U.S. MOTTO INACCURATE: AMERICAN ATHEISTS DO NOT TRUST IN GOD

"Why Atheists Should Care About "In God We Trust"

There are many reasons atheists and other secular Americans should care about this motto. Here are a few:
Roughly 16% of the U.S. population does not trust in any sort of god. The motto is not accurate.
We had a perfectly good national motto before 1956 that served us well.
Our government is not supposed to promote religious belief.
The arguments advanced by those who want the "god" motto are seriously flawed.
"In god we trust" is blatantly exclusionary, communicating to those of us who do not believe in any sort of god that we are somehow not a part of this country.
"In god we trust" provides a context within which anti-atheist bigotry may be mistaken for patriotism.

http://www.atheistrev.com/2011/11/us-motto-inaccurate-american-atheists.html

Based on the behavior of many self-described "christians" in this country, they don't put much stock in the saying either.

go into re-hab! Remember Ted Haggard, anyone?

praying to their God instead of trusting him/her to do what they need?

They must not trust God very much.

"cultural" theists. They say they believe, because in American it's easier than admitting to not believing. Also, because they celebrate "religious" holidays which are more "cultural" holidays (Christmas and Easter), they may feel an obligation to say they're of a certain religion.

In my extended family, people are either quite religious, (actively participating in their various churches of choice) or not religious at all.

But I think my family is the exception.

The Christianization of our gov't is both offensive and unhealthy.

I doubt we could get a roomful of believers to agree on which God we supposedly believe in.

that number would be a solid 100%.

I doubt there's any Muslim Republican politicians, there may be a few Jewish Republican ones in lesser offices, (State Reps in NY?)...or somewhere else.

But to get elected as a Republican to Congress, one has to claim Christianity.

Is he loving and forgiving? Is he a jealous and wrathy? Is he merely the Creator and otherwise fairly disinterested in what goes on down here? Is he seemingly benign but just biding his time to open a can of whup-ass on the sinners in the afterlife? None of the above? It all depends on which believer you ask.

No need for that if you trust in God.

If Xians really trusted in God why are they murdering doctors and terrorizing women and GLBTs?

Fuck them. I hate religion.

... E PLURIBUS UNUM

"trust in God". Sadly they're outweighed by those who think nothing of pushing their religion on everybody.

For example, do they wear seat belts, or just trust in God?

Then when they survive an accident they praise god. :eyes:

If they did, they would not need a Federal reserve or money at all. They would simply be as the lilies of the field toiling not and letting Jehovah provide.

Really? Is there something unconstitutional about the government promoting religious belief? I am not advocating the government promote any particular religion, but simply stating there is no restrictions in our laws to do so. In fact the US has a long history of promoting religious belief.

Don't atheist's have better things to whine about than a motto on our coins?

People's beliefs should not be a matter for government intrusion.

Actually, I don't care about messages on coins; or people singing 'God Save the Queen'; or prayers at a ceremonial event. These are just symbols. What I'm worried about is governments treating atheists as inferior citizens (much more of a problem in the USA than UK, despite the fact that we don't have official church-state separation and you do); and about the Religious Right in general, and the political 'pro-life' movement in particular.

I am on your side. Let me know when that starts to happen.

Amendment One:FFS, it's in the first sentence!

printing "In God We Trust" on our coins is hardly the same thing. Let me know when we start printing "in Christ we trust" or "in Budda we trust", then we have a problem.

"In God we Trust" is a direct reference to the Abrahamic god. It was contrived by Christians to stand in opposition to those "godless commies" we didn't like.

Are you really going to sit there and deny this fact?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_God_We_Trust

And yes it is was meant as a reference to the Abrahamic God since first used (in 1864). So what?

In today's culture of ethnic and religious diversity it would be interpreted in many different ways.

Are you seriously making the argument that because money has the phrase "In God we Trust", non-believers are excluded from the culture?

I don't believe in Santa Claus yet I manage to struggle through the holiday season without feeling excluded.

:shrug:

associated with?

It must be a lonely life.

"In God We Trust" necessarily excludes those who don't trust in gods.

You'll get it eventually.

why not just answer the question?

Maybe more specifically our government (though as a representative of all). That makes it a violation of the 1st Amendment, btw.

What's your point? You're not claiming some bullshit that "we" is just referencing those that do believe in god so it isn't exclusionary, are you? Because that, my friend, is weak sauce.

"In God We Trust" excludes you from something. No where are government services required to meet the whim and fancy of every individual or to provide completely neutral national icons or motto's. "In God we Trust" has already been deemed as Constitutional. If you and like minded folks want to continue the fight to remove the National motto be my guest. I really do wonder why such a trivial thing given all the problem we face provide so much energy to a few.

Based on your comments you believe you are excluded from our shared culture and society or some other activity in some way. All I'm asking is in what way are you excluded from participation in any activity by the existence of those four words on coinage? Why do you avoid answering? Seems to me your complaint about the words is nothing more than a disagreement with the words and you are not excluded in any way from going about your daily life.

By your reasoning, it should be the exact same as the current "God," which we both know is short for Yahweh/Jehovah/Christ. No one would be excluded from anything and it wouldn't be a governmental endorsement of any particular religion.

of God. I tend to think in today's culture God has taken on a boarder meaning. But frankly I am not sure what your point is. If Baal happened to be the name of God prevalent in the culture, I don't think I would walk around saying I am excluded from living my life as I see fit.

If it's that incidental, say that you trust in Baal.

Are you making the argument that having a coin in your pocket that says "In God We Trust", somehow confirms you personally believe that?

You've already argued that the motto might as well be "In Baal we Trust" and you have no problem with that. If it were the official motto of your country, it'd be already saying that you trust in Baal, so why are you so resistant to saying that you trust in Baal?

my personal affirmation of a belief and using a currency that has a motto stamped on it. If you think I believe in Baal because I have currency in my pocket that states that, you have the intellectual capacity of a 5 year old.

In my view this is akin to me believing you celebrate Kwanzaa because you received a letter with a Kwanzaa stamp on it?

You've already said that you'd be fine with the motto (included on our currency) reading "In Baal We Trust," so the question is whether you consider yourself as being represented by the "We" whom supposedly trust in Baal.

If you don't trust in Baal, why would you accept the official motto of your country saying that its citizenry (of which you are a part) trusts in Baal?

If I was a citizen of a country that stamped "In Baal we Trust" on it's currency, I would not lose a minutes sleep. I would still be part of the countries culture and society. I would still participate in every way I wanted going about my business.

Would I like it? Not really. Would I feel excluded from the public square? No. I know what I beleive and why I beleive, so what a coins says on it is simply trival.

Interesting.

Your entire response is justification for why you wouldn't mind being excluded from "we."

I am simply not excluded. If I am a citizen I am part of "we". My participation as part of "we" is not dictated by or related to words on a coin.

This, remember, is the official motto of the country in which you live.

Man you are getting desperate.

In case this is not evident, the motto may represent the country in some way but that does not mean it represents me. I have a choice in this.

not matter how ridiculous it is.

"We don't believe in god" you'd be fine with that? Nobody would have a problem? If you would step away from your privilege for just a minute, you might understand.

It was "e pluribus unum" on our coins and NO "under god" in our pledge until the 50s and, in our fear-induced state, we felt we needed to differentiate ourselves from the godless commies that we added them. If that doesn't tell you that those exclude me , purposefully, then there isn't probably much that you will get on this issue.

as long as it is usable. I happen to think it's a fine National motto, but would not lose a moments sleep if it was removed.

What I am trying to understand is the angst and passion over something so trivial. And why anyone would feel excluded.


BTW "In God We Trust" has appeared on coins since 1864.

because it fits with your world view and includes you in "we." If you were part of a group excluded very routinely, you might think differently.

My bad on the coins. It was not adopted as the official motto until the McCarthy induced fever against the godless at which point it showed up on paper money, too.

difference to me.

From what what are you excluded routinely? As a routine occurrence it should be easy to answer.

Please enlighten me.

I am routinely excluded by my government from what the government claims our society is. Apparently, we are a society that trusts in god and is a nation under god. This violation of the first amendment makes it clear to those that believe in god that THEY are part of this country and I am not. This clearly has an impact as shown in surveys recently posted here that show us at the bottom of minorities that people would vote for--even among democrats. Many of us, me included, have to keep our atheism in the closet for fear of repercussions--and I live in Wisconsin where things are much better than the bible belt.

And stop with the "makes no difference to me." If it made no difference to you, why not let those that are offended by it fight for removal? Do you take the same approach to native americans that want mascots removed from sports teams?

The people who chastise us for our displeasure over these things (state endorsements of religion supported by our tax dollars) are the ones who screech loudest over any attempt to have them removed. They claim they're "no big deal" and insist we're big babies for being upset over them, yet tantrum and even threaten us with death if we challenge them. "No big deal" indeed.

You're too funny

Also you misunderstand what I am saying. Feel free to object to the use of the National motto on US currency, but let's not fabricate drama and outrage over a nonsensical belief that atheists are excluded from engaging in life because they disagree with that motto.

Atheists frequently receive extreme reactions to the most minor challenges to religious beliefs and privilege. Billboards are met with demands they be taken down, vandalism and death threats. Legal challenges to taxpayer-funded religious displays on public property also result in rabid reactions including death threats. We're told we're making a big deal out of nothing whenever we speak out against such things, but the vehement reactions we get prove such things really aren't "nothing". The people who put them in place obviously are willing to do anything to maintain their undeserved and unearned privilege.

our currency would impact your concerns, or people's view of atheists. If anything your success would make people less inclined to be your advocate.

Way to move into "stop demanding your rights because you are just going to piss people off." Interesting that so much of what you say is taken right out of the books of those that took rights from gays and blacks and so many others.

Maybe, just maybe, you could understand that if we stopped saying as a government that only the godless are worth noting, we might see a general shift in attitude that atheists are the least trusted group in the country.

You going to answer my question about native american mascots yet? Interested to see how you treat that minority.

Non-believers are necessarily excluded from "we."

How does that impact your life?

Why is it so important to you?

Why are your undies in a bunch because people feel it is unconstitutional?

as to why it is important to me. You have dismissed my views and concerns as unimportant (not unlike many minorities in this country have been dismissed, btw).

Are you going to answer the question as to why YOU think it is so important we keep it? If it's not a big deal, why not take it off the money. Do you fight for schools to keep Native American mascots even though a minority says it offends them?

why this is important to you or how you are excluded from any activities.

Your obtuseness is just to dense to be for real.

evidence of how atheists are excluded from doing anything they want because of the national motto stamped on a coin.

It's not my claim.I think it's trivial. Others don't.

Studies are pretty clear that 10-15% of people are atheists/agnostics in this country. Studies are also pretty clear that there is a positive correlation between high levels of education and being an atheist (I'm not claiming one causes the other here, just that as you get to those with college and above degrees you are much higher than 10-15%).

If that is the case, why is it that there is only ONE national politician that identifies as an atheist? All the others are god-fearing believers. That is damn near a statistical anomaly given the high level of education much less just the national average (at least 6 people in Congress should be atheists at the least). The only thing these stupid mottos on our coins and in our pledge do is reinforce the idea that if you are going to be a politician, you better play the praise-Jeebus game.

Studies are pretty clear that 10-15% of people are atheists/agnostics in this country.

We are talking about atheists not agnostics. The percent of self identified atheists make up something like 1% to maybe 5% depending on what poll you would like to believe. http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

There may be a positive correlation between higher education and atheists. What's not clear is how does that (if true) relate to the odds of electing an atheist? My guess is one has nothing to do with the other. But if you have data supporting that postion feel free to convince me otherwise.

If that is the case, why is it that there is only ONE national politician that identifies as an atheist?

Maybe those that are attracted to atheism, have a set of skills not particularly suited for politics. Maybe the number of atheist are statically insignificant so drawing conclusions about how many atheist should be distributed in a particular vocation is risky. Maybe, the voting population simply thinks someone that holds to atheism is not suited to represent them.


on Edit

You are still avoiding my question.

I have a fear of babies and feel this US coin is blatantly exclusionary.

You really don't see how that "In God We Trust" excludes atheists? You don't have ANY inkling that perhaps it gets a little old to not believe in god yet have our government shove it down our throat EVERY DAY?

How about you step outside of your privilege for a minute or two and consider things. FFS

think George Washington was just a nasty old slave owner. Shouldn't we consider that they may feel uncomfortable looking at him every time they pick up a quarter.

Should we completely be neutral, ignoring your culture and history?

Believing the government shoves God down our throats EVERY DAY is a pretty extreme POV. I didn't consider the poster might be joking.

You don't think's it's everyday? I spend money everyday. I teach high school and we, by state law (i.e. the government), have to do the Pledge every day so I hear "under god" EVERY DAY. Those are but two examples.

IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE SHOUTING ALL THE TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"In other words, “In God We Trust” is a legacy of founders, but not the founders of the nation. As the official national motto, it is a legacy of the founders of modern American conservatism—a legacy reaffirmed by the current Congress."

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/atw.php?id=604


Note from the OP of this thread: I merely copied and pasted the title of the article I quoted in the OP. I apologize for the all capital letters. My allegiance to precise quotes of titles offended some because of the capital letters, that's unfortunate people were offended. It won't happen again!