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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 02:55 PM
Original message
Tigers are not evil.
In my opinion nothing is evil.

The Buddhists understand how to create mutual tolerance of other animals even other humans, do you? War, hate, ridicule, condemnation, torture and claiming to believe in a superior god are counter productive in my opinion. Buddhists are still only human and therefore not always successful at doing this, but at least they do demonstrate the possibilities.

http://www.openworldthailand.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=article&Id=294788&Ntype=5
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. Counter productive?
That would depend on what outcome you are trying to produce.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. I was thinking the ultimate goal is peace and harmony.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. That goal is not shared by everyone.
And even among those that do share the goal, there are differing views on the path to that goal.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I have no doubt that you are correct, but IMO this should be given more attention.
The normal human mind appears to very consistently push in the wrong direction on this issue. The article that I presented flies in the face of most peoples views on behavior and I realize it will influence very few people, but if I believe it, I have to try.
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't, then...
A post that prima facie purports that Buddhism has a superior philosophical position and viewpoint at contradiction with Buddhist teachings? How does one argue a Buddhist "is" is better?
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. So, claiming to believe in a superior God is wrong, but . . .
claiming to believe in a better faith isn't? I'm a wee bit confused.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
4. Evil is an opinion
Nothing is inherently evil. It requires a person with an opinion to determine what is evil. And that opinion may not be shared by others. Evil is the result of a combination of biological, social, and psychological influences. And while we may have common basic assumptions about what is evil the more complex interpretations of evil vary considerably from community to community.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-11-08 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Thank you Az, for your understanding.
Take tigers for instance: if we shoot them, cage them, skin them, destroy their habitat and thus starve them and so forth chances are they will reciprocate in some fashion.

Take humans if we create a social structure in which some or many lose at every turn, even though it is their own fault, those humans will make every effort to bring down that social structure. So who is evil? The guy who built the unworkable system or the guy who is out to destroy it. I say neither, they are both merely blundering humans who don't know any better. If the haves escalate by using war, ridicule, hate, torture and so on the problem might appear to go away, but it will smolder and surely pop up again. IMO the Buddhists might have opened the door a crack to show us a better way.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
18. Nothing is inherently evil?
Not even...



????
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Ok... I will admit that marketing and advertising are inherently evil
But thats it.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 07:28 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I guess I can't blame you...
...for making a comment that seeks to avoid thinking about the contents of the pictured aluminum can. Some evil is too great to contemplate. :scared:
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. "Nothing is evil". The Holocaust. End of discussion.

Evil is a word, with a definition in the dictionary. Some acts, and some people, fit that definition (tigers don't, though).

War usually produces more bad effects than good ones, but not always.
Hate isn't always a bad thing; it depends what you hate and why.
Still more so for ridicule.
Condemnation is often a good thing; you yourself are (rather vaguely) engaging in it.
Torture is nearly always a bad thing.
Believing in a superior god (or "claiming" to do so...) is a bad thing if you're wrong in that belief, but a good one if you're right; I don't think that one does.

You don't have a philosophy, you just have slogans, and stupid slogans at that.

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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. The people responsible for the holocaust didn't believe it was evil.
And they had dictionaries too.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Ah, good old moral relativism...
Edited on Fri Sep-12-08 12:58 PM by Donald Ian Rankin
I'm sure that there's nothing I can say that you haven't heard before, so I won't bother, but I'm willing to bet that if I bashed you and took your lunch money, you would feel that what I had done was "wrong" in an objective sense.

I would also be interested to know how you would feel standing up talking to survivors or relatives of victims of the holocaust or some other atrocity, and explaining that what had been done to them wasn't evil.

Moral relativism is an idea that sounds great in an abstract debate, but doesn't survive contact with the real world.
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cosmik debris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Since you have throughly mis-characterized my position
There is no point in explaining the straw man fallacy.

And since you have already used the dictionary argument, there is no point in explaining the irrelevance of semantic argument.

Oh well.


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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Humans are very self centered.
I've read, and believed it, that the Russians were not disturbed by Hitlers elimination of the Jews, but when the Russians noted that in Hitler's view the Russians were also inferior/bad/evil they got very serious about fighting back. So in a sense Hitler's treatment of the Jews was Hitlers undoing.

There is a poem that explains this, it sort of goes: When they came for my enemies I did nothing. When the came for my friends I did nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to help me.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Or is everything evil?
Maybe we just don't realize that every thing we do is evil. Maybe their is some sort of vast galactic civilization that isn't getting in contact with us because we allow tigers to exist on our planet. Or maybe cutting your nails is the height of evil and they don't want anything to do with someone who does it.

Fucking galactic civilization. I say we bomb them.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. There is at least one "Lipstick wearing pig " who agrees with you.
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Don't be a sexist. Sexism is evil....
oh man. I forgot that nothing is evil. Or is everything evil? Or is it evil to be sexist. Or is it evil to say something is sexist when it's not and pretend it is.

Ethical questions confuse me.

I say we bomb ethical questions.
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heidler1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. I expect everyone to be wrong now and then, even me..
"Lipstick on a pig" won't make it. Of course I guy could try three blue pills with a ten once class of pure Jack Danial's for a chaser.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-12-08 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
15. Just out of curiosity, did I miss a debate re: the innate morality of tigers?
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Your joking right? It was on the greatest page for two months.
You had 37 posts in that topic; three of those posts had pie charts explaining your position. You even posted a picture of yourself punching a tiger cub in the ass.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Damn, how could I have forgotten? Fuck tigers.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-13-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. LOL! That is so awesome! Bastards, all of them.
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Silent3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
25. Skateboarding is not a crime
Tigers on skateboards, however, can be very dangerous, and are a public nuisance which will NOT be tolerated!
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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-15-08 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Even if they are wearing skating pads and doing it in a designated skate park?
What a anti-tiger bigot!

Nice post, Sigfried. Next thing you know, you'll only want tigers to stay behind bars, work as slaves for no wages, or be exiled to the jungle.
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 04:11 AM
Response to Original message
27. I love all BIG CATS...
and all Cats and animals in general.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-19-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
28. They aren't evil but knowing they are in the jungles of SE Asia, and not here
Makes me feel good
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