I don't understand how God can "sacrifice" anything if he is all powerful

For instance he "had to sacrifice his only begotten son."

First of all didn't he make those rules that there needed to be such an event? Besides the whole concept of somebody's unjust torture and murder "saving" anybody else or being a good/positive thing in any way, I never understood how God could really sacrifice anything. He's God; if he wants another "begotten son" or 100 more or 1000 more he could have them. Besides he knew that the son would be by his side in 3 days and then forever. So really it was more like when your kid goes on a long weekend away from home and then never leaves again?

LOL I asked that question during the catechism Q&A when I was in grade school and learned not to ask it anymore because it made the priest in charge considered it a beligerent question. But truly that story never made any sense to me at all and I can't be the only one who has ever had that question!

Always one of my favorite catechism questions...

Sin is a spiritual thing that is in people and can be in animals.

So sacrifices were done so people could put sin into an animal, then when killed that sin would be brought into death, Sheol, or in Greek or many other cultures, underworld.

So it was the way to get rid of sin. Although another way would be for a Job to help turn something back to light by showing the love of God as a faithful servant, creating an intermediary. Although that is mostly my view, and not taught in religions that I have read up on.


So Christ dying on the Cross with the spirit of God, allowed God to go down into death and clean out hell. And since the spirit with Jesus is outside of temporal sequence, anyone can turn sins over to Jesus any time.

That is how I learned it.

But there are some issues, since he suffered and died for the sins, it seems turning them over is the reason he has to be crucified. So he was crucified because of the sin of the world to save the world.


Your question about God not just making things happen is because God gives free will, and if he just made something happen, would there be free will? And without free will a person doesn't exist, they are just an extension of what tells them what to do.

Although I think if things need to happen, he could make them happen.

:shrug:

It is one of the main reasons why I abhore organized religion. I disagree that sin is a spiritual thing. I disagree with the thought that you can "cleanse" a person of sin via sacrifice - human, animal or otherwise.

I especially find it disagreeble that the thought that a man who ministered peace had to die so we would be saved. I find that construct a sell out of the horrific things we, as a society did to him, given the simple truth that he was percieved as a threat to the powers that be.

Another just as plausible explanation could be that God sent down his only son to save us.....and we killed him, forever condemning us. We simply have not accepted that fact and to this day preach our salvation to quell our collective guilt for such a crime. Our salvation...whose salvation?

Taken even further....just whose guilt is it anyways? I personally did not kill him. Why should I carry that burden? I can visualize Jesus, as perhaps even being the son of God, certainly being a prophet, and most definately carrying a message that can, in many ways, shape the way I live in terms of doing good things, in terms of generosity, in terms of peace, in terms of trying to live up to Do unto others.

I can do all these things without the burden of guilt, because I do not prescribe to any church. It is the church that is compelled to fill me with guilt. They fill a person's head with sin and guilt and then a miraculous salvation to be free of it, all tied up in a neat bundle to explain why he had to die, so we could be saved, and in real terms, the church/faith/religion could be born. Nice trick. Trully impressive sleight of hand.

But I do all these things, such as trying to be generous, to believe in the value of peace, to help my neighbor, to lend a helping hand to those not as fortunate as myself, to do unto others - not because of the here-after but for the here right now. That has value and signifance to me, and from life lessons that have reinforced this belief.

I respect your point of view, from all that you have learned.

If Heaven is such a great and wonderful place in which no one would ever want to leave, the real punishment that Jesus suffered was not the torture and crucifixion, but rather being "born" - the crucifixion was actually a good and merciful thing because it allowed him to return to heaven.

Ergo, every Christian should long for the day that they die and get to go to their blissful eternal rewards in Heaven. This is how many suicide Christian cults start.

You're supposed to simply accept what you're told and donate as you are expected to donate. Stop fighting it and just listen to the priest or pastor. That's the Christian way.

By what?

A theologian would answer, "By his righteousness." An all-powerful being not constrained by any sense of righteousness or goodness would not only be able to do anything on a whim he would do anything.

The OT--and the NT--both have God being righteousness. He cannot break his word, for instance. Does that mean he'd be incapable of it if he wanted to? Possibly. Consider the situation undefined. If he's all-righteous he'd never want to.

It's like arguing within any theory or narrative: You don't get to import your own definitions and expect the result to make sense. If you read Tolkien or Donaldson, two large narratives that invoke some sort of magic, you don't get to drag in your own definition of magic.

It's made significantly harder because there are so many competing Christian narratives, many pretty much incompatible with each other. For example, a lot of Christians focus on God's power and not his love; or on his love and not his righteousness. The former are scary; the latter, no less scary. IMHO.

Even if you knew that your son would be alive again in 3 days, would you want to see him beaten, tortured, and killed? I have a son; I wouldn't want to see him beaten even if I knew his life wasn't in danger. (In other words, if you don't consider the idea that having your kid voluntarily accept being beaten and mangled to be something painful, I'm not quite sure what to say.)