An Evolution for Evangelicals WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/05/08/AR2009050802383.html

By Kathleen Parker
Sunday, May 10, 2009

(...)Collins, an evangelical Christian who was home-schooled until sixth grade, wants to raise the level of discourse about science and faith, and to help fundamentalists -- both in science and religion -- see that the two can coexist. To that end, he created the BioLogos Foundation and last month launched a Web site -- BioLogos.org -- to advance an alternative to the extreme views that tend to dominate the debate. (...)

Though his own beliefs are firm, Collins understands doubt, skepticism and even atheism. He was once an atheist himself, believing only in what science could prove. As a medical student, however, he stumbled on questions for which science had no answers. In treating dying patients, he also began to wonder how he would approach his own death. Not with as much peace as his patients of faith did, he supposed.

Having earned a PhD and a medical degree, Collins is nonetheless a scientist with little patience for those who insist that evolution is just a theory that one may take or leave. Most human genes, he points out, are similar to genes in other mammals, "which indicates a common ancestry."

Even so, a Gallup Poll found last year that 44 percent of Americans believe God created human beings in their present form within the past 10,000 years.

"You can't arrive at that conclusion without throwing out all the evidence of the sciences," says Collins. (...)

To Collins, Darwin is a threat only if one thinks that God is an underachiever. Collins doesn't happen to believe that. His study of genes has led him to conclude that God is both outside of nature and outside of time. He's big, in other words. The idea that God would create the mechanism of evolution makes sense.

Now, if only he can convince his fellow Christians.

Through the foundation and Web site, Collins is hoping to help home-schoolers and other Christian educators come to grips with their scientific doubts. Among other projects, he intends to develop curricula that combine faith and science. He also hopes to help fundamentalist scientists see the error of their ways.

Whatever one's stripes or lack thereof, helping fundamentalists evolve can only be good for civilization -- a cause in which even the faithless can believe.

Collins is setting out to convince these people that evolution is consistent with their preexisting believes. But as a scientist he should know that it is the preexisting beliefs that must be disregarded, not the evidence-supported scientific theory.

It's been a tutorial watching the *scientists* reaction to discussion of the issue.
We disagree.

I'm sure anyone who isn't an evangelical Christian would tell them the same thing. Reality is what it is, and your beliefs must change to keep pace, not the other way around. My point is that as a biologist he should be trying to convince them that evolution is true, not that it is consistent with their beliefs. It is their peculiar religious beliefs that are being given privilege here, not the science.

he IS trying to convince them it is true. He happens to believe that BOTH are true. He's allowed to do that, you know. If you refuse to allow someone their faith, then why am I speaking to you. I believe in civil liberties for all. I've also already heard your persecution stories, so I'll pass on further discussion. eom

oh and welcome to DU :hi:

- "God is both outside of nature and outside of time" = Gobbledygook

but in the way Collins envisions them they are the foundation for his own version of "God of the Gaps" (crafted primarily to sell books rather than to actually explain or understand anything new). But, duh! Of course any professional scientist with half a clue knows that there are questions that do not fall under the purview of science. But do they prance around claiming that they have found answers for them, by using science? No. The truly deep and rich irony is that religion, faith, theology, mysticism or whatever, having reserved such questions for themselves (by, for example, the rather vapid and vacuous declaration that science answers the "how" question and religion answers the "why" questions), have made essentially no progress towards actually answering them. Oh, they debate and discuss them with great pomp and seriousness and much talk of "mysteries" all the live-long day, but they still discover and understand nothing when all is said and done.

Sadly, all of this seems to have escaped even Kathleen Parker's formidable intellect, but maybe she was just up against a deadline.

Or, in more accurate words, he's gibberish.

I bet you anything you want that if asked he is totally incapable of defining what the hell "outside of time" actually means in a rational comprehensible manner.

He's... what? In stasis? Action, of any form, requires the passage of time by definition. God takes no action? Ever? Alters nothing. Experiences nothing? Never thinks a thought?

What I find people who say this usually actually mean, but want to avoid saying, is "when it comes to God, throw logic and rationality out the window, he gets a free pass because he's that awesome."