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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:09 PM
Original message
Pope Condemns Laws Against Nature
http://www.corriere.it/english/articoli/2007/03_Marzo/14/papa_english.shtml

Warning to Catholics on family and non-negotiable principles. Priests invited to recite principal liturgical prayers in Latin and reintroduce Gregorian chants. No communion for the divorced and remarried
ROME – “Catholic politicians and legislators, conscious of their grave responsibility before society” should not vote for laws that go against “human nature”. In his post-synodal exhortation, Sacramentum Caritatis, the Pope called for Catholics to be coherent in politics, asking them to support “fundamental values, such as respect for human life, its defence” and the “family built upon marriage between a man and a woman”, which are “not negotiable”. But the calls and invitations are also addressed to priests on the liturgy, the return of Latin and the administration of the sacraments.
MARRIAGE – “Marriage and the family are institutions that must be promoted and defended from every possible misrepresentation of their true nature, since whatever is injurious to them is injurious to society itself”, writes Benedict XVI. On the legal recognition of de facto unions, he writes: “The good that the Church and society as a whole expect from marriage and from the family founded upon marriage is so great as to call for full pastoral commitment to this particular area”.
PUBLIC WITNESS – In his text, Benedict XVI stresses the need for Catholics who have public positions to make “public witness of our faith”. This is especially important when it is time to take “decisions regarding fundamental values” and for “the promotion of the common good in all its forms”. The Pope also added that bishops are “”bound to reaffirm constantly” the non-negotiable values since this is “part of their responsibility to the flock entrusted to them”.
MORE LATIN AND GREGORIAN CHANTS – Future priests should “receive the preparation needed to understand and to celebrate Mass in Latin, and also to use Latin texts and execute Gregorian chant”. Believers “can be taught to recite the more common prayers in Latin, and also to sing parts of the liturgy to Gregorian chant”. Benedict XVI speaks up for a liturgy that is closer to tradition and for the promotion of the Latin language. This would serve, according to the document, “to express more clearly the unity and universality of the Church”, “in harmony with the directives of the Second Vatican Council”. “With the exception of the readings, the homily and the prayer of the faithful, such liturgies could be celebrated in Latin, Similarly, the better-known prayers of the Church’s tradition should be recited in Latin and, if possible, selections of Gregorian chant should be sung”.
NO COMMUNION FOR DIVORCED – Benedict XVI reiterated that it is the Church’s practice “of not admitting the divorced and remarried to the sacraments”. This is because “their state and their condition of life objectively contradict the loving union of Christ and the Church signified and made present in the Eucharist”. The divorced and remarried are “a real scourge for contemporary society, and one which increasingly affects the Catholic community as well. The Church’s pastors, out of love for the truth, are obliged to discern different situations carefully, in order to be able to offer appropriate spiritual guidance to the faithful involved”.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
1. Boy, when this pope is through, there will be five people
receiving communion each Sunday at every Catholic church.


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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. More from the the incredible shrinking church.
So divorced people can't take communion? Wow.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Divorced never could.
If individual priests were allowing that to happen, they were acting against church law. The only way for a divorced person to receive communion is for them to have the marriage annulled through the catholic church.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I'd like to know how many republicans couldn't take communion.
that would be a handy list.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That isn't true. If your spouse divorced you, then the spouse was the one in hot water, not you.
So long as YOU kept your vows, you were ok.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. They would have to receive
absolution and live as if they were married, i.e. no dating, no sex with anyone other than the "spouse," etc. It isn't a past tense thing. It's not so long as you "kept" your vows but so long as you "keep" your vows. Once you stop, you are violating the "indissolubility of marriage."

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_14091994_rec-holy-comm-by-divorced_en.html
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Oh certainly. But if they are the "injured" party, they're home free.
It's not the 'divorce' alone that is the issue. It is the conduct after the divorce.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Right, but they can't date.
They can't search out a new, better partner. I think it's screwed up. My wife's parents got a divorce and the church granted an annullement--effectively saying the marriage never took place--when my wife was 21 and they had been married for 30 years. It's a crock.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. You pay for it. You lie and say you weren't in your right mind when you married.
Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, a host of others have forked over the dough. It's silly, IMO. But hey, it's a source of income for the church.

You're also calling your kids a buncha baaaastids, in essence!
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. If your marriage is not annulled, you are still married
My understanding is that it does not matter who instituted legal proceedings or who "broke the vows" first. If the marriage still exists in the eyes of the church, you are still married, end of story.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. That is true. HOWEVER, if one party gets a divorce and REMARRIES, they are in hot water.
They've broken a church law. See the "Mother Angelica" link posted elsewhere in this thread.

The innocent and injured spouse is a-ok in this scenario. It's the philandering and vow-breaking spouse that has trouble with the institution.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. PROVIDED that the innocent spouse remains innocent
If not s/he is just as guilty of adultery as the one who did it first.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Not so. Only if divorced and remarried are they denied communion.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. It is not a given
that the divorced can take communion. They need absolution and a commitment to keep their vows.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Here, Mother Angelica agrees with me.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 06:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. Yes
but that assumes that the abandoned spouse remained true to the marriage vows. If they date someone else, they are then guilty of a sin and cannot receive communion.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. And that sin is not the divorce.
Never argue with a Jesuit.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. what was this guy doing when he was an adolescent? nt
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Aside from joining the Hitler Youth, I think he was . . .
uh.



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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
5. The Catholic Church flew to the right wing
OK. No divorced people allowed to receive the communion.

Back to the 14th century. I hope the generous divorced donors to the Catholic Church take notice.
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Goblinmonger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. When did they ever leave?
None of the stuff in the OP that related to church doctrine is a change. The increase of latin is only a return to the 1960s and not a complete return. And Gregorian chant is AWESOME so people could benefit from an increase of it. Not enough for me to set foot in a catholic church again, but it is cool.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. You'd think
this Pope were trying to woo back Mel Gibson, or something. I've gotta laugh that someone who sits atop a mountain of sexual proscriptions would do any finger-wagging about "laws that go against human nature." Go get laid Benny, it'll do you good.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-26-07 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
18. What do you expect from a Nazi pope?
This isn't about love, compassion, etc. It's about the Pope exercising complete control over a vast religious empire.
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More Than A Feeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
20. What do the Catholics among us think of this pope?
Does he sound desperate to stay relevant to them, too?
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KiraBS Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. I hope his reign is fairly short....
I have to say at my Parish he is only mentioned in the prayers, most don't even talk about him.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-27-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. Typical Aquinas-derived gobbly-gok from the RCC
They get this crap from the same ethical school that says jerking off is a sin. They are stuck in the Middle Ages :eyes:
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
27. Doesn't celibacy go against "human nature"???
What a dinosaur.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-28-07 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. Nothing in there about buggaring little boys, is there?
That doesn't represent the threat to society that divorce and gay unions does. :shrug:
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