Leno just compared the Ukraine election to ours: MICHAEL MOORE ON!

In his opening monoluge, Jay Leno said Victor Yanukovich was elected with a little help from his brother "Jeb" Yanukovich, or something like that.
Don't forget to watch Leno tonight--Michael Moore is on!

Exit polls don't lie. No matter how many times the so called MSM changes their stats - we got there origonal screen shots. Long live the democratic process... in Ukraine!!!!

Threre are protestors on both sides for example, and the fraud may be equally 'balanced' as well, that's the way democracy should work. But mainly, it's just that one side is getting ALL the media coverage.
(That's the side BushCo supports, btw.)

He's in a suit!!!!

He didn't say anything about Fraud. Didn't even touch it.

Maybe it is the suit, shave and a haircut....it has done something to his brain.

Just teasing, but I do look forward to Leno later tonight! :) -G

he never even mentions the fact that voting needs to be fixed.

Leno asked how Bush won the election, and Moore said he got more votes. I, at that point hoped he would say, Just How Bush did get more votes...ie fraud. No.... Moore just said that Bush had a powerful story, and implied Kerry didn't. He has caved in...........

In fact, I think he's doing us a favor by not mentioning it at all, it would be just as ineffective if Hilary jumped on the bandwagon. Truth is, it need to be a grassroots thing helped by statisticians, computer scientists, and voting activists.

Mike Moore could kill this movement just by talking about it, I don't think he needs to be the lead man here.

grassroots here. Not that he doesn't have his faults, but the repukes have smeared Moore too much to let him lead this.

n/t

He said we will try again in 4 more years. Doesn't he understand if we do not have election reform it doesn't matter who runs or what their message is, the machines and the people behind them will choose for us.

He has this:

November 29th, 2004
One Month Later, Fight Over Ohio Continues; Activists including the Rev. Jesse Jackson demand closer scrutiny to ensure the votes are being counted on the up-and-up
http://michaelmoore.com/words/index.php?id=416

Is it possible that he is laying low, and in on something big? He was there filming in Ohio on election day. He even released a short video of voters being disenfranchised. Or is this just hope beyond hope, wishful thinking on my part?

I hope you are right that he and "they" are onto something big, but I have wondered all along if he, and the rest are being threatened or blackmailed, or in some way are stifled by a very dangerous game going on. There is no reason for people like Moore and Al Franken to suddenly become turncoats and have NO DOUBT that the election results were on the up and up, when so much evidence points in the other direction, and when these guys know there is no limit to the dirty tricks of the Reptilicans. If we were to make a top 10 list of the strongest voices for the left, it would have to include Moore and Franken, and neither of them shows the slightest iterest in the voter disenfranchisement and 1000s of pro-Bush "glitches" in the count. WOnder if they all received similar, sinister letters in their mailbox.

I find Franken very often Republican Light. He has a desired political career in the horizon, and I don't believe he wants to rock the boat (if this election is not overturned, there won't be a future for any Democrat in government). He was also a cheerleader in the run-up to the war, and in the beginning of the Iraq war. For me that is hard to swallow. He has since apologized for his scathing remarks about Blix and the Dixie Chicks, but if little old me, without any connections knew that the war was based on lies from the beginning, why didn't he???

As to Moore, I really am in a quandry here. Threats on his families lives perhaps, and yet, I know that right now I need to grasp on to that hope that he is keeping quiet on something Huge. He was in Ohio and Florida along with Greg Palast. Cameras rolling. Documenting.

Even Randi Rhodes has been very closed mouth about it all for the last couple of weeks. She had started screaming out about the injustices in both Florida and Ohio, drumming the call to her war on the Fraud by drumming up donations for the Glibs, Black Box Voting, Help America Recount and for Alliance for Democracy. Then all of a sudden she stopped that drive for contributions. Last Wednesday there was an on the air phone call from Andy of Black Box Voting. She told him to call her at home. Whatever he wanted to say, she didn't want it to be aired. This true heroine's actions alone lead me to hold on to the slender thread that all is not lost yet.

maybe Randi herself has been threatened or her job. I just cannot understand how they could think not talking about this could possibly help. Most Americans are so self centered, we have to be beat over the head with some things before they sink in, that is why we need everyone talking all the time to get any attention.

I know he is working on something.

After the intial shock of seeing him on Leno, I started to think about it all. Why was he even on Leno in the first place. He hardly plugged his book. He even took great measures (shaving and the suit) to appear as if he was joining the mainstream. There was of course his sarcasm as to what having Bush as President now means to him, and yet, why appear on Leno in the first place like this. Maybe to calm Rove and pals that they have defanged one of Bush's biggest critics of them all??? Once again, from your fingers to God's/Goddess' ears! :)

..."why was on on Leno at all." When Leno asked him why the shave and suit, he said something (sorry, not a direct quote, scraping the memory barrel here) about wanting to look like the guys who won. Yeah, RIGHT. That's really important to him.

I think you're correct, OmmmSweetOmmm (love your name!)--it's a costume. He's going to come out with some major information and he can't look like the old Bush-bashing 9-11 Michael Moore when he does it.

There's certainly always the chance that he watched too many "What Not to Wear"s or "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"s and changed just because he felt like a makeover, but I would be mightily surprised.

Renate:

There's certainly always the chance that he watched too many "What Not to Wear"s or "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy"s and changed just because he felt like a makeover, but I would be mightily surprised.

Too funny!

Thank you for your reply, for complimenting my user name, and yes, for this laugh! I really need it now! This has been a very long haul for me, a 2+ year journey, and all humor is greatly appreciated!

I am now waiting with fingers, toes and other extremities crossed hoping that a miracle will happen. That very soon, Moore and Kerry will be riding over the hill with their white hats on, and absolute proof of criminal fraud in hand.

BTW...it's not fun being contorted like a pretzel.

Peace!
Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ;)

That the Republicans will jump all over it as a Michael Moore stunt?

(I am an eternal optimist)

OK so what's the deal? Bush won because he got the most votes? Did I miss something? Were we all dreaming that he was suddenly going to show up with a documentary showing the thousands of people who were disenfranchised in Ohio and Florida? Is the election irregularity portion of is site just for show? Please someone, slap me-- tell me that he hasn't sold out for real?

He needs to hear from us.

I would never believed Michael Moore would sell out and I just watched him do it in living color, he will definitely hear from me

There is definitely something going on. This was not the MM we know. I just watched him at one of his Slacker Uprising speeches before the election, and the contrast is amazing. Something is up -- and it's best right now to just be patient - HAVE FAITH - and don't give in to fear or paranoia. Read all the positive visualizations here in another thread, add your own and trust in the power of the thousand monkey theory!!! If you don't know what that is, ask me and I'll tell you!
JoMama.

AGAINST THE RNC,
MOORE AND JESSE JACKSON AND SAMULE JACKSON Led the march of over 500,000 protestors.
Maybe he has sold out---or maybe he hasn't and there is a good reason he kept quiet?
I don't know.

Maybe he was told to keep quiet so that the recount efforts and whatnot don't look ridiculous and become discredited. Let's face it the Republicans HATE Moore, and if he is the one saying there was election fraud -- they're not going to even stop and listen. However, Reverend Jesse Jackson on the other hand... Well, he is respected and even Republicans are going to listen to him. I honestly think Moore was told to keep quiet.

He is respected by Dems here but I have never heard anything but snide remarks from the other side. Anyway, I hope you are right and it is just a plan to get the "right" person out front to PR this. But here again, are we just trying to put a positive spin on something where there is no real evidence that what we are saying is true - to support what we so desperately "want" to believe?

His big thing is protesting the war.With Bush still in power and his war continuing for who knows how long,Moore is still in business.He's made big money off of us and now he's even dressing like he's spending it.He's lost my respect.I'm going to tell him what I think in a nasty e-mail and that's mike@michaelmoore.com

The guy has earned my respect and trust over **years** of truth-telling. I've never met a human being who would work so hard for so long on causes he clearly believed in, only to decide that actually he's in it for the money.

Sheesh. I'm giving Moore the benefit of the doubt: gonna wait and see what happens in the next few months.

If I start seeing him in shampoo commercials, then I'll know you're right.

I don't get it unless what was said in the previous post is what lies behind this (that he (Moore) isn't the man for the job and it would discredit the effort if he mentions/validates/confirms or endorses it in any way?)

I was expecting something more, though I don't know what. It seems to totally discredit all of the voting issues when Dem officials or Dem spokespeople (of which I consider Moore to be one, in an unofficial capacity) don't even bother to mention all of the controversy surrounding the election. It is almost like they refuse to dignify the "absurdities" with a response.

Are we wrong to believe? Is Kerry really working behind the scenes as so many of us out here on DU believe? Is every person who appears in public and doesn't even acknowledge the discrepancies really part of a quiet, behind-the-scenes coup or have they really in fact, moved on? Are we holding on to something truly tangible or it is just air?

I'm nearly in shock... Is that really Michael Moore or has he been abducted and replaced with a robot?

I just spent the afternoon putting up flyers for the "Fight for Democracy Rally" in Columbus Saturday. Are we just fooling ourselves?Help!

Moore has been posting regularly about the voting issues on his website. Maybe he's up to something.

I just don't get it. What about the filming? What about the Saudi connections? What about everything he stands for- Truth, Justice, Exposing Fraud-- does anyone have any contact with him? Will writing to him make a difference? Is this part of some "bigger plan" that we will all find out about in the days ahead?

Not even a hint that something went "amiss" (to put it mildly) on Nov. 2nd. Even a hint would have been find with us- something to show that he is "on the team" (working under the radar)....

Say it's not so Michael- say that you are with us. Please.

I think it's better if Mike did not lead this fight. He is too much of a magnet. We really needed Kerry to lead this fight. Moore did not sell out - looks like Kerry did. Any way, in order for real change to occur, we as people must lead this fight at the grass roots. We as people must dig and dig and dig until our fraudulant and weak leaders, elected or stolen, get ousted and replaced in the mannor of which our founding fathers intended it - Threw fair and accurate elections.

helooks like he's trying to clean himself up to run for office himself. Is that what they offered you to help condemn America to the pits of hell? ASSWIPE

Moore was present and singly pointed out in the Republican National Convention.

We always need to piece all information together to reach a conclusion. This may or may not matter.

sorry - I do not follow.

Wouldn’t the idiot (*) think Moore as an enemy? Why would he be invited and actually pointed out during the convention. The camera was on Moore for a good 20 seconds. Why? I am not sure.

Thoughts?

"the enemy" but I thought his presence at the RN Convention to be an "in your face" to the Repubs because they can't stand him and I felt it was his way of saying, "Tough, I am crashing your party and there is nothing you can do about it."

I do not think there was any collusion between Moore and any Repubs. I can't imagine that.

maybe in some way they need each other. You know, the way BushCo needs OBL.

for USA Today.
he was booed and he laughed at the camera.

vote fraud? I think it's better that he didn't mention it. The media is already busy rolling their collective eyes at this stuff and that situation wouldn't improve at all with Moore's name being attached to it.

How much longer do we have to hang out here with no support from anyone but each other? I do have faith but it is because I want to have faith, not really because anyone has given me any reason to have it. We spin tales of hidden meaning into everything anyone says but are we only deluding ourselves? Sorry - I do not mean to be insulting anyone because I am right in the middle of this with all of you but I could sure use some validation from SOMEONE . . .

I am going to Ohio to help in whatever way I can at a terrible time of year to be away from family with all that needs to be done to ready for the holidays - and I do not mind making this sacrifice - but I cannot help but ask myself if I am being stupid or naive.

I read all of the post out here whenever I get the chance but I can't even really add anything anymore because it seems it has all been said - and there is no point unless or until something further happens. How incredibly frustrating!

Don't worry about Michael. We sould all stop worrying about Kerry, or the Dems or anyone else. We aren't in this totally alone. Cob and Badarnic and Jesse Jackson and Kucinich and Beckerman and many more are with us.

And it is up to us. We, the people. It's up to us...that's what Democracy is about. We aren't foolish for doing what we can, what wemust to keep our country free and make our elections fair and honest.

but it is a lonely place at times.

What would that have hurt, it doesn't matter what party you belong to, our democracy is at stake.

he went through before the election. So even if he believes Kerry got more votes, he cannot possibly believe there is no validity to anything about the election fraud - so what harm could have come from him saying something about vote reform? Even if he didn't mention Kerry or the recount? It just doesn't ring true to character.

Who WAS that fat man in a suit anyway? Bush "kept us safe"???? WTF??????

:scared:

who knows in reality if Bush really kept us safe or not.

deep breath. this is the man that put himself out on a limb making damning documentaries about the antichrist in office. he has made himself a target of ridicule and harassment to the RWnuts to stand up for democracy.

his silence is suspicious, if not anything else. he is saavy and with all that he knows about this cabal, there MUST be a reason for his silence. we may not know it right now, but it just seems reasonable to deduce that he is acting in a stealthily manner as opposed to selling out.

Here it is.
You've lost a lot of respect from myself and a lot of your supporters.And also you looked a lot better with the beard and scruffy clothes.You sold us out(the ones who want to get Bush out of the White House) on the Jay Leno show on Monday.You've got a lot of balls saying Bush won because "He got more votes".No shit,Sherlock, but it was how he got them that you didn't have the balls to say.You didn't mention anything about the recounts going on.Your buddy,who you were holding hands with in New York at the RNC,Jesse Jackson, was in Ohio over the weekend trying to drum up support for the recount.That is what you should be doing.And to think I went to your movie twice and bought your dvd.You suck big time.You really look like you went over to W's side,What did he do?Pay you off or scare you off.Either way you owe a lot of people a lot of explaining.Fuck you.Hope you enjoy his tax breaks and make a lot of money protesting his war,ASSHOLE. Send him one too at mike@michaelmoore.com and MMFLINT@AOL.COM

Does anyone remember the Sienfeld episode where George thinks his new girlfriend is ignoring his phone calls so he leaves a really nasty message on her answering machine, only to find out she was away for the weekend. George had made all sorts of stories up about why she wasn't calling him and got madder and madder, until POW, he left that message.

I fought that impulse last night because I was able to discern Mike's irony, having read all his books, seen his films, and even had an email conversation with him. I could tell last night that the audience, like yourself, took him literally. He deliberately answered, that Bush "got more votes" and then he turned and sipped some water as if to say end of story. When he said that bit about George Bush keeping us safe it was in order to illustrate what good STORY tellers the Republicans are. I could tell the audience did not get the subtlety. He elaborated by saying it is a good story because we can't know if we will be attacked again.

Where I fault him in his attempt to speak ironically, was when he said the Dems didn't have an equally compelling story. He could have easily gone into a rif about how the Dems story of Honesty, Integrity, and Diplomacy weren't enough for the people...Or something like that.

I am in that crazy place where I just KNOW they are all up to something and they KNOW they have to look like the COMPLETE opposite of sore losers when this breaks. Where they are making a mistake, I think, is that they are not being Rovian enough. The Rove plan is in effect, steadily, drip drip, polls don't count, drip drip, gays still marrying in that damn Massachusetts, drip drip, man driving the 10 commandment slab around the country on a truck, 'cause there is no place in liberal Amerika for a poor Christian to land, drip drip.

Those were top stories on Peter Jennings last night, while Jesse Jackson was being BOLD and BRAVE in Ohio.
Not even a mention. We are up against something BIG!

My fantasy is that our message may be—"Who us? We're not contesting this election!" "Oh no, it is the Black guy, and those silly 3rd part candidates who think there is something wrong..." "What we won?" "Well how about that!"

That is my hope, but then it gets dashed when I read in one of Bev Harris's posts that the Kerry lawyers were USELESS, and asked no questions.

Then I feel like a Friggin dupe...

I also wrote to Mike and just asked him 2 questions, was he being ironic? And are we gonna get this guy?
I will post if he answers.

Calm down, it was all on purpose.
Why was he clean shaven, in a suit, with his hair combed like Ralph Reed?
Couldn't it be that he's pretending (in a not subtle way) to have "assimilated" like he's given up and accepted the BS? Bush won, more votes. Where have we heard that before? Everywhere? Maybe the number one talking point ahead of "it won't change the outcome"?

Didn't you think you were looking at his evil twin? Do you believe that he just flipped, in four weeks, to them?

Don't you think people were expecting him to start railing, to be a big target of hate for them? Now, they have nothing to say. Bland appearance on bland Leno. And, why Leno?

Pleeeeze! O, ye of little faith!

It would be nice to have just a hint that the tree really is not bending in the wind. I agree- it was rather bizarre to see him looking so- -well, yes-- Ralph Reedish. And I agree- Leno over Letterman (or Jon Stewart) does send a message- subtle but a message just the same. AND there were those stories (and at least one media piece) about the cameras in Ohio (where he stated that the film was to be used in court) and his website did have a place for people to post election problems and--- ok. But it sure would be nice to know for sure, what he (and everyone else we believe to be working under the radar) has in mind...

How 'bout if the Glibs/Nader are really laying the ground work and K/E comes swooping in this week? That would be great! Pleeeeze, let them be working on something. It's way too quiet. Are we in Bizarro World?

the anticipation is making me woosy. Let's just assume it will happen when the time is right.

I just saw part of it and to me at least it seemed like MM was going so far in the other direction it was almost ridiculous. And I didn't believe him for a moment. I, too, think it was all on purpose. C'mon, (paraphrasing) Bush kept us safe and that's why he won the election?? From the maker of F9/11?? Since when does MM not make waves? And that bit about how hey, what does he care, he benefits from Bush's tax cut? How on earth can you think he's serious?

Nope, mark my words there is SOMETHING going on. And as I've been reading what others have said here on DU, the silence is deafening. I don't post much here, but I had to here - it just seemed SO contrived that I cannot, in my heart, believe that was the real Michael Moore. There HAS to be more to this.

Mike was obviously joking, making a statement.

For all practical purposes he has left our side. Sickening. Screw it, we don't need his fat ass. We jsut need to start living our own way. Let the economy collapse.

To those who are sure Mike 'abandoned' us: look at how active he's been in the last YEARS. Leading up to and even during the election he was all gung-ho about not letting the Repugs take advantage of voters. Instead of trying to understand why he 'sold us out', why not start by assuming that since he's been such a reliable fighter for the liberals for so long, there MUST be something up for him to act so weird now, so suddenly.

Think about it - it's like the Repugs saying that since the exit polls didn't match the results, the POLLS must be wrong(!) Why not trust the polls - which have been accurate for years - and ask why the RESULTS are skewed?
Same with Moore - since he's clearly always been on our side and a huge loud-mouth, it's REALLY hard to believe he wouldn't be the loudest anti-Bush voice *especially* after this election - and so we should be asking why he's not himself now. I think (and I've said it on other threads) that either he's onto something big, and laying low for now (on purpose), OR he's scared out of his mind because he was threatened to lay off the election-fraud coverage. Or he was kidnapped and given a lobotomy (One Flew Over...!).

Don't assume you know what's going on, guys. I think something's brewing, or he's been broken by fear. Even a local paper here in Europe mentioned that Moore claimed to have evidence the election was stolen. I don't know where they got that statement, but his (and Kerry's) silence has certainly been deafening.

Honestly though - I think both Moore AND Kerry know more than we do, and whatever their strategy, they're doing it for a reason. With Kerry it's harder to be sure, since his politcal position might complicate matters, but with Moore it's not so hard to see that something very strange is going on. Let's try and be patient - and NOT flood Moore with stupid emails about what a loser he is. That's just lame. He deserves much better than that.

It seemed to me like he was sending us a message............I mean, it is just so out of character for him to have dressed that way...And, the hair etc.

I can't help feeling the same way, his whole appearance was a parody for us. We just have to trust him, and I think it is too late about his email. Once again he has a full box on one of them. At least he will see that TOO subtle is just a little TOO subtle for most people.

Nothing MM did on Leno is permanent. He is up to something, and we need to allow him to play it out. I find it amusing that so many right here on this board are fooled as easily as the neo-conservatives we abhor. Keep your mind open. He hasn't sold anyone out yet.

or....he really is a POD PERSON Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!

MM had cameras all over polling places in FL and OH...and we've heard of all the problems with voter disenfranchisement, so I don't doubt he was able to capture some very interesting footage.

The fact that he had planned to do this was well known. If there is a "plan" being hatched out there it would make sense for those orchestrating the plan to contact him and ask him to put a lid on it...at least for now or until the right time.

In fact I remember reading a quote from him somewhere on DU where after asked if the footage of polling places was going to be used in his next movie he said something like, no this is evidence.

Get a grip folks. To even begin to believe that MM has sold out is preposterous. Why can't you see the subtly in his appearance? Do you not know anything about the man at all?

That was a good way to say it -- the sublety in his appearance! He tried to pull it off and I'm sure he did to the empty headed bush babies. But for those of us who know him, we saw through it! I actually started laughing because I could tell he was trying to appear mainstream, but it wasn't easy, and I wasn't convinced. I bet a lot of right wingers are scratching their heads and daring to believe they might have gotten to him! I don't believe it for a minute, and I can't wait to see him come out swinging with his beard grown back, his belly hanging out and his baseball cap on backwards!
Good try, Mike!
JoMama.

Didn't a not-so-great man once say ....

Er, um, can't get fooled again!
JoMama.

First of all I am not a typical DU:er, I am not even american and I lean politically towards right, but I very much appreciate what you are doing for the validity and honesty of your voting.

In my view, Moore has become mostly laughing stock when credibility is concerned. His views are very one sided, he is most often referred in negative sense by conservatives ("Moore did more to get this election to Bush than anyone, bwahaha"). He is too easy to dismiss by them even when his points are valid.

I think should he want truly be helpful, this is exactly what he should do. I'm sure most of the viewers who were dismissing voting problems would only reinforce their beliefs had Moore started litany of voting problems, "there he goes again". So I think he already did something to help you, most of your "opponents" would have loved to see him do just that.

I believe he understands this. He might be one-sided but he certainly isn't stupid and perhaps he considers this election issue so important that he cannot make mistakes like that. He can dig up vast amounts of information, get publicity. I am absolutely sure he is in the bottom of these elections and will re-emerge in the future.

This is not the down to earth MM, this is an image front, a fascade. I don't know the purpose of appearing in general though, maybe it was booked in advance. But he was saying, 'Hey this is not me'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=203&topic_id=91400&mesg_id=91782&page=

It's all a goofy act.

I'm not even sure he was clean-shaven and wore a suit to his own wedding! I can't believe people wrote to him that he sold out. Oh.My.God. I have a bridge they can buy...

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?q=satire

Entry: satire
Function: noun
Definition: ridicule
Synonyms: banter, burlesque, caricature, causticity, chaffing, irony, lampoon, lampoonery, mockery, parody, pasquinade, persiflage, play on, put-on, raillery, sarcasm, satiricalness, send-up, skit, spoof, squib, takeoff, travesty, wit


When consider we are living in the age of TRAVESTY and another Bush "victory" is a surreal nightmare...Mikey's just having THEM on. Not us...sigh.