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Is it discrimination to NOT hire someone because they hold a particular religious belief?

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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:26 AM
Original message
Is it discrimination to NOT hire someone because they hold a particular religious belief?
Edited on Fri Sep-23-11 10:26 AM by cleanhippie
I mean, if I am interviewing people for a job, is it ok for me to NOT hire the evangelical christian, or the Muslim, or the Hindu, because they do not share my views on religion?





If you say that it IS, in fact, discrimination, then I agree with you 100%.





















And if it is discrimination, then WHY are faith-based organizations allowed to NOT hire someone because the applicant does not share their religious views?

Story follows...

Secular Coalition to White House: Stop Ignoring Faith-Based Employment Discrimination
Thu, 07/28/2011 - 12:36

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Responding to recent comments by President Barack Obama and a top White House official, the Secular Coalition for America today urged the Obama administration to stop ignoring faith-based and taxpayer-funded employment discrimination and recommit to the president’s 2008 campaign promise to overturn the Bush-era policy that allows such discrimination to occur.

Under current guidelines established by a 2002 executive order by President George W. Bush, religious organizations that receive federal funding to engage in community services are allowed to discriminate on the basis of religion when hiring or employing staff, even if the individual’s job is not related to core religious functions.

http://www.secular.org/content/secular-coalition-white-house-stop-ignoring-faith-based-employment-discrimination
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. We should stop all that faith-based shit. nt
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. Just think. The Pope could be the president of American Atheists.
Oh scratch that, he doesn't have a green card.
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Iggo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. I'd vote for him. (n/t)
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. The President probably has little say in the matter. It's between Congress
and the Courts. It's a Separation issue.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Is one discrimination while the other is not?
Edited on Fri Sep-23-11 10:45 AM by cleanhippie
Thats all thats being asked here, bum. Thats all that being asked. Care to answer the question?


And it IS up to the President, as its an EXECUTIVE ORDER that being questioned here.

Sheesh, man, whats up with the lack of reading comprehension?


But thats irrelevant. Is it discrimination or not?
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Still subject to judicial review. And I believe that has already occurred.
But if not, I can't wait to go to work for American Atheists.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Is one discrimination while the other is not?
Its a simple question. Yes or no will suffice.
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humblebum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Definitely discrimination, but not all discrimination is illegal. Laws are
funny that way. Pull the funding from groups like World Vision and see how many starve and go without medical care.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Great, thanks for your answer.
Thats all I wanted to know.
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes it is discrimination but they are letting freedom of religion trump discrimination
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. And that's wrong.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. IMO it's discrimination
hence, also decision by an employer not to hire a rastafarian who would not cut his locks is discrimination.

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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. What if were for safety reasons?
What if the job was working around chains, belts and pulleys, and the employer required all employees to have short hair to maximize safety?

If the rastafarian refused to cut his hair and the employer refused to hire him on THAT reason alone, is it discrimination?
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. The case
was discussed on this forum and the Rastafarian said that he had been saying that he can tie his hear and cover it for protective reasons of health and safety, but will not cut it. That was not enough for the employer, so the rastafarian sued and won.
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Wrong. Those are two different reasons.
CHs OP was talking about not hiring someone specifically because of their religion, and no other reason.

The case you reference was about a prospective employee who stated that he would not adhere to the dress code of the workplace.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. OK
What kind of belief system discriminates people according to their dread lock hair style? Do you yourself support any form of discrimination against dread locks?

I and I now wanna smoke some herb and reason. :smoke:
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darkstar3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. As I said in the other thread,
dress codes are put in place by businesses for good reason. Sometimes it's about safety, and sometimes it's about ensuring that the clientele isn't offended, and sometimes it may be both of those or even other reasons. The bottom line is that they are not chosen arbitrarily, and stating in an interview that you will refuse to comply with the company dress code is pretty much like a sign that says "don't hire me." It doesn't matter if your reasoning is religious or not, the employer is going to go with an equally qualified or better candidate who will comply with the dress code, and it's as simple as that.

Finally, you and everyone else involved in the debate would do well to remember that the entire process of choosing one person over others is discrimination from top to bottom.
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tama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I can relate
to what you say and respect that opinion. But I must also speak my heart. I do not confess to the religiouss dogma of rastafarianism but to me dancing good reggae with sensimilla can be a religiouss experience and I also carry beautifull dread locks on my head. Because of my hair style I've been couple times denied entrance to a bar or night club, and that does not feel good, it feels like discrimination.

And what you finally say touches my heart deeply, because it makes me think of love and commitment between a man and a woman, and then it makes me think about the woman I love. And I cannot deny that in its way, in some regards, it is a discrimination process. At least for those of us, who can give all of their love to just one woman (at time) - for reasons often not unrelated to the fact that women can be bit jealous and possessive - and even more likable because of that. <3
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
13. What if I don't hire you just because I don't like you?
Hypothetically, of course.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That would explain your unemployment.
Hypothetically, of course.
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Another hypothesis proven to be wrong.
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cleanhippie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Yeah, sure it is.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. If the reason you don't like him is because of...
...his race, religion, age, gender or ethnicity, it is illegal.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. If your business/organization is religious
You can refuse to hire someone for any reason you want--including the fact that you don't approve of their religious lifestyle. If your business is secular you have to obey all anti-discrimination laws. It's just another example of religious privilege in our society, subsidized by the taxpayers no less.
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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-24-11 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. Not true, if the business is open to the public, then it must follow non-discrimination laws...
whether it is religious or not, the only organizations exempt from this are member's only organizations(Men's clubs are examples) and churches. For example, a local Catholic Church cannot be forced to hire a Presbyterian minister, however, Catholic Charities cannot discriminate against Presbyterians that want to work for them.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
23. Religious discrimination at work is illegal and ought to be.
The only exceptions are actual religious organizations because of the free exercise clause. I agree that the business and charitable aspects of religious organizations should not be able to discriminate, but they can.
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