Newville pastor admits his tale of being a Navy SEAL was just 'an ego-builder'

The Navy awards the gold Trident medal to those who have completed SEALs training and have earned the right to be called a SEAL.

The same gold Trident can be bought at a military surplus store, and that’s where the Rev. Jim Moats of Newville got his.

Moats was never a Navy SEAL — even though that’s what he told The Patriot-News on Friday, and that’s what Moats has allowed his congregation at Christian Bible Fellowship Church in Newville to believe for five years.

Moats came to the newspaper office and acknowledged in an interview Sunday that he never was offered SEALS training in the Navy and that he never was accepted into the program, let alone completed it.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/05/newville_pastor_admits_his_tal.html



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And people still argue that ethics and morals come from the bible? Just another day in the world of "christian values" I guess...

a man of the cloth. Don't you godless posters have anything better to do.

(Wanted to beat them to it)

He does move in mysterious ways ya know!

and we can read daily about incidents where that respect was not warranted.

What exactly is it that religious figures do that couldn't be done by a person without any "connection" to god?

for guidance and comfort. If it works for them and the need is filled, then the church leader has done his job.


No doubt there are those that take advantage - just like in every other societal institution.

The implication being that both perform actions with apparent reasons for warranting respect.

Our point of contention is that clergymen are not on the same level as firefighters, policemen, etc. They are in a separate category as the service they provide can be provided by almost anyone else.

The respect we have for firefighters and policemen hinges on them providing a service that clearly not many can provide. If everyone could rush into a building and save people, firefighters would not be as well respected. If the threat of fire was as vague as the existence of god, they would not be as well respected.

My question is what is it that religious leaders do that can't be done by an atheist, and thus by anyone (as far as "qualifications" go)?

respect automatically - to include police, firefighters, teachers, and, yes, clergy.

You can offer or withhold yours as you please.

I NEVER COMPARED THE PROFESSIONS. I only said they are given respect due to their chosen field.

rather to restate things just so that we're both on the same page. Lately I've dealt with a few that move goal posts like they were the after game clean up crew.

Your post #20 clarifies things for me.

do you disagree with that?

Soldiers, firefighters, police officers, and EMTs put their lives and often their sanity on the line to help others in a thankless and dangerous job. Teachers give up the kinds of salaries and benefits found in the corporate world for the lower paying jobs of academia while putting in literally countless hours of their own time to help children achieve a better future, and they get shit on constantly for it. These people don't get automatic respect. When they DO get it, they earn it.

Now tell me how clergy are the same. They give up little to nothing, depending on their sect, and get so much in return. Their housing is often paid for, their meals free at many establishments, their livelihood entirely paid for by donations from their congregants. They do not risk life, limb, or sanity, and they do not help provide for a brighter future for our children, yet they are given more respect and materials than any of the people who do.

Fuck that.

there aren't those that do.

That was my point - I am not trying to compare the relative contributions of the different professions. Just saying they get respect automatically.

just my opinion.

You were asked "why" clergy are given automatic respect, and that's when you busted out the reference to firefighters, soldiers, and teachers. You made an analogy, which is a comparison, and you were shown how poor that analogy was.

So how will you answer the original question, now? Why (that being the operative word) are clergy given automatic and extra respect? "Because they are" is circular logic.

all I have ever stated was that there were several professions, to include the clergy, that are offered automatic respect.

Show me where I said ANYTHING beyond that.

Funny how the board software disagrees.

given to firefighters, teachers etc.

Do you disagree with that?

How in any interpretation of what I wrote do you see that posts comparing those professions to the clergy?

Which makes what you posted clearly an analogy.

or how many times you explain it, they hear what they want to hear.

Has nothing at all to do with ambiguous wording. :sarcasm:

Funny thing: I'm still waiting for what is supposedly his answer to "why", and the more spin I get the more obvious it is that he's already given it.

What sets THEM above everyone else?

in our society?

firefighters, etc.

Maybe I misunderstood your point.

So I will ask again, why do the clergy get automatic extra respect just for being clergy?

respect due to the profession.

I did not compare anyone.

I'm in a field where respect is often given (scientists) but I have YET to have it assumed that a certain scientist could not possibly committed a crime merely because they are scientists. Priests are often assumed to be INCAPABLE of committing a crime. Why do you think the pedophilia problem in the Catholic church is so entrenched? Because people put priests on pedestals and refuse to believe that they are as human as the rest of us.

You are just pointing out that they DO get it automatically from some people but do not know why. Am I reading you right?

the man upstairs.

Because I see an awful lot of disrespect hurled at members of the clergy just for being members of the clergy.

(I'm not saying here.... it happens in the real world.)

This man is human and a liar. Shocker! It happens.

Don't think that. I have had people who work in a lab, defend a priest by saying to me "he's a priest he can't possibly have done anything bad!". And the Catholic Church says the pope is INFALLIBLE.
Don't even get me started here. People are brainwashed into believing that priests and clergy are superior beings. And they aren't.

walks on water.

There are just those who deny any faults with certain individuals. Their blinders are full-force.

Humans are humans and thus subject to errors.

I wouldn't even wear a shirt that says SEAL on it with any seriousness. Those men are something special and to cheapen what they do by lying and pretending, ugh. I feel this shouldn't even be about ethics or morals. Just fucking common sense.

... Shipley said he had dealt with 15 to 20 phony SEALs a day before May 1, and the number has probably doubled since ... Shipley noted that simple math make it likely that anyone who claims to be a SEAL is probably lying about it. There are fewer than 18,000 men who were ever SEALs, and many of them served during World War II. "We estimate there's probably fewer than 10,000 men alive today who have ever been a SEAL. The FBI did a study a few years ago estimating that each of us has 300 imposters. I put the number closer to 1,000 based on the fraud cases I've seen" ... http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/navy-seals-imposters-coming-woodwork-seal/story?id=13564587

simply because of their chosen profession, in this case, clergy.

Which begs the question: why do clergy automatically get respect for their profession?