PLEASE: Can anyone provide webspace for us to post EVIDENCE?

I would love to see one definitive site where we can post all the collected evidence we see here. With posts disappearing on here into the forum netherworld by the minute, it would be great, and very useful to point non-believers and media to a site that offers no chatter, but just evidence, separated into sections. Perhaps we can also divide it into one part for theories/allegations/articles that have been put forth which are still being looked into (such as the rehab hackers thing and the government Madsen story), and the verified evidence (such as exit poll numbers, the Volusia County story, and Diebold's ties to Bush and their cruise trips for election officials and Congress members). We would have so much more power if we had one place with a mountain of damning evidence with specific references cited, so that journalists writing articles and other people can have all the facts on hand. It's really an extremely powerful tool, if you think about it. Journalists will be much more willing to get the word out and write articles if we have already done most of their research for them.

Anyone have webspace and computer knowledge to design a site? I am a computer retard, but can offer my research help. I (and those of us on here) can forward evidence and we can collectively decide how to classify it or organize it.

Please keep this kicked so we can get people on board and pool our powers!!! We need this to spread our message. Unification and power in numbers!!

I found it to be hard to go through. I mean something which merely states at the top:

EVIDENCE FOR VOTER FRAUD

VERIFIED STORIES
1.
2.
3. etc.

STORIES STILL DEVELOPING
1.
2.
Then, instead of titling the references the same as the article titles, such as "I Smell a Rat", be specific about what evidence each will show, i.e. "Exit Poll Anomalies", or "Diebold's Ties to Bush and the Republican Party", or "Deliberate Election Fraud in Volusia County, Florida", and so on. This makes it very easy for someone writing an article to pick out the references they need for their story. It also looks professional and scholarly, which lends credibility. While that other site is great for people like us, it would be very frustrating for a non-believer or journalist to wade through and click on all those links to find what they are looking for.

A site to forward sympathetic , but not convinced investigators is needed. Lets look professional please! Have been using Wikipedia, but concise it is not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_U.S._presidential_election_controversy_and_irregularities

I know you probably want your information site to be part of DU, but take a look at this site http://electionsquad.org/

maybe something similar could be created...

tracy

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It is clear and concise, withought too many graphics. I was thinking of a very simple clearinghouse of information, presented in a very easy to use, basic list that states what each piece of evidence is about.

agree'd The tone is much mo betta. Like the short front page. Do we contact them to determine if they want to act as central clearing? Any site that signs up for it is going to get hit alot.

We could contact that site and see if they are interested. I would LOVE to see a site that becomes the definitive place to steer the media and friends for ALL the stories on this topic. It would be AWESOME if it started to become highly visible, because then our message would finally be getting some attention. I think our problem until now has been that each of these credible stories are separate and floating around in cyberspace. Unification of stories will make us powerful.

I would want them to change it a little bit though, if they are game to act as the central clearinghouse for election fraud info. I thought of also calling it "Election Fraud Information Clearinghouse". But that's secondary... Mainly I want to see a clickable list of evidence, with titles describing what info can be found by following the link.

Anyone else have any ideas before I e-mail them?

still has a better ring this particular buy nothing day eve. the msm is not yet ready for "election fraud." As yet we are best postioned as those with concerns that stretch into 2006, 8, transparent elections et al. Have not spoken with a red stater yet who is not behind voter verified paper trail, for example.

Could we join forces with that site, or model one on that? I really like its simplicity, but I'd like to see a site that really lists ALL of the stories we have been following here (except perhaps the REALLY outlandish ones). The stories that are as yet uncredible but may have some elements worth looking into or are developing, we could perhaps list in a separate column, to clearly indicate that we are not validating them yet(lest the conservative journalists cite them as evidence of how INvalid our arguments are).

they clearly have some web design skills, but will likely need bandwidth and clearinghouse support. Some sort of opt-in group arguing the content is probably wise. (again, see wikipedia's structure) Agreement on what consititutes ongoing viable concerns vs outlandish should not be too hard, as long as site links to arguments pro and con on any particular claim. The idea is a wide open front door, with as many side rooms as needed, yeah?

I really appreciate this question.

I live in Québec, Canada and I have been emailing to CBC SRC and written newspaper about the ongoing cyber-investigation. I knew I could not present the case in a powerful and credible fashion cause everything is scattered around.

I am a newbie here and a newbie in cyberspace so ...

Thank you Paligal for pushing this. You have my unconditional support.

A question for you. How could you start a thread with less than 100 post? I have been looking for info on how to do it last night and did not find the answer.

Lise
your northern neighbor

VOTE FRAUD LINKS - A DU Compendium - Thread #3
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x4927

VOTE FRAUD Links Compendium - Thread #2
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x3223

VOTE FRAUD Links - a DU Compendium
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=1984#



Not a separate website (and I'm pretty sure someone has already been working on that issue), but not a bad record of what's gone on here at DU. Some important and amazing stuff in there, as well as some junk (interesting junk, but junk).

http://www.legjoints.com

this is a wiki site, so anyone can create new pages and edit existing pages. the page i've been working on is http://www.legjoints.com/AmericanElectionFraud which has links to articles. this page has a google adwords ad pointing to it so if you go to google and type in "us election" or "diebold" it will sometimes appear in the ads on the right hand side. this way i hope it should attract quite a few new visitors.

see http://www.legjoints.com/EditHelp for help creating and editing pages on legjoints - it's very easy. each page has an edit this page link in the top right - click on it and experiment.

I just started a page there:
http://www.legjoints.com/DirtyHacks/

wiki wiki furi kuri

Check out their thread where they go in there and dink with the site at legjoints...This site is not the solution.

JTT

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1289595/posts

legjoints is an activist democracy - if the good people outnumber or are more active than the bad people they control what goes on the site. and i can block the bad people when they appear.

the ease of editing pages on this site is also it's advantage - it's very easy for people to put info up there and to keep it up to date, so it doesn't leave all the work down to one person, and doesn't mean that any one person has control over what goes up there.

also, it ranks well in google (which is maybe why the freepers have put so much effort into messing with it) - type "american election fraud" into google and click "i'm feeling lucky!"

http://www.legjoints.com/AmericanElectionFraud/

http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm

If you have any ideas on improving it, I'm open to suggestions.

I am linking to you from here on in.

Only suggestion is to reverse sort the articles/blogs so that most recent is first. Those looking for news will want the front load, those looking for history will search backwards

amazing work!

...because the articles are getting overwhelming... I wish I could add a database to it, too... for the articles. So that we could "google" these, since so many of them are gone from the net now.

Maybe I'll try doing that...

Very good organization too.

I did not see this link from a Jan 04 analysis of Diebold machines from State of Maryland contractor:
http://www.raba.com/press/TA_Report_AccuVote.pdf
sorry if you had it and I missed it.

Just one little suggestion - please have a graphic designer look at it. It could be a little easier on the eye. Otherwise, MAGNIFICENT!

NGU.

anything on DU link will have a partisan tinge, actually a hard left tinge that will throw "objective" newcomers off. This proposed site should be independent and concise, willing to present resources that are newsworthy and not opinion driven. The Cal-Tech/MIT study and evidenced based, academic rebuttals should both be linked and synopsized, for example, the Penn State exit poll study and rebuttals -- if any exist, as well. Polemics, unsubstantiated claims, are best diverted to other sites.

Can we get some Dem Representative on the Cmtee to put those online?
Then we could catagorize them and add to your site.

Enough to convince any doubters about a Stolen Election.

I also like your point about titles that summarize the core of the article, not wander off into literary jokes. I hate "cute " titles that tell nothing of the content. One has to read down into each article to see what it really says.

A seed of what you seek is in the two summaries at http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection Just a seed, they have about fifteen cases of theft.

Also good for fast convincing of Joe, is my list of 18 ways to steal votes.. "voting issues forum " here .. title is "Vote-theft methods". Link is now belo: -->

I edited just now, and pasted the 16 plus 2, right here: {not the orig post, but in a RE: to it.}
==========================
. Organized version of orig post, with additions
Edited on Thu Nov-25-04 09:26 AM by oscar111
This list can convince Joe Citizen that the election was stolen. It startles many readers when they see details spelling out exactly how it was done. Useful for Letters to the Editor.
Also, the list is convincing of the need to REVOTE, not just recount.
If you have any methods to add, pls post a re: to this thread.
==========================
LIST--- 16 WAYS TO STEAL
++++++++++++++++
BEFORE VOTE:
=================
--"register and toss"--RNC paid company to hire canvassers to register many in dem areas, + toss forms away
//--caging.. Palast detailed how thousands on rolls in black areas, were challenged by GOP, to knock them off rolls.
////--cop visits.. FL state police visit elderly black activists, question about terrorists.
///////--wrong location.. FL officials give paper the wrong vote locations to print.
/////--flyers.. GOP flyers in ethnic areas tell wrong locations, dates.
////--tough cards.. FL..tough punch cards sent to dem areas, normal cards to republican areas.
=================
/// DURING VOTE:
==================
--roadblock..FL cops roadblock 2 black polling places.
//----"few machines" method.... OHIO...few in heavily democratic precincts, many machines in repub ones
/////--flood rides...NH GOP hired a company to make a flood of calls to "need a ride" phone bank.
//////--challenges.. old method of challenging those in line.. also slows line.
/////----car plates.. Wiscon.? .. GOP follows indians after vote, copys down car plate no. {intimidation}
///////--machine innards
===secret programming.. admitedly secret.. only an idiot would buy Diebold.
===glitches all favor bush
===secret code that adds bush votes?
===after Kerry vote, light appears to show a vote for bush
//////--exit polls-- 4pm exit polls do not match final machine tallies in areas using e-machines, but match final tallies in areas using paper ballots.
e-machines are suspect!
//////--exit polls-- closing exit polls may have been altered, after 4pm EP's showed alarming Kerry win.
================
AFTER VOTE:
=================
//--secret count.. OH Warren county uniquely locks out reporters
//--alter totals.. central location gathers precinct totals, alters the totals
// --"spoiled"... in nat'l elections, it is routine to toss 2 million ballots as "spoiled" by tiny errors, etc. Most of tossed are ethnic's ballots.
===============
SUMMARY:
================
57,000 election day complaints , a floodtide, to House Judiciary Committee.
12 Congresspeople call for an investigation.
We need a new election with pen on paper ballots, hand counted... the Canadian model. No machines of any kind. Much cheaper as well.
============
 Add to re: above..few ethnic poll plces:One partisan runs election, not Bd

1. few poll places.... in dem areas, few voting places, .. in repub areas, many. Sum: in dem areas, few voting places with each having too few voting machines.
2. One partisan runs election... one man runs the whole election. This means one PARTY runs things. Bad idea. Better, a Board of all parties is on top of all. ---OH.... mr. Blackwell, repub., one man in control, made ludicrous rules that stole the election.
 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=5457

==================
Layout.. fast download is essential.
... DU's format is great. Allow for large type if you want middle agers to read it. White background is best. No long paragraphs.. break up blocks of words. Sub-titles also needed for long stories.

I organized cases in "vote theft" by time.. YOu might like that too.

BEFORE VOTE
DURING VOTE
AFTER VOTE

In fact, you might use my 18 kinds of theft, as subheadings to each of the 3 time categories listed above. Then, post the cases as they roll in, where they belong in the 18 kinds of theft.

Democratic Underground Forums - Vote-theft methods: a Quicklist to learn:good 4 Joe Citizen:startles him
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=201&topic_id=5457

===================
Begin with a list of TOP TWENTY MOST OUTRAGEOUS VOTE THEFTS to catch the mind of Joe's who are busy.

eg.,,, top twenty:
1. FL.. cops roadblock 2 polling places in a black area.
2. OH..Warren county.. officials uniquely lock out reporters from seeing the votes counted.
3. WIS. {?} GOP activists follow Indians who vote, and write down their car licence numbers. To intimidate others who have not yet voted.
4. FL.. State Police visit elderly black vote activists and interrogate them about some supposed terrorist case. Intimidation again.
5. OH.. Few polling places in dem areas, many in repub areas.
6. OH.. in the few dem area polling places, few vote machines.. but many for the repub areas.

please put up evidence as fast as possible.. just a few to start with would do fine. Put up more later as you process it.

EC meets dec 12.. 12/12.

some say nothing final till Jan 6,. but i am not real sure that is true. might be.

dont try for perfection. That will slow you and events will pass you by.

Just getting you picks for TOP TEN OR TOP TWENTY up, will be fine for the start. They themselves are mighty convincing to a Joe Citizen. Offer them as a printout flyer.

Influence has to happen fast..now.., to alter history.

PS Jesse called two days from now, sunday, as Day of Protest of Stolen Election. Jesse jackson.

:kick:

doing just what you requested. Also someone over on BBV has been offering to host a webpage which they say can be set up in minutes I think (but I am not a techie). Here is the Countingcoup site:

http://countingcoup2004.blogspot.com/

and I will see if I can find the person on BBV site. Lets not spend our time reinventing the wheel.

I agree that we shouldn't attempt to reinvent the wheel. While the two sites mentioned are also great, I would love to try if we can get some kind of link/affiliation with BBV, because they are already so high-profile. We would get a lot more hits. But if that doesn't work out, there are some great sites mentioned. The CountingCoup site is in a different format (blog) than I think would be effective, because there is no simple, concise overview of stories and people have to scroll to read through each full account. I literally just want a list of links, with each subject title explaining what evidence the link will provide. Not much additional stuff on the page to distract or confuse.

Anyway, if BBV can get involved, I'd be thrilled. I am happy to start compiling stories and links right away. I would love one or two people to help with that, and several to scour the Internet and get the word to DUers to e-mail the stories. One request: PLEASE ask people to include a source reference in each story/piece of evidence. We must have documented and credible evidence.

I am ready. I have an e-mail address that I was using for another website a friend and I were attempting before the election (http://www.focusedgroup.org). The website is now obsolete, but the name is still apropriate. E-mail me at:

focusedgroup04@yahoo.com

Ask people to e-mail stories there, and if you can help, e-mail me so we can coordinate. We can start gathering and organizing stories now, and find a host website when we hear from BBV or the other website owner. They can also e-mail at that e-mail address. Let's do it!

I just emailed you, Paligal...!

So the DU research should be removed from the site? (but saved or put on a separate page, of course).

People just want articles, investigations, research and analyses?

I mentioned a database. I was in contact with a DUer a few weeks ago who is a developer - I hope he's still reading...

But there are ways to get around not being a developer...

(PS: I'm glad to be a candidate, LOL! - thank you!)

http://www.legjoints.com

this is a wiki site, so anyone can create new pages and edit existing pages. the page i've been working on is http://www.legjoints.com/AmericanElectionFraud which has links to articles. this page has a google adwords ad pointing to it so if you go to google and type in "us election" or "diebold" it will sometimes appear in the ads on the right hand side. this way i hope it should attract quite a few new visitors.

see http://www.legjoints.com/EditHelp for help creating and editing pages on legjoints - it's very easy. each page has an edit this page link in the top right - click on it and experiment. you can upload files - images and pdfs etc - to pages.

all updates of pages are saved, protecting the site against hacking since it can easily put back to its pre-hacked state.

the site has a simple look to it, deliberately not professional, but for gathering information and sorting out the arguments i think i can work. it's my site and you're welcome to put whatever you want up there.

http://www.legjoints.com got edited by republicans last night but i've put it back to how it was now. that's the trouble with a site that's so easy to edit, but it's just as easy to put things back. i have a web server so could host a fixed page site as well.

FAILURE to properly register the vote was cast at all
FAILURE to properly register the vote for the proper candidate
FAILURE to properly Count the votes
FAILURE to prevent the Count from being Corrupted up or down
FAILURE to properly Report the Count

and the big one:
FAILURE to provide Confidence in the Election Process itself!

Paligal - THANK YOU for this call for an organized posting site for DU articles/evidence. I am a newbie and while I am starting to get the hang of navigating this site, I have been frustrated trying to find analyses. While we know that journalists are reading DU, I doubt they are able to find the analyses in a format that they are likely to use. The two best sites people mentioned above are both by DU members:

Chili's "Shadowbox" site: http://shadowbox.i8.com/stolen.htm
Understandinglife's Counting Coup site: http://countingcoup2004.blogspot.com /

Both sites seem like they would be more than HAPPY to post DU analyses.

The CHALLENGE is to get people to WRITE UP their analyses -- in concise English essays. The best analyses I have seen (like ignatzmouse's data on North Carolina) have too many numbers and too little explanation & summation for a journalist to grasp. Think of this as writing a press release -- anytime you want a journalist to cover your event or group you have to write a press release with all of the information you want to be in the newspaper -- that is, do the work for them.

I think the job from this point is to:
(1) Create a complete list of analyses posted on DU -- go through Eloriel's vote fraud links to find them.
(2) Contact the authors of these analyses and ask them to write up (or okay a volunteer to write up) a concise summary ASAP.
(3) Ask Chili & Understandinglife to post the essays on their already well-organized pages - by topic - like discrepancies between exit polls and tabulated votes; discrepancies between registration and tabulated votes; discrepancies between early voting and election day results and so forth.

Does this make sense? Who would be willing to work on this with me? Paligal are you up for the challenge?

Do Chili and/or Understandinglife want to receive, check for x-posting, and lay out these submissions? Seems like a big job for one person. Some sort of self posting system seems desireable, like wiki, or a review board per catagory.

Perhaps a skeleton framework into which submissions could be herded. Some sort of bulletn board to see which articles have already been 'checked out' for review, or recently recieved.

Also a Db to post articles as they fall off the web is a good idea.

noted elsewhere the url "http://electionfraud.org" is available.

More ideas than concrete plans this am.

A posting system is a bad idea, because we can't filter stories for being accurate, referenced, and valid. It would just devolve into another DU type discussion spot. It will take someone who is willing to check every day or two for new stories, and post them.

I would like to see only the most credible stories up there, so that journalists and others can safely use them as references and we don't come off as crackpots because of one or two wacky theories in the mix. I'm afraid that for this to get any attention at all from the people we are trying to reach, we must only provide evidence which holds up under scrutiny. We can, however, include a link to another section with "developing" or unsubstantiated theories that may or may not be true.

Send stories to:
focusedgroup04@yahoo.com

I really like Chili's site. If BBV is not interested, would Chili be interested? It would require a bit of reformatting, but the site is already very well done.

If so, e-mail focusedgroup04@yahoo.com

I thought you were suggesting we have people post directly. You mean have them post, and then we filter the stories and put up only the best. Because we will get A LOT of the same stories. Hmmm. Come to think of it, wouldn't it be better for just a couple people to research on here and report the biggest stories first? Then we can put those up and people can check the website before they send their evidence, to make sure they are not sending something we already have?

Monkee, I'd really like you to work on this with me. You seem to be on the same page as me. Do you have some time? I have parents visiting, so won't be able to work on it this afternoon or tomorrow, except in the late evening. But I have an hour or two everyday in the evening I can devote. If each of us puts some time in, all together, we can get a lot done.

I can't design websites or post or anything, so the computer stuff will have to be done by someone else. I can edit stories and gather evidence, however, name topics, stuff like that.

...if you and monkee (and whomever you think has good research skills) can do the legwork in researching stories and contacting people/sites for synopses.

The thing that takes the longest for me is the content. If I have content, I can fly. Could have it up by Monday or Tuesday.

I haven't read through this whole thread yet, but I like what you're doing here. Let me know how I as a writer can help.

NGU.

I'm in Paligal

Seems like Chilli has the site and the willingness to lay out accordingly. We have contributers. We simply have to sift the articles. The RAS forum is good, but it's raw data. A Stolen Election needs to rate articles by date and by relevance.

lets keep this up. It's important.

Can do...!

I've already redesigned the main page, and the "machines" page. The suppression page needs work, and I'm still gleaning info from the EIR database... but I can add any page needed.

Also, I'd like to make election reform a part of the site? On a separate page... with a sort of platform on what's needed... Someone started a thread on this last week, and there were some great ideas. Make reform the goal, and the investigation of the fraud and suppression as the path towards it. Does that make sense? Just some ideas...

it seems to be keeping on top of the story as it breaks:

http://www.solarbus.org/stealyourelection/

want to get people on board

Private message me if it will work for what you want to do.

I have family here, so need to go now, but will definitely get back on top of this tonight. Could definitely use the place to post initial articles. Then I can sort through and reformat for a website. I'm still hoping that BBV will want to be involved, since they already are high-profile and get hits.

:thumbsup:

Whatever anybody does, could you please organize it. Voting machine "glitches" that have been explained. Voting machine "glitches" that have not been explained. Similar errors in the same machines. Software programming differences in the same machine, but different counties states. Voter suppression, organized by types of suppression. Other voting anomalies and problems.

Seems to me we still have everything thrown together in one big pot and it's just too much for the media to make sense of. The second they run across one or two accusations of fraud that have already been proven to be human errors, a reporter will roll his eyes and move on.

Will be back this eve. SandnSea, I'd love your help. I totally agree with your comments. Please let me know: focusedgroup04@yahoo.com

As far as webspace, I am waiting to hear from the BBV poster, and have two other options lined up, so I think we are OK on that count, though I will keep it as another option, should those fall through.

Thanks everybody! Let's keep the ball rolling on this!

In the mean time, I am getting more and more turned off to the unsubstantiated stories floating around here. I think perhaps I would like to distance myself from them and hope we can really focus on stories with good solid evidence that reporters can actually reliably report. Mixing in unsubstatiated theories will give them ammunition perhaps, to use in their stories to debunk us. What do you guys think? Originally, I thought, put them in a separate link, but now think, perhaps leave them out entirely until/if they can be backed up.

...to write the site statement for me? Sounds like you're pretty familiar with other sites and their pitfalls. I'll put it together, but don't have time or resources to create all of the copy (text).

you don't mind using my existing interface format. It would take a lot longer to write an entirely new interface for a database.

My mostly abandoned database (It was just too much work for one person) is here: http://farleyfiles.com

I could set up a separate database for just 'voting irregularities" or whatever, using the same forms and scripting I use on FarleyFiles. I see a lot of good sites are already mentioned in this thread, so if you think this would just be diluting those efforts with yet another site, no problem. Or (possibly), depending on the host used, I could rewrite the interface for somebody else's site. I'm willing to help, what do you want?

**edit for spelling and punctuation!**

:kick:

This site "Election Investigation Library" from DU'er "regularjoe" looks super-organized to me <http://www.rasgroup.com/phpBB2>

He even put a call out for people to send him their raw data --
<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=201x5185>

Perhaps you would consider posting the analyses to the Election Investigation Library and also to Chili's site... it makes sense to post them in more than one location and at the least it would give you a place to post reports to transition them to Chili's site.

A website that is organized for posting analyses and raw data. The "Election Investigation Library." It was just put together about a week ago and we are very much still in the process of adding new design to it but it is functional and it has some data. We started because we were frustrated that there was no one place to find data and it was too hard to search through rapidly dissapearing posts. What we have is a forum setup but only Moderators are allowed to post in the information organization area. We have a couple forums just for discussing questions but that is it. This way the organization is protected and the info posted goes through quality control first. Having clear navigating and efficient searching is a top priority. We could use some help finding data and at some point we might makes changes to get some help from volunteers for posting. The host of the site is volunteer so we are proceeding carefully and cautiosly to avoiding becoming an unwelcome guest.

So far we have included some voter registration info, elections results, exit polls, pre-election polls, and our prize and joy, county contact information for every county in the U.S. (painstakingly entered into excel from www.congress.org one county at a time).

Anyway, check it out at <http://www.rasgroup.com/rasforum/index.php> Please be patient with us as we sort out the vast pile of info and continually refine our structures and efforts.

If anyone has any raw data or analyses to share (or just knows where to find it) please let us know at election.statistics@gmail.com

The website isn't intend to be a popular discussion forum or to compete with DU for members. Just trying to help with organizing information.

Note: you must register (requires no private info) to be able to see and download attachments

Spread the word!

regularjoe

Bump

kickity kick kick!

election irregularities

http://www.votesmustcount.com/page2.htm

PS I think this is a great idea.

Here's the correct address

http://www.votesmustcount.com/index.htm

Sorry, it's already early morning and I haven't slept yet. This election theft is causing insomnia.

So, between family visiting and work, and the fact that I have had many sites forwarded to me which somewhat fit my description along with offers to use said sites for our purpose, I have taken some time getting back to you guys. Chili's site, as well as the votesmustcount.com site are good. I have no e-mail address on the latter, so can't contact them.
Where do we go from here? Any advice? I don't know who I should be working with at this point.
Also never heard additional info about Black Box Voting, though I would like whatever site we have to be at least linked to from them. That would be nice, because they are high-profile.
I have been seeing some great stories to include on the page, such as the video of that drunken republican Congressman alluding to fraud: http://homepage.mac.com/duffyb/nobush/iMovieTheater256.html
That's just the sort of thing the mainstream media likes. It's sensational. In any case, I'd like to see guys like that hoisted by their own petard, so to speak.
Anyway, I'm compiling some articles/videos/data links, and will be sending those of you who have e-mailed this afternoon. Thanks for all the help! I wasn't expecting that, and was rather overwhelmed with info. More this afternoon...

Why not work and coordinate with the existing team here at DU that we know is reliable and trustworthy, and has been on top of this since day one?

I am. The sites I was forwarded were all submitted as possibilities by DU members. And I want to work together with DUers to review and post stories on the site. But if you read the thread, our idea is that it must be verifiable stories that are posted on one site to act as research material for journalists. On DU they would have to wade through our chatter and stories/theories that are still developing which they can't use in their articles as evidence. The goal is to get this issue higher visibility, which means getting media to cover it. A central site for verifiable evidence will make it easier for journalists to cover the story, which means they will be more likely to do so.

The danger is that false and misleading information is disseminated, and that more confusion is introduced. Systematic research and verification is already happening. Coordinate with the people here - eloriel, hedda and ida - who are reliable, and find out what is ready to go to the public and what is not and in what form, and what help is needed. Mixing together research, verification of data, and dissemination carries risks, and is already happening all over the web in any case.

If the story dies, it will be because of wild goose chases, perhaps intentionally and maliciously started, and extravagant and false claims being spread around, in my opinion.

Since there is an ongoing effort being led by trustworthy DU members, a healthy skepticism about calls for new and independent efforts by unknown people is justified, I believe.


on edit - comma in the wrong place

If so, isn't that the exact same thing I am saying? I am saying we need a place that lists the verifiable stories and data for journalists to reference without fear of citing unreliable stories. I am saying that we need to separate the hard facts that can be used to back up our case from the chatter and theories that are as yet unproven. I am saying we need a website to post this on and direct the media to. I am asking DUers if they want to work on this. Isn't that the same as what you are saying?

Hi Paligal, and welcome to DU. I original was speaking to everyone on the thread, and responding to your op. Now, yes, I am answering your responses to my posts.

The need for reliable sources is important. The need for a central website that will have these reliable sources is not in question. The need for trust and cooperation, however, trumps these IMHO. So I am suggesting that you touch base with the core of trustworthy DU members whom I mentioned and who are already coordinating these efforts, as a first step, rather than throwing it open to all DUers - since all DUers just means whomever happens to have signed up and posts here.

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