they are doing it. Malatesta, what a perfect moniker for you, just a glass is half empty kind of a guy I guess huh? Do you pull the wings off flys in your spare time too?

I'm new to this, supposedly there is an ignore option for screening out seriously downer posts. I'll look up how, but if someone wants to give me a quick heads-up on it I'd sure appreciate it. I want to continue to participate on DU but these negative posts are really a pain to deal with. I'm a mother with three kids and it benefits me right now to stay supportive and believe that something miraculous and awesome could turn this around for us. Is that so wrong Malatesta?

Every thread, even the ones that are set up for happy thoughts, are infiltrated constantly by judgemental, counterproductive, slanderous, mean-spirited posters. Can't you just start your own 'I hate John Kerry and he's a a loser thread' and leave the rest of us who would like to be positive and loyal alone for the time being? It would be so refreshing.

:wtf: :mad: :smoke: :nopity:

my reality posts 'judgemental (sic), counterproductive, slanderous, mean-spirited', go right ahead, it won't change things. Bush is still starting his second-term on Jan 20.

I am simply pointing out that Kerry didn't do what he promised: to fight, to make every vote count, to bring it on. He fled.

As for your denial that Kerry is doing nothing, SHOW ME THE MONEY.

You don't have proof that K/E really fled anymore than those of us who are trying to remain positive have that he didn't. All I'm saying is that there might, just might, be a plan in the works that we are not privy to, for good reason.

That does not mean that people aren't working to prevent that from happening (K/E). Too many people, who are usually very vocal, are way too quiet for me to believe something is not up. If they are not able to prevent His Fraudulency's second coronation, then digging for incontrovertible evidence of wrong-doing (and there are so many places to dig, let's face it) will be the alternative.

I also have a bad feeling that Bush will probably take office on January 20th. You seem to think that yours are the only 'reality posts. Why, because they simply take the most negative view of people's actions?

...."your answer is irrelevant". You say Kerry is a coward well that is your opinion and opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one.

You say that it is all BS talk about making sure the votes are counted, tons of lawyers, ect. Well I guess it is BS what all the others are doing to? Do you not think all those lawyers are helping and shouldn't be their? Those lawyers can get alot more done than what you know about. Just because they don't report their every move of what they are doing , how they are doing it, and when to people like you don't mean thet aren't being effective and getting something accoplished. After all there is very good reasons for having them on them job rather than people such as yourself that like to sit on your a$$ and play armchair monday night quarterbacking. If all they needed was sitting back passing judgment and making opinions they would be paying people like you but since thats not the case I guess you got left out.

You say it is BS that he is making sure the votes are getting counted well who do you think is behind the 17,000 lawyers? It sure as hell isn't the Glibs. I am thankful for what the Glibs have done already but lets face it they aren't the one's with the lawyers. Yes the glibs jumped out there quicker than Kerry did on this but they also had alot of push and they don't work for the US Goverment in the middle of a war either. You have to approach things different when there is a war going on. It's not like it was in 2000 as so many try to compare it to. Yes it has alot of simularities but there wasn't a war in 2000. As far as Nader goes well it's like this he can jump out and try to play hero now but to many of us havn't forgot him taking all his big payoffs from the repukes while they where trying to get him on the ballots. Cobb never took no payoffs from repukes.

And this Kerry deserted America crap is the biggest joke of all. Because if you don't mean it as a joke and that is your opinion I will remind you once again opinions are like a$$holes everybody has one.

What does make sense is my charge that Kerry is a coward.

He didn't want to face Bush and the media after election theft 04. He's letting others do the dirty work, so he is not humiliated at the end. He wants to run again in 2008.

Well, he's ALREADY humiliated and this wimp doesn't stand a snow ball's chance in HELL in 08. Nader has been right all along about Democrats. My apologies to you, Ralph Nader, for all the unfair accusations.

just to see if you had anything new to say

nope.

but you can't ignore ANY of the irrefutable facts in them. And you're right, I'm not writing anything new, Kerry is still a coward.

Saying Kerry is a coward is your opinion BUT OPINIONS ARE LIKE A$$HOLES EVERYBODY HAS ONE.

Letting others do his dirty work? What a joke LMAO. I guess your buddy ralph is paying for all those lawyers?

Unfair accusations? Poor Poor Ralph. Hell everyone knows he took handouts from republicans. There is nothing unfair in saying that it is the facts.

Wimp? You must be referring to yourself because if not and this is your opinion well again let me remind you OPINIONS ARE LIKE A$$HOLES EVERYBODY HAS ONE.

Now where is your proof that Kerry is doing nothing? I mean real proof not some article that can't be proven true or something some right wing nut has said I mean real proof. I seriously doubt you can come up with proof he is doing nothing. But if you can lets see it. I think having 17,000 lawyers out there working is one sure sign he hasn't quit. Where is your sure sign he has?

Don't have a snowball's chance in hell in 08? Well first off 04 isn't over yet and when it is 08 is yet to be seen. Unless you can see into the future and tell everyone who is running and who will win. Hell if you are that good maybe you should be the one running for president or the senate. For that matter if you are that brainy and know how to do eveything so much better and could have come out with better results you should have ran in 04 instead of calling names and making nasty remarks about the man that did.

you guys are full of hot air, just like Kerry.

the thought never occurred to me and I don't think a threat would have mattered to Kerry. All of his chips were already in the game. I can't imagine what type of "threat" would cause Kerry to concede.

It's more likely that Kerry's decision to concede was a calculation based on facts instead of fear or other emotions.

The real question to me is:

Has Kerry given up on his pledge to make sure all the votes will be counted? Has Kerry given up on the campaign to win the 2004 vote and Presidency?

We have seen very little of Kerry in the media and heard very little through the grapevine. After seeing him fight so hard and so publicly during this campaign, I think it is natural to wonder and it's a perfectly honest question.

I trust in Kerry's patriotism and desire to lead our country in a better direction. You can already begin to see that our arguments and effort have merit without direct support from the Kerry campaign.

For me, that is enough of a reason to keep fighting to change this perception by Americans. The perception that there is no need to be concerned about the national voting process.

I've wondered about the "was Kerry threatened" question quite a bit myself. His concession had the same "feel" of a person reading a ransom note at gunpoint, or someone who is cornered.

Now it could have been a threat to him, or someone in his family.

It also could have been blackmail. They may have dug SOMETHING concrete up on him - OR - they may have fabricated something that would have been very damaging and very hard to refute.

I definitely got the feeling that there was some sort of "concede or else" situation going on behind the scenes.

but I really don't think Kerry would cave to threats...not even to his family - THK has enough resorces to take any vulnerable family members to a safe haven if necessary...and besides, what about the Secret Service protection?

The hushed defeatism of the Democratic leadership is what I don't understand...either something really big is going on behind the scenes, or they've all become a bunch of "pod people"... only time will tell...

In the meantime, why are we still kicking around this hypothesis instead of getting back to the job at hand - ORGANIZE, Write the media!

Think positive! If we dwell on negativity, that's all we'll get!

a SkullNBones or someone whose word Kerry trusts from the RNC pulling him aside for 5 seconds and saying "You have a choice- don't contest the election or you have a bullet in your brain within 3 weeks". Simple and effective.

Do you think he would announce to ANYONE that he was threatened? Of course not. To do so would end his political career.

Pure speculation on my part, mind you...


edited for clarity

The above men have become the Stepford Liberals.
Maybe BushCo put the screws to them.

But then there's this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A23344-2004Nov30.html
Kerry Team Seeks to Join Fight to Get Ohio County to Recount
Wednesday, December 1, 2004; Page A08

Sen. John F. Kerry's presidential campaign asked an Ohio judge yesterday to allow it to join a legal fight there over whether election officials in one county may sit out the state's impending recount.

A pair of third-party presidential candidates, who said that reports of problems at the polls on Election Day are not being addressed, are forcing the Buckeye State to recount its entire presidential vote. But David A. Yost, a lawyer for Delaware County, just outside Columbus, won a temporary restraining order last week blocking any recount there. He told the Columbus Dispatch that a second count would be a poor use of county resources. President Bush won the mostly Republican area handily, unofficial results show.

Lawyers for the Kerry campaign asked to join Green Party presidential candidate David Cobb, Libertarian candidate Michael Badnarik and the National Voting Rights Institute in the fight to force the county to participate in the recount. "If there's going to be a recount in Ohio, we don't want it to exclude Delaware County or any other county that might decide to follow Delaware County's lead," Kerry lawyer Dan Hoffheimer said. "It should be a full, fair and accurate recount."

Bush won the critical battleground state by approximately 136,000 votes, a victory that also won him a second term.
Cobb's lawyers filed papers yesterday asking a federal court to take over the case, which is scheduled for state court.