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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:21 PM Original message |
The right to oppose religion and belief |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
1. Opposition does not entail disrespect, true. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:28 PM Response to Reply #1 |
3. Whoa . . . no religion can demand our "respect" . . . |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:40 PM Response to Reply #3 |
6. People do. |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:53 PM Response to Reply #6 |
8. From a different forum |
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Occam Bandage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:59 PM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Reasonable of course. Most arguments along these lines do not derive |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:16 AM Response to Reply #8 |
39. Well said. nt |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:31 PM Response to Reply #6 |
20. That's different . . . that's human respect --- holding the door for one another ,etc. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:13 AM Response to Reply #6 |
37. Yes. It's a good default position... |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:27 PM Response to Original message |
2. Note that it is Separation of Church & State which gives this highest of privileges . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:15 AM Response to Reply #2 |
38. Religion has every right to a place in the public arena. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 05:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
52. No . .. religion has no right to plaster its crosses or its commandments ... |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Right. And that's what's commonly referred to as the public arena |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:14 PM Response to Reply #54 |
59. We seem to be on some kind of a merry-go-round here . . . |
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aspergris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Jul-30-08 02:24 AM Response to Reply #54 |
124. actually, |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:29 PM Response to Original message |
4. I think, perhaps, you want to suggest that there is no need to be personally vile |
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theoldman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:33 PM Response to Original message |
5. Unfortunately the believers do not think that the unbelievers |
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Union Thug (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 12:48 PM Response to Reply #5 |
7. Atheists, according to 'the polls' are ranked as the least |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
22. I think that has a lot to do with the framing of totalitarian communism as "atheist" . . . |
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mrreowwr_kittty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:32 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Yes, we non-believers are expected to tread carefully around the feelings of believers |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:35 PM Response to Reply #10 |
11. Well that is sort of a built in problem |
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mrreowwr_kittty (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:36 PM Response to Reply #11 |
12. And for many of them, it is imperative that they try to convert as many of us as they can |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:48 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. It is a very effective meme for a religion to include |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:38 PM Response to Reply #12 |
23. Actually that "conversion" business was evidently re upped by the RCC . . .??? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:18 AM Response to Reply #11 |
41. Not that, either. |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-31-08 05:34 PM Response to Reply #10 |
126. I think anyone declaring you are immoral or going to hell is just foolish |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:51 PM Response to Reply #5 |
15. Some do, some don't |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:43 PM Response to Reply #15 |
26. I think we're working off what we know of the very determined religous-right . . . |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 06:36 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. As I've said many times, the fundies think we're heretics |
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charlie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 06:49 PM Response to Reply #29 |
30. The Presbyterians |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 06:52 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. LOL, which calls up images of someone saying, |
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charlie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 07:07 PM Response to Reply #31 |
32. I'm looking forward to the yahoos losing |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:21 AM Response to Reply #30 |
43. Yeah, sorry about that |
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charlie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 02:09 PM Response to Reply #43 |
49. Oy... |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 02:42 PM Response to Reply #49 |
51. Yes, Yes, Yes, Yes! |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:17 PM Response to Reply #30 |
60. Looking forward to this progress . . . !!! |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 11:21 PM Response to Reply #29 |
34. Obviously they consider only themselves to be right --- |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:04 AM Response to Reply #34 |
35. They're a recent development |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:30 PM Response to Reply #35 |
61. Thanks for all the info . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:22 AM Response to Reply #34 |
44. Look it up - it's scary stuff. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:33 PM Response to Reply #44 |
62. They are trying to reverse civil/human rights . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:19 AM Response to Reply #26 |
42. See, you don't know that, either. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:38 PM Response to Reply #42 |
63. In some respects you're correct . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:11 AM Response to Reply #63 |
71. Their purpose isn't to oppose the religious right. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 12:34 PM Response to Reply #71 |
78. Obviously that hasn't worked in more than two decades . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:25 PM Response to Reply #78 |
81. Because it's not all patriarchal |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:50 PM Response to Reply #81 |
84. If your religion is based in any way on the Old Testament or the New Testament . .. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:34 PM Response to Reply #5 |
21. "Faith" is the end all --- |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:25 AM Response to Reply #21 |
45. Of course faith is not the same as proof |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 09:50 PM Response to Reply #45 |
58. Right . . . religious beliefs are personal beliefs --- |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:13 AM Response to Reply #58 |
72. Just FTR - many of us do not think that God is male... |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:42 PM Response to Reply #5 |
25. From what we've seen of the religious-right, I completely agree with you --- |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:17 AM Response to Reply #5 |
40. That's a pretty bold statement. And one that doesn't hold up |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 01:51 PM Response to Original message |
14. You're very right, Az |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 02:12 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. What could a religious or non religious person say that is more rude than "YOUR GOING TO HELL". |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 02:50 PM Response to Reply #16 |
17. And who on DU ever said that to you? |
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Az (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 03:05 PM Response to Reply #17 |
18. Hey! Your a Universalist!!! |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:42 PM Response to Reply #18 |
24. I wouldn't go that far |
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Critters2 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 03:09 PM Response to Reply #24 |
123. I'm a universalist. Most UCCs are. |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 04:34 PM Response to Reply #17 |
19. It has happened when or where or who don't know. My point was Atheist's are not the only ones |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:58 PM Response to Reply #19 |
28. I think everyone has a story to tell since the "religious-right" got started . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:30 AM Response to Reply #19 |
48. Sure. And I've run into rude non-believers, too |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:28 AM Response to Reply #17 |
47. Yup. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:42 PM Response to Reply #47 |
64. .... but that is the male concept of spirituality . . . a distorted, fearful spirituality . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:04 AM Response to Reply #64 |
69. What is the male concept of spirituality? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 11:58 AM Response to Reply #69 |
77. See message above which says this . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:26 PM Response to Reply #77 |
82. Suffice to say I think you have a fairly distorted idea of |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:53 PM Response to Reply #82 |
85. What do you mean by "modern" . . . ? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:00 PM Response to Reply #85 |
88. The RCC most certainly is not representative of all of |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:02 PM Response to Reply #88 |
89. The RCC is the main body from which Protestants broke off . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:26 PM Response to Reply #89 |
90. No, but there are almost limitless ways to interpret that book |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:36 PM Response to Reply #90 |
93. The Book as written came BEFORE the reformation . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:40 PM Response to Reply #93 |
94. Sure it does. As its authors are human, and quite fallible |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 03:56 PM Response to Reply #94 |
98. These aren't "human" contradictions . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 04:06 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree on that |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 04:38 PM Response to Reply #100 |
101. You've outted yourself as a FUNDI . . . !!!! |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 05:48 PM Response to Reply #101 |
102. What? Seriously? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 06:58 PM Response to Reply #102 |
105. I've said several times that the bible is NOT |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:32 PM Response to Reply #105 |
109. Too late, Jerseygirl --- game's over --- |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:40 PM Response to Reply #109 |
110. What the heck are you talking about? nt |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 10:20 PM Response to Reply #110 |
112. Give it up, Jerseygirl! |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 01:25 PM Response to Reply #112 |
116. Ahhhhh!!! You've caught me with your Super Atheist X-Ray Machine (T) !!! nt |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 01:38 PM Response to Reply #116 |
118. To the lions with you! |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 01:57 PM Response to Reply #118 |
119. You guys still doing that? |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 02:01 PM Response to Reply #119 |
121. Every Saturday night at my place. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 02:29 PM Response to Reply #121 |
122. Oh you're good. Very good. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:30 PM Response to Reply #102 |
108. Seems to have disappeared, doesn't it . . . ??? |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 10:19 PM Response to Reply #108 |
111. Perhaps you should lay down for a little bit. Drink lots of fluids, you know? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:27 AM Response to Reply #16 |
46. Is that something you've heard from anyone here? |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 05:50 PM Response to Reply #14 |
27. There is no "bigotry" involved in opposing religous notions . . . |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #27 |
56. Unfortunately, your last paragraph is the closest to true. |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 10:48 PM Response to Reply #56 |
65. Are you saying that . . . |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:03 AM Response to Reply #65 |
67. As I mentioned above, these battles are going on within denominations |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 11:51 AM Response to Reply #67 |
75. I think Jim Wallis is the only one running a noticeable united effort . . . |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:07 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. Actually, it's the fundegelicals who emphasize "man's dominion over nature" |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:57 PM Response to Reply #79 |
86. No -- that's totally untrue . . . |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 10:25 PM Response to Reply #86 |
114. Capitalism actually developed in northern Europe, but |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:03 AM Response to Reply #65 |
68. Opposing religious notions isn't bigotry |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 11:56 AM Response to Reply #68 |
76. Again . . . try to understand no one wastes their time criticizing individuals . . .members . .. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:14 PM Response to Reply #76 |
80. Which "church"? Which hierarchy? Which organization that is |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:33 PM Response to Reply #80 |
83. Are you trying to suggest that Catholics make decisions for the church . . . ???? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 01:57 PM Response to Reply #83 |
87. No, I'm contrasting different churches and their organizational |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:33 PM Response to Reply #87 |
92. Have any of the Christian churches denounced Bibical writings or condemned them? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:47 PM Response to Reply #92 |
96. No, all other Christian religions are not breakaways from the RCC |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 04:05 PM Response to Reply #96 |
99. Granted you may have found some decendants of "pagans" --- |
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charlie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 05:55 PM Response to Reply #99 |
104. Are you *trying* to sound like a Witchfinder General? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 07:00 PM Response to Reply #104 |
106. Thanks, Charlie |
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kwassa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Jul-26-08 10:04 PM Response to Original message |
33. The right is called free speech. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 08:12 AM Response to Original message |
36. No, it's not. At all |
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defendandprotect (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 05:11 PM Response to Reply #36 |
53. What you are trying to say is that your RELIGION is of a higher order than |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #53 |
55. Now how you would you get that idea? |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 11:21 PM Response to Reply #53 |
66. Bullshit. |
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Lydia Leftcoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:05 AM Response to Reply #66 |
70. Thank you, bmus! |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:33 PM Response to Reply #70 |
91. You're welcome, Lydia. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:14 AM Response to Reply #66 |
73. Thank you |
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beam me up scottie (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:44 PM Response to Reply #73 |
95. IIRC, you have done the same for us in the past. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 02:49 PM Response to Reply #95 |
97. Sigh |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 05:51 PM Response to Reply #53 |
103. Were was she trying to say that? |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #103 |
107. Yes, exactly Varkam. |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 10:21 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. This is actually quite amusing. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 07:12 AM Response to Reply #113 |
115. Me either! |
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varkam (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 01:37 PM Response to Reply #115 |
117. Don't mention it. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Jul-29-08 01:58 PM Response to Reply #117 |
120. LOL!!!! |
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Goblinmonger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 02:34 PM Response to Original message |
50. No replies on this cartoon as an OP |
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TechBear_Seattle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Jul-28-08 08:27 AM Response to Reply #50 |
74. Reminds me of David Horsey's "A Brief History of Religion" |
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knitter4democracy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Jul-27-08 09:27 PM Response to Original message |
57. Declaring it's wrong is fine and expected. |
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Marrah_G (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Jul-31-08 05:32 PM Response to Original message |
125. I think you have that right |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Aug-02-08 07:27 PM Response to Original message |
127. All ideologies are open to criticism...nt |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Wed May 08th 2024, 01:07 AM Response to Original message |
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