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Fluff: Name the eight Christian feasts that match the eight Celtic Sabbats

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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 08:57 PM
Original message
Fluff: Name the eight Christian feasts that match the eight Celtic Sabbats
It is widely known that the Christian feast of All Saints coincides with, and shares many symbolic elements to, the Celtic feast of Samhain. What is not so widely known is that the other seven Celtic feasts -- Yule, Imbolc, Ostara, Beltain, Litha, Lughnasadh and Mabon are the names I learned -- also have major Christian feasts associated with them, and that these feasts also share many of their symbolic elements with the old pagan season. Many of these feasts have fallen in to disuse. Can you name them all?

(A penalty will be given for those who equate Easter and Ostara. While that works, there is a different, more "paganish" Christian holy day that better reflects the elements of Ostara. That is the one I have in mind.)
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jeff30997 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Which one is Fitzmas ?
:)
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oregonindy Donating Member (790 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. LOL
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. With luck, Samhain
We can honor the dead and light jack-o-lanterns to guide the path of political careers moving permanently to the Summerland.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ok, I give up, now tell me...
PPPPPPlease?
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You have to laugh. At ourselves. We've been through so much. So
if we laugh at Fitzmas - or Al Franken talking about executions.. it is because we have had our faces in so much mud - held down by neocons and bully tactics.. that we laugh at the dark. Or we laugh in the fact of darkness. And at our own human folly in the face of darkness.

I think at this point - Fitmaz is self-effacing...no?
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oregonindy Donating Member (790 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. should be able to find em here
and lots more

http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/

The POCM web site introduces you to the mainstream modern scholarship about Christianity's origins in ancient Pagan religion.

You already know Christmas trees and Easter eggs were originally Pagan, and you probably know the traditional mid-winter and spring timing of the two holidays was Pagan too. Mildly interesting. Not what you'll find here.

What you'll discover here is that Christianity inherited everything from the Pagans. The core of Christianity -- the worship of a dying Godman who is resurrected, ascends into heaven and brings salvation to mankind -- was also the core of a number of ancient Pagan religions that began in the Near East two thousand years before Jesus.

Christian theology borrowed more than the archaic myth of the dying-resurrected Godman. Initiation by baptism, communion with the God through a holy meal that represented the flesh of the dead God, the Holy Spirit, monotheism, and immortality of the soul were all core beliefs of many ancient faiths. They were simply part of ancient Mediterranean culture.

Christianity also borrowed elements of Jesus' mythology: the virgin birth, the miracles (including turning water into wine, walking on water, and especially healing the sick) were all common elements of pre-Christian Pagan religions. Mithras had 'em. So did Dionysus, Attis, Osiris, and Orpheus. And more. And they had them centuries before Christianity was a twinkle in Saint Paul's eye.
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Dissent Is Patriotic Donating Member (793 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Great, I'll look it up later...
but I love playing the please tell me game. I'm a little sister, what can I say...so please, please tell me what they are.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. You got me reading.
I can't answer your question yet, but you've got me reading!
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm a Lughnasadh baby, give or take a day.
Which, with my Celtic lineage, is kinda cool. :)
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Ah, but what is the Christian equivalent to Lughnasadh?
It is actually the most minor of the major feasts, and relocated centuries ago to match the consecration date of an important Roman church.

A common alternate name for Lughnasadh can be found on the calendar of the Church of England. In the CoE, the feast that falls on Lughnasadh is a day to bless loaves of bread. There is a very major Christian saint associated with loaves of bread, which are still blessed on the saint's relocated feast day even though the day now falls far away from any traditional bread-making day.

Certainly that should help :think:
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Lammas! Thank you! I looked it up & learned a lot.
That was fun! :)
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Here are some... my liturgical calendar is at work...
Cross-quarer days:

Imbolg -- Candlemas
Beltaine -- some aspects of Easter, May Day (Lady Day)
Lughnasa --Feragosto (all Italy shuts down for two weeks in August), centered on the Feast of the Assumption (15 August)
Samhain -- All Saints

And the Quarter days:

Midsummer -- Feast of St. John the Baptist (24 Jun. is a provincial holiday in Quebec.)
Fall Equinox -- got me... September is Ordinary Time, and there isn't much feast-wise in the month)
Winter Solstice -- Christmas
Spring Equinox -- Easter

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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Fall Equinox (Mabon)
corresponds more or less with Michaelmas, Sept. 29.
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salvorhardin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-26-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Mabon == Feast of Michaelmas
Ostara == Feast of St. Joseph the Worker
Yule == Feast of the Magi
Imbolc == Feast of St. Brigid

Forgotten the rest... :-)
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-27-05 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. And the answers are...
Edited on Thu Oct-27-05 10:09 PM by TechBear_Seattle
Yule <--> Christmas
The birthday of the Sun, the birthday of the Son. Mind you, though, that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke are pretty clear that Jesus was born "when the sheep were in the fields", ie in the spring. Not mid-winter.

Imbolc <--> Candlemas
The Christian feast actually celebrates the purification of Mary after the birth of Jesus. Jewish law states that a woman is "unclean" for 7 days and may not touch any sacred thing or enter in to any sacred place for another 33 days after that (Leviticus 12:2-4.) Not coincidentally, February 2 is 40 days after Christmas and so marks the time when Mary was "purified."

The common English name of the feast, Candlemas, comes from the curious custom in the Roman Catholic Church where all of the candles to be used during the next year are sanctified. EACH AND EVERY FRIGGIN CANDLE DIPPED IN HOLY WATER THEN BRIEFLY LIT. In a large church that used many candles, this blessing service took hours. "Coincidentally," Imbolc was celebrated in ancient Ireland by torchlit processions to the sea. (In Latin, sea is mare, and there are a great many puns made in early and medieval Christendom between mare and Maria.)

Spring Equinox <--> Feast of the Annunciation (I said it wasn't Easter!)
The Annunciation was when the archangel Gabriel told Mary that she was to conceive. Unsurprisingly, it occurs on March 25, nine months before Christmas. Just as unsurprisingly, Celtic and related festivals for the Spring Equinox includes many of the same symbols, for the same reasons.

Beltain <--> Ss. Philip and James
According to very early Christian legend, the apostles all left their wives and families to follow Jesus and devote their lives to his teachings. All, that is, except two, Philip and James. According to Clement of Alexandria, a very influencial bishop of the early church whose letters were considered for inclusion in the New Testament, Philip did his missionary work with his several of his children in tow; he was buried at Hieropolis with two of his daughters. James became the leader of the Jesus movement after the crucifixion and was reputed to have had a family of his own.

This is is as close, really, as Christian tradition gets to the celebration of nature's fecundity that is Beltain: two men who loved their families too much to devote themselves completely to God. It is interesting to note, however, that the May 3 feast of Ss. Philip and James was a traditionally good time for barren women to try and conceive. Churches were traditionally decorated with spring flowers on this day, and bonfire ceremonies held at night to "bless the cattle" against disease, echoing earlier pagan traditions.

Closely tied to Beltain in Germanic countries (including England, thanks to centuries of Saxon, Angle and Danish invasions) is Walpurgisnacht, or the Eve of St. Walburga. Walburga was born in the English kingdom of Wessex in 710, the daughter of St. Prince Richard of Wessex and the niece of St. Boniface. She became a nun in Heidenheim (in the state of Baden-Wurttemberg, Germany) much noted for her purity. Although she died on February 25, 779, her feast day was set at the day she was declared a saint, May 1. Her cult was spread throughout Europe by the Saxons and Vikings, and her feast day adopted many of the customs and practices tied to the pre-Christian Scandanavian version of Beltain. In Sweden still, it is the custom on the night of April 30 for young people to gather greens and decorate people's houses, with the expectation that they would be paid for their efforts with eggs. How pagan is that?

Summer Solstice <--> The Nativity of St. John the Baptist
The birth of St. John at the summer solstice curiously parallels some Celtic and Nordic traditions which tell of two brothers, one who brings darkness and one who brings light, both honored in their own season. There is evidence that Jesus' followers and John's follwers were opposing factions at one time (forget the rest of The Davinci Code, it's mostly a bunch of hooey), so perhaps placing John's birthday at the time of the birth of the Darkness Bringer isn't entirely an accident; as the Gospel of St. John (no relation) has the Baptist say about Jesus, "He must increase, but I must decrease. (John 3:30)" It is also interesting to note that John is one of only two saints to have a feast on the day he was born (the other is Mary.)

The Nativity of St. John is also very odd in that most of the observances of the feast are held on the night before, St. John's Eve. Throughout Christian Europe, great feasts are held and bonfires lit, just as their pre-Christian ancestors marked the summer solstice with feasts and bonfires.

Lughnasadh <--> St. Joseph
In early calendars of Christian Western Europe, the Feast of St. Joseph occured on August 2. In the 6th century, the feast was moved to March 19 to commemorate the consecration of a large church in Rome dedicated to Joseph (and/or to celebrate the fighting off of Vandal invaders, attributed to the intercession of St. Joseph; I've seen both stories.) An early custom of blessing the first harvested grain on this feast day was retained with the move: it is still customary in many churches to bless loaves of bread on March 19 and give them to the poor. In England, this ceremony was kept at the beginning of August to become Lammas, ie "loaf mass."

Lughasadh, "the assembly of the sun god Lugh", marked the beginning of a harvest season that would continue well in to October. In most region, the grain -- typically the first crop planted in the spring -- was the first crop to be harvested. The grain cut with the first sickle swipe through the field would be made in to a loaf of bread to be brought to an annual assembly of Gaulish chieftans that would take place around early August (the Gauls are closely related to the Celts.)

Autumn Equinox <--> St. Michael the Archangel (Michaelmas)
Michaelmas was a very important day in the medieval church, as law courts and schools opened on this day for the autumn - winter session. In pre-Christian cultures around Europe, the autumn equinox was observed likewise, with chieftans and kings holding special "open courts" where people could petition for assistance. As far as ceremonies, both Christian and non-Christian celebrated the harvest, with sanctuaries and sacred spaces decorated with sheaves of wheat, baskets of fruit and other signs of bounty.

Samhain <--> All Saints
All Saints was originally called "The Feast of The Dead In Christ" and was celebrated on the Sunday after Easter. It was latter moved to November 1, supposedly so that the pilgrims to came to Rome could be fed from the harvest rather than from dwindling spring stocks of food. That it now coincided almost exactly with the Celtic New Year, when the spirits of the dead walked the earth from sunset to sunrise, was entirely accidental. Because All Saints honored only holy Christians who were assured resurrection, it became custom (and latter official custom) to pray for the souls of everyone else on the next day, which came to be known as All Souls.
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