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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 04:50 PM
Original message
Poll question: Which is more offensive:
As far as I'm concerned, option 2 is more offensive. That faith is irrational is a matter of fact--faith, by definition, is belief in the absence of, or contrary to, evidence. Telling someone they'll burn in hell for their beliefs is an intimidation tactic and a way of attempting to coerce a conversion through an appeal to emotion.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Let's rephrase the question
Take the objects out of it

Which is more offensive - for me to tell you "My dad is going to kick your ass over and over and over again!" or me to tell you "Your constant talking to your deceased dad doesn't make any sense"

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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. I would think that either side on the receiving end would laugh at
the statement. Only those who are insecure with themselves should be offended.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I think the second is an offensive type of statement.
I find using coercion as a way to achieve agreement to be offensive, regardless of the statement, especially when it involves an appeal to fear. The ads run against Max Cleland in 2002 and the wolf-pack ads against Kerry were offensive for this very reason.

Nothing indicates a lack of conviction quite like resorting to appeals to emotion. Someone doing so might as well just say, "I don't have anything useful to say, so I'm just going to intimidate you into submission."
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
3. Neither is offensive. One is quite ridiculous though. n/t
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. what is offensive is someone being "Offended" at all. but if you really want to see someone go bat
Edited on Mon Aug-31-09 05:00 PM by sam sarrha
shit crazy and open a can of Jihad on your ass n put a contract on you.. offend their Prophet.

your little example is a shadow of the real potential of piss'n the wrong person off.
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
5. It's all in how you say it. I laugh when people tell me I'll burn in Hell if I don't believe
what they do. Fine, that's their opinion. I'm not interested in arguing something that can't be proved.

It is a fact that some aspects of religion are irrational, but "faith" is not necessarily arguable, it's a feeling.

I just think it's up to the individual to decide that sort of thing and I dislike proselytizing by either side.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. its all in their head... just glad it isnt in mine
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
8. But if an atheist tells a Christian that they'll burn in hell for believing in God, ...
I might evaluate that somewhat differently. ;-)
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-31-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
9. I don't find either to be offensive because neither should apply to the other's sphere of concern.
Faith and reason are separate realms, the problem occurs when someone of faith loses their faith or at least has it shaken or the polar opposite when someone of reason loses their reason or has it shaken.

But in the final analysis, much in the way of offense can be avoided by simply not taking it on.
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ironbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:31 AM
Response to Original message
10. I am compelled to admire the blatant selectivity and imbalance
in the Poll questions.

A real parallel to- “telling an atheist that they'll burn in hell for their non-belief” would be something akin to telling a theist that their faith or all religion is-

Evil to the core, an abomination, worse than crystal meth, that all religion is completely fucked up-no good ever came of it and religion ought be eradicated.

Such expressions of complete contempt for particular faiths and religion in general have been made.

The ‘offence’ can occur on two levels-
The first, to those who personally hold religious beliefs.
The second, to those who hold that “There is no religion higher than Truth” and recognise the complete and utter condemnation of useless/fruitless/religion to hell…is a lie.

But rational critical thinking would preclude such fair and balanced Poll questions…wouldn’t it?
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edhopper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 07:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. Isn't faith
by it's very nature "irrational".
Don't the faithful tell atheist that everything can't be discerned by logic alone?
So how is the first statement offensive.
The second is just laughable. Try, you will be gored by a unicorn, or you will be stomped by bigfoot. Threats based on imaginary ideas aren't offensive, they are sad.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. I can't believe anyone would claim that those are equally offensive.
Even leaving aside the fact that one is true and the other is not. In one case, it is a judgment of someone else's beliefs. In the other case, it is a declaration that the other person will endure endless agony and torment for no good reason whatsoever.

Since when is lack of tact, at most, equivalent to ideological hatred and bigotry of a horribly malicious sort?
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SidneyCarton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
13. Are you going to hell laconic?
Edited on Tue Sep-01-09 10:35 AM by SidneyCarton
Being that you don't believe in Hell, such an argument ought to carry about as much weight as someone telling you you're going to end up in Atlantis, Ry'leh, Mu, or Shangri-la.

Nevertheless, I would agree it is offensive to tell someone they are going to hell. It's also something that, as Christians, they have no right to tell anyone. If it is to be accepted that the only judge is Christ, then Christ is the only one who can tell any particular individual whether or not they are bound for hell. For anyone else to do so, is to usurp the prerogatives of God, and is effectively blasphemy. (feel free to tell this to the next moron who tells you so.)

As to having my faith called irrational, that's par for the course, the very definition of faith is irrationality, and humans are not by nature rational creatures, so be it.
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laconicsax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-01-09 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thanks, I'll try that.
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