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Boojatta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 10:27 PM
Original message
Would it be possible to persuade Christian farmers to stop growing food...
Edited on Wed Mar-31-10 10:40 PM by Boojatta
and to use their land instead to seek the kingdom of God? Of course, it's not clear what it means to use land to seek the kingdom of God, but we can set that issue aside for a moment.

When you plant crops, you think ahead to the day of harvest. On any given day, Christians are supposed to extend their economic thinking only to events that will occur on the same day. If there is a heavenly father, then presumably the heavenly father knows that human beings require food. Otherwise, the heavenly father is very ignorant.

You could say that the verses contain some exaggerations designed to make a point, but it doesn't look that way. It looks as though there's alleged to be some way for people to serve God that will obligate God to become an economic servant of human beings. Furthermore, Christianity commands Christians to refrain from work that is calculated to have future benefits beyond the day of the work, and to instead do whatever it is that is considered service to God. (Perhaps feeding the hungry? Well, there might not be much food to feed them, but there will be plenty of hungry people if all Christian farmers stop growing food.)


Matthew 6, King James Version (public domain)

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?

26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?

27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?

28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?

32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Huh?
Christianity commands Christians to refrain from work that is calculated to have future benefits beyond the day of the work, and to instead do whatever activities are considered to serve God.

How did you figure that out? Do you suppose the verses you quote are telling Christians to ignore tomorrow, to such an extent that we are to not plan out our lives.

Taking your exegesis to it's conclusion, shall Christians not clean their clothing, hold a job, plan a trip to the grocery store for food, go to school, etc, etc.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. That is indeed what it says.
Lotta malarkey in the NT.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-31-10 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not really
Verve 24 and 25 states

24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say unto you,.......................

The verses that follow are drawing a distinction between serving God or serving Mammon (or money). You can't do both. The message is you don't need to serve mammon to have the things you need. If you have an attitude of serving God the necessities of life will take care of themselves.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Check out lines 30 -> 34. nt
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I did
If you use a modern translation it will oftentimes be helpful in understanding the context. For example in the KJV "take no thought" is better translated as "do not be anxious", in out understanding of the language today.


Mat 6:30 Therefore if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much rather clothe you, little-faiths?
Mat 6:31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, With what shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 For the nations seek after all these things. For your heavenly Father knows that you have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness; and all these things shall be added to you.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow; for tomorrow shall be anxious for its own things. Sufficient to the day is the evil of it.

MKJV
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Why do you think KJV is a better translation? nt
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Did I say it was? nt
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You said...
For example in the KJV "take no thought" is better translated as "do not be anxious", in out understanding of the language today.

Perhaps you just meant that one phrase. I will reword my question; why do you think the KJV translation of that phrase is better?

What makes it better?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I meant the MKJV has the better translation
The reason is simple. How people interpret words and phases change over time.

When the KJV was translated from Greek "take no thought" was understood to mean something along the lines of don't worry about these things. It is doubtful that then or even today anyone seriously believes it was meant to be understood as, "don't think about anything other than the immediate moment to the extent that you plan absolutely nothing into the future, sit around on your butt and wait for God to supernaturally provide for all your needs without you doing anything". What you seem to imply it means. The only way to interpret that in MHO is to take a childish view of the context of the times and words of the bible.

The translation in the MKJV as "do not be anxious" is just putting the context in words that are more understandable in todays vernacular. Hence the name Modern King James Version MKJV.

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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Uh huh. It'll all be "provided."
Which is what the OP says it said. And it damn well does.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Where does it say that? nt
Edited on Thu Apr-01-10 04:29 AM by LARED
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't think Christians, whether they be liberal or conservative, generally care what Jesus said.
People just like to think their own philosophy and politics are the will of God. They deify their opinions.
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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. o rly?
"They deify their opinions." I agree with this. I doubt anyone enjoys thinking they are wrong or incorrect, that they hold a flawed view. I think you are correct in saying that many people (Christians included) search for evidence that their opinions are right. IMO most people would rather try to validate their beliefs than constantly examine "am I right?" It soothes our ego.

"I don't think Christians, whether they be liberal or conservative, generally care what Jesus said." Thats just plain wrong. Many Christians meditate on Jesus' words, go to church to hear interpretations and explanations, sing hymns, read books, go to Bible studies, conferences, revivals, etc, all of which point us back to Christ's words. We are called to reflect on what he said and to incorporate our understanding of his words into our life. Do many ignore the uncomfortable or difficult sayings he spoke? Yes. I am guilty of this, as are many. Turn the other cheek, give more than what is asked of you, love your neighbor as you love yourself, love God with all your heart, soul and mind. These are very difficult and all Christians fall short of these commandments. But do Christians 'not care what Jesus said' ? Of course not.
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ZombieHorde Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Try posting Jesus' anti-family quotes; see what happens.
Crickets or spin.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 06:25 AM
Response to Original message
9. A compelling question. And not surprisingly, yet one more very
thoughtful post by this OP on this site.

I like the post for any number of reasons. One reason is that it demands scrutiny and analysis of a New Testament passage. Another is that the OP lends the passage greater attention and focus than most ministers ever offer on a given Sunday morning.

And not least, it asks into the nature of commitment to a call to service for the here and now versus the imperative of long-term vision. By its nature the moment is valued, the here and now of things, the essence of what is "sufficient unto the day." Yet the process of seed-to-harvest crosses many months' time and forces a longer view. The New Testament is crammed with references to planting.

We're handed the immediate day's emergencies and as grown-ups are expected to address them. But ideally we become grown-ups who plan ahead and anticipate emergencies that might occur weeks or months or even years from now. "Thy Kingdom come" was as important as this morning's admittedly beautiful lilies.

I love this post, Boojatta. Recommended.
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ChadwickHenryWard Donating Member (692 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-01-10 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
11. Eh, I wouldn't be too worried about that.
That's a really stupid doctrine, and there's no value in following it. Best to relegate it to the slag-heap of history.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-02-10 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
17. Kick.
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