10 myths — and 10 Truths — About Atheism

This may have been posted before, but I was interested in people's thoughts.



The article and discussion points continue at http://www.samharris.org/site/full_text/10-myths-and-10-truths-about-atheism1/

While I can see some truth in that list, I also find it contradictory. For example 1, 3, 5, 6, 8 and 10 I would agree are correctly identified as "myths" if they are alleged to apply to all atheists:

1. Atheists believe that life is meaningless.
3. Atheism is dogmatic.
5. Atheism has no connection to science.
6. Atheists are arrogant.
8. Atheists believe that there is nothing beyond human life and human understanding.
10. Atheism provides no basis for morality.

Interestingly, some atheists argue that atheism has no connnection to any other epistemological system ("it's only the absence of belief in god and nothing else"), yet this site says (at 5) that atheism and science are indeed connected.

2. is an historically inaccurate cop-out. Religion has been responsible for atrocities and so have the atheist totalitarian regimes of the 20th century:

2. Atheism is responsible for the greatest crimes in human history.

One need only read some of the documents released from the Soviet and Khmer Rouge archives, to come to the conclusion that some of the atrocities committed were a result of fanatical atheism. Why some atheists cannot admit this is always puzzling to me.

The spirituality "myths" listed seem contradictory to me. I also think that the author does not recognize that the public stances taken by some high profile atheists may be contributing to the "myths" listed in the article.

Would you like to prove that bullshit about Stalin and the Khmer Rouge? They killed people who believed in God is that what you are saying?
Having family who came from Russia..I can tell you that the slaughters there were about killing DIFFERENT ethnic/religious groups AND not because they were religious.
Atheists object to this MEME because it is patently untrue, whatever YOU believe.
Dictators are dictators for their love of power not cause they are "atheists". Where as slaughter of other religious groups in the name of God is WELL documented.

I don't think any amount of evidence would convince you of this commonly accepted historical fact.

Btw, being a descendent of victims of Russian oppression does not give you a genetically transmitted knowledge of what was in the Soviet, Khmer Rouge or Chinese communist party archives.

But anyway, here is a document from the Soviet archives -- one out of millions of pages of documents -- that explains in great detail and indeed a certain amount of theoretical coherence, why religion is an enemy of the socialist revolution and must be suppressed. This document does not directly sanction violent suppression (although given what happened to other enemies of the revolution it's kind of predictable what would happen), but it is a fascinating insight into the theoretical position of the communist party. In particular, it makes a fascinating argument for why religion was blocking the transformation of the means of production and relations of production. To make one complicated argument-story short, the peasants could not control natural forces like rainfall; they therefore "paid" the church for supernatural intervention to control nature; the introduction of tractors and irrigation, the transformation of the means of production and relations of production in agriculture required the destruction of peasant relgion. Notice the number of technological metaphors used:

http://rationalrevolution.net/special/library/cc835_41.htm

RELIGION IN THE, U.S.S. R. MILITANT ATHEISM BECOMES A MASS MOVEMENT - 1934

Webmaster's note: The term propaganda is frequently used throughout this document. It should be noted that the word propaganda did not take on a negative connotation until after the end of World War II, because of its association with the German Ministry of Propaganda. Propaganda simply means "official information". This must be kept in mind when reading the following document.


EXHIBIT No. 41

The epoch-making changes which are taking place in all branches of the national economy in the U.S.S.R. must necessarily be accompanied by correspondingly sharp changes in the ideology of the great masses.

The soil that fostered the ideology of the Russian workers in the period of tsarist reaction is now being deeply plowed up by lumbering tractors on the collective and state farms; the choicest seeds of Leninism are being sown on a vast expanse of territory stretching, over one-sixth of the surface of the globe. Years of stubborn and, persistent toil have prepared this soil to receive this seed. Now that the sewers have grown up, have been trained and prepared for their task, we garner the rich harvest they sowed. Witness the mass antireligious movement, which is one of the consequences of the enormous social-economic changes which are taking place in our country.

The program of our Party says:

The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is guided by the conviction that only the conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses will cause religious prejudices to die out completely. The Party stands for the complete dissolution of the ties between the exploiting classes and organized religious propaganda, and facilitates the real emancipation of the working masses from religious prejudices by organizing the widest possible scientific, educational, and antireligious propaganda.

Thus religious beliefs will be destroyed not primarily by anti­religious propaganda, but by the conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses.

This does not imply that the Party should or does ignore the use of antireligious propaganda, which helps to form the new atheist conceptions of the broad toiling masses. Tile basis of this movement, however, rests on the fact that the working class is winning in its struggle against the capitalist forms of economy that the working class is rebuilding the whole of the country in accordance with socialist ideas that it is not the old Russia, but the workers, 'the most suitable standard-bearers of atheism, the leaders of the socialist revolution, who are building giant state farms, who are building the mighty Dnieper Dam and the large tractor works, who are marching to victory despite the malevolent plotting of the exploiters of all the world: The Pyatifetka (Five-Year Plan) in the realm of construction embodies that "conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses" which the party program refers to as the greatest force which will bring in its wake "the dying-out of religious prejudices."

Under the leadership and influence of the proletariat, the peasants are turning to a new form of economy, socialized economy. More and more we find them adopting the new technique and freeing themselves from and subduing the dominion of the elemental forces of nature.

These victories over nature, over these elemental forces, are of paramount importance in the work of freeing the great peasant masses from the stupefying influence of religion. In a few more years the masses of peasants organized in the collective and state farms will, with the use of the mighty technique of the proletarian state and with the help of the mighty fertilizers at work upon new and hitherto untilled fields, be able to free themselves from the last remnants of the influence Of religion which the exploiters had almost indelibly imprinted on their minds in the course of centuries.

It must be pointed out that in this process, the cultural revolution, the logical concomitant of all these profound changes in the national economy of our country, plays a very important part.

Take for example the Christmas holidays, December 25, 26, and 27. In the village of Borodino, the peasants arranged a mass festival of socialist culture. About two thousand people, poor and middle peasants, came from all part of the country and without a single dissenting voice closed down two of the three churches in the village. They installed machinery in one church and turned it into a collective farm mill; in the other they opened up a home for socialist culture with a number of assembly rooms, a library, rooms for study circles, moving pictures, and radio.

But all this was made possible only because the peasant masses had joined this mighty movement and because of the influence of the mass collectivization of the farms in this region.

Illiteracy has been almost completely wiped out in this village, and two-thirds of the adult population regularly visit the village reading room. This room was set up without a single kopek being spent by the state, as was also an elementary school, another school for knitting and sewing, a living newspaper, a Young Pioneer detachment, a creche for babies, and a library. Out of every three homes, two subscribe to newspapers, and in every home there are two who go to the library. This is something entirely new in the Russian village; Here they are making short shrift with all the vestiges of the old regime.

Hand-in-hand with this work of reconstructing our economy, we are making great progress in remolding the consciousness of the masses. We see in this an assurance that the work of the atheists will be crowned with success and this explains why militant atheism has become not only a mass movement in the cities, but throughout the whole countryside.

This is of tremendous significance in view of the fact that all our work towards carrying out the Pyatiletka the industrialization of the country, the collectivization of agriculture, as well as our entire cultural revolution deals a crushing blow to all exploiters and to their influence over the toiling peasant masses. This is why our. Party finds it easier sailing now than at any time before "to com­pletely dissolve the ties," as our program reads, "between the exploiting classes and organized religious propaganda." The collective farmers will not go to the priest to ask him to propitiate the deity by offering up a prayer to the prophet Elijah or some other saint in the calendar. They will rely solely on the village proletariat to improve the conditions of their work, to combat drought and other elemental forces of nature which affect the well-being of the masses.

A gigantic movement against religious organizations is going on in the collective farms, in favor of dropping out of religious societies of removing church bells, closing down churches and remodeling them to meet the new secular cultural requirements of the masses Only a few months ago, this movement bore an entirely different character. Indeed, before our very eyes, quantity has been trans­formed into quality. There is not the slightest doubt that these two "fronts" on which we work on the destruction of the material roots of religion, and atheist propaganda are evidences of the many-sided activities of the proletariat which, in the aggregate, seeks not only to explain the world, but to remake it.

Lenin, as early as 1909, pointed out in his article, "The Attitude of the Workers' Party Towards Religion," that:

To draw a hard and fast line between the theoretical propagation of atheism, between breaking down the religious beliefs of certain sections of the proletariat; and the effect, the development, the general implications of the class struggle of these sections, is to reason non-dialectically-to transform a variable, relative boundary into an absolute one. It is a forcible tearing asunder of that which is Indissolubly connected in reality.

While in 1909 this was true only of the advanced strata of the proletariat, to-day the situation has changed, for today the great masses of the working class have already been drawn into the atheist movement. We must lay great emphasis on Lenin's words, and not "fall either into the abstract, wordy and in fact futile revolutionism of the anarchist, or into the philistinism and opportunism of the petty bourgeois, or liberal intellectual, who shirks the fight against religion, forgets his tasks, reconciles himself to a belief in god, and who is guided, not by the interests of the class struggle, but by petty, mean calculations such as: not to offend, not to repel, not to frighten; and who is governed by the wise rules 'Live and let live,' etc., etc."

Industrialization Day, which has now replaced the religious holi­day known as the Day of the Transfiguration, has shown to what extent not only the great ,masses of workers, but the, peasants too, are aware of the problems of industrialization. This is a tremendously successful day. And it must be pointed out that vast numbers even of seemingly the most fervent religious devotees have during > recent years begun to adopt antireligious views. We see this change also among the Jews, the Mohammedans and others. On such, strict Jewish holidays as the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) and New Year's Day, ,they arranged special "subbotniks" among the Jewish workers, artisans, employees and peasants, and the proceeds went to the industrialization fund. These ,"subbotniks" were highly successful everywhere. The Jews who year after year had spent these same days in the synagogues, now went to the factories and workshops, collected scrap iron, cleaned up the factory yards or worked in the fields. After this first "Industrialization Day" a great deal of antireligious work began. There is no doubt whatever that the resolutions of the Second Congress of Militant Atheists which laid down as its fundamental plan that the Union of Militant Atheists must become a mass atheist organization, played a very great part in effecting recent changes. The membership of the Union of Militant Atheists has more than doubled in a year and a half. In Kronstadt, for instance, prior to the anti-Christmas campaigns, it had six thousand members, whereas after the campaign ,the membership rose to ten thousand. The newspaper "Bezbozhnik" (The Atheist) increased in circulation to 350,000. This increased interest was largely due. to the ,initiative of a large number of organizations which until then had been rather indifferent to the necessity of antireligious propaganda.

Those who argue that up till now, we have used only "light artillery" in our antireligious propaganda, and that now we must use "heavy artillery"-Marx, Engels, and Lenin-are wrong. Our Party programs and all our resolutions regarding the question of religion are permeated with the spirit of this "heavy artillery"-Marx, Engels, and Lenin. The point is that now the scope of our activities has become much wider since the masses have awakened and are joining the movement. We must work untiringly to develop a consistent materiaiistic philosophy among the masses. And Lenin repeatedly emphasized that:

A Marxist could not make a worse mistake than to think that the many millions of people (particularly peasants and artisans) who are condemned by modern society to ignorance, illiteracy and prejudices can extricate themselves from this ignorance only by following the straight line of purely Marxist education. It is essential to give these masses the greatest variety of atheist propaganda material to acquaint them with farts from the most diversified fields of life. Every way of approach to them must be tried iit order to interest them, to rouse them from their religious slumber, to shake them up by most varied ways, and means. (Lenin, Religion, p. 31.)

The atheist movement has become a mass movement even beyond the confines of the Soviet Union. A number of facts go to prove
that this movement is gaining ground also in other countries. A growth in the antireligious movement is observed particularly among the great masses of working class Jews in Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Belgium, England, America, Germany and other countries. In Warsaw, for example, on the. Jewish New Year's Day, 15 mass demonstrations were held, which were dispersed by the police. Demonstrations were also held in Polish provincial towns, in Latvia, New York and elsewhere. Priests are beginning to complain of the drop in their incomes and of the decline of religion.
Despite, or because of, the fact that religious organizations are supported by social democratic as well as avowedly bourgeois and fascist organizations, there is no doubt whatever that the above­mentioned facts concerning the anti-religious movement will intensify the campaign of lies and slander now being waged by all the pillars of the church against the Soviet Union. The exploiters of all countries fully realize that the experience of the work of socialist construction, which is going on throughout the length and breadth of the U.S.S.R., in town and country, will be of enormous significance for the workers in other countries.

The Five-Year Plan, which maps out our economic construction, is riveted to another and a concurrent Five- Year Plan designed to tear up the roots of religion. The vast army of exploiters and priests of all the religious creeds all over the world realize that the day when the earth will tremble beneath their feet is drawing near. That is why the rise of the mass atheist movement imposes upon the Communist Parties the task of increasing the anti-religious struggle.

The Social Democrats organize Free Thinkers' Societies and Re­ligious Societies simultaneously. The Communist Parties must penetrate into all anti-religious organizations in which the masses take part and must take control of this movement of the masses, link it up with the movement of the class struggle of the proletariat, and bend the tasks of the anti-religious to the task of this class movement.

The workers and peasants of our Party occupy the key position also in this movement. It is imperative for us to increase the im­portance of this central position in anti-religious propaganda. We have certain institutions that can be of great assistance. For example, our anti-religious museum, the first of its kind, which, in spite of all its deficiencies, has attracted the attention of all those interested in the anti-religious movement.- An anti-religious center must be created to assist the Commnnist Parties of all countries to guide this con­stantly-growing movement against religion and the clergy, because this is a part of the class struggle and as such is not only inevitable, but an essential part of the struggle against the capitalist world, part of the struggle for Communism.

COMMUNISTS AND RELIGION


Why must every Leninist know the correct Communist attitude towards religion?

Why is every class-conscious worker and peasant who wants to join the Communist Party confronted with the question of religion? What have the Communists to do with god? Why are they concerned with religion? Does it make any difference to the prospects of the victory of communism whether a Communist believes in a God or gods and goddesses, or in evil spirits, or not? Is it, not possible to be a Communist and at the same time believe in religion, i. e., believe that the whole world is controlled by a god, or a number of gods, and that everything on earth is done by the will of these gods or of their assistants-the saints, or the malice of evil spirits-devils, fiends, Satan? Is it possible to live without believing in god and yet preserve "morality"?

Millions of workers and peasants who have not yet entered the road to communism ask themselves these questions, and thousands of workers who are sympathetic towards the Communist Party waver on the question of religion. Their belief in god, or in gods, their belief that without religion, without faith, without religious rites they will not know how to live right, prevent them from joining the ranks of the Communist Party. The worker in the city c n more easily free himself from religious beliefs than rural workers. It is easier for young people to abandon religious beliefs; their beliefs are not so firmly rooted. It is much more difficult for old folks to shake oft" these beliefs. And as a rule it is still more difficult for women to get away from religion than men.

Every Leninist, every Communist, every class-conscious worker and peasant must be a le to explain why a Communist cannot support religion; why Communists fight against religion; and every Com­munist must be able to answer the questions p t to him by his fellow workers on this subject, he must know and understand why the Soviet Government has separated the church from the state, and the school from the church.

Program of the C. P. S. U. on the question of religion:

What is a program? The program of a party is the full statement of the demands and views of the party on all phases of its activities. The party program explains the struggle of the various classes in modern society, and how this society develops. Our program contains our Party's demands on all questions concerning social life.
On questions of religion we had to express ourselves with precision and clarity. What does our program say on these questions? In paragraph 13 we read:

With regard to religion, the Communist Party of the Soviet Union does not confine itself to the already decreed separation of church and state and of school and church, i. e., measures advocated in the programs of bourgeois democracy, which the latter has nowhere consistently carried out to the end owing to the diverse and actual ties which bind capital with religious propaganda.

The Communist Party of the Soviet Union is guided by the conviction that only conscious and deliberate planning of all the social and economic activities of the masses will cause religious prejudices to die out. The Party strives for the complete dissolution of the ties between the exploiting classes and the organizations of religious propaganda, facilitates the real emancipation of the working masses from religious prejudices and organizes the widest possible scientific educational and anti-religious propaganda. At the same time it is necessary to carefully avoid giving offense to the religious sentiments of believers, which only leads to to the strengthening of religious fanaticism. (The Program and Rules of the C. P. S. U., pp. 20-21.)

The program of the Communist International also states clearly that Communists fight against religion, as it is a counter-revolutionary force, an ally and a weapon of the bourgeoisie in its struggle against the revolutionary movement. .

We will try to state more simply what the program of the C. P. S. U. says on the question of religion, and then we will explain it in detail.

On January 23, 1918, the Soviet Government issued a decree separating the church from the state, and the schools from the church. We will speak in detail about this decree later on. But our Party is not content with passing this law, for this law alone does not yet destroy the power of religion and of the church, it only weakens it. Laws separating the church from the state, and the schools from the church, have been passed not only by the Soviet Government but also by the governments in capitalist countries. But in these capital­ist countries the bourgeoisie put these laws on their statute books only for the sake of appearances, to give in to the demands of the people, while in reality they retain the connection between the church and the state, between religion and the state, and between religion and organized capital in the state. In fact, in almost all the capitalist countries the church still enjoys enormous power and tremendous wealth; and to this very day, inmost capitalist countries it still wields power in both the state and the school.

Take, for instance, Italy, where in 1929, the power of the Pope the head of the Catholic Church was reestablished. In accordance with a treaty concluded with the leader of the fascists, Mussolini, the Pope was recognized as the head of the Vatican State, formed within the territory of the city of Rome. Of course, in return for this, the clergy gives still greater support to the fascists. In Germany, and in many other states, the governments likewise invest the church with far reaching rights. In the U.S.S.R., the law separating the church from the state, and the school from the church, has been actually carried out. But the law does not abolish religious organiza­tions, nor does it prohibit religion. Our Party is. convinced that only when all social life, including economic life, proceeds according to a conscious, well. thought-out plan, will religion lose its authority over the peasantry and over the working class.

This is why our Party is trying first of all to prevent the capitalists of all countries from- using religious organizations to deceive the peasant and working masses, as they are doing now. We expose the class basis of religion, that is, we lay bare the class motives of those who are interested in upholding and spreading religious beliefs. Secondly, our Party conducts a struggle against religious prejudices and religious beliefs by propagating science and general education, through books, newspapers, lectures, moving pictures, etc., all directed against religion and religious deception.
As already stated, our program expressly warns all Communists and Marxists that they must, in carrying out this work act in a way that will give no avoidable offense to the sentiments of believers, because, by intentionally outraging the feelings of believers, they will only confirm them in their religious convictions.

DECREES OF THE SOVIET GOVERNMENT ON THE SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE, AND OF THE SCHOOL FROM THE CHURCH

On January 23, 1918, the Soviet Government issued a decree on the disestablishment of the church. This decree reads as follows:

Decree of the Soviet of People's Commissars on the Separation of the Church from the State, and of the School from the Church (January 23, 1918):

1. The church is hereby separated from the state.

2. It is unlawful to pass any local law or issue any decree whatsoever within
the territory of the Republics, which will restrict or limit the liberty of conscience or grant any advantage or privilege whatsoever to any citizen on the basis of his religious profession.

3. Every citizen may profess any religion he desires or profess no religion; all laws disfranchising any citizen by reason of his profession or non-profession of faith are hereby repealed.
Note: No reference is to be made in any official document to the profession or
non-profession of religion by any citizen.

4. No proceedings of any state or other official public body shall be accompanied by any religious rites or ceremonies whatsoever.

5. The right to perform religious rites is hereby guaranteed in so far as no breach of the peace is committed and the performance does not infringe upon any of the rights of any citizen of the Soviet Republic. Local authorities have the right in such cases to take all the measures necessary to safeguard public order and security.

6. No person may refuse to fulfill any civic obligation on the ground of his religious convictions. Exceptions to this rule may be made on the condition that another civic obligation is performed in substitution for the one declined, but this must in each separate case be considered by the People's Court.

7. Religious vows, or oaths, are abolished. Whenever necessary solemn
affirmation to tell the truth is made.

8. Registration of births, marriages, deaths, etc., are performed exclusively by the civil authorities and the departments for the registration of marriages and births.

9. The school is hereby separated from the church. The teaching of religious
doctrines is not permitted in any state, public, or private educational institution where general educational subjects are taught. Citizens may give or receive religious instructions privately.

10. All ecclesiastical and religious societies are subject to the general conditions governing private societies and associations, and shall not receive any privilege or subsidy from any state, local, autonomous or self-governing body.

11. No compulsory collection of dues or assessments for the benefit of ecclesiastical or religious societies is permitted, nor may any measures of compulsion or
punishment of fellow-members be taken by such societies.

12. No ecclesiastical or religious society whatsoever, has the right to own
private property, nor does any such society enjoy the rights of a judicial person.

13. All the property of the existing ecclesiastical and religious societies in Russia becomes the property of the people. The local or central state authorities may, by special decree, place the buildings and objects specially intended for ,worship at the service of the given religious society free of charge.

What are the tasks and duties of the League of Militant Atheists during this period?

Primarily, to conduct serious work among the masses, because the demands of these masses, even of the most backward groups among whom the influence of religion is still strong, have become more serious. In our work among religious people we must bear in mind Lenin's advice to utilize every method available to us, or, as he said, we must "approach them this way and that way" in order to stimulate them to criticize religion themselves. This work has not yet been properly developed. We must also work out the proper methods and produce the necessary mass literature which will meet the require­ments of these backward groups and of religious people.

We must observe that the past fifteen years of struggle for con­sistently Leninist militant atheism have been years of struggle against every attempt to restrict the tasks of the struggle in an op­portunist manner, or to give the struggle an anarchist-rebel turn. We have fought against the substitution of "pure" education, mere anticlericalism, priestophobia, for militant atheism. But at the same time we have also combated the tendency to draw a distinction between our educational work and the exposure of the class role of religion. We have linked up every step in our educational work among the masses with the task of exposing the social roots of religion. We have fought against the opportunist attempts to liquidate antireligious work on the pretext that religion is dying in the U.S.S.R. anyway. But we have also fought resolutely against the theory that religion can be wiped out in no time-that all that is re­quired is to use strong language. This struggle on two fronts was one of the necessary conditions of the victory which we have gained on the antireligious front.
This victory would have been impossible without an intense ideological struggle in the field of philosophy. For this reason the League of Militant Atheists has been closely connected with the Society of Militant Dialectical Materialists and they together have fought both against the Mechanists and against Menshevik idealism. I may remind you that the magazine, the Atheist (Bezboshnik), was the first to start the struggle against the philosophical mistakes of Deborin's school. The defect of this struggle at first was that we did not criticize the Mechanists with sufficient sharpness; but this defect was subsequently rectified. The struggle against the Mechanists and the influence of Menshevik idealism in the field of antireligious propaganda, continues to be one of our most important tasks. While we do not refuse to cooperate with the inconsistent Materialists in the antireligious struggle, we must, however, expose their mistakes; we must sharply define our own viewpoint, sharply criticize every incon­sistency on this sector of the ideological front.

We have continued and must continue to criticize very strongly those who underestimate the importance of atheist propaganda; for this underestimation was one of the results of the underestimation of the role of Lenin and of Leninism as marking a new stage in the struggle for a consistent materialist world outlook. This was the particular weakness of the Deborin school, and this was precisely the reason why the magazine, Under the Banner of Marxism, failed, under its old leadership, to fulfill the task placed before it by V. I. Lenin. That is precisely why the magazine and the Society of Militant Dialectical Materialists must now devote much more attention to the problems of antireligious propaganda. That is pre­cisely why it is necessary to introduce ideological clarity in the whole of the work of the Union of Militant Atheists and to combat every deviation from the consistent Marxiam-Leninist line in our work.

Particularly immense are our tasks in our antireligious work among the various nationalities in the U. S. S. R. which are only now beginning ,to awaken to a real life-which are only beginning to develop their own culture. Among many of the nationalities the relics of pre-revolutionary ideology are still great the influence of the mullah, rabbi, shamans, lamas, etc., is still strong. The literature these nationalities possess is too poor for antireligious propaganda and they have almost no translated literature. The methods of work among the various nationalities are not yet suffi­ciently differentiated; plans for this work have not yet been prepared thoroughly. That is why it is necessary to train cadres, to study and explain the various problems, and to conduct a serious work of popularization.

Our entire work must be more closely than ever linked up with the work of the Proletarian Free-Thinkers International. The atheist movement has made giant strides in many countries. No punitive measures against the Proletarian Free-Thinkers Interna­tional can stop this mass movement now that it has begun. The suppression of the League of Militant Atheists in Germany, as many observers, even from the bourgeois camp, admit, only led to the further strengthening of godlessness, to open defections from the church, to withdrawal from the parishes, etc. The growth of godlessness in the United States, the closing of churches in other countries, are inevitable accompaniments of the decay of capitalism. Of course, in these countries, too, the priests are trying to adapt themselves to the social changes that are taking place. Whenever necessary they even flirt with socialist theories. But, the exposure of the role of the church and of religion will proceed at a growing pace in the countries of capitalism and create a mighty army of militant atheists throughout the world.
The only country in which the antireligious movement is able to develop openly, broadly, unhindered is the U. S. S. R. Our experi­ence is of the greatest importance to every nation. We must never forget that by our work we are rendering assistance to our foreign comrades. We must deeply internationalize our work so that every atheist should regard his work as part of our international struggle against religion and the church.

The League of Militant Atheists has always closely linked its work with that of the Proletarian Free-Thinkers International. In the columns of the press of the League of Militant Atheists we inform our members and the workers generally of the work of the League, and of the struggle taking place within the Proletarian Free-Thinkers International. The delegates of our League took a most vigorous part in the defense of this international, against the demoralizing petty­bourgeois influence of the social-fascist leaders of the type of Sivers, Hartwig, etc. The latter sought to utilize the international in order to subject the entire atheist movement to the interests of the bour­geoisie, to deprive atheist propaganda of its revolutionary sting, to convert the militant atheism of the masses of the workers and peasants into a liberal movement of bourgeois freethinkers. We have exposed their role. We did not allow the Siverses and Hartwigs to convert the Proletarian Free-Thinkers International into an appendage of the bourgeoisie. Thanks to this, the International continues to exist and grow throughout the world as an organization of militant atheists. It is our duty to do even more than we have done to make the antireligious movement, not only in the U.S.S.R., but in the capitalist countries as well, a movement of vast millions.

We are entering the sixteenth year of the proletarian revolution with great gains to our account in the field of atheism. But these gains are insufficient; our work must be improved, consolidated, expanded, deepened. The banner of militant atheism must be raised still higher. Propaganda in favor of militant atheism must be carried on more widely, must become deeper and more serious. The ranks of the militant atheists must be increased to include millions.

Remember that the struggle against religion is a struggle for socialism!

Which has NOTHING to do with atheism. It is anti-theism.

The Russian Orthodox Church was a part of the power structure which oppressed the Russian people, and 99% of the reaction to that was anti-theism.

The structure of the communist party was intent on destroying the old structures which could be used as a focus against them. They deliberately conflated atheism with anti-theismn and called it a socialist objective, but it was just propaganda.

The soviet regime was creating itself as, essentially, a new religion - one without gods, but with its own saints (Marx, Lenin) and fallen angels (Trotsky).

Their co-opting atheism is as much an affront to atheism as any Torquemada.

I agree that a number of things are going on in that document -- atheism, anti-theism, and one you omitted, anti-clericalism (which is opposition aimed more at church institutions and personnel than ideas).

But the Soviets articulated quite clearly why their atheism required them to pursue the destruction of religion for the sake of the intellectual improvement of the masses (atheism), not just because the church was a potential opposition power structure (anti-clericalism).

If it were just anti-clericalism, against the Orthodox Church, the document wouldn't go into detail about how they were also seeking to suppress the religion of the Jews and "Mohammadans."

To me, trying to make that distinction is an attempt to avoid placing historical responsibility for what some radical atheism has done, the same way that religious institutions refuse to take responsibility for the atrocities that some religious institutions have committed.

of any other religious OR non-religious influence.

What you quoted is, as you said, PROPAGANDA. Propaganda may or may not be truth - what it IS is what you want the people to believe. It might be noted that besides the religious institutions and clergy, the communists eliminated local governmental structures, town councils, city mayors, the aristocracy -- ANYBODY who could organize a power structure that could oppose the soviets.

Their focus was NOT on atheism - it was on consolidating power.

If you believe otherwise, you are just a victim of PROPAGANDA.

All non-communist organizations were either opposed or incorporated. If they had not had an intellectual opposition to religion, the churches would have been incorporated, like the unions, peasant organizations, professional associations, "local governmental structures, town councils, city mayors" and so on, all of which existed in the communist era, so long as they affiliated with the party.

The document you read isn't propoganda, although it's partly about propoganda, or more precisely the progress of propoganda. It's an internal party document that tries to provide an accurate, if cheer-leading, description of the progress of the suppression of religion through propoganda, organizing, legislation and other means.

Besides, this is just one bit of evidence in the overwhelming ocean of evidence, that the communist party suppressed religion because of atheism -- the belief that there is no god and that therefore belief in god is "incorrect" and had to be suppressed.

Few people outside this tiny, little corner of the net would dispute the fact that the Soviets suppressed religion because atheism was official party doctrine.

What is the source? It is obviously a pro-theist website, which is not named, judging the the poorly informed note from the webmaster at the beginning - propaganda was NOT acceptable government information prior to WW2 - the use of propaganda to mold opinion using outright lies was well known long before WW2. Just look at the use of propaganda in WW1, for one thing.

"That document" is obviously a compilation of at least three, maybe five separate documents, compilation done by the biased source. Some are pure propaganda; others are simple listing of facts - the "separation of church from state, and church from schools" is from the Soviet constitution, I believe.

The millions of deaths by communists have as much to do with atheism and the millions of deaths by crusades had to do with religion - IOW, nothing. It was ALL about power, control, and money. They just used atheism the way the medieval kings used religion to expand their own spheres of influence.

Perhaps you were thrown off by the articles list on the home page which includes an analysis of the Gospel of Mark. But the author is taking the controversial position that there was no historical Jesus, and that the construction of that gospel proves that it was not an historical, but only an alegorical, document.

At any rate, just saying, "I don't like what the document says, therefore it is fake," isn't a very convincing argument.

There is no controversy among professional historians that Soviet communist party suppressed religion for atheist ideological reasons, not just power political reasons.

I don't even understand why some believe it's impossible to be an atheist and acknowledge this simply historical fact.

Ergo, a theist website.

Atheists may be socialists, but not communists because we will not grant god-like power to the state.

As I pointed out before, communism is a secular religion with its own saints and mythologies. Has nothing to do with atheism. No matter what they might claim.

are you so unable to absorb ideas that conflict with yours that you have to make up stuff? It's a "rationalist," mildly socialist website that is critical of communism -- that's why he posted the document.

So, you've changed your mind? It was in your view a theist website and now in your view it's a militant communist (and therefore atheist) website?

But whatever, dude. What does any of that have to do with the document that proves that atheist communism suppressed religion in the name of militant atheism through the organizational structure of the "League of Belligerant Atheists"?

Communists ARE theists - only they make the state their god.
That is why they can brook no opposition from other religions.

And again, those papers are PROPAGANDA. It is a shame to see someone who is as apparently intelligent as you being taken in by it.

From the Cambodian Genocide Group:

http://www.cambodiangenocide.org/hopes_fears_genocide_bp.htm

Scholars Michael Vickery, David Chandler and Serge Thion all claim the Khmer Rouge never intended the destruction of particular groups of people. Mr Chandler, for example, considered the high death toll under the Khmer Rouge as an unintended consequence of a utopian revolution and Serge Thion sees no evidence for claiming the persecution of the Cham Muslims was based on race or ethnicity. They were, he states, "victims of an attempt to eradicate religion, as a matter of general policy" that included the suppression of Christianity and Buddhism.


Wiki on State Atheism:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, typically by active suppression of religious expression and practice.<1> State atheism has been implemented in communist countries, such as the former Soviet Union,<1> China, North Korea, and Communist Mongolia. In these nations, the governments viewed atheism as an intrinsic part of communist ideology. Consequences of state atheism in these countries include active (and, sometimes, violent) opposition to religion, and persecution of religious institutions, leaders and believers. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,<2> in which social success largely required individuals to proclaim atheism and stay away from churches; this attitude was especially militant under Stalin.<3><4><5> The Soviet Union imposed atheism over wide areas of its influence, including places like central Asia.<6> The only country to officially ban religion was Albania under Enver Hoxha.

"Scholars Michael Vickery, David Chandler and Serge Thion all claim the Khmer Rouge never intended the destruction of particular groups of people."

And

"They were, he states, "victims of an attempt to eradicate religion, as a matter of general policy" that included the suppression of Christianity and Buddhism."

Scholars disagree. Thank you for presenting both sides of the argument, but the paragraph is certainly not supportive evidence of your "well known historical fact". (What's the name of that logical fallacy? Oh, I forgot, you don't name those anymore do you?)

Edit: It is pretty sad when you have to rely on wiki articles and book reviews to support your point. Is that the best you've got?

If you had read at least a significant part of the linked article you would understand.

The Khmer Rouge was being accused of genocide against a particular ethnic and religious minority in Cambodia -- the Cham Muslims. The reason this particular group is important in the prosecution of the Khmer Rouge is that they were almost entirely wiped out, and were a particular group, which means that the charges of genocide don't have to deal with the issues of the incomplete extermination of the larger Cambodian ethnic group, nor the issue of indiscriminacy toward ethnicity.

The scholars argued, however, that the destruction of Khmer Muslims was part of a general attempt to eradicate all religions, not an attempt to eradicate the Cham nor Muslims in particular.

The authorities are not in disagreement at all as to whether the Khmer Rouge's state atheism caused them to eradicate all religion -- only as to whether there was also an ethnic genocide against particular ethnic/religious group:

They were, he states, "victims of an attempt to eradicate religion, as a matter of general policy ..."


As for your evidence -- you present none, assuming that "snark" does not constitute "evidence." Also, where do you get this is a book review? (And what if it were?) Please try to read more carefully: It's an article from a Thai newspaper about pending genocide trials presented on the website of a Yale University based NGO that studies the Cambodian genocide. There is also a document from the Soviet archives.

Is that the best you've got, a book review and a wiki article?

It is not a book review. Even if it were, I don't see what your point is.

It's an article from a Thai newspaper about pending genocide trials posted on a Yale University NGO website.

It is an article that reviews several books. Not all of which support your bias.

"Philip Short, author of a recent biography of Khmer Rouge leader Pol Pot, states that the persecution of the Cham Muslims resulted from the fact they resisted the new order more than other groups."

Neither is prompted by the ideal that it pretends is its goal, and the result in neither case resembles the real thing.

is that those things which cause a government to commit inhumane behavior are not religious in nature. Religion might be an outlet for such things, as may nationalism or other isms; but since there seems to be as much more more evil without religion as with it, they would seem to have little correlation.

you might be confusing correlation with causation.

Huge difference. Atheism is not a political stance, it's more of a null value. The only "words" a real atheist will follow is "I don't believe in a higher power". You either believe or you don't. An atheist will react the same as any theist to an attack on whether or not they have value because they believe or don't in any particular religion. A scientist working in physics or evolutionary biology can be a believer or non-believer, it has nothing to do with the reality and facts of his or her work. Atheism does not require someone to discard evidential data just because it's not in their belief system.

Anti-theism, now - anti-theism is an active political stance, just like fascism, or communism, or theocracy, etc, etc.etc. Yes, there are bad people who called themselves atheists when in reality they show they "Believe" by actively going out and fighting - giving power to, in essence - a particular belief system rather than just ignoring in general.
What it always came down to was political expediency, and there is no - and has never been, a politically strong organization that that uses atheism as a motivation for gaining power - as there's always a been a belief system behind most of the above fanatical political structures that attacked the former power base in their culture. Even if it was the belief in a social-economic system, or the consolidation of a cult/god/daddy figure that "threw off the chains of his religion", basically changing out the worship of whatever organized religion in the locality with the worship of him and his ideals. There's always a belief behind the motivation of a political power stance. When a man or woman sets himself up as the only true voice everyone has to follow, they are setting themselves up as a god's mouthpiece to their followers.

It's anti-theism. Not atheism. And I wish many people who call themselves atheists will face reality and just call themselves anti-theists, just like so many of these kooky fantasy fetishists who call themselves "wooo,I'm evil, I'm pagan, I'm satanic" just call themselves anti-christian satanics. They still believe in "one god", they're just rebelling against that god.

Anyway, the real myth about atheism is that it's a social-political movement. How can one individual's personal belief or non-belief be a social-political movement? Only when they get together to form a common belief system. And then atheism is no longer a factor, because now, there is belief.


Haele

It's a vital distinction that is often overlooked in discussions on this board. A lack of belief in gods is by no means the same as a conviction that organized religion is and has been detrimental and destructive to society. While the two are often expressed by the same people, they need not be, and they are most certainly different. It's entirely possible to believe in a personal god and still think that organized religion is corrupt, foolish and harmful, and it is also possible to be an atheist and still harbor no hostile or critical feelings towards religion.

 It is strident and vocal anti-theism that people are really reacting to when they fling the "fundamentalist atheist" label, though they rarely realize it, even when they are challenged to show how a lack of belief can be "fundamentalist".

Myth: atheists are bound together by a common belief.

In fact, atheists only share one common disbelief.

There is nothing there to bind us together except a common adversary.

And the fact that a person rejects one proposition doesn't tell you anything about his stand on other issues.

I'm glad he addressed these myths, but I wish he had taken one sentence to say that generalizations about atheists are never completely true. They are ALL myths.

I'm an agnostic. I'm not smart enough to be an atheist -- the world still leaves me guessing.

Only difference is, we don't guess ghosts.

"Something explicable" is my default mode but I've seen too many things that confuse me to let me think my intellect alone can decipher the secrets of the world. I prefer a multi-model end game. Because some atheists hate the idea of an afterlife, they -- by default -- exclude ghosts in the classic definition. That smacks of belief to me -- belief based on no information.

Some atheists don't just guess, they state unequivocally "nothing" and then condemn and criticize anyone who disagrees. I've had to lockout a lot of them from the agnostics board I mod (along with fundie Christians).

I think he really overgeneralized about what atheists believe and don't believe.

I do agree with it for the most part, however.

it is what non-atheists believe about atheists.

For example, he says: "atheists are often among the most intelligent and scientifically literate people in any society".
Yet according to the atheists in this forum, people are born atheist.
Since the global population is increasing, there are more newborns than there are adults.
Therefore, most atheists are little babies who haven't learned to read or talk yet.
Not being able to read, they cannot be scientifically literate, by definition.
Clearly, most atheists are little babies who are scientifically illiterate.
:popcorn:

At this point in U.S. history, religion is mainstream and atheism is counterculture. Intelligent people are far more likely to be counterculture. Therefore, atheists are represented by a higher percentage of intelligent people that those who are religious.

However, I'm not sure what exactly this tells us. Just based on sheer numbers, there are probably more intelligent Christians than there are intelligent atheists in this country, even if they represent a smaller percentage of the whole.

Actually, an increasing population indicates more births than deaths. It does not mean there are more new borns than adults.

Do you have a source for that, or did you just pull it out of your ass?

Gee, I can't imagine where that impression comes from.

that you are being intolerant in your claim of intolerance of atheists.