Wrong, root and branch; wrong at every cell and molecule; wrong to the core

The world didn't end last Saturday (obviously), but Harold Camping and his predictions are just a smokescreen, and everyone is missing the heart of the problem.

Camping has now spoken. He now claims that Jesus did arrive 'spiritually' on the 21st, and that in his generous mercy, God has decided to spare us the 153 days of the tribulation, but that the world will still be ending on 21 October. This is no surprise. This is exactly what these crackpot prophets do: they're never right, but they are great at rationalizing.

--snip--

Sure, everyone is laughing at Harold Camping now, except his followers, who are undeterred. But you're missing the real joke. Look at every Abrahamic religion, with their myths of prophets and favored peoples and fate. Look at the crazy conservative church in your town, that preaches homophobia and anti-science and supports Israel because of the Armageddon prophecy. Look at the liberal Christian church down the street from you that has the nice Vacation Bible School and puts on happy plays for the older kids, and also teaches that one day you will stand before a great god and be judged. Look at your family members who blithely believe in death as a mini-apocalypse, in which they will be magically translated into another realm, again to be judged.

It's the very same rot, the poison of religion that twists minds away from reality and fastens them on hellish bogeymen. They're demented fuckwits, every one, and the big lie rests right on the fundamental beliefs of supernaturalism and deities, not on the ephemera of one crank's bizarre interpretations.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/_the_world_didnt_end.php

But then, it always is when someone speaks the naked truth.

On the battle front between science and religion, it looks like nothing has changed in the last 800 years for some. Even as science continues to confirm our reality based universe, many still cling to the day that the study of physics was the sole duty of the church using a single antiquated textbook.

On edit: I'm just a bit surprised that my vote offset someone who unrec'ed this post. I wonder if someone shouted "blasphemy!" at their monitor before clicking their disapproval.

Unreccing reality. I don't get it.


I'm sure they also alerted on this post, too, saying that it was "offensive" or something.

"They're demented fuckwits, every one..."

You are entitled to your opinion. You can call me whatever you want. With that said, do you really NOT think this statement is the least bit offensive? Really?

And if you have an issue with the choice of language, take it up with the author. He welcomes opinions and his blog is open for all to comment on.

please answer mine: do YOU not think it is offensive?

I think that language is harsh, yes, but it seems pretty accurate nonetheless.

many people would walk that back for fear of sounding impolite. I appreciate your frankness.

Can I mark you down as someone who wont complain about the "tone" of the R/T forum? :evilgrin:

Now nonsense, OTOH, is a different matter....

wherein every case is special
geek is acceptable if it is ironic, not if 'true'
demented fuckwit is acceptable if it is 'true' (not if ironic?)

I was wrong and I deleted it.

PZ Myers has to be offensive on his blog, in order to attract the following he does.
Otherwise he'd just be your average Associate Professor of Biology at a small podunk state college in Minnesota.

if he can set himelf up as a cult figure with faithful followers--beats the hell out of grading papers. He's Camping's mirror image, nothing more.

How do you know he doesn't grade papers?

The man is peddling reason while Camping peddles anything but, yet you consider them the same?

Your meaningless contribution to this thread has been noted. Thanks for playing.

If you're going to take issue with something I said, take issue with something I said, not something you imagined.

Myers isn't "peddling reason;" he's peddling raw emotion. It's the same thing Camping peddles. Both appeal to their followers' sense of superiority over common mortals by assuring them of their elite status and the inferior status of the respective lower life forms (sinner/believer.) Clearly, you're buying.

Just don't sell your house, okay?

5000 dollars for a geek summer camp!

I bet he won't even give any of it back when it's over. :sarcasm:

Clearly, he is just the same as a man who uses a broadcast empire that breaks up families with apocalyptic tales of horror and threats of hellfire while taking hundreds of millions of dollars from working-class people. (double :sarcasm:)

:3

I was pointing out that comparing him to Pastor Doomsday is out of line. As always, I should have added a sarcasm tag, but forgot. ;)

Also, being a hard-core space geek, I didn't think saying a science+skepticism oriented summer camp is "geek-ish" would be out of line, but I apologize if I am wrong.

Geek pride, yo! =D

I guess with the copious amounts of hypocrisy going on lately, I'm a bit sensitive right now. Again, my apologies. I will edit my post if I can.


Its a GREAT summer camp, I strongly support it. It advocates Freethought and the use of science, logic and reason, not the supernatural, to understand the world we live in.

www.campquest.org

:fistbump:

It's hard to parody some folks! http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law

Also, bump for the kids!

What Camping says and what his followers swallow whole has no basis in reality. They've basically turned off their brains, or at least the part of them that matters. And yes, people who think and understand before speaking and acting do have a right to feel superior to those who don't.

If you still can't even distinguish rationality from irrationality, you should have stayed away. You won't find this board very forgiving of that way of thinking.

Myers, for all I know, is a fine biologist and can speak authoritatively on that subject.

He is not speaking here about biology. He's delivering a bigoted rant on a subject beyond the area of his expertise that is neither rational nor factual. I can in fact tell the difference between the two. It's you who seem to be confused.

BTW, who elected you to speak for the board, or even this forum?

And have you read that report yet?

hurrrrrrrrr

For anyone who wants to read all 152 pages of "not our fault."

http://usccb.org/mr/causes-and-context/causes-and-context-of-sexual-abuse-minors-by-catholic-priests-in-the-united-states-1950-2010.pdf

Here is a summary and analysis (by analysis, I mean thorough reaming) by one of us evil types:

http://mirandaceleste.net/2011/05/24/a-worthless-and-dangerous-report/

It was the assertion of having read it before it came out that showed such--uhm--discernment.

Maybe you can start by justifying your use of the word "bigoted".

Then explain how pointing out the inherent conflicts of interest in the compilation and release of the report is "neither rational nor factual". Or pointing out the flawed use of statistical data (something Myers does know a thing or two about, btw), including the church's (notoriously reliable) self-reporting of abuse cases to determine where "peaks" were. Then you might use your intimate familiarity with the report to explain the dishonest dodge of trying to re-define "pedophilia". Or why it even matters to a decent human being how many of the victims of sexual abuse were younger than 10 in the first place. Or why an organization that claims to get its moral sense from an eternal god blames the perceived moral looseness of two decades of human history for the sexual abuse of children by priests (many of whom went through seminary long before that, and shouldn't have needed to be "trained" not to sexually abuse children in any case).

And I'm not "speaking for the board". Just telling you what to expect with your thinking. Anyone else is free to tell you different without checking with me.

And you can feel free to defend the report and the Catholic Church to your heart's content.

So you haven't read this thread, either, or Meyers' comment. Scott, this pontificating on things you haven't read is getting to be a habit. You might want to address that.

Myers is a bigot because he broadbrushes every Christian with the tar he slaps, with justification, on Camping. I realize that's something of a favorite hobby in this forum, but really,it's intellectually lazy. There is, by the way, nothing at all about the pedophile report in Myers' posting.


Neither have I addressed the report myself. I haven't read it. I will save my comments, if any, until I have done so. Allow me to suggest that you do likewise.

of pedophilia in the report? Since I did read his post, I'll ask what this was, then:

They also fudged the data in unconscionable ways: by changing the definition of pedophilia in an entirely arbitrary way, they changed the frequency of pedophilic abuse in the church from 73% down to 22%.

You either pontificated about Myers' post without reading it, or read it and didn't even comprehend it. Which was it?

And since you haven't read the report, I'm also curious to know how you reached the conclusion that Myers' post about it contained nothing factual.

We'll await your insightful comments with great anticipation.

Go back to the OP and click on the link. It will take you to Myers' post. Myers is ranting about Camping, eschatology and how evillllllll Christians all are. Not one word about the pedophile report.

that mentioned the pedophile report, here is the relevant link:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/05/you_mean_it_wasnt_the_hippies.php

As far as the other post, you're claiming this is all non-factual:



You may not like the tone, but what other tone does nonsense deserve?

You didn't read the thread or the pertinent Myers post before responding. You assumed, and assumed incorrectly.

but go ahead and try to justify your claim that the pertinent post contained nothing factual.

In fact, I agreed that Champing deserved the whaling he got from Myers. It's the rest of his screed where he takes flight into bigotry and fiction.

"He's delivering a bigoted rant on a subject beyond the area of his expertise that is neither rational nor factual."

So what exactly DID you mean in saying that his post was not factual? That some parts of it actually were factual and some not? Perhaps you'd care to list the specific passages that have no rationality and no fact whatsoever behind them. Then the ones that do. And opinions that simply happen not to conform with yours or that are expressed in a way that does not meet your personal approval don't automatically qualify as irrational, btw.

What you did say was "He's Camping's mirror image, nothing more."; "Myers isn't 'peddling reason;' he's peddling raw emotion. It's the same thing Camping peddles." ; "Myers is ranting about Camping"

Was the "whaling" Myers gave Camping just ranting with no reason behind it? If so, why did Camping deserve it?

The answers to your questions are all in my posts. I'm not going to repeat the whole thing for you because you don't bother to look at what's in front of you.

Good night.

You've laid out nothing like what I asked for. But silly me for expecting you to back up your claim with specifics. If you had really spelled it all out before, you could have cited the post numbers with less effort than what you expended here.

to someone who can read a report clarvoyantly the day before it's actually published. Exercise your powers.

Duplicate post.

Actually, this IS his area of expertise. He is invited to speak all over the world on JUST THIS SUBJECT.

with facts. And don't shatter the assumption that a person can only have one area of expertise, or that they can't detect BS in any other area.

Eschatology? The "fuckwittedness" of non-atheists? He's certainly not ranting about biology here, which is in fact his area of expertise.

So he's an expert because lots of people ALL OVER THE WORLD invite him to speak? You mean, like they invite Rick Warren to speak about LGBT issues? Appeal to popularity is a logical fallacy, as I assume you know.

to embarrass yourself this way.

I'm mean, google is free, so come on, there is no excuse.

I've learned that Myers is an expert at sticking rusty nails through consecrated hosts and tearing out pages of the Quran. And filming them in the trash. (A grown man doing this stuff? Really? A man with a Ph.D?) My bad. He's more the equivalent of Terry Jones than Champing.

I mean, it is your brain, you can do with it what you want.

Since you can't, I assume that there are no other "areas of expertise." Certainly the only items listed on the man's own CV are his biology degrees.

Obviously, though, he attracts loyal acolytes.

When you can see through your hate, let me know.

"What is 'this'?"

See that little squiggly thing at the end of the sentence? That means it's a question.

when you can see past your hate, we can talk.

n/t

Call it surrender if you must.

You can't support your statements with facts, and you're not even very good at personal insults.

I already stated that you can call it surrender if it makes you feel better. Why the need to call me out again? Don't answer, just let it go. You can have the win if you want it.

:hi:

I can tell from your post and having seen quite a few people get mad in my time.

Thank the gods I'm an agnostic.

:applause:

Or maybe you just don't know if he's wrong.

to express his views, but he is involved in a personal war with ALL religion, particularly Judeo-Christianity. That is no different than the actions of any other group expending its own time and energy in the same endeavors. Radical atheism, itself, has a very repressive and bloody history.

needed no modifiers to denote it.

Let it starve, its not worth it.

But then again, where I see contradiction, you see confirmation, right?


:rofl:

clearly this one's a beginner :yoiks:

Really, he should not be so surprised and apoplectic. Russell said something similar in 1914.

:thumbsup:

If you hadn't brought this over from Pharyngula, I would have. Thanks!

Except when its wrong, then God obviously changed his mind.