Well I'll be damned... atheist god parents?

I have a very dear friend who's expecting his first child this July. I've known him for years, and was even best "man" at his wedding a couple of years ago. My partner and I are supposed to go over to his house for a dinner party tomorrow evening and we're supposed to bring desert (there's a great French patisserie near our house). Anyway, he called me to remind me a few minutes ago and said that he and his wife are planning on asking my partner and I to be god parents to their child.

Wow.

I reminded him that we're atheists, and he said that would be perfect. He was raised Unitarian, his dad is Catholic, his mom is Jewish, his sister is Buddhist and he became an Episcopalian to please his wife before they got married. He feels Will and I will "bring balance" to his baby's life.

Um... wow.

So I asked him what our responsibilities would be. He said Will and I would, of course, have to be present at the christening but would not be expected to pray (we didn't pray at his baptism or wedding either), and that we would be expected to teach his child all about God. Or in this case, all about religions, as many religions, and lackthereof, in the world.

Wow.

I told him that we were flattered, but really taken aback. He said he hoped that we weren't insulted and that he and his wife had spent a long time talking about it (by that, I thinkit means he had to talk her into it, because she's not that crazy about Will and I) and praying about it, and God had told him that Will and I would be the best choice for God parents.

Um... wow.

I don't know how to feel. Will, on the other hand, is already planning on buying the little one a subscription to Jr. Skeptic. I'm more than a little shocked by this...

Accept and celebrate! :D

But probably a key difference is my god-children are also my nephews so this is within the family.

But I'm an "atheist god-parent".

I repeatedly asked my sister if she was sure, made sure she clearly understood I was an atheist - I didn't always consider myself atheist so I had to be sure she understood how certain I'd become the last few years.

They repeatedly said it was fine, they know what I believe and the kind of person I am and that is who they wanted as a moral example for their sons.

They even let me ask tough questions of the deacon at the baptismal class we had to attend. But I didn't push things :)

I was there for the ceremony, I treated it as an opportunity to promise in front of the entire family and her community that I would help raise these children as best I could.

She knows she can trust me to teach her sons about the catholic faith if she and her husband die while the kids are young. She knows I'll give "equal time" to explaining different ways of understanding the world and their lives. She knows she can trust me to teach the kids about how to develop their own worldview and moral compass and she trusts me to set a good example.

So it's flattering and because I love the little guys it feels right because this is the kind of commitment I want to make to them. And she and her husband are open minded about such things.

I can see that it could be a lot less comfortable for someone outside your family.

Being a godparent involves accepting an obligation to teach the faith that your partner (by preparing to buy a subscription to Jr Skeptic) clearly has no intention of carrying out. If your friend thinks that such a negligence of fulfilling the obligations of the position is bringing "balance" then he might as well not even have the child baptized.

on edit: here is a description of what Godparents should be from the Anglican Church in Canada which is the Canadian version of the Episcopalian Church. Consider if you and your partner are right for the job. Do you really feel that you can "represent the community of faith"?

http://www.anglican.nb.ca/pgrbay/baptism/godprtjd.html

Consider if you and your partner are right for the job. Do you really feel that you can "represent the community of faith"?

My friend seems to think that we're "uniquely qualified" to do the job because we don't have religion. I think he wants an influence in his child's life to reflect the religious diversity he grew up with.

I mean, picking out somebody to be responsible for the kid's religious upbringing because he has no religion.

Mildly and humorously subversive. I think I like the idea.

The official instructions in the Book of Common Prayer (U.S. version) say, "Parents and godparents are to be instructed in the meaning of baptism, in theri duties to help the new Christians grow in the knowledge and love of God, and in their responsibilities as members of the Church."

Your role as godparents will be to first say, together with the parents:

"I present (name of baby) to receive the Sacrament of Baptism."

The priest then asks, "Will you be responsible for seeing that the child you present is brought up in the Christian faith and life?"

The parents and godparents respond, "I will, with God's help."

Priest: "Will you by your prayers and witness help this child to grow into the full stature of Christ?"

Response: "I will with God's help."

You then answer the following questions in place of the child:

Do you renounce Satan and all the spiritual forces of wickedness that rebel against God?
Do you renounce the evil powers of this world which corrupt and destroy the creatures of God?
Dio you renounce all sinful desires that draw you from the love of God?
Do you turn to Jesus Christ and accept him as your Savior?
Do you put your whole trust in his grace and love?
Do you promise to follow and obey him as your Lord?

If you can't do this, then you should probably refuse.

Now you may be good "backup parents" for this couple, i.e. the ones who will raise the child if something happens to the parents, but that is not necessarily the same as being a godparent.

We'll talk tonight about what they're planning. I know that their priest is less conventional than most- she allowed them to use their own vows at their wedding for instance (they also used "The Book of Common Prayer as well, so there were also very traditional elements).

My friend seems absolutely convinced that God is telling him Will and I should be God parents.

... why shouldn't these be tweaked also?

People of all religions and no religion get married. Couples can and do shop around to find the clergyperson or judge who will agree to the kind of ceremony they want.

Baptism is specifically initiation into the Christian church. I must have witnessed hundreds of baptisms in my 50+ years as a Lutheran and Episcopalian, and I've never seen any significant deviation from the forms printed in the service books of those denominations.

... ceremony. Are you suggesting that because a ceremony is a Christian one that it can't be (or ought not be) modified?

>> I've never seen any significant deviation from the forms printed in the service books of those denominations. <<

I don't doubt that what you say is true. But does the fact that you've never personally witnessed any variations mean that they have never happened? Does that mean that it can't or shouldn't occur?

that I've seen in the same period.

One doesn't even have to be a Christian to be married in a Christian church (Japanese Buddhists do it all the time, because they like the white wedding look), but one becomes a Christian by being baptized. That's the difference.

And if that's not the only way to become a Christian... then it doesn't seem to be too big a deal to tweak the words of the ceremony. These aren't mystical words to a magic spell, are they? It's not like they are the ingredients to some Christian-souffle that must be measured and mixed in just the right order.

All the non-Baptist denominations recognize one another's baptisms (i.e. if you're baptized Catholic and decide to turn Episcopalian or Methodist or Presbyterian or Greek Orthodox or any one of a number of other denominations, you don't have to be baptized again and vice versa), but if you transfer from denomination to another, you usually have to go through confirmation or a similar process.

When I switched from Lutheran to Episcopalian, I went through a ceremony called "reception."

But my Lutheran baptism was considered valid.

:shrug:

"accepting Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior" ... one must be baptized in order to be a true Christian?

Baptism has been the ceremonial mark of becoming a Christian since Biblical times. (The apostles go around baptizing people in the Book of Acts.)

It's a two-step process. You have your conversion experience, and then you go get baptized to mark your official entrance into whatever Christian denomination you choose. One could be a solitary Christian, I suppose, but part of the essence of the experience is belonging to a community, so most people get baptized.

The closest secular equivalent would probably be falling in love and then deciding to move in together. Baptism is the "move in together" part.

... and has never been baptized, they're safe from going to hell, right? It's enough to just declare one's self as being a Christian, I'm guessing.

so I wouldn't know. :-)

I don't think they do either. :-)

...he wants Will and I to meet with his wife and the priest to come up with a way for us to affirm that we will support and assist in raising the child in the church but not to affirm that we ourselves are Xian. I'm not sure how this will work out, but he seems to think it won't be a problem.

My fiance and I are godless parents to the children of my best friend and his wife who are Catholic. Its nice to know that beliefs don't have to be devisive. :D

He didn't vote for Bush this time, but he did last time. We took him to see F9/11 last summer when my folks came for a visit. He's a great guy who's very open-minded, spiritually speaking. His folks are a mixed-faith couple who've been together for nearly 40 years and made a conscious decision to raise their kids UU to respect both sets of beliefs.

Under Clinton the Sec of Def was a repug UU.

I suspect my friend was on the path to repug/lite but his wife and us worked on him and now he is fully in the dem/left side.

without believing in God? And you're nominally Catholic? Or what?

I'm not at all questioning that you and your wife are good influences on your friend's children. I'm just trying to figure out whether you are official Godparents to them because I don't see how that could be.

... and an honor and a responsibility.

-- Allen

Will and I aren't planning on becoming parents, and I'm not at all close to my actual brother, so I don't get to see my nephews very much at all. But this friend is like a brother to me (his parents call me their third daughter) and I'm very excited for him. I've already begun knitting little booties and onesies. They've decided not to find out if they're having a boy or a girl, so I'm making everything in shades of green, one of the colors of my alma mater, the University of Oregon. You can't start too early encouraging higher education you know...

The christening was interesting - I had to reject Satan and his works and his lies and proclaim fealty to Christ as part of the ceremony. My godson's mom was certain I would giggle. I did not.

I LOVE the Jr. Skeptic idea! I think I'm going to do likewise - what's the recommended age range for that publication?

It's published by the Skeptics Society. You can see back issues of Jr. Skeptic online here. A membership, which includes the magazine subscription, is a modest $30 a year:

http://www.skeptic.com/

I remember when Jr. Skeptic was launched. At the Skeptics Society convention in 1996, one of the award winners was 9-yr-old Emily Rosa. With her mother, a nurse, Emily designed a school science-fair project to test the idiotic scam known as "Therapeutic Touch."

Her science fair project ended up in the Journal of the American Medical Association.

It was partly in honor of that accomplishment that the Society decided to add "Jr. Skeptic" to the magazine.

I guess most people know about "Jr. Skeptic" because Lisa Simpson started reading it on the TV show.

My godparents (my aunt & uncle) didn't do a damn thing regarding my spiritual growth, even though we were all Lutherans. Maybe up here being a godparent is just an honorary title.

I think you & your partner will do just fine. Just be there for his questions and answer them the best you can!

and I made sure my brother was clear that I am atheist, not just agnostic, and he was cool with that. For a lot of families it's as much a social thing between the parents anyway, but I'm happy to give him moral advice should he ever need it.

I even had the bonus of not attending the baptism - they booked it during a long-planned vacation of mine, and my parents ended up taking the vows on my behalf.

is part of the balance they are looking for. You will be the perfect God-Parents because you are capable of separating ethics from dogma, archetype from illusion. Apparently the child will have plenty of people around to explain various religions to him, and his father actually wants somebody who can balance all that by saying, "think of it as poetry, not literally true, but bringing to light certain points of morality and ethics". Help this kid trash the politics and see the single ethical thread that passes through all true religions, once you have stripped away the politics and the foolish, childish, literal interpretations. Yes, do the kid a favor and separate out the politics, the dogma, the reasonable from the poetry for him. And remember, one of the most important responsibilities of God Parents is that they are expected to adopt and raise the child in the unexpected event of the death of it's parents. Is that why your friends have chosen you? Perhaps they think you would make the best parents if they don't survive long enough to parent the child. And maybe you sort of need a child? Have you any of your own? Some parents just use God-parenting as a means of sharing thier children to childless couples. The fun of childrearing increases exponentially with the addition of others who also are delighted by the child. The more you share the kid, the more fun it is. I actually wrote my kids god-parents into my will, as legally appointed guardians in the event of my death.