An entire Ohio school district has "belief in god" as part of it's MISSION STATEMENT.

As a public school teacher (as opposed to private religious schools, where it is fine), I can confidently say it is UNBELIEVABLE how wrong this is...

:puke:

http://friendlyatheist.com/2009/08/29/ohiopublic-school-district-values-belief-in-god-ffrf-responds/

http://www.wkowtv.com/global/story.asp?s=11007404

http://www.newrichmond-news.com/event/article/id/26648/

http://www.ohiomm.com/blogs/blog_mass_destruction/2009/08/28/lake-public-schools-we-value-belief-in-god/ID=7599/

read Freedom FROM Religion.
I was raised around evilgelicals and I am damned sick of the rightwing theofascist do as I say, not as I do attitude.

you have freedom of speech also means no coerced speech, and that freedom of religion also means you can have no religion...

They are both double-sided rights...

The first is freedom of religion, which says you can choose to be of any religion you like, and the second is freedom from religion, also called the anti-establishment clause, which prohibits the Federal Government from establishing a state religion. The first amendment has been "incorporated" against the states, meaning that it applies to the state of Ohio, and what this school district has done is almost certainly unconstitutional.

:dem:

-Laelth

Edit:Laelth--bad bb code.

We have one here in the green space by the Civic Center and our public library. Across the street from the police station. Facing west. Its back is toward Mecca. There has been some dispute over this and the local wingnutz and city will not remove it, nor allow any other displays depicting other religions in the area.

After all this country was founded on Christianity. Our Founding Fathers were deeply religious, true Christians, one and all... they say. Never mind the evidence to the contrary in the Founding Father's own hand writings.

A person can't be free to practice whatever their religion unless they are free from the religions of others. Consequently freedom from religion is a significant part of freedom of religion.

...unless they are promoting all other religions as well alongside their statement of one particular religion.

"belief in god" is not a goal that a PUBLIC school system should have anything to do with, not only because the SC said so, but because that is not something PUBLIC schools should be doing. How is it going to be measured (graded, tested), and are all the atheists/wiccans/buddhists etc. going to fail?

What a croc...

Goals, no matter how lofty, are more often unaddressed than addressed when it comes to proving actual compliance. So, I doubt it would ever be graded or tested. Yet, if it was, and it could be, that would be indicative of the underlying mission statement being wrong making subsequent acts to be just as wrong.

Unfortunately my cable modem transformer died and I'm at a neighborhood diner for access without a charger -- my own choice on the charger. I wish you well. Take care.

everyone and their cat thinks they know at least as much, if not way more, than the professionals actually working in that field. You do not regularly have people trying to tell structural engineers, or oceanographers, or statisticians how to do their job, but it happens in the teaching profession (and a few other fields) all the time.

I am telling you, as someone who actually has a clue as to what he is talking about, that a MISSION STATEMENT in the public schools describes goals to be achieved. Anyone who argues with that part is a complete ignoramus, so I am going to assume you are not arguing with that part.

Next, is the part about how to measure goals. Again, as a professional in the field, I can tell you it is about grades and testing.

Now, oh wizard oh wise one, how do you propose to grade/test "belief in god"?

The SC said it is UNCONSTITUTIONAL (do I have to find the ruling for you?), and it would be biased/bigoted against atheists/wiccans/buddhists, etc., and, depending on WHOSE god, against christians and muslims and jews (I think it should be on thor, or maybe shiva, or isis, or quetzalcoatl).

Not to mention the teachers who would have to TEACH (yes, that is what we have to do with GOALS, virginia) and grade this nonsense...

So do tell me, oh please do, why it would be appropriate.

I await your superior wisdom with bated breath...


:eyes:

Festivito, you might want to consider voicing your opinions regarding the 70-549 thread which is in progress and deals with certain private schools, their character in the eyes of the government, and the tax perks such as their basketball ministers claim.

Sincerely,
Robert Baty

You can't really mean that you want all other religions promoted. Do you want Aztecs tearing out living hearts? Satanists worshiping evil? Fourth-century Gnostics teaching that the world is an illusion and that the God of the Bible is the evil illusionist? The Heavens' Gate lunatics, who thought you needed to kill yourself to follow the UFOs behind Comet Hale-Bopp? Nudists marching unclothed through the classroom for the God of Nudity?

Okay, I made that last one up. But the others are real.

So you'll need to decide what religions may be promoted. (Because if you don't, someone like me will go and teach your kids to worship Satan or Quetzalcoatl or the Nude God in order to prove that your ideas about promoting religion are misguided.) And then, once you and the school board have decided what religions are all right to promote, you have broken the establishment clause of the First Amendment. So any kind of promotion of religion in public school is unconstitutional, no matter whether you allow "everyone" or not, because eventually you are going to find some religion that you find personally repugnant, and the whole exercise goes out the window.

You can't really mean that you want all other religions promoted.
CORRECT: ALLOWED, NOT PROMOTED, ALL OR NONE.

Do you want Aztecs tearing out living hearts?
THAT WOULD VIOLATE CONSTITUTION ITSELF: RIGHT TO LIFE... PRECEDING FIRST AMENDMENT THUS SUPERSEDING, THEY COULD TEACH ABOUT IT THOUGH.

Satanists worshiping evil?
SOME ALREADY DO. FIRST AMENDMENT DOESN'T STOP THEM.

Fourth-century Gnostics teaching that the world is an illusion and that the God of the Bible is the evil illusionist?
YES, RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF PARENTS IF NECESSARY.

The Heavens' Gate lunatics, who thought you needed to kill yourself to follow the UFOs behind Comet Hale-Bopp?
ALSO IN FRONT OF THE PARENTS.

Nudists marching unclothed through the classroom for the God of Nudity?
KIDS DON'T GET FULL RIGHTS OF CITIZENSHIP. PARENTS CAN WITHDRAW THE CHILDREN IF THEY DESIRE TO DO SO -- ON ANY OF THESE RELIGIONS.

So you'll need to decide what religions may be promoted. (Because if you don't, someone like me will go and teach your kids to worship Satan or Quetzalcoatl or the Nude God in order to prove that your ideas about promoting religion are misguided.)
NO, THE DISTRICT AND PARENTS WOULD HAVE TO DECIDE WHETHER TO ALLOW ALL OR NONE. THE REST CAN BE UP TO THE PARENTS AS THE PARENTS DEEM DESIRABLE FOR THEIR OWN FAMILY.

And then, once you and the school board have decided what religions are all right to promote, you have broken the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
WRONG. IF NONE IS CHOSEN, NO ONE RELIGION IS CHOSEN OVER ANOTHER, THE FIRST IS NOT BROKEN. IF ONE IS DENIED, ALL MUST BE DENIED, NO BROKEN FIRST. IF ONE OR TWO OR ... ARE ALLOWED AND NO ONE IS DENIED, THEN NONE HAS BEEN CHOSEN AND NO FIRST AMENDMENT HAS BEEN BROKEN.

In the town where I grew up, since before I was born, and continuing to this day, the following egregious offenses against the first amendment take place:

1. All city council meetings open with a prayer specifically "in the name of Jesus."
2. All graduation ceremonies (kindergarten, 8th grade, high school) open with a similar prayer.
3. Baccalaureate (which is a church service in disguise) is held 2 days before graduation, and is MANDATORY for all seniors.
4. All musical performances of the choir and band include VERY religious pieces which are NOT considered classics.

And this is just what I can think of off the top of my head. None of these things have changed for decades, and they never will, unless someone like the ACLU finds out about it anonymously. No one wants to be "that family" that brought religious persecution home to the school district.

:puke: indeed.

On the other hand, one quip strikes me as extreme.

'“They’re saying they don’t value you unless you believe in a god,” Gaylor said. The statement vilifies nonbelievers, she contends.'

They're simply not valid inferences. Of course, Gaylor believes them to be valid, not that her belief necessarily counts for anything.