Harrisburg mayor asks God to balance the budget.

Pennsylvania’s capital city of Harrisburg is currently in massive debt. So much debt that some city officials want to filing for bankruptcy. But not to worry the city’s mayor, Linda Thompson has a plan. Her plan is to pray and fast for three days.

I wish this was a joke, but it isn’t. Here in the Philadelphia area it is pretty disheartening to know that the mayor of our state capital is crazy (that's my opinion). To make this point more clear, let us swap out one religious belief for another and see if the Mayor’s plan makes rational sense.

What if the mayor of a major city like Philadelphia decided that the best course of action to balance the budget involved casting a magic spell complete with chicken bones and fasting? This is essentially the plan of Harrisburg’s mayor minus the chicken bones.

Mayor Linda Thompson is an embarrassment to Democrats, to Harrisburg, and to the entire state of Pennsylvania. She should resign right after her three days of prayer and fasting doesn’t solve the budget problem on June 24th. Here is a link to the facebook page calling for her impeachment.

http://www.examiner.com/atheism-in-philadelphia/harrisburg-mayor-asks-god-to-balance-the-budget#ixzz1Q166HnfM

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And a Democrat, too. What a shame. Tell me again about the "liberal" christians that do not subscribe to the irrational aspects of religion.

:shrug:

Published: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:19 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 7:34 AM
ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News By ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News

Harrisburg City Council approved a resolution Tuesday night requesting that Mayor Linda Thompson prepare a Chapter 9 bankruptcy filing in case it rejects the state’s Act 47 plan ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/just_in_case_harrisburg_asks_m.html

the City Council and the Act 47 team over the plan, passed by a 4-3 vote. Council members Patty Kim, Kelly Summerford and President Gloria Martin-Roberts voted against the resolution ...

"Public safety is the biggest monster on the table as far as adverse impact," said Councilwoman Eugenia Smith ...

In a statement released Tuesday, city spokesman Robert Philbin said ... "The mayor thinks there are better options contained within the Act 47 recovery plan structure itself to minimize the impact on city citizens and services, while maximizing the shared economic pain" ...

Thompson has been meeting with department heads and the Act 47 team to further review the specifics of the plan before making her own recommendations, Philbin said ...

June 22. 2011 9:00AM - Last modified: June 22. 2011 9:19AM
Harrisburg readies for bankruptcy; Piccola bill being vetted today
By Jason Scott
http://centralpennbusiness.com/article/20110622/CPBJ01/110629945

:shrug:

form any opinion about all the blowhard posturing without understanding the crisis, the proposed "solutions," and the associated politics

This is the R&T forum, where we discuss issues like this. Care to join in?

trying to call attention to political intransigence

Of course, the article I link in #22 (below) does tend to support the view that she's unable to separate her private religious beliefs from her public role as an elected official

But that itself doesn't resolve the question: In the fight between the mayor and council, should one take the mayor's side or the council's?

DU being a political website, perhaps you can forgive me if I'm naturally interested in viewing such stories partly through a political lens. You, for example, seem to have a definite political agenda: that is, to discredit religion by posting any story which you think sheds a negative light on religion. I'd prefer to take a somewhat more complex view of the role of religion in society

NEW YORK (Edith Honan) - Pennsylvania's debt-ridden capital of Harrisburg has tried every form of fiscal belt-tightening, from layoffs to furloughs to filing for bankruptcy. Now, it is turning to God.

Mayor Linda Thompson said on Friday she will join religious leaders in three days of fasting and prayer to encourage "a cooperative spirit among government leaders, the business community and citizens."

"I am open about my faith and will be participating in the voluntary prayer and fast," Thompson said


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/21/harrisburg-mayor-fasts-fo_n_881623.html


But you can continue to try and hijack the discussion away from the religious component of this story if you want to, but remember, this IS the R&T forum, not GD, so we discuss the religious aspects of stories like this here. For a more detailed political discussion, moving to GD will probably yield the results you are looking for.

I can see the validity of that, but I see this more as a discussion, not an argument, although you are really not doing much discussing at all, just failed attempts to hijack.

:rofl:

Published: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 3:40 PM
Updated: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 4:47 PM
ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News By ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News

Harrisburg Mayor Linda Thompson wants the city to avoid bankruptcy in handling its debt crisis, her spokesman Robert Philbin today said in a statement.

The fiscal recovery plan the state-appointed Act 47 team introduced last week contains better options, Philbin said. Recommendations in the plan would minimize financial pain and service cuts city taxpayers would have to endure, while sharing a maximum amount of economic pain with other stakeholders, Philbin said.

Some City Council members want to keep bankruptcy on the table to help give the city leverage in negotiating terms with other stakeholders of Harrisburg’s $310 million of incinerator debt ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/harrisburg_mayor_city_should_a.html

Published: 6/17 2:15 pm
Updated: 6/17 2:18 pm

Interdenominational religious leaders from around the mid-state have called for three days of fasting and prayers to focus attention on a more, "cooperative spirit among government leaders, the business community and citizens to address challenges facing the city for the common good of all."

The group, which includes more than a dozen Christian, Jewish, and Muslim religious leaders, has called for a voluntary fast and prayers starting midnight, Tuesday, June 21 and ending at 5 PM, Friday, June 24, 2011 ...

http://www.whptv.com/news/local/story/Religious-leaders-call-for-3-day-fast-to-support/w471SlixlkestckVJk16zg.cspx

:eyes:

What has happened to this country??
We elect leaders who instead of working to find a solution to our problems, resort instead to getting on their knees and praying for god to take care of everything. We are in deep trouble....

or whether the mayor is right to support the state plan

And the mayor called for prayer and fasting to solve a financial problem. Care to join the discussion on that?

June 21, 2011
By Shannon McDonald

... Enter Mayor Linda Thompson ... She'll join at least a dozen church leaders for a liquid-only diet from Wednesday through Friday.

"This is really calling for unity among our governmental leaders for solidarity, for a reasonable and sound financial recovery plan so we can all have a prosperous city and get out city back to solvency," Thompson told ABC27 ...

http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/the-feed/item/21863-harrisburg-mayor-plans-fast-to-call-for-government-unity

:eyes:

By Associated Press, Published: June 21

HARRISBURG, Pa. — The mayor of Pennsylvania’s capital is vowing to go on a three-day fast she hopes will unite citizens and leaders in the face of a financial crisis ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/mayor-of-pa-capital-vows-3-day-fast-for-unity-in-face-of-financial-crisis/2011/06/21/AGue2HeH_story.html

:eyes:

Published: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 11:49 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 9:41 AM
CHARLES THOMPSON, The Patriot-News

As Harrisburg officials review the Act 47 plan, state Sen. Jeff Piccola is trying to get early action in the Legislature on a bill that would impose financial terms on the city ...

Piccola introduced his Senate Bill 1151 last week, calling for appointment of state and county management boards in cities in the state’s distressed-municipalities program whose officials are gridlocked over the elements of their own recovery plan ...

Piccola, R-Dauphin County, clearly wants the bill to apply to Harrisburg, where City Council has until July 23 to accept or reject the Act 47 plan.

That plan, unveiled last week, calls for layoffs and wage freezes at City Hall, a 0.8-mill property tax increase equal to a $50 increase for the average property owner, and sale or lease of the city’s parking system and incinerator ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/piccolla_pushes_bill_allowing.html

Published: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 3:33 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 4:23 PM
CHARLES THOMPSON, The Patriot-News

On a 9-5, party-line vote, the Senate Community, Economic and Recreational Development Committee passed Sen. Jeff Piccola's bill to force implementation of Harrisburg's Act 47 plan.

The committee action sets the stage for a vote on the Senate floor as early as Friday, and possible House consideration next week.

The bill would call for appointment of a state-county management board with full powers to implement Harrisburg's Act 47 plan if city officials do not accept it or reach agreement on an alternative that is acceptable to the Corbett Administration ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/piccola_bill_to_force_act_47_p.html

Published: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 12:31 PM
Updated: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 1:43 PM
ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News

The Pennsylvania League of Cities & Municipalities (PLCM) plans to issue a press statement this afternoon opposing the state takeover bill Sen. Jeffrey Piccola, R-Dauphin County, is pushing through the Senate.

The letter is being sent as the PLCM holds an annual meeting in Erie, said Harrisburg City Councilwoman Wanda Williams, who also is a member of PLCM's board of directors.
piccolaView full sizeDAN GLEITER, The Patriot-News, fileSen. Jeffrey Piccola, R-Dauphin County

Piccola introduced the legislation last week just after Harrisburg’s Act 47 team delivered its fiscal recovery plan to city officials. It would give the state the right to create three-member boards to oversee the implementation of fiscal recovery blueprints state-appointed teams create for third-class cities in the Act 47 program. It also would prevent third-class cities rejecting the plans from filing for bankruptcy ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/city_officials_from_across_the.html

By Myles Snyder - email
HARRISBURG, Pa. (WHTM) -

...

Thompson said in a statement that Piccola's bill overlooks two important elements which directly apply to Harrisburg.

"There are funding incentives in the plan, and there are funding disincentives if the plan is not accepted," she said. "If City Council fails to vote for the plan, the Mayor has 10 days to respond with a plan. My intention is to provide a timely plan that protects the health, safety and welfare of our citizens and meets our financial obligations."

Thompson said she has completed her internal review of the preliminary Act 47 plan, and has reached out to City Council and the union leaders of the city, police department, and bureau of fire to begin discussions.

She said the city administration agrees with about 75 to 80 percent of the plan.

http://www.abc27.com/story/14963517/thompson-responds-to-piccolas-bill-to-stop-harrisburg-bankruptcy

... If the city of Harrisburg — part of Piccola’s district — doesn’t do what he wants to get out of its financial predicament, Piccola insists on a state takeover of the city. It’s the same thing he tried (and failed) to do with the city school district last year.

Senate Bill 1151 is overreaching. A state takeover of a city has little precedent in this state, and it is not in the best interests of the capital city ...

http://www.pennlive.com/editorials/index.ssf/2011/06/piccolas_way_senators_threat_t.html

Published: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 8:00 AM
Updated: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 8:44 AM
By Laura Vecsey

... Piccola may not be fasting and praying with Thompson over the next few days. However, we understand that part of the reason Piccola may have the backing of his fellow state lawmakers in taking over Harrisburg is because Piccola may not get his school vouchers bill passed ...

This is the quid-pro-quo of politics, and special interests, parading as greater public good ...

With his bill that would clear the way for a state takeover of Harrisburg and other distressed third-class cities in Pennsylvania (it passed committee 9-5 yesterday and heads to the full Senate), Piccola is trying to change the rules of Act 47 midstream.

Piccola has adopted a policy of not speaking with The Patriot-News because he believes the newspaper has been unfair in its coverage of him. So, it’s tough to find out if his legislative staff is drafting the bill or whether there’s assistance from Dauphin County or their attorneys, lobbyists or consultants ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/commentary_harrisburgs_financi.html

By Chris Cekot

HARRISBURG, Pa. (WHTM) -

Gov. Tom Corbett is weighing in on legislation that would allow a takeover of Harrisburg if the city fails to implement the proposal of a state Act 47 coordinator.

Corbett said he supports the bill that would allow the state to implement the financial recovery plan and block any efforts by the city to declare bankruptcy.

Harrisburg's option to file for bankruptcy seems to be disappearing by the day. Some think it's the only way to force creditors to take a haircut. They're owed $310 million on the incinerator. There's no mention of debt forgiveness in the Act 47 plan.

"If it makes it through the legislature, would I sign it? Yes," Corbett said ...

http://www.abc27.com/story/14966462/gov-corbett-says-he-would-sign-harrisburg-take-over-bill

and did not explain why he would sign the bill ... Under the bill, Harrisburg would be barred from filing for federal bankruptcy protection if it does not follow the advice of a state task force set up to give it financial guidance. The Senate Community, Economic and Recreational Development Committee's vote was along party lines, with the Republican majority supporting it and Democrats calling it an unwarranted encroachment on the authority of Harrisburg's elected city leaders ...

June 24, 2011, 10:38AM ET
Pa. gov. would sign Harrisburg bankruptcy bill
By MARC LEVY
HARRISBURG, Pa.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9O2A2PO0.htm

Public Hearing On Financial Recovery Plan Set
POSTED: 11:51 am EDT June 13, 2011
UPDATED: 7:16 am EDT June 14, 2011

... A public hearing will be held at 5:30 p.m. on June 28 in the auditorium of John Harris High School. People who to provide testimony are encouraged to register with the plan coordinator by June 24.

All written comments on the plan should be submitted to the coordinator, Julia Novak, The Novak Consulting Group, 210 Glenmary Ave., Cincinnati, OH 45201 or Act47PlanInput@thenovakconsultinggroup.com.

The coordinator may revise the plan based on any public comments received. If the plan is revised, a final recovery plan will be filed within 10 days of the hearing.

The City Council then will have 25 days from the coordinator's hearing to act on the recovery plan ...

http://www.wgal.com/news/28219949/detail.html

...if it turns out that a huge portion of the budget was being wasted on expensive catering services. :)

Is there an obvious partisan divide? Where is the balance of power with respect to various outcomes? Who supports the state plan? What's the city council brinksmanship about? Is the legislature likely to intervene?

Take the political side of the discussion to GD. We are talking about the fact that she is looking to prayer and fasting to solve a financial problem.

the strategy seems to be merely self-serving attention-seeking

There's a predominately political and public policy issue here, so I would need useful info to decide what I think about the mayor's stance

In my view, religious language is often the language people use to discuss their foundational positions: for this reason, I would try to understand the context and exactly what position the mayor was taking

:shrug:

the man who wrote grants for the city, quit in February after filing a complaint with the ACLU. He said it was Thompson's practice of opening staff meetings with a prayer.

Clark resigned from city hall and applied for unemployment. The state denied it, and Clark appealed. There was a hearing on the matter Monday. A man who left the city for similar reasons testified.

"I believe Stover was entitled to his unemployment because he was certainly uncomfortable in the work environment," said Thompson's former Communications Director Chuck Ardo. "Her religious practices don't belong in the office."

Something that happened in Thompson's office came to light at the hearing. According to the Patriot-News, Thompson and staffers prayed for Clark while he was there, asking for him to seek forgiveness for not accepting Jesus as his savior ...

Have mayor's religious convictions crossed the line?
Wednesday, June 22, 2011 5:47 AM EST
By Chris Cekot
http://www.abc27.com/story/14951461/have-mayors-religious-convictions-crossed-the-line

as witnesses. Both said Thompson had not started meetings with prayer since the ACLU had issued its opinion. Kroboth conceded that Thompson did pray in front of Clark during the meeting following his resignation ...

Harrisburg's former grant manager contests unemployment decision, chides mayor for prayer at work
Published: Monday, June 20, 2011, 7:58 PM
Updated: Tuesday, June 21, 2011, 10:50 AM
ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/harrisburgs_former_grant_manag.html

Do that and the prayer might come true.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

It will take an act of God.

Well, if this works, and the prays and fasting really work and a pile of cash falls into her lap, I will profess my belief in God and will repent for my failure to have faith. Honest to God, I will.

any elected official (yeah, that includes you, Rick Perry) who chooses to engage in prayer to solve policy issues is a joke of the worst kind.

prayer and fasting for government policy - what an embarrassment to the founders of this nation to have such people in office at this time - and I don't care which side of the aisle they're on.

I came into this threat looking for that statement, and I was not disappointed. I can't watch the local news any more because her fearsome visage often makes an appearance.

By Myles Snyder
HARRISBURG, Pa. (WHTM) -

Dauphin County officials said the transfer of police dispatch services from Harrisburg's communications center to the county's 911 center is moving ahead on schedule ... The city is consolidating its emergency police dispatch with the county as a cost-saving measure.

http://www.abc27.com/story/14959217/911-to-begin-taking-harrisburg-police-emergency-calls-on-sunday

You have any thoughts of your own, or if you just plan to inundate us with the cut-and-pasted results of Google searches.

Maybe somebody familiar with the situation will chime in

That sure got results. It led to the largest municipal bankruptcy in American history:

In the frantic days just before Orange County declared bankruptcy because of its disastrous investment practices, top officials were told that then-Treasurer-Tax Collector Robert L. Citron relied upon a mail-order astrologer and a psychic for interest rate predictions, according to testimony before the county grand jury.

http://articles.latimes.com/1995-12-28/news/mn-18770_1_county-grand-jury

and etc.

Published: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 11:06 AM
Updated: Thursday, June 23, 2011, 1:28 PM
ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News By ERIC VERONIKIS, The Patriot-News

... Perce said there will be at least 40 to 50 people at the protests. Another atheist group, Pennsylvania Nonbelievers, which Perce also belongs to, is supporting the event. And American Atheists president David Silverman plans to attend the second protest. Perce said he also invited six area churches to participate because it is not just an event for atheists, it is for people who understand that non-separation of church and state is against the law ...

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/two_separation_of_church_and_s.html

Published: Friday, June 24, 2011, 2:22 PM
Updated: Friday, June 24, 2011, 3:23 PM

About 12 protesters showed up to a noon separation-of-church-and-state demonstration outside the Harrisburg City Government Center today ... The groups also will support a second demonstration scheduled for 4 p.m. today outside Goodwin Memorial Baptist Church, 2447 Green St., where a service ending the three-day fast and prayers is scheduled ... Several people passing by the protest told the demonstrators they are going to go to hell. Observer Stanley Gruen said the protestors are playing into Thompson’s political hand by diverting attention from the real problem – the fiscal crisis. Some of the demonstrators taunted people walking by, offering them protein bars in case they were approaching the end of the fast ...
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/few_attend_harrisburg_separati.html

The attendance at a second separation-of-church-and-state protest in Harrisburg today was much like the first: sparse.

About 12 demonstrators stood outside the Goodwin Memorial Baptist Church on Green Street as an ecumenical service ending a three-day fast and prayer Mayor Linda Thompson organized took place at 4 p.m.

Thompson spoke at the service that ended the rituals she called for to help deal with Harrisburg’s fiscal crisis. She thanked God for choosing her to lead the city ...

Religious leaders and parishioners from around the Harrisburg area participated in the fast and prayers. Roughly 40 people attended the ecumenical service.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/06/little_support_also_shown_for.html

on anyone else's religious practices and I don't expect them to infringe on mine," said Thompson. Protesters say they plan to come back to see if the Mayor's fast fixed the city's budget woes.
Protests Against Prayer at Harrisburg City Hall
Mayor Linda Thompson Wraps Up 3 Days of Prayer and Fasting
http://www.fox43.com/news/wpmt-thompson-prayer-protests,0,977647.story

Friday, June 24, 2011 5:56 PM EST
By Chris Cekot

... "I think it crosses the line the time when she declares a three-day fast and she's praying and fasting on our city time," Perce said. "You can pray in your closet. That's where it should be and you certainly have the right to pray in your own private life" ...

At a news conference promoting a church-based community service project called "Love Harrisburg", abc27 News asked Thompson to comment on her critics who say her religious convictions have crossed the line.

"Do you have any response to some people saying your recent actions are a violation of the separation of church and state?" abc27 asked. "Love Harrisburg is what we're talking about here today," Thompson replied.

abc27 News asked Thompson's spokesman if the mayor begins staff meetings with a prayer, as had been her reported practice. Bob Philbin said he's never seen that since he's been on the job.

http://www.abc27.com/story/14972535/mayor-criticized-for-aggressively-promoting-religious-beleifs

Updated: 6:51 pm, Fri Jun 24, 2011
By J.D. Mullane

... The city is so cash-strapped that, in 2007, it was forced to auction its $8 million collection of Old West memorabilia, which included an original Wells-Fargo trans-continental stagecoach and a working Model 1883 Gatling gun ...

The Harrisburg Resource Recovery Facility converts refuse to energy. Built in the early 1970s, it was always a money pit, never quite breaking even. In 2003, it was shut down for numerous violations. The Harrisburg Authority, which owns it, decided to spend millions to renovate and expand the plant, hoping to make back its investment by burning more trash. But the contractor quit and filed for bankruptcy. The Harrisburg Authority was stuck. It defaulted on its loan and left the city on the hook ...

Last winter, a citizens group called RUSH for "Return Unity and Sanity to Harrisburg" stood on the street below Thompson's office and taunted her. The mayor taunted back. Someone in the crowd tossed a sloppy snowball at the window. Local TV news cameras captured the startled mayor as the snowball hit.

Clergy from Jewish, Christian and Muslim houses of worship implored the mid-state region to be calm, and to fast and pray between Wednesday and Friday ...

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/local/courier_times_news/news_columnists/god-and-man-in-harrisburg/article_3bde27a3-a14d-572c-8139-5335c4faf7de.html

I am sure the Japanese wouldn't mind him sending them the calculations which they could plug into their new super computer...um, that is if, the God thing, doesn't work out.

years ago, and the city guaranteed the debt. Then the Authority defaulted -- so the city is stuck with the bill and a slew of lawsuits

She naturally doesn't want to end all municipal services to pay the debt, so she's looking at the state plan that is likely to kick in. Meanwhile, a big chunk of the city council wants to play a brinksmanship game, threatening to default, but an actual default would destroy the city's ability to issue bonds. Meanwhile the Rs in the state legislature are going for broke on this, hoping to embarrass her by embarrassing Harrisburg

She's the first woman and first black to be mayor of Harrisburg; she's only been in office since early 2010, so this really wasn't a problem she created

The situation seems to be ugly sometimes: she's had stuff thrown at her

Headlines make it sound like she's praying for a balanced budget, but the quotes from her I've seen suggest she may simply be trying to call attention to the need for calm and cooperation

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

And atheists referring to people that pray as crazy are flatly prejudiced. And you wonder why atheists are having trouble being accepted.